Will Parry become worthwhile in the next patch?

Hello! I've been looking around at PLD gear discussions, and Parry seems to be considered absolute trash, on every class forever. Is this something that is likely to be changing any time soon, do we know?

Yeah Yoshida said that 4.X will bring changes to Parry, god only knows it needs it.

Supposedly, they did make big changes to it for HW which inevitably made it even less desirable, so we'll see

I don't think they ever stated exactly when, but I think they said, that they would overwork parry in 3.4(?)+ or with the next expansion.

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Producer LIVE Part XXVIII Digest (2016/04/12)
0:08:17
Q: Is there any way to add a noticeable utility to the parry stat on tank equipment?

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A: As of Patch 3.2 it's possible to meld materia into the new equipment sets, and we're aware that many tank players are not choosing parry when they are considering which materia to meld into their equipment, focusing on determination or critical hit rate instead. I’ve been discussing this with the development team, and they said that the parry calculation is based on a gradual curve, so even if players were to focus on parry, it wouldn’t have any noticeable effect because the rate at which enemy damage is mitigated would not necessarily increase. However, this is tied to large-scale system changes, and while I can't give an official comment just yet, we are looking into whether we can make adjustments in Patch 3.4, when the item level is increased, or around Patch 4.0.

Just change Parry to Counter already... People don't like Parry because it's purely a mitigation stat, they'll take Critical Hit Rate and Determination over it every time because those stats increase damage... Make Parry into Counter, and it is potentially a solid DPS increase... Suddenly you're not just mitigating 20%, you're throwing out an additional auto-attack... The amount the stat improves rate would still need adjustment, arguably more so with it also providing a light DPS increase, but I just don't think it'll ever be a popular stat without something more...

Arguably that could break tanks somewhat, but after the Vitality/Strength changes... Excuse me while I don't care... Raw Intuition might need an adjustment, would be interesting to see how Counter would function with Sword Oath as well, if that provides an additional 50 potency on Counters as well, then Paladin gets slightly more interesting IMO... Dark Knight wouldn't change much IMO, other than actually having reason to gear the stat...

Would also be nice for "Parry" and Block to not be almost functionally identical... There's an almost arbitrary distinction between the two... I suppose that's another alternative though; Remove Parry from gear, and instead make it an additional function of weapons, the same way Block Rate/Strength is solely a function of Shields...

Itemization is boned in this game whatever they do, though... Stats just don't have the kind of impact that makes specific builds rewarding, none of them do... Itemization is more of a formality in this game, a justification for two pieces of gear with the same item level to exist... People are always just going to pick the best stat, because there is no reason not to... OK, no matter what there will always be a "best" option, but if itemization does its job, and the balancing is tight enough, I don't personally care... It's more about making a build that plays the way you enjoy, but stats here just don't inform gameplay nearly enough to allow for that... They could honestly remove all the stats and just have us chase item levels, and I don't think we'd notice that much of a difference...

The problem with parry isn't the scaling, it's the facts that:

1. It does nothing for you when off tanking.
2. Even when MT it is only effective if you're being hit frequently
3. It only applies to physical attacks

Adding a counter-attack would be a step in the right direction, but still doesn't address the first point. I'm sure there are other reasons that make it undesirable besides these, just the top 3 off the top of my head.

Parry should do nothing while OTing, as an OT your job is to deal as much damage as possible until you need to either pick up adds or tank swap. Why should there be a side benefit to parrying for when you're not taking damage?

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Parry should do nothing while OTing, as an OT your job is to deal as much damage as possible until you need to either pick up adds or tank swap. Why should there be a side benefit to parrying for when you're not taking damage?

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Because literally every other stat on your gear offers benefits both when mt and ot. The gains to mt would have to be huge to justify losing a stat that has dual utility.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

I’ve been discussing this with the development team, and they said that the parry calculation is based on a gradual curve, so even if players were to focus on parry, it wouldn’t have any noticeable effect because the rate at which enemy damage is mitigated would not necessarily increase.

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I love this quote, the short version is "I talked to the devs and they said that Parry is pointless too."

In the next patch I doubt any major changes, but perhaps in 4.0...

