RIP Diadem again

235 literally not worth doing.
Unless retuned diadem turns out to be an exceptional way to get grade 5 materia, nobody will bother with it.

I was wondering about that myself. All things considered, that 235 ilevel seems pretty low considering the ilevel is going to be above 240.

Yeah, this is a letdown. Lore tomestones are going to be falling from the sky, so getting i230 gear is going to be insanely easy. Why bother going out of the way for i235 gear?

I'm a big fan of PoTD, and overall this looks like a great patch.

But man, at this point the Diadem is just a colossal waste of development team resources.

If they would make it relevant like back in 3.1 then everyone would complain again how easy such good gear will be to obtain. People did complain about that in 3.1 and they just adjusted it to that feedback. 235 is probably the best way as its not much weaker than 240, still somehow relevant and useful for a lot of casual players main characters and for the hc players off classes while not being such a high ilvl that people would complain about it.

Humm maybe wait for the patch notes? Just a thought.

And I have all roles leveled... ilevel 235 gear would probably be pretty good for most of those roles. Going to have to wait and see.

This is the problem tomestones present in general. If you put better gear in a farmable currency, weekly cap or no, it invalidates anything that isn't the same power level at minimum. It forces Diadem gear to have to be INSANELY powerful to compensate. I feel like Diadem as a catachup mechanic would work if we ditched tomestones altogether.

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

If they would make it relevant like back in 3.1 then everyone would complain again how easy such good gear will be to obtain. People did complain about that in 3.1 and they just adjusted it to that feedback. 235 is probably the best way as its not much weaker than 240, still somehow relevant and useful for a lot of casual players main characters and for the hc players off classes while not being such a high ilvl that people would complain about it.

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Why would hardcore players gear their off classes with anything but 250 crafted? I also am having trouble seeing any casual players managing to find groups for the retuned Diadem when it's inferior.

It's a tough balance to strike.
Too low an ilevel and the content is "Dead on Arrival". Too high and people complain about it devaluing raid gear, especially if it's uncapped compared to other sources for the same ilevel.

Maybe i240 would have been better? Equal to upgraded lore but one less step to get since you don't need to get upgrade items for it.

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Originally Posted by thorkellthetall

I also am having trouble seeing any casual players managing to find groups for the retuned Diadem when it's inferior.

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First guess: Retuned Diadem will be connected to the relic. (I REALLY hope that's not the case).

Second guess: They put some kind of item in there that's needed for progression.

Third guess: It will be involved with that new Tails content or whatever it's called.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

First guess: Retuned Diadem will be connected to the relic. (I REALLY hope that's not the case).

Second guess: They put some kind of item in there that's needed for progression.

Third guess: It will be involved with that new Tails content or whatever it's called.

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It could be involved in Wondrous Tales, but you can only get credit for 9 of the rolled duties, so people could simply ignore Diadem altogether. Diadem was necessary for the crafted step of Anima, so they could indeed revisit it for the 3.45 step.

Wait, how can it be RIP again? I thought it never recovered from the first time. :3

Diadem will have materials needed for the i250 crafted combat gear. Just as it had materials needed for the last level of crafted combat gear, and for the relic.

I get the feeling that gear (at least not their silly little ilvl 235 ones) will be what they use to draw people back in. You know whatever new plans they have for spoils is what they are probably banking on bringing "life" back into this content. That or mats for new glamours/higher ilvl gear are being gated in Diadem. Or a new mount. Or a minion. You know the drill.

i235 might seem low, but is actually not that bad considering mistbreak gear has a lot of secondary stats and is meldable, its a nice entry level gear for the next patch content anyways, and desynth from those might yield materials for higher gear.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Diadem will have materials needed for the i250 crafted combat gear. Just as it had materials needed for the last level of crafted combat gear, and for the relic.

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220 crafted combat requires nothing from Diadem. Only Carbonweave and Anima crafts.

Edit: Except a few pieces seem to require pterodactyl leather. Might be something else. But not much.

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Originally Posted by thorkellthetall

220 crafted combat requires nothing from Diadem. Only Carbonweave and Anima crafts.

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Most people can't afford 250 crafted gear for their main let alone all their alt roles.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Most people can't afford 250 crafted gear.

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But people can easily acquire 230, then 240 upgrade items. Which will likely be easier to find groups for than trying to get into Diadem for inferior gear.

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Originally Posted by thorkellthetall

But people can easily acquire 230, then 240 upgrade items. Which will likely be easier to find groups for than trying to get into Diadem for inferior gear.

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Farming Weeping for upgrade tokens isn't something most would enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Diadem will have materials needed for the i250 crafted combat gear. Just as it had materials needed for the last level of crafted combat gear, and for the relic.

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This.

You can easily bet you're going to have to go into Diadem to get your crafted 250 gear. Probably new mats too, and maybe even requiring new spoils (which is why they said to get rid of the ones people like me hoarded away).

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Farming Weeping for upgrade tokens isn't something most would enjoy.

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Neither was dinosaur island.

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Originally Posted by thorkellthetall

220 crafted combat requires nothing from Diadem. Only Carbonweave and Anima crafts.

