What Skills/Trai should be Removed, Adjusted, or Added for the new 4.0 Battle System?

So with the other topic of the skills that will be placed into the "Role" list doing quite well, I thought I would start another topic. What Skills or Traits do you think should be Removed, Adjusted, or Added to better fit the new dynamic we might see in 4.0.

Unlike the other list, that might of had a few "guidelines" for possible skills, this topic is more of a free for all. You can discuss abilities or traits that are okay but can be altered to make them more useful, or "unique" if a certain class/job share similar ones. You can talk about new replacement skill/trait for the skills that will or should be moved to the Role List, or a new skill/trait to replace a skill that just does not work.

To start off the bat since "sadly" the Esuna skills are stuck as a basic skill, I suggest adding a Trait so that each one functions a bit differently. The level for when this is acquired is up to debate but
WHM Trait: Enhanced Esuna: Esuna will purge a single status ailment from all targets within a 8y range (provides a consistent AoE but not as wide as Selenes)
SCH Trait: Enhanced Leeches: Creates a barrier preventing new ailments for 10s, cannot be cast ahead of time (works with the dynamic of Scholars preventing damage)
AST Trait: Enhanced Exalted Detriment: 20% chance of passing the ailment onto an enemy target within 8y of the initial target (it semi-fits with the idea of the term "detriment" in the skill name, passing along seems like an interesting thing)
or AST Trait: Enhanced Exalted Detriment: 30% chance of removing all ailments at once
While these traits add some uniqueness to each skill, I don't feel they really break them. But I could be wrong. what does everyone think


I will be adding my own thoughts a bit later,

Interesting idea, though I personally am opposed to making SCH more powerful than it already is. Granted, I can't think of many fights where an ailment is applied multiple times so it may not be so bad.

For DRG, maybe some sort of debuff for our AoEs and our single ranged attack. Piercing Talon can give a similar debuff like Disembowel to fit with the name. Ring of Thorns some sort of DoT and maybe similar for Doom Spike. As of now, even for their niche uses, the TP cost is just too much to justify using.

For sure Invigorate needs a shorter cooldown somehow. With fights starting to get longer and SS going up, melee is starting to chew through TP.

What purpose does the SCH Leeches trait serve if it can't be pre-cast for the shield? Because as is it is basically saying "Stop a detrimental effect...but cannot stop one unless one is already used."

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Originally Posted by Dekent

Tempered will and cover for paladins. TW can go away for all I can but Cover should be redone/buffed in a way to make it useful, it's sort of a paladin signature ability

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PLDs are using TW in boss fights like Sophia to stop them from falling.

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Originally Posted by Dekent

Tempered will and cover for paladins. TW can go away for all I can but Cover should be redone/buffed in a way to make it useful, it's sort of a paladin signature ability

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Cover gets used a lot actually to help protect healers that get caught out. I end up using it all the time to save healers in A12. I have to use it on healers multiple times a day in frontlines as well. Its already really useful.

Use Raise during battle without using a Trait

Remove any personal silences, stuns, slows and any other CC-skills and replace them with some kind of utility-cross skills (only 1 single stun, instead of 8 personal stuns)

Personal Limit Breaks. Chain them to increase their effects.

Lower cooldown on cleric stance, wanderers menuett and gauss barrel. Make stance dancing a bit more appealing.

Remove Fists of Wind.

Enable casting while moving (like in GW2). Reduce GCD a little bit.

I'd completely scrap BRD

For starters I'd make one universal song that restores both TP and MP, add no DPS loss (MCH has no DPS loss using promotion)
Add a song for nonmagical debuffs to pair with Foes Requiem.
Remove Wanderers Minuet.
Rework Flaming Arrow to replace WM, make it so it is a toggled buff similar to Fists of Fire, it would take away auto attacks and remove cast bars.
Wide Volley would be reworked into a ground placed AoE.
Rain of Death would remain free cost, but have a 10 second CD and only usable under reworked Flaming Arrow.
Iron Jaws would restore Straight Shot as well as Venomous and Wind, but it would not be given critical Straight Shot damage if Straight Shot procs and Iron Jaws is used.