Does this mean Keen Flurry might actually become a great skill for me in more situations? Knowing SE though they would change the skill into something even worse than Keen Flurry.

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Originally Posted by Deathgiver

Adding a counter-attack would be a step in the right direction, but still doesn't address the first point. I'm sure there are other reasons that make it undesirable besides these, just the top 3 off the top of my head.

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Hmm... Well, I'm incline to think they should just remove Parry outright and treat it the same as Evasion... Replace it with Counter, and just give it some synergy with tanking... Something like;

"Grants a chance to preform an additional auto-attack every time your current target attacks, with an increased chance to Counter upon blocking, parrying, or dodging an attack".

That's still worthwhile when not tanking, it's just improved while tanking...

Really though... They could remove all stats and treat them like Evasion, and I'm not sure I'd notice... Itemization is just pathetic in this game... Secondary stats really need to have a more noticeable impact, IMO... People will always go for the best option here, because that's kinda the only option... If things worked differently, I could see people going for something like Critical Hit Rate + Skill Speed, because that combination is rewarding... Critical Hit Rate + Determination might still be superior, but if these stats had more of an impact, I can see the rational that would lead someone for favoring Skill Speed instead... It's a logical combination, more of your hits are critical, and you're getting more hits in... If the result of that combination was actually noticeable, I'm sure it would be satisfying to build your character in that way, even if it's not technically the best option... I mean, gearing Skill Speed can be noticeable, but for the wrong reasons... It's a really dumb stat in that regard, if you build it specifically you'll just run out of TP quicker and it's slowing you down instead... That's like making it so too much Accuracy has you missing more than you were with too little...

There is really just no satisfaction in stats, IMO... Parry is kind of the epitome of that... A Parry build is not satisfying, because it just doesn't do anything, even if you're main tanking... If it had a noticeable impact, then I could get the desire to gear for it... You wont always be the main tank, but you geared it for the satisfaction it brings when you are the main tank...

In the Gamescom interviews Yoshi was pretty explicit about not wanting to make any major changes to stats and balancing before 4.0. He's aware of the problems with parry but they already have some major overhauls planned for 4.0 as it is so it makes sense to roll them all out together in the expansion. If they made any major changes now they would have to be revised again in 4.0 anyway due to the other changes so it would be a rather inefficient use of time.

I don't feel like going and looking for the source, but we've been told it'll have an effect similar to determination. It's going to become an offensive stat, likely while keeping its current effect. Counter wouldn't solve the problem as it's still a CHANCE based defensive stat, meaning you still have to heal as if it didn't activate. Keen Flurry likely won't get super buffed as it would add activation rate to parry, similar to how Internal Release and Battle Litany don't add "+crit hit damage" like the "+critical hit rate" materia does.

They could just make crit = 1 parry and 1 crit double dipping the stats would make OT DPS not suffer either. They need to add what someone said above into something whether it be det or crit but I think double dipping crit and parry is the better option.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Hmm... Well, I'm incline to think they should just remove Parry outright and treat it the same as Evasion... Replace it with Counter, and just give it some synergy with tanking... Something like;

"Grants a chance to preform an additional auto-attack every time your current target attacks, with an increased chance to Counter upon blocking, parrying, or dodging an attack".

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The problem with Parry is it's entirely RNG based. You cannot structure your build around something like that, especially not mitigation. Even changing it to a potential free auto attack wouldn't make it worthwhile because Crit/Det is guaranteed damage throughout the fight.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The problem with Parry is it's entirely RNG based. You cannot structure your build around something like that, especially not mitigation. Even changing it to a potential free auto attack wouldn't make it worthwhile because Crit/Det is guaranteed damage throughout the fight.

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To be fair, Crit is also entirely RNG based, and yet it is the best possible secondary to stack for most jobs.

No, the problem with Parry, as has already been stated, is that no matter how you tool it, it's a worthless stat on the off tank. To parry something, you have to have an incoming attack - and the off-tank doesn't get any of those in most situations. Parry doesn't just need to be adjusted; it needs to be replaced altogether. Or, as a less savory alternative, it, and the monsters that tanks tank, could be buffed to the point where tanks HAVE to stack Parry just to survive - and even if that happened, you'd have tanks trying to figure out the minimal possible amount of Parry to stack while still getting the job done.

