Skillchain Concept For XIV

SkillChain Reborn Concept Discussion
I would love to see the skillchain system be real time and accessible at all times. But certain properties of the current combat system might prevent this from happening.

I am asking for feedback here. I want the system to promote party synergy, prevent abuse, and make sure the cost of playing in synergy vastly outweighs ignoring it for those brief seconds. Secondly, I want you to help me come up with a visible and intuitive way that a player can easily communicate and read what skills to use to properly to execute skillchains and magic burst.

A pro for FFXI in comparison to all other mmorpgs with party synergy combos in it. FFXI was the only one where you could do most common weaponskills and spells to achieve it, it added complexity to the combat and a sense of comradery, and it added a fun aspect. A con was it was poorly balanced around light and dark being too powerful in comparison to the others and there was no visible and intuitive way to communicate and read execution other than text chat. Please help me flesh out an idea for the best party synergy system ever created.


Building The Ultimate SkillChain System
All modern MMO games have one serious weakness: every player in a party receives equal share of experience and gold regardless his impact into the fight. The reward system in all MMOs does not stimulate players to exert oneself. You can act well or not to act at all. Sometimes you can see a lazy player who just sneaks around and receives experience and gold or clears without even trying to participate in the group’s action. I see FFXIV changing the situation.

Introducing Proficiency
Proficiency is a special resource in FFXIV that gives you several valuable benefits. To accumulate it you must perform well in combat. You receive Proficiency for successful combos , successful blocking, interrupting, attacking, dodging the red, and other actions. It is an indicator of how good you are. Your proficiency build up from each fight depends on the amount of proficiency acquired during an encounter.

Proficiency rewards increase proportionally to the complexity of the fight and your proper actions during the fight. If you use your skills in time, and react quick you receive proficiency points. So you are interested in getting as many proficiency as you can because you can access the skillchain system more often.

Direct rewards are great but it is only one side of proficiency benefits. Proficiency points are earned through participating in combat but they also help you to defeat enemies quicker. Each class has its unique limit breaks allowing huge variety of special attacks, summons or other actions. They are powerful and can be recharged only by accumulating Proficiency. The more proficiency you receive the quicker you recharge your Proficiency meter which grants access to skillchains at the more common level and limit breaks on the higher scale.


How to earn more Proficiency points?
Master your class and try to react according to situation. Interrupt enemies, use synergy, use your defensive buffs at the right time, dodge the red and do all you can to maximize your efficiency.

Enchained System
I would love to see the skillchain system be real time and accessible at all times. But certain properties of the current combat system might prevent this from happening. The enchained system is a proposal I put forward if you think real time at all times would mess up the meta too much.

Gaining proficiency will fill up a secondary meter besides the Limit Break Bar called the Enchained Bar. Upon filling the Enchained bar the enemy is susceptible to skillchains and magic burst. Upon gaining enchained status and releasing/activating the bar. For 30 Seconds, all GCD and personal skill combinations are removed,TP/MP cost are increased by 20%, damage is increased by 20% for successive skillchains and magic burst for the duration for all party members who successfully use the Enchained system and skilchain and magic burst. The meta during the stagger sequence is party synergy and dynamics versus personal player glory like the Limit Break system or Character rotations.

I would personally prefer to see skillchains be real time and available at any time. If that is not possible then this Enchained System would allows sequences in short spurts outside the normal combat meta

The Skillchain Rules

1. Each user succeeding a user in the skillchain and magic burst timeline has 6 seconds to effectively skillchain or magic burst.
2. Any finisher skillchain can be executed by as many players that react to the initiated skillchain in time.
3. Any magic burst can be executed by as many players that react to the finisher skillchain in time.
4. Any weaponskill used that does not resonate with the initiated skillchain, the finisher skillchain that follows, or the magic burst that follows the finisher will neither proc increased potencies on the current skillchain or interrupt others chance to finish the current skillchain.
5. Successfully making group skillchains and burst can extend the default enchained timer by 5 seconds each successful skillchain and burst increasing the duration of enchained to an additional 30 seconds maximum.