Edit: Except a few pieces seem to require pterodactyl leather. Might be something else. But not much.

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You are correct. It was the i185 sky pirate stuff that required Diadem mats, not the i220 combat gear.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

You are correct. It was the i185 sky pirate stuff that required Diadem mats, not the i220 combat gear.

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Actually it looks like the 220 Crafted Waist pieces were the only ones that required Diadem mats. So there's precedent. I'm alright with them expanding and making new materials to have Diadem be relevant in SOME way. I just don't think only adding 235 gear is the way to make people bother.

Guys take it easy. sure diedram had i1210 gear at re-lease which was high. but that don't mean the new diaderm gear has to be top gear on release. remmeber there should be greades of gear u get there, and u know it's a 6 month long patch,. be patient i am sure they can add later some more gear. besides, i am sure some i235 pieces can be better than some i240 pieces if they got the best stats. this is the trade off.

Considering that IL 230 was the gear for the current weekly tome with the upgrade coming from other content, putting i235 gear into current Diadem isn't bad at all.

If it was flat out 240 it would cause people to stop doing Void Ark compltely, because why bother when it's just easier to get gear in Diadem.

You always gotta keep in mind, loot like this isn't designed for someone who keeps up with their gear HOWEVER, it can be a helpful stepping stone if you are in need of some quick i235 gear for x job or heck if you wanna roulette your luck with glamour.

But honestly, for the fact that the content itself hasn't been adjusted yet, i235 is pretty good cause in all honesty Diadem is going/should be the same difficulty it is now, since all they seem to be doing at the moment is adjusting drop rates and loot, they haven't released the full overhaul they have planned.

The spoil changes are the interesting thing for diadem in this patch, not the gear. Need to see how the rewards and exchange rates have changed.

Agreed that 235 gear is not attractive when you can get 250 stuff with no weekly limit. You either level your DOH and make it yourself, or save gil and buy it, or do Wondrous Tails for a chance to receive ready-made 250 pieces. Nobody should aim to wear 235 stuff any more, but we might be able to exchange those diadem pieces for useful items.

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Originally Posted by thorkellthetall

Why would hardcore players gear their off classes with anything but 250 crafted? I also am having trouble seeing any casual players managing to find groups for the retuned Diadem when it's inferior.

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Because the sheer cost will be absurd. There just isn't really a point unless you occasionally raid on an off class. Besides, no content outside Savage and Sophia EX will require anything above ilvl 220. So... no real point to spending tons of gil.

I would love to solo queue it just for gathering, but I cant I need a party to go with me or a house.

Of all the things that I was looking forward to in Heavensward, Diadem was easily the second biggest disappointment, right there behind Alexander Savage. It honestly makes me sad that they have no plans to revisit the content structure, and will instead just force it down people's throats with ephemereal rewards that are inferior to other alternatives. It could have been an awesome procedurally-generated map with tons of unique objectives beyond just "go farm the thing to get the thing to trade for the thing" - which is pretty much ALL the content we have in this game ATM.

When it was first announced, I was so excited to have some fun low-key content to do with FC mates who aren't interested in doing EX primals or raiding, but still like exploration and group content. When it was revealed to basically be "hunts in the sky", I was super bummed and disappointed. Now I'm disappointed AGAIN, seeing that SE's "revamp" of this content is basically just funneling people back into it with the promise of new mediocre rewards, while not bothering to address WHY it so quickly became dead content to begin with.

Diadem idea was nice, until they decide to make it a monster party.... honestly if the diadem was different i will do it. but right now....simply no.
a few reason to that:
1) in queue random, you can be mixed with gatherer and fighter, meaning instead to be 8 to do something, you can end to be at 6-5 and sometimes it's the healer that go gatherer, leaving the group unable to fight.2) it's boring... let's face it, the main trouble is this.... it's freaking boring. the idea is good, the way to implement it is soo bad. you end to do a monster party or simply passing your time to gather while run away from monster that recquire a full group for be killed.
3) the way is done...
instead to give us a large zone, why not have give us small mission into semi randomized area, i means you divide the map of diadem in map for each island and when you enter, your mission is decided randomly, you can choose what type of mission you want to end with (meaning either fighting or gathering) and more important, add 2 version for the diadem (one for 8 player and one for 4 player) like this people never know on which island they will end, nor what they need to do exactly on this island, nor even which type of monster they will face. it will make it far better already like this.and add the choice to do it to 4 to 8 player will allows small group to be formed.


so far FF14 make people jump from 4 to 8 player content without really anyway to create bond with people. DF is nice, but i feel it needed to create a way for player to make bond. and instead to force player to go full group first, maybe allows people to gather new friend throught encounter.

245-255 would have been the proper stepping stone ilevel for this gear.(its not meldable right?) and only if it retained the potential bis with additional random stats attatched to it. why theyre going 235 is stupid, most people are decked in 240 via the 24 man. and what ilevel was the last dungeon gear? 215? so the next will be what 225? we all know why the 210 outcry happened, busted the best raid gear a new one, but putting this around crafted level would be the best thing. 235? what a joke. for what.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

I get the feeling that gear (at least not their silly little ilvl 235 ones) will be what they use to draw people back in. You know whatever new plans they have for spoils is what they are probably banking on bringing "life" back into this content. That or mats for new glamours/higher ilvl gear are being gated in Diadem. Or a new mount. Or a minion. You know the drill.