Counterattacks suffer from the same problem; the off-tank gets no benefit. That said, I DO like the idea of tanks getting the ability to counterattack... How about this for an idea? Rather than counterattack, call them opportunity attacks. When a main tank takes a hit, they have a chance to inflict an attack of opportunity - and if that chance succeeds, any other tanks attacking the same target ALSO get a free attack in. Similarly, an off-tank has a chance of triggering an opportunity attack every time they strike the mob, and if it succeeds, the main tank (and any other off-tank) also gets a free hit in. This chance, both when giving or receiving attacks, is greater the higher you stack the stat. The tank is goading the enemy into a vulnerable position, which she and the other tanks can then exploit - seems like a tanky sort of flavor to me.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

No, the problem with Parry, as has already been stated, is that no matter how you tool it, it's a worthless stat on the off tank. To parry something, you have to have an incoming attack - and the off-tank doesn't get any of those in most situations. Parry doesn't just need to be adjusted; it needs to be replaced altogether.

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I disagree completely with this. playing off tank is something that is only a thing in 8-player content. For Tanks Parry is always useful in any circumstance except being off-tank. For all players parry is useful anytime they are individually fighting one or more enemies. Parry as a skill does not exist for or depend on, the off-tank using it. It applies to everyone, and is a defensive stat. I feel that like auto attack it needs to be released a little and allow the parry rate to be assessed against all physical attacks regardless of facing, and the parry stat needs to have a measurable impact on either the rate or strength of the parry made.

But this idea that parry shouold go because off tanks can't use it is ludicrous. Parry exists for more than that.

Stats don't matter outside of 8 person content.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Stats don't matter outside of 8 person content.

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1. they should.
2. the game is far larger than the 8 man content
3. if I wanted a game that was primarily about 8 man content (aka raiding) I would not be playing FFXIV.

i think they should seperate the parry stat and the parry battle-effect. make the parry battle-effect an fixed % chance to parry an attack and mitigate the damage by 20%. then they don't need to make any changes to skills with parry effects, like drg, war and drk have.

then they can take the parry stat and overhaul it to be something completely different. like a defensive determination-like stat or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

People don't like Parry because it's purely a mitigation stat

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Nope. People hate Parry because it has a really crappy scaling rate, because the combat table sets almost everything against it, and because it doesn't provide a meaningful impact on group success (there isn't enough incoming damage outside of tankbusters for it to feel worthwhile, and tankbusters are almost always predictable). Upgrading to a piece of gear with more Def/MDef is going to see infinitely better mitigation returns than even moving from a full-Crit piece to a full-Parry piece, and when you compare that feeble amount of mitigation to the potential of killing a boss 1% faster, it isn't worth it.

I'd really like for Parry to become a more worthwhile stat, but SE would need to make a lot of changes for that to be the case. For a rundown on it, take a look at this thread: Four Ways to Die - Why the Tank Meta Feels "Off". The gist is that in a world where the biggest threat to your survival comes in the form of a single, highly-predictable period of high incoming damage, the value of passive survival is greatly diminished. Now, this is changed slightly in Midas (that thread was written during Gordias), but it is still considered best practice for tanks to get "enough" mitigation to survive the tankbusters, and then focus on maximizing damage output--there simply isn't a great enough need for extra survivability beyond that point.

It would feel good to need to be un-killable, but the game would need to take a big shift for that to happen.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

1. they should.
2. the game is far larger than the 8 man content
3. if I wanted a game that was primarily about 8 man content (aka raiding) I would not be playing FFXIV.

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Well, they could go all FFXI and make every single stat point count...

But on the topic of Parry, it would be very much appriciated if it were made better, at least for WAR and DRK, since they can't Block like PLDs can...

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Originally Posted by Tint

i think they should seperate the parry stat and the parry battle-effect. make the parry battle-effect an fixed % chance to parry an attack and mitigate the damage by 20%. then they don't need to make any changes to skills with parry effects, like drg, war and drk have.

then they can take the parry stat and overhaul it to be something completely different. like a defensive determination-like stat or whatever.

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I completely agree with this and expect it to go this route.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

1. they should.
2. the game is far larger than the 8 man content
3. if I wanted a game that was primarily about 8 man content (aka raiding) I would not be playing FFXIV.