POSSIBLY
Give Voice of Valor (HP regen) Rentless March (Decrease CD timers) and Voice of Fortitude (damage resistance) as Jehantel uses these in the 2.0 BRD story.

New PLD and DRK Skill: The OP, transform into a WAR for 30s. j/k. Sorry, I could not help myself.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

IMCH has no DPS loss using promotion

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Afraid to say that turrets do not fire while under promotion as such they do have a dps loss during it (by how much I'll let a MCH main fill that one)

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Originally Posted by Ralts

PLDs are using TW in boss fights like Sophia to stop them from falling.

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I use this to prevent other getting the Thunder 2 to others.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

MCH has no DPS loss using promotion

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I m wondering any time, where this misinformation actually come from. Its definitely not true.

Both turrets will not doing ANY damage when they are in their mana-/tp-regeneration-mode. That means you re losing about 13-15% of your DPS while recovering mana for other people.

@Eul: Love your sig. Cannot be unseen xD

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Afraid to say that turrets do not fire while under promotion as such they do have a dps loss during it (by how much I'll let a MCH main fill that one)

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No, they lose the auto attack under Promotion, MCH doesn't take any % loss having the turret out at all. Even with Gauss Barrel, if a MCH has the turret out they gain back their auto attack.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

I m wondering any time, where this misinformation actually come from. Its definitely not true.

Both turrets will not doing ANY damage when they are in their mana-/tp-regeneration-mode. That means you re losing about 13-15% of your DPS while recovering mana for other people.

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EDIT:
While the auto does make a % yes, promotion doesn't weaken any weaponskill damage output, which is what I should have stated, so that's my fault, regardless though BRD losses the auto and also gets hit with a 10% reduction of damage across the board for Ballad and Paeon. So if we were to math using 13-15% auto loss on MCH, a BRD losses 23-25% for the same skill. A MCH still gets to keep their auto with GB on by just using the standard Rook, so even in that case a MCH potentially nets 45% more damage using GB which is the same skill as WM.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

No, they lose the auto attack under Promotion, MCH doesn't take any % loss having the turret out at all. Even with Gauss Barrel, if a MCH has the turret out they gain back their auto attack.

EDIT:
While the auto does make a % yes, promotion doesn't weaken any weaponskill damage output, which is what I should have stated, so that's my fault, regardless though BRD losses the auto and also gets hit with a 10% reduction of damage across the board for Ballad and Paeon. So if we were to math using 13-15% auto loss on MCH, a BRD losses 23-25% for the same skill. A MCH still gets to keep their auto with GB on by just using the standard Rook, so even in that case a MCH potentially nets 45% more damage using GB which is the same skill as WM.

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MCH and BRD here. Both still have very close DPS when they are both using Ballad/Promotion. Difference is BRD's DPS is not dependent on a turret to give 15% of it's DPS. It already has it without an external source of DPS. If the turret is gone, the MCH rather in GB stance or not is losing 15% of their overall DPS.

You should probably check how these numbers work.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

I'd completely scrap BRD

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Why? BRD is perfectly fine as it is now. D: I love my BRD, and don't want it to change so drastically. It was a bit to get used to 50-60 BRD (though now I love it and feel naked without my 52-60 skills). Don't know how I would feel if they reworked the entire job, though SE probably won't.

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For starters I'd make one universal song that restores both TP and MP, add no DPS loss (MCH has no DPS loss using promotion)

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This is incorrect. MCH lost their turret's auto-attacks when their turret has been promoted to restore TP or MP. A MCH's turret makes up about 15% of their overall DPS, GB or no GB. So, to say that they don't suffer a DPS loss is incorrect. BRD loses 10% overall DPS when playing Mage's/Army's. Already less DPS loss than a MCH.

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Add a song for nonmagical debuffs to pair with Foes Requiem.

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This I can get behind. I would love to see a song that affects physical resistance of bosses. I don't think they would ever combine Foe's to do both (would probably consider it "too OP, must nerf"), but I would love to see a separate song integrated into a BRDs toolkit to give a boost to physical damage dealers, and not just casters.

