I had created a thread about this in the actual Pugilist section of the site but seeing as there's only been a single post there since April 22, 2011, I'm going to have to assume they don't really check that part of the forums as much.
I'm making this thread with the intent of discussion and providing feedback based on the information we have for the Pugilist class and Monk job.
I'll start this off by saying no we don't have enough information to really say whether these changes will truly be good or bad. What we can do with the information we have though is speculate and come to conclusions of different scenarios. This is not a QQ thread or a ragequit thread. I'm simply voicing my opinions based on what information we have and allowing others to do the same.
Personally, I'm slightly worried with the proposed changes. Currently it is a bit difficult for Pugilists to keep their MP up through long fights even with Featherfoot evade MP. Now we have more abilities being introduced which continuously drain our MP.
Whether or not this is a good or bad thing hinges solely upon a Pugilist/Monk's ability to sustain their MP through a long fight. We now have Pgl Ability 4, Pgl WS 8, Con Ability 2 and Thm Magic 2 to help with this. If it is possible for a Pugilist/Monk to sustain their MP while using their skills and abilities that drain MP, these changes will be perfectly fine and the class will be quite viable in damage roles. However, if the above skills and abilities are not sufficient for Pugilist/Monk's MP needs, then we have a bit of a problem.
With the proposed changes, when a Pugilist or Monk runs out of MP they then potentially lose a good chunk of their damage potential. How much they lose is yet to be seen. However this means that they must then either attempt to generate more MP than they're spending or they must disengage from battle to regenerate MP. Again this is all reliant upon how well they can sustain their MP, especially through long fights.
So those are most of my thoughts on the subject. Please feel free to share your own below, though I ask that we at least try to keep it civil (hard, I know).
Pugilist/Monk Changes Discussion and Feedback
Printable View
-
11-19-2011, 03:06 AMArcellPugilist/Monk Changes Discussion and Feedback
-
11-19-2011, 03:19 AMnormalforce
Just for reference, as I don't have all of them memorized yet...
PUG Abl. 4 - Increases evasion and restores MP when an attack is evaded. Effect fades upon evading an attack or after a certain period of time elapses.
∟PGL WS 8 (Ex) - Melee attack. Chance to absorb MP when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: PGL WS 5, Bonus: Chance to increase Absorb MP effect.
CON Abl. 2 - Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP.
THM Mag. 2 - Restores MP in proportion to damage sustained. Casts cannot be interrupted while effect is active.
I want to say Featherfoot restores around 20-40 mp if I evade an attack while its up but I just can't recall. Not sure how much Featherfoot II restores. -
11-19-2011, 03:55 AMArcell
Well if they're going to move it here anyway, might as well just lock or delete one of them >.>
The entire point of making it was because they don't check this section lol. -
11-19-2011, 04:43 AMTypeZYou just need to think or research before u post stuff like this... Ever heard of mp pot? This post is so irrelevant -_-Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcell
-
11-19-2011, 04:48 AMBluetaroYou say this as if classes should be balanced around chugging ethers to sustain itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeZ
-
11-19-2011, 05:06 AMArcellEthers? Really? Lol. Yeah, because 50 mp every once in a while is going to really sustain Pugilists and Monks. Maybe YOU should think or research before you post stuff like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeZ
-
11-19-2011, 05:46 AMKRose
If you're talking about that attack "Stance" we get, it's hard to tell at this point because we don't know exactly how much MP it consumes. At the same time, they're getting a weaponskill with a chance to absorb MP but the fact that it's only a chance and that it's absorb lowers it's usefulness. The THM M.Ability[2] has the same problem Featherfoot does, you kind of have to be the target in order to regain MP in that way.
I'm personally not terribly worried. We have no idea what the 11 traits are that will probably support this system of consuming MP. -
11-19-2011, 06:50 AMyukikaze_yanagi
well, mp management would become a focus point, however.. we got brd with mp regens, so on party there's no issue. while solo, we should see new abilities first
-
11-21-2011, 02:36 AMAlise
I m PGL hardcore plan, and I really dislike this. I made a complain on the changing in general forum tho, because I see how rare people looking in this section.
-
11-21-2011, 03:52 PMKRose
I mean, Pugilist was the first class I played because I liked the concept they posted. It's a lot different now than it was at launch and to an extent it's kind of scary to see how we're going this MP Consumption -> Damage route but it's hard to put a critical eye on it until we actually see how it plays out. For instance:
Let's say the stances consume MP over time and not per hit. Do they only consume MP while active/engaged or do they start consuming MP per tic as soon as you activate it?
What if they consume MP per hit? Does it only consume MP during auto-attack rounds or does it consume MP for Light Strike/Pummel/Flurry as well?