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1. but they don't
2. and in that stuff your stats do not matter in the slightest
3. okay

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

1. but they don't
2. and in that stuff your stats do not matter in the slightest
3. okay

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OK, the game goes beyond 8-man end-game content. While the additional stats may not matter to YOU, they do matter to others. The game goes far beyond end-game and the core combat systems and stats should not be predicated on end-game. Quite the opposite.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Well, they could go all FFXI and make every single stat point count...

But on the topic of Parry, it would be very much appriciated if it were made better, at least for WAR and DRK, since they can't Block like PLDs can...

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Well, there is a price to be paid for being the most tanky, and that's having poorer DPS, on the flip side, having better DPS means you're a bit less tanky. Parry should be a useful stat for tanks, all tanks.

The only place where Parry (the secondary stat) is useful is in 4man dungeons doing big pulls as PLD to allow your healer an extra AOE GCD. That's it. It is useless everywhere else. We have been doing this since 2.0. It's not just worthless as an OT, it's worthless as a MT. Just. It's so bad.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

The only place where Parry (the secondary stat) is useful is in 4man dungeons doing big pulls as PLD to allow your healer an extra AOE GCD. That's it. It is useless everywhere else. We have been doing this since 2.0. It's not just worthless as an OT, it's worthless as a MT. Just. It's so bad.

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theoretically the stun of DRK has a 20% chance to reset his cd when you parry, wich is added damage and (if you spread the stuns around in a big pull because of stun resistance) added mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Tint

theoretically the stun of DRK has a 20% chance to reset his cd when you parry, wich is added damage and (if you spread the stuns around in a big pull because of stun resistance) added mitigation.

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Correct, since it also procs Reprisal, however stacking Parry only increases the likelyhood of that happening by a very marginal amount. It's also, as usual, useless when OTing.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Stats don't matter outside of 8 person content.

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Having blurted this absurd statement, I must challenge you to post a YouTube video of yourself running Level 60 dungeons with minimum iLevel gear and weapon.

Contrary to the talking points of the other forums that you had to have frequented, stats DO matter in EVERY situation.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Having blurted this absurd statement, I must challenge you to post a YouTube video of yourself running Level 60 dungeons with minimum iLevel gear and weapon.

Contrary to the talking points of the other forums that you had to have frequented, stats DO matter in EVERY situation.

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I think he meant to say "itemization," and the context kind of implies that.

If that's what he meant, he's right. Itemization doesn't matter outside of 8-man and 8-man Savage content.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Having blurted this absurd statement, I must challenge you to post a YouTube video of yourself running Level 60 dungeons with minimum iLevel gear and weapon.

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Are you implying that makes secondary stats somehow more important in 4man content? Because it doesn't. You can clear min ilvl 60 dungeons with full Parry, full Crit, full whatever.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

OK, the game goes beyond 8-man end-game content. While the additional stats may not matter to YOU, they do matter to others. The game goes far beyond end-game and the core combat systems and stats should not be predicated on end-game. Quite the opposite.

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What?

Either a stat matters or a stat doesn't matter and the main place that stats matter is in end-game 8-man content. Some stats are useless such as parry and to say that it might "matter to others" has no factual evidence behind it. This isn't glamour where a look can be considered better or worse depending on the viewer.

Also the idea that combat and stats should not be predicated on end-game goes against everything that currently exists in the game. You did not need to be in full i180 gear to beat Fractal Core. You did not need to be in full i240 gear to beat the latest Expert roulette dungeons. Sure, they make things go faster, but they weren't required in the slightest. Now Gordias Savage? You needed everything you could lay your hands on to meet the dps checks. Midas Savage? You still needed melded accessories if you were doing that at launch.

There is also nothing beyond endgame except the true endgame which is glamour. And stats don't matter for that.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

What?

Either a stat matters or a stat doesn't matter and the main place that stats matter is in end-game 8-man content. Some stats are useless such as parry and to say that it might "matter to others" has no factual evidence behind it. This isn't glamour where a look can be considered better or worse depending on the viewer.