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There's already the mount & minion from Diadem that hardly anyone could get due to a sheer lack of community interest. If you didn't get it in the first week or two there's no chance.

You know this is a role playing game content shouldn't need gear to make it interesting or fun gear is should be more of a bonus really I'll still have some fun with this even if the gear is lackluster

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

There's already the mount & minion from Diadem that hardly anyone could get due to a sheer lack of community interest. If you didn't get it in the first week or two there's no chance.

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The mount is/was easy enough to get just being mildly active with Diadem. I know people who literally duo'd or low-manned farmed the 99 spoils for the mount. The fact that the devs have "asked" players to discard the current spoils leads me to believe that everything bought with them now is going to be bought only with some new spoil token- of course I don't fully trust them until I see it with my own eyes, not after Yoshi-P telling 1.0 players to discard beastmen coin currencies when he became Producer (because they weren't going to do anything with them) only to make them a requirement for obtaining a relic weapon near the end of 1.0... But I digress, I'm willing to bet that in 3.4 everyone will have another chance to get that Pegasus if they couldn't be bothered/ weren't around the first time.

The hawk minion though was also gated behind RNG that puts the primal mounts' drop rates pre-nerf to shame. So yeah, I don't expect people to realistically have those hawks the same way the mount was easily worked for.

My original point wasn't about more mounts and minions anyway though, its that just sticking desirable things back in there outside of catch-up gear made out of sugar, spice and RNG dice would breathe life back into Diadem, if superficial.

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

If they would make it relevant like back in 3.1 then everyone would complain again how easy such good gear will be to obtain. People did complain about that in 3.1 and they just adjusted it to that feedback. 235 is probably the best way as its not much weaker than 240, still somehow relevant and useful for a lot of casual players main characters and for the hc players off classes while not being such a high ilvl that people would complain about it.

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Sorrry Zeniba my friend, but i don't really agree with it.
Diadem was a new way to get relevant gears and you were not limited as it was and it is actually for tomestone and raid.
I'am a harcore player (A8S cleared) and for me it was really nice to have the possibility to improve my rotations for any jobs during hours, and to get with high luck very good rewards.
Sure the gears raid lost in value but you had to be very lucky and patient to get gears which could replace it.
And people actually complain because they can't have high level gears for all their jobs at once, and there is nothing to do in this game after nearly one month (even with raid) after the launch of a new patch.
I'am in this case right know, I go play other games. Before with Diadem, it was not true.
Diadem was the content which offer to players a new way to play FF XIV and have gears without restrictions, improve skills (a little bit if you cared) and have fun (or not).
And finally, I really don't care if casual players have better gear than hardcore players because what determine the level of a good player is his skills.
So yeah, I'am disappointed by this incoming ilevel 235 gears Diadem...

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Originally Posted by RubyCirha

You know this is a role playing game content shouldn't need gear to make it interesting[...]

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Well...that only works to a degree.

No matter how good a game or content, repetition is going to make it worse bit by bit. That's just an unfortunate truth. Gameplay can compel for a very long time - LoL captured many gamers for thousands of games of over 20 minutes each without requiring "rewards" for their game, but at some point, things get dull and people need to be convinced to play anyway. In PvE, the fun-falloff is usually quite a bit more drastic, hence you tend to need bigger rewards and rewards people actually enjoy - progression (power) and cosmetics.

That said, the better the content, the later you need rewards to get people to run it. If people are trying something out and dropping it like it's hot or don't bother with it in the first place...chances are it's a content issue.

I wouldn't mind the iLevel being 235 if it has 5 guaranteed materia slots.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Because the sheer cost will be absurd. There just isn't really a point unless you occasionally raid on an off class. Besides, no content outside Savage and Sophia EX will require anything above ilvl 220. So... no real point to spending tons of gil.

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As opposed to spending gil on what, glamor and minions? The only thing gil has any value for regarding building up your character is progression. Materials for food and potions, and crafted battle gear for until you acquire superior tomestone gear or raid gear. Like you said, non-extreme or savage content can be done with just about any hodgepodge gear. Gil has no purpose otherwise.

I wouldn't take Diadem overall too seriously, this is just a push to maybe get participation numbers up a bit, and maybe an "apology" for not having the rework finished, but even if it does get some traffic at the start ill be the same as before overall imo. on the plus side can go in as DoL now so yay fishies!, or w/e >.> I mean there is a reason it doesn't get much "attention" in the live letters or trailer, on a positive note though I am still interested to see what the actual rework brings =D

Maybe if this new Diadem place has am increased Hawk rate...
I'm willing to shell out my life savings for one but nobody has one up and nobody wants to go farming. Sad times!

I said it on the first page and no else but the OP chimed in so I'll repeat here. I have a feeling that the retuned diadem will probably have new crafting mats needed for the next relic step. I could be wrong, but I think it's fairly plausible.