Pugilist/Monk Changes Discussion and Feedback

[Arcell]

I had created a thread about this in the actual Pugilist section of the site but seeing as there's only been a single post there since April 22, 2011, I'm going to have to assume they don't really check that part of the forums as much.

I'm making this thread with the intent of discussion and providing feedback based on the information we have for the Pugilist class and Monk job.

I'll start this off by saying no we don't have enough information to really say whether these changes will truly be good or bad. What we can do with the information we have though is speculate and come to conclusions of different scenarios. This is not a QQ thread or a ragequit thread. I'm simply voicing my opinions based on what information we have and allowing others to do the same.

Personally, I'm slightly worried with the proposed changes. Currently it is a bit difficult for Pugilists to keep their MP up through long fights even with Featherfoot evade MP. Now we have more abilities being introduced which continuously drain our MP.

Whether or not this is a good or bad thing hinges solely upon a Pugilist/Monk's ability to sustain their MP through a long fight. We now have Pgl Ability 4, Pgl WS 8, Con Ability 2 and Thm Magic 2 to help with this. If it is possible for a Pugilist/Monk to sustain their MP while using their skills and abilities that drain MP, these changes will be perfectly fine and the class will be quite viable in damage roles. However, if the above skills and abilities are not sufficient for Pugilist/Monk's MP needs, then we have a bit of a problem.

With the proposed changes, when a Pugilist or Monk runs out of MP they then potentially lose a good chunk of their damage potential. How much they lose is yet to be seen. However this means that they must then either attempt to generate more MP than they're spending or they must disengage from battle to regenerate MP. Again this is all reliant upon how well they can sustain their MP, especially through long fights.

So those are most of my thoughts on the subject. Please feel free to share your own below, though I ask that we at least try to keep it civil (hard, I know).

[normalforce]

Just for reference, as I don't have all of them memorized yet...

PUG Abl. 4 - Increases evasion and restores MP when an attack is evaded. Effect fades upon evading an attack or after a certain period of time elapses.

∟PGL WS 8 (Ex) - Melee attack. Chance to absorb MP when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: PGL WS 5, Bonus: Chance to increase Absorb MP effect.

CON Abl. 2 - Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP.

THM Mag. 2 - Restores MP in proportion to damage sustained. Casts cannot be interrupted while effect is active.

I want to say Featherfoot restores around 20-40 mp if I evade an attack while its up but I just can't recall. Not sure how much Featherfoot II restores.

[Arcell]

Well if they're going to move it here anyway, might as well just lock or delete one of them >.>

The entire point of making it was because they don't check this section lol.

[TypeZ]

I had created a thread about this in the actual Pugilist section of the site but seeing as there's only been a single post there since April 22, 2011, I'm going to have to assume they don't really check that part of the forums as much.

I'm making this thread with the intent of discussion and providing feedback based on the information we have for the Pugilist class and Monk job.

I'll start this off by saying no we don't have enough information to really say whether these changes will truly be good or bad. What we can do with the information we have though is speculate and come to conclusions of different scenarios. This is not a QQ thread or a ragequit thread. I'm simply voicing my opinions based on what information we have and allowing others to do the same.

Personally, I'm slightly worried with the proposed changes. Currently it is a bit difficult for Pugilists to keep their MP up through long fights even with Featherfoot evade MP. Now we have more abilities being introduced which continuously drain our MP.

Whether or not this is a good or bad thing hinges solely upon a Pugilist/Monk's ability to sustain their MP through a long fight. We now have Pgl Ability 4, Pgl WS 8, Con Ability 2 and Thm Magic 2 to help with this. If it is possible for a Pugilist/Monk to sustain their MP while using their skills and abilities that drain MP, these changes will be perfectly fine and the class will be quite viable in damage roles. However, if the above skills and abilities are not sufficient for Pugilist/Monk's MP needs, then we have a bit of a problem.

With the proposed changes, when a Pugilist or Monk runs out of MP they then potentially lose a good chunk of their damage potential. How much they lose is yet to be seen. However this means that they must then either attempt to generate more MP than they're spending or they must disengage from battle to regenerate MP. Again this is all reliant upon how well they can sustain their MP, especially through long fights.

So those are most of my thoughts on the subject. Please feel free to share your own below, though I ask that we at least try to keep it civil (hard, I know).

You just need to think or research before u post stuff like this... Ever heard of mp pot? This post is so irrelevant -_-

[Bluetaro]

You just need to think or research before u post stuff like this... Ever heard of mp pot? This post is so irrelevant -_-

You say this as if classes should be balanced around chugging ethers to sustain itself.

[Arcell]

You just need to think or research before u post stuff like this... Ever heard of mp pot? This post is so irrelevant -_-

Ethers? Really? Lol. Yeah, because 50 mp every once in a while is going to really sustain Pugilists and Monks. Maybe YOU should think or research before you post stuff like this.

[KRose]

If you're talking about that attack "Stance" we get, it's hard to tell at this point because we don't know exactly how much MP it consumes. At the same time, they're getting a weaponskill with a chance to absorb MP but the fact that it's only a chance and that it's absorb lowers it's usefulness. The THM M.Ability[2] has the same problem Featherfoot does, you kind of have to be the target in order to regain MP in that way.

I'm personally not terribly worried. We have no idea what the 11 traits are that will probably support this system of consuming MP.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

well, mp management would become a focus point, however.. we got brd with mp regens, so on party there's no issue. while solo, we should see new abilities first

[Alise]

I m PGL hardcore plan, and I really dislike this. I made a complain on the changing in general forum tho, because I see how rare people looking in this section.

[KRose]

I mean, Pugilist was the first class I played because I liked the concept they posted. It's a lot different now than it was at launch and to an extent it's kind of scary to see how we're going this MP Consumption -> Damage route but it's hard to put a critical eye on it until we actually see how it plays out. For instance:

Let's say the stances consume MP over time and not per hit. Do they only consume MP while active/engaged or do they start consuming MP per tic as soon as you activate it?

What if they consume MP per hit? Does it only consume MP during auto-attack rounds or does it consume MP for Light Strike/Pummel/Flurry as well?

Let's say I use the offensive stance. Does the attack bonus apply during my weaponskills?

There are too many variables about the actual stances themselves that we don't know to be critical about them. Plus at the moment, our damage output is far from terrible. So even if these stances can only be used for limited periods of time because of the amount of MP they consume, it isn't like it'll break Pugilist/Monk. The only time I even come close to running out of MP at the moment is fighting Ifrit and screwing up so I have to toss a cure. If anything, this'll be an issue for lower Pugilists if these stances are like 30 as MP Management is harder at lower levels but I still can't see this being an issue at 50. Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic or something.