Also the idea that combat and stats should not be predicated on end-game goes against everything that currently exists in the game. You did not need to be in full i180 gear to beat Fractal Core. You did not need to be in full i240 gear to beat the latest Expert roulette dungeons. Sure, they make things go faster, but they weren't required in the slightest. Now Gordias Savage? You needed everything you could lay your hands on to meet the dps checks. Midas Savage? You still needed melded accessories if you were doing that at launch.

There is also nothing beyond endgame except the true endgame which is glamour. And stats don't matter for that.

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Oh, well, i guess that if we aren't playing end game then we don't matter in your book. What an incredibly short sighted point of view. Posts like yours are why some plaYers consider end-game players to be elitist.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Oh, well, i guess that if we aren't playing end game then we don't matter in your book. What an incredibly short sighted point of view. Posts like yours are why some plaYers consider end-game players to be elitist.

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Can you expand on what you mean? Because from what I'm gathering you think that they should balance secondary stats around leveling and... end game I guess should be then balanced around that? Would that mean boosting secondary stats to really high amounts on leveling gear so that each piece felt like it made an impact?

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Can you expand on what you mean? Because from what I'm gathering you think that they should balance secondary stats around leveling and... end game I guess should be then balanced around that? Would that mean boosting secondary stats to really high amounts on leveling gear so that each piece felt like it made an impact?

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Then you are gathering wrongly. I am objecting to the stated opinions that secondary stats only matter for end game. I am saying that the entire game and its combat system should not be predicated by end game. End-game should naturally flow from the game. When people say that secondary stats don't matter outside of current end-game, they are in effect dismissing the rest of the game as being irrelevent (doesn't matter). If that's not elitist and dismissive, what is?

Secondary stats should matter at all levels and their impact should be weighted by the level difference between player and enemy. So a high level player against a low level mob should parry (for example) a lot more than a low level layer. A low level player up against a high level enemy should parry less often and less effectively. So a stat like parry should alter the base chance to parry, and this in turn should be modified by the relative level if player to enemy. That makes the stat relevant in all types of content, and in effect it lets players be trained by levelling content to create a decent stat build at each tier of content.

You don't boost stats to stupid numbers, you weight them based on comparative levels during combat.

Parry is only semi functional when dealing with large trash groups due to the amount if incoming auto attacks. However the iffy proc rate and lack of a stat cap pretty much negates the possible damage reduction even in that scenario. Even if the proc rate is the same increasing the damage mitigation cap to 35% 45% might make it have more of an impact on damage reduction. However Paladin benefits the most from that. Assuming that content isn't tied to parry value in the way accuracy is. Because even on most current tank gear parry seems to be the bare minimum for the most.

They could add more ability procs or timer resets, (example: Shield Block procs Shield Swipe, then random Parry resets Shield Swipe. Either a boosted Dark Dance dodge or Low Blow randomly resets reprisal) Good for Dark and Paladin but Warrior is left out. If they add an auto counter attack based on the parry stat. Warrior would either gain the most among the three tanks in dps or Samurai would likely be a tank similar to a Warrior+Dark. Either way like others have said they are looking at it, so we'll know when there's a live letter going over new things in 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Then you are gathering wrongly. I am objecting to the stated opinions that secondary stats only matter for end game. I am saying that the entire game and its combat system should not be predicated by end game. End-game should naturally flow from the game. When people say that secondary stats don't matter outside of current end-game, they are in effect dismissing the rest of the game as being irrelevent (doesn't matter). If that's not elitist and dismissive, what is?

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Alright, sorry for the misunderstanding. So your wording confused me a bit here, but I think (again, correct me if I'm wrong) you believe that secondary stats should matter while leveling up but currently do not. The reason I'm confused is I'm not entirely sure what you're objecting to specifically, and that's probably just ignorance on my part. Assuming I'm right here, I can agree with this, though it would require a lot of reworking of the system. The reason I brought up the absurd influx of secondary stat power for leveling up is that that's feasibly the only way any of the secondary stats could be relevant as they are in their current form. Right now there's basically no reason to pick and choose just as long as you're at an appropriate ilvl. As an example, if a piece of tank gear dropped for you in a dungeon and it was higher ilvl than your current one but had Parry on it, you'd still take it.