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Remove Wanderers Minuet.

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Afraid to say that it's not likely they'll remove it. Especially since the developers consider it one of a BRDs "Tricks of the Trade" (as listed in the official lorebook). I personally don't mind and love my WM. I feel stronger with it (and it was a DPS increase for BRD, since it augments our damage enough to replace the loss we suffered from losing auto-attacks, and more), and would prefer them to keep it. Most BRDs that dislike WM so much are the one's who complain about lack of mobility, but there is absolutely no reason to run amok around a boss's arena, or endlessly be kiting mobs. The cast bars don't bother me, as I play healers a lot of the time, and are used to cast bars. I still manage to dodge attacks, and upkeep my DPS just fine with WM on (I know some BRDs stance-dance, but I don't think it would be that effective, considering the recast on WM, and the fact that your damage will go down significantly by taking it off--and you lose access to Empyreal Arrow).

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Rework Flaming Arrow to replace WM, make it so it is a toggled buff similar to Fists of Fire, it would take away auto attacks and remove cast bars.
Wide Volley would be reworked into a ground placed AoE.
Rain of Death would remain free cost, but have a 10 second CD and only usable under reworked Flaming Arrow.

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Care to elaborate on this? Flaming Arrow is our ground AOE. Why should it be reworked into a buff like Fists of Fire? They aren't close to being similar. I'm curious to know why you would want this change. Wide Volley, while it costs more TP than Quick Nock, I find more effective because I can still keep a distance from mobs, and not have to worry and make sure they're in my AOE cone. But this is just me. I also don't see how restricting Rain of Death would be better than it is now. I know some have complained about it sharing a recast timer with Bloodletter, but I don't really understand that complaint--if proc, RoD if 3+ mobs, Bloodletter if there's only 1-2. It's essentially a free AOE, and it gives an evasion down debuff on all mobs that it hits. We already have Empyreal Arrow and Iron Jaws restricted my WM (understandable, given that we should be using WM by the time we get both)--I don't like the idea of restricting another skill.

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Iron Jaws would restore Straight Shot as well as Venomous and Wind, but it would not be given critical Straight Shot damage if Straight Shot procs and Iron Jaws is used.

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To have Iron Jaws refresh 2 DoTs and a self-buff, SE would probably say, again, "too OP, must nerf." And are you saying that if it did refresh all 3, if Straighter Shot just so happens to proc during the refresh (we all know how Straighter Shot loves to pick the worst times to proc), we lose the proc? Or just that the refresh won't be critical, and we get to keep our proc to use at a later time?

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POSSIBLY
Give Voice of Valor (HP regen) Rentless March (Decrease CD timers) and Voice of Fortitude (damage resistance) as Jehantel uses these in the 2.0 BRD story.

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I would like to see some more song options for BRD. An HP regen song would be nice--make the regen less potent than a healer's Medica II/Aspected Helios AOE regen tick, and reduce DPS dealt by 10% like the rest of our songs (sans Foe's), and I think that would satisfy SE into not wanting to nerf it. I mean, for the longest time, BRDs did have healer LB, so. ;p

Repelling shot needs to be changed. Before minuet was tacked on to bard id use it all the time. Now I pretty much only use it in pvp to try as a last ditch effort of escaping melee limit break (and it rarely works because my or the opponents ping)

As it is in PVE you cant use it with minuet because you have to run up to the mob then it and it delays your next action because the server still thinks your moving and you cant cast your next arrow.
I mean im not a peen bard maybe im missing some cool use for it at 60, but im just not seeing it.

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Originally Posted by Jinglybell

Repelling shot needs to be changed.

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Tbh, I am not in the habit of using Repelling Shot, and I main BRD. Not only because it interrupts my next attack when I have WM on, but also because of an unfortunate incident involving Repelling Shot right off the platform of Titan that I can't quite seem to let go just yet. 83 As much as knockbacks can annoy me (if I'm tank or melee), I think SE reworking Repelling Shot into something similar to a MCH's Blank Shot would be far more effective, especially with WM. That way, you aren't pushed back, and it won't interrupt your next attack.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

What purpose does the SCH Leeches trait serve if it can't be pre-cast for the shield? Because as is it is basically saying "Stop a detrimental effect...but cannot stop one unless one is already used."