Let's say I use the offensive stance. Does the attack bonus apply during my weaponskills?
There are too many variables about the actual stances themselves that we don't know to be critical about them. Plus at the moment, our damage output is far from terrible. So even if these stances can only be used for limited periods of time because of the amount of MP they consume, it isn't like it'll break Pugilist/Monk. The only time I even come close to running out of MP at the moment is fighting Ifrit and screwing up so I have to toss a cure. If anything, this'll be an issue for lower Pugilists if these stances are like 30 as MP Management is harder at lower levels but I still can't see this being an issue at 50. Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic or something. -
11-21-2011, 04:09 PMRentahamster
Thank you mods, for moving this thread to the proper forum. As for the PGL changes, I'm liking what I see so far. It gives PGL a different playstyle than the other classes, and that increases variety.
-
11-21-2011, 04:46 PMViridianaLight Strike/Pummel/Flurry will no longer exist as of 1.20, so that question can be definitively answered. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by KRose
-
11-21-2011, 04:52 PMKRose
Oh crap, really? I saw that they weren't listed but I thought that was because they weren't really learned at an actual level... definitely wouldn't be a fan of losing those.
-
11-21-2011, 04:55 PMRentahamsterWell, we don't know that with 100% certainty yet, since there's the possibility that the devs don't consider those 0AP moves as "real abilities" per se. Their absence from the class change list doesn't bode well for their existence, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by KRose
-
11-21-2011, 05:04 PMKRoseThat's kind of a scary thought. I wonder if they'll state if they'll still be in-game before we log into 1.20 and suddenly find them missing =xQuote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
-
11-21-2011, 08:31 PMZenakuThey are fixing both ALC and cooking so i don't see why they could not make pots that give 200+ mp or even a type of pot that give mp overtime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcell
-
11-21-2011, 08:53 PMKRoseI think it's more the concept of potentially needing ethers for longer fights where as something like Lancer or Marauder doesn't need them to continue to perform to the best of their ability. I have no problem with it personally because I'll probably just end up making my own but I'm sure others do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
-
11-21-2011, 10:36 PMZenakuYa i dislike the idea of pug/monk using MP to use fire,earth and wind i think that dumb making us Use MP to stay at our best perform while the others don't -.-Quote:
Originally Posted by KRose
I hope we have high MP count or it's going to suck. -
11-21-2011, 10:52 PMYazoo
We still don't know how much MP will regenerate new PGL abilities and combo.
Anyway, new PGL concept looks interesting for me. -
11-23-2011, 01:12 AMAkuunWhy not have pots for longer fights?Quote:
Originally Posted by KRose
I can understand if we had to use pots for solo content.
When I think back to XI and older FF games I can't recall
a single boss fight where you didn't have to use pots and
downs.
People already use food for fights, even though the current
foods are likely offering little to no improvements.
With re-balancing I say why not for those long fights. -
11-23-2011, 01:50 AMKRoseNot what I meant. What I mean is the fact that Pugilist is exclusively the DD that has to rely on MP which means they might (theoretically. It all depends on how much MP the stances consume) need pots in order to maintain the full potential of their DPS, something that Lancers, Marauders and even Archers are not bound by. That's the only point I was trying to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuun
Also, MP would arguably be easier to use in solo content because you have access to Featherfoot. MP shouldn't even be an issue unless the way you're soloing is cure-bombing yourself and that just isn't efficient. -
11-23-2011, 03:37 AMAkuunQuote:
Originally Posted by KRose
Looking at this, I would rather give up MP than give up TP to increase damageQuote:
LNC Abl. 2 O Consumes TP to increase attack power and damage sustained, up to a maximum of three stacks. Cannot be used simultaneously with LNC Ability 3.
LNC Abl. 3 O Consumes TP to grant an Absorb HP effect to auto-attacks, up to a maximum of three stacks. Cannot be used simultaneously with LNC Ability 2.
Marauders give up defense for their attack boost. (which could be bad as well) -
11-23-2011, 04:30 AMKRose
It's a bit easier to accumulate and manage TP than it is MP. If I wanna get TP to function all I have to do is continue to melee or not use a weaponskill that consumes all my TP at once. It kinda depends how much MP that weaponskill absorbs (and the proc rate of it) ontop of how much MP the stances consume.
Marauders giving up defense for their attack boost is only relevant on a target they could potentially take damage from - mainly something with an AoE or possibly a hate reset. -
11-23-2011, 07:02 AMAkuunAgreedQuote:
Originally Posted by KRose
Which is the majority of level 50+ nms.Quote:
Originally Posted by KRose
Basically all DD are making some sort of sacrifice for more damage.
Depending on Lancer's traits it actually could have the most sever as most of our damage comes from Weapon skills since 1.19.