How the Skillchain 2.0 System Works in Practice

• Every weaponskill will have a resonating property(the initiator sequence) which will be color coded hotbars to indicate what chain is being started or what property is used upon activating a weaponskill
  
• Certain weaponskills will combo with the initiator’s weaponskill, the second weaponskill in the chain is called the finisher.Which will be color coded hotbars to indicate what chain is being finished. An appropriate icon will pop up after a character initiates a skillchain for any players with weaponskills indicating what skills synergize with the initiated skillchain. The player who attempts a finisher skillchain has 6 seconds after the initiator skillchain has been activated to effectively skillchain.
  
• If a mage is present certain spells will combo(magic burst) with a skillchain created by the initiator and finisher provided the elemental properties of the skillchain and magic burst align.The spell icons in a magic users hotbars will also be color coded to indicate what magic burst synergize with the skillchain built by the weapon skillers. An appropriate icon will pop up in the users field of view indicating what type of spells synergize with the finished skillchain. The player who attempts a magic burst has 6 seconds after the finisher skillchain has been activated to effectively burst.

The Visual Guide To How I propose Skillchains in game

1. These are the skillchain properties.
2. Every Skill available on your hotbar has a color code signifying the skillchain property it is aligned with.
3. You can see how each skillchain element has it's own color signatures.

http://i.imgur.com/7eCCPtA.jpg

1. This how you start a skillchain with hotbar explanations called the Skillchain Initiator.
2. If you use a Brown Color Coded skill you would begin a Scission Skillchain.
3. Anyone following you in the skillchain timeline with a finisher would have to use a skill that resonates with the scission properties in that circumstance, in other words a skill the same color.

http://i.imgur.com/ZvsvIM7.jpg

1. This is how you close a chain with icon explanations called the Skillchain Finisher.
2. When you see one of these Finisher Icons on screen you will have 6 seconds to execute a finisher in the appropriate attribute.
3. A Finisher Icon appears on screen following a skillchain initiator before it in the timeline.

http://i.imgur.com/SpjFoUd.jpg

1. This is how you Magic Burst off a skillchain with icon explanations.
2. When you see one of these Burst Icons on screen you will have 6 seconds to burst after the finisher skillchain executes.
3. Your magic burst must be aligned with the same skillchain properties as the initiator and finisher skillchain before it.
4. In other words, the spell must be color coded with the same color.

http://i.imgur.com/L6dMrW5.jpg

This is how a skillchain initiator looks in game.

http://i.imgur.com/wwtOV0p.jpg

This is how a skillchain finisher looks in game.

http://i.imgur.com/SOBfm3u.jpg

This is how a Magic Burst looks in game.

http://i.imgur.com/F5MTlbv.jpg

Also it has been awhile since I actively used the FFXI skillchain system so I may lack some knowledge about it. I purposely renamed one of the properties to Combustion in the level 1 chains because I thought it sounded cooler.

Unfortunately, one of the fundamental aspects of FFXI's Skillchain system and thus, the concept you've developed (that is, elemental damage) is utterly useless here given the fact the elemental wheel is neutered. So a weaponskill's element would be nothing but for dramatic effect. Besides, SE did have a sort-of skillchain system in FFXIV 1.0, called 'Battle Regimen'... which didn't work as well as it should have, so it was scrapped when Yoshi took over and redesigned 1.0's battle system to something more similar to what we have now.

Another problem that was particularly notorious in FFXI with this system was the fact it fostered 'job favouritism' for the aforementioned element-bonus. Certain Jobs were used to exploit the magic burst effect and certain Jobs that could make use of certain weaponskills, and other Jobs were ignored. FFXIV's system is designed specifically to stop Job favouritism, so the magic burst system simply would not work here.

Also your idea is not too different to the current weaponskill combo system we have, only made far more complicated (perhaps unnecessarily so) - why make things more complicated simply for the sake of complication? Given the game is designed specifically for new players and those of more moderate skill, over-complicating things just goes against this idea I'm afraid. Your concept was well thought out, but sadly, for these reasons, I don't see such a system ever being implemented I'm sorry.

• You are seriously great at making these graphical illustrations.

• I'm guessing Proficiency was based on the "Finesse" system from... ESO, was it? Brain-fart, my apologies.

I have to say, I'm not a fan of proficiency award systems, if only because they inevitably tell you how you should play, punishing the player for any unconventional or more extreme playstyles. Often the very things that can make a composition interesting, systems like this can tear down. Put simply, they are too often wrong, and much too often stale.