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You are right a preshield might be better, but i didnt want it to feel OP or encroach on Wardens Paean. But if no one else thinks that makes them more OP i am all for it.

On the subject of MCH, I'd love a mode that will let my turret be on "follow" mode. Nice little touch that would keep me from having to deploy my rook turret all over the place. Only question would be how to make it easy to use, considering we already have a toggle for promotion.

I'd also like the damage portion of some of our status effect abilities removed, so that they stop being required parts of the "rotation". It feels somewhat stupid to use silence or whatever for the damage instead of the effect.

The mechanic of keeping up the Hot Shot buff feels more annoying than anything. Just scrap it entirely. Also Rend Mind and Dismantle need to be reworked. The debuffs are too small to ever be used regularly. And also Rend Mind has one of the best firing animations of all the MCH skills. Switch it with Slug Shot.

And also just for fun, let Clean Shot have a chance to proc Split Shot.

Get rid of potency on stuns and silences. No need for it as they should only be used for that and nothing else.

A gap closer + stun for ninjas.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

A gap closer + stun for ninjas.

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Second. I know we already have shukuchi but shoulder tackle is the one thing I missed most when going from monk to ninja.

Remove Stoneskin II. Rework Stoneskin so that it is single target in combat, AoE outside of combat.

Make Sword Oath a trait.

Bard:

1. Make Wanderer's Minuet an oGCD skill, allows user to cast a single attack for a 50% damage increase. Duration 10s, Recast 160s.
2. Merge Mage's Ballad and Army's Paeon into one song, reduces damage dealt by 20% instead of 15%.
3. New song at Level 40: Virtue Cadenza, applies a regen on nearby party members, reduces damage dealt by 20%. Cure potency: 90.
4. Iron Jaws and Empyreal Arrow now usable outside of Wanderer's Minuet.
5. Wide Volley is now oGCD and single-target, now applies a debuff called Pierced Ear, reduces damage dealt by target by 10%. Duration 10s, Recast 120s.

Machinist:

1. Make Gauss Barrel an oGCD skill, allows user to cast a single attack for a 50% damage increase. Duration 10s, Recast 180s.
2. New skill at Level 22: Tinker, attaches a new barrel, this new barrel changes Emergency Round from a silence to a stun, changes Debilitating Shot from Bind to Heavy, changes Malfunction to 5% Magic damage decrease. Increases auto-attack potency by 10%.
3. Merge Head Graze and Suppressive Fire into Emergency Round, can be cast at 15y Range. Emergency Round gained at Level 34.
4. Merge Foot Graze and Leg Graze into Debilitating Shot. Debilitating Shot gained at Level 10.
5. New skill at Level 45, Sniper Rifle: Triples the potency of the next weaponskill. Cast time: 6s, Recast 180s.
6. Merge Dismantle and Rent Mind into Malfunction. Malfunction gained at Level 50.
7. New skill at Level 52, Scope, attaches a scope, this new scope allows the user to cast skills at an increase of 20% damage, while all auto-attacks drop to 50% potency.
8. Gauss Round is now a Level 56 skill.
9. Ricochet now does 300 potency to all targets, instead of 100 to target and 200 spread.

These are changes I would personally like to see.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Machinist:

1. Make Gauss Barrel an oGCD skill, allows user to cast a single attack for a 50% damage increase. Duration 10s, Recast 180s.
2. New skill at Level 22: Tinker, attaches a new barrel, this new barrel changes Emergency Round from a silence to a stun, changes Debilitating Shot from Bind to Heavy, changes Malfunction to 5% Magic damage decrease. Increases auto-attack potency by 10%.
3. Merge Head Graze and Suppressive Fire into Emergency Round, can be cast at 15y Range. Emergency Round gained at Level 34.
4. Merge Foot Graze and Leg Graze into Debilitating Shot. Debilitating Shot gained at Level 10.
5. New skill at Level 45, Sniper Rifle: Triples the potency of the next weaponskill. Cast time: 6s, Recast 180s.
6. Merge Dismantle and Rent Mind into Malfunction. Malfunction gained at Level 50.
7. New skill at Level 52, Scope, attaches a scope, this new scope allows the user to cast skills at an increase of 20% damage, while all auto-attacks drop to 50% potency.
8. Gauss Round is now a Level 56 skill.
9. Ricochet now does 300 potency to all targets, instead of 100 to target and 200 spread.