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Secondary stats should matter at all levels and their impact should be weighted by the level difference between player and enemy. So a high level player against a low level mob should parry (for example) a lot more than a low level layer. A low level player up against a high level enemy should parry less often and less effectively. So a stat like parry should alter the base chance to parry, and this in turn should be modified by the relative level if player to enemy. That makes the stat relevant in all types of content, and in effect it lets players be trained by levelling content to create a decent stat build at each tier of content.

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I'm not sure I follow here. Currently the Parry secondary stat does exactly what you describe - it increases your chance to Parry and that goes up linearly as you gain more Parry (might work in tiers, I forget the data on Parry since it's been so long since I've cared about it). However, it isn't modified based on the level difference between player and enemy... and I'm not sure why it would be. Like, I can't think of any situation where a high level player would be fighting low level mobs, and vice versa. I'm probably just missing something here, if you can clear up my confusion I'd really appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

To be fair, Crit is also entirely RNG based, and yet it is the best possible secondary to stack for most jobs.

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Critical hit is RNG based, but the secondary stat itself contributes directly to Strength, thereby increasing your damage. That is why Crit and Det are so valued.

Parry, as a secondary stat, is worthless to everyone because it's mitigation you cannot plan around. If I'm the main tank, I can't rely on parrying a tank buster because if RNG fails me, I'll likely die. AST had a similar issue when it first released; relying on heavy RNG. It largely saw little use in Gordias due to that same unreliability.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I am objecting to the stated opinions that secondary stats only matter for end game. I am saying that the entire game and its combat system should not be predicated by end game.

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What should be and what are are two different things. You are arguing with people that stats in this game matter before endgame (and you're being pretty abrasive about it, as well). But they don't. Perhaps they SHOULD matter, but the sad fact is that they currently do not. And this seems to be a big goal of the devs. Anytime stats start to matter in pre-endgame content, SE steps in and nerfs it, hard, such as when healers started to have accuracy difficulties in higher level dungeons.

As it stands, as long as you meet the ilvl requirements for a dungeon, you can win it. It might take longer, but it's certainly far from impossible.

Personally, I'd love to see stats take on a bigger role in more of the game, but as it is stats only start to make a win-or-lose difference once you start getting into endgame content. It's not realistic to expect the devs to shift gears on that stance, either; they've made it pretty clear that pre-endgame is ez-mode that even a player throwing on random bits of whatever cheap trash gear they can find would be able to finish.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Critical hit is RNG based, but the secondary stat itself contributes directly to Strength, thereby increasing your damage. That is why Crit and Det are so valued.

Parry, as a secondary stat, is worthless to everyone because it's mitigation you cannot plan around. If I'm the main tank, I can't rely on parrying a tank buster because if RNG fails me, I'll likely die. AST had a similar issue when it first released; relying on heavy RNG. It largely saw little use in Gordias due to that same unreliability.

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Crit itself does not contribute directly to damage, aside from the boost it gives to those critical hits. ALL of Crit's stat weight is due to the additional damage provided by the critical hits it causes, and those critical hits are RNG. I scratched my head when you claimed that the stat itself contributes to damage in some way aside from additional critical hits, but a Google search set my mind at ease; while there were a few people who claimed as you did, they were quickly corrected by others posting in the threads they were in. The Critical Hit Rate stat has no affect on non-crit damage, in any way.

Determination is a completely different story - it explicitly improves damage of all kinds. You're describing crit as though it were det with some extra critical hits tacked on - and that's just not the case.

BUT assuming you were right, that doesn't mean that Parry couldn't be retooled to work the same way. Giving crit a bonus to damage outside of extra critical hits is a totally arbitrary decision to make. It's not intuitive, it's not in the stat description, and no one should be expecting it. So why not do it for Parry, as well? Give a damage boost just for stacking Parry, even if it makes no sense. Because, to be honest, giving crit a damage boost not related to crits also makes no sense.

yeah but higher crit means higher chance to crit AND more damage when it does, parry just does crap 20% all day everyday now. it used to have strength % damage blocked, they could treat it like crit, and increase the damage percent mitigated while increasing the rate, but theyd have to really loosen up on the rediculous amount of parry required to push it to even 1 percent chance increase.