These are changes I would personally like to see.

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I like the proposed MCH changes a lot, though I wonder if they'd go through that much effort. Honestly, I'd appreciate them even changing the animations around a bit. Some of the only good/cool MCH animations are bound to Rend Mind and Foot Graze, which see almost no use. The main 2 abilities in our rotation, Slug Shot and Split Shot look almost exactly the same.

MCH Specific changes:

Gauss Barrel: Change to Gauss Mode and remove the end attachment. Perhaps consider adding indicator lights to the lunchbox. Remove the barrel attachment. Seriously, most of us MCHs hated it to the point that even just a stance indicator would be fine.
Dismantle/Rend Mind: Either combine these into one, or increase the percent damage reduction for having separate skills on a shared cooldown.
Leg Graze/Foot Graze: These are both different and very useful CC abilities, especially in PvP, and there's little reason they should share a cooldown. It often only results in one not being available if/when needed as the flow of battle shifts.

Better running animation with your weapon drawn. You gave Bards a more practical casting stance, yet our weapon bearing arm remains so static in motion that it look unnatural. Please give this a second glance.

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Originally Posted by Dekent

Tempered will and cover for paladins. TW can go away for all I can but Cover should be redone/buffed in a way to make it useful, it's sort of a paladin signature ability

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For a signature ability it's pretty limited and horrible to use. I agree that is should be a signature ability, but it needs a lot of work to be that.

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Originally Posted by FaileExperiment

snip

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I agree Dismantle/Rend Mind could be better, but I wouldn't call them useless. They are a nice contributing factor to major tank busters and heal checks. Like the double whirlwind on the last phase of AS11. It isn't the biggest contributor, but 5% is better than nothing.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I agree Dismantle/Rend Mind could be better, but I wouldn't call them useless. They are a nice contributing factor to major tank busters and heal checks. Like the double whirlwind on the last phase of AS11. It isn't the biggest contributor, but 5% is better than nothing.

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They're useful, but like a soft majority of the MCH's abilities they come off as underwhelming.
Most other jobs get KEY abilities added to their rotations, or REALLY big cooldowns that are fun to use from 50-60.
MCH gets the same ability in two different flavours that shares a cooldown (which is just supervirus, whoopie), and a 60 second OGCD ability is 'meant' for AoE, but it's more useful to only hit one thing with it, because of the insane downside of spreading 200 potency to all targets hit.
To put this in perspective, Fullthrust is considerably more powerful than Ricochet at all times, (And you can force Full Thrust to crit, you can't do this with Ricochet, though there is a small chance that both hits can crit) and it's earned 40 levels earlier and doesn't have a huge cooldown associated to it.

What's, by far, the most significant thing a MCH brings to a raid group? Hypercharge. Square has buffed it to such an absurd degree it's insane. It's an incredibly powerful ability that requires no real setup to pull off. You have to put some work in to get a triple Fell Cleave, or a Trick Attack. You just push a button and it sorta happens with Hypercharge.

Posted in another thread. I didn't like what I made for AST, so I left it out for now. Tried giving traits to skills and a final new skill.

For WHM I wanted to focus on giving them minor mitigation, especially powerful after a death with a traited Asylum, more ways to encourage DPSing while managing MP, and taking care of (the mistakes of) the party. It makes the job more complex, but also gives them more utility to DPS (or to milk it for free heals.) I also tried to give SS more of a chance in battle for those that DPS.

WHM [borderline broken] wishlist:

62- Tetragrammaton- Splash heals for 300 potency around the target cure with 700 potency with a Radius of 8 yalms.

64- Cleric Stance- Upon entering Cleric Stance, "Miraculous Cure" is gained for 20 seconds. The next cure will have no casting time and will cause the "Free Cure" trait to become 100%. Ends upon execution of cure or when the buff times out. (Cure II will cost no mana after casting an instant cast cure upon entering Cleric Stance.)

66- Asylum- Damage taken while within Asylum will be reduced by 5%, the effects of Weakness are nullified within Asylum. Current effect remains.

68- Benediction- HP, MP, and TP are restored to Maximum.

70- Omen of Ole- Absolute waters wash away all sin, dealing 250 potency AOE damage and cleansing all debuffs on surrounding party members. 15 yalms. 60 seconds.

Odds and Ends-
Quicker Stoneskin trait changed to "One with Earth" - Casting Stone, Stone II, Stone III or Stoneskin has a 15% chance to reduce the cast time to instant and the MP cost to 0 for the next Stoneskin cast. Duration: 20 Seconds.




I tried to focus on a few things. More interaction with the fairy and swapping fairies (hopefully more fairy skills.) Increase the interaction of Dissipation. Enhance their DPS strengths. Increased Mitigation tools.


SCH [borderline broken] wishlist:

62- Emergency Tactics - The next Galvanize will be converted into raw healing. The next DoT cast will have its damage done up front, on top of placing it's debuff. (Thundercloud proc) If cast before Bane, Bane will gain a base potency of 100 and can miss. (Bane is an ability, so it will not trigger the thundercloud like proc. I really wanna make this skill flexible. Scholars are all about CDs and their interaction.)

64-Ruin- The MP cost of ruin has been increased (equal to Blizzard II.) The radius of ruin has been increased from 0 to 8. [Ruin has become an AOE] (Maybe add a 100% chance to add either Heavy, Slow, or Paralyze. Yes, Heavy and Slow are redundant when used with Miasma II/Shadowflare, but thats the point. Making Paralyze the jackpot status. I don't think its really needed, but the extra effect would really add flavor.)

66- Deployment Tactics- When used, the duration of your Eye for an Eye, Virus, and Galvanize is reset. Eye for an Eye and Galvanize spread to surrounding party members. Virus is spread to surrounding enemies.

68- Dissipation - Critical Rate is increased by 20% on top of current effect. Recast time is reduced to 120 seconds.

70- Aetherial Shift- Can only be used under the effect of Dissipation or when a Fairy is summoned. Current fairy is sent away and the opposite is resummoned. If under the effect of Dissipation, the fairy that was not consumed is summoned. Upon execution the effect of Dissipation ends. Cool down of 240 seconds.

Odds and Ends-
Selenes Silent Dusk no longer applies Silence, instead it places an 8 second magic vulnerability down on a single target and is called Fey Charm. Cool down of 90 seconds.

If pets receive 60 Skills

Selene would keep her silence and instead gains Fey Charm at 60.

Eos would receive Fey Memento. A buff is placed on a target party member. The next spell based heal received will form a barrier on the target for the amount healed. Does not work with the additional healing of Emergency Tactics, but may be procced by other party members. This skill could be too powerful, so I feel the duration of the procced buff should be much less than 30 seconds, maybe 10-15 seconds. Cool down of 90 seconds.

I feel like rouse and spur for SMN could be condensed

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Bard:
New song at Level 40: Virtue Cadenza, applies a regen on nearby party members, reduces damage dealt by 20%. Cure potency: 90.

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I really wanna see something that would bring some healer support into the role. They already bring MP restore, which really helps healers. I don't want it to affect outgoing damage though, so a separate cost than damage needs to be done. I think putting it on a CD as well as MP cost would be enough.

BRD- Voice of Valor- Party members within range gain a regen that restore 5% of their max health. Duration 30 seconds. Cool down of 120 seconds. Radius of 20 yalms. 50% of Max MP consumed.

MCH- Particle Rejection- A barrier is formed around your Rook or Bishop Turret. Party members and pets within range of your Rook or Bishop Turret take 5% less damage for 15 seconds. Radius of 8 yalms. (Reducing damage, instead of healing it, has allot of advantages, therefore its radius and duration are decreased.) 50% of Max MP consumed. Cool down of 120 seconds.