In other ways, and I mean this much neutrally, it can directly conflict with the similar methods we have of similar fudging the LB. If you ever stacked for extra damage taken on a Bahamut's T5 Plummets, or had your BLM run up to the tank with Manawall to take would-be critical damage from T9 Nael's Dragonfire Dive, you should know how these little bits likewise have a nostalgia of their own. You would now be likely be punished for such gimmicks, just as you might for Holmgang-ing a tank-buster rather than mitigating it, etc. Even if the system could determine who all dodged a given AoE (checking players in the targeted zone originally vs. those hit by it), how is it to award you for spreading out as to reduce raid movement necessary when a single player is targeted by one? How is it to award you for finding the proper balance the number of people involved in splitting an AoE and the amount of people (those hit) affected by the AoE's debuff (which cannot be split)? While designing a system that can do all that may be theoretically possible, it also seems absolutely unnecessary. Let the mechanics, balance, the players, and success itself be the judge.

• I don't think there's any need necessarily for an Enchained system, but there is certainly clash with the rotational meta. For one, most classes only have 1-4 actual weaponskill or offensive Spell options in a given moment. Any combo class has no choice of ability mid-combo. A Monk can only choose from among its choices in stance (Dragon Kick, Bootshine, or Arm of the Destroyer; Twin Snakes, True Strike, or One I'lm Punch; etc.). A BLM isn't likely to end its AF burn phase early just to initiate or join an Ice chain. Numbers given, there's little point in reapplying a DoT early just to apply a particular element. Elemental choices are already highly limited, highly concentrated. And most weaponskills, frankly, don't seem at all related to any sort of element.

To continue with the BLM example, those original rotation confines of AF and UI strings mean that your BLMs are either going to need to maintain a particular rhythm together (which could be a fun bit of gameplay, if not for how few the internal options are by which to usefully compromise phase timings) and other casters are probably going to have to match themselves to their pace. WHMs could hold off briefly on their DoTs in order to stoke the fires with their wind magics, punctuating the burn phase with a magic burst (again, not bad when envisioned in glimpse). Worse perhaps, you have the utterly unaspected Arcanist and its jobs. That could work to your advantage, such as by being the one type who can boost any element's chain (but can burst none, except perhaps by overfilling it or whatever spitball extra concept one might imagine). Not necessarily bad, but potentially very different, but where the best way to use the new system is probably to try to make it as similar as possible to the way things were already done.

The harder part will be the physical classes, especially the combo users. oGCDs may be necessary, allowing a supporting player to time an initiator to the start of another's combo. Alternatively, combos themselves could be considered some sort of unaspected weaponskill boost, meaning that the only real controllers of the skillchain would be the Bards' choice of Heavy Shot vs. Straight Shot, the Monks' choice of DK vs. BS, Twin vs. True vs. 1lm, and so forth. But that hardly sounds compelling.

That said, the last thing I feel an additional mechanic like this needs is to swap between metas like some sort of quick-time event. (Especially when the mechanic itself might not seem to do any more than that... See below.)

• The Skill Chain Rules provide a solid enough compromise in that there is seemingly only one initiator, one finisher, and one burst, a maximum of three steps. Any number players being able to react within the 6 seconds means that no one can take the better use of the initiated skill chain, but it also means that, resources willing, everyone in the party should be making use of every initiator. And with 6 seconds, two and a half to three GCDs, there is very likely time to do so. With only one progression path and only progression skills counted, no one can potentially ruin a chain by typal error, either.

However, there are two negatives on the opposite face. The first is that this means you can only use a chain every 12 seconds, or slower, because of the guaranteed 6 seconds' skillchain and 6 seconds' burst time. (Or can one of each opportunity be up simultaneously? If so, then per 6 seconds.) I suspect that's a non-issue to you, given that you were thinking of adding a limiter to the systems use anyways via Enchained?

The larger problem is that this keeps the system shallow. With only one progression direction, or only one possible "answer", there's no element of choice. Moreover, with those 6 seconds, there's almost no way that the whole party to will fail to answer in time, regardless of how poor coordination may be. They could likely turn off the skill-chain UI and keep on chaining regardless. If not, the meta would probably quickly accept only those chains for which that could be done unless intentionally crafted otherwise. Gameplay is almost irrelevant to how the system pans out. You might as well have a chance on hit to deal bonus damage.

P.S. I'll try to give a counter-proposal that might approach what you're looking for without hitting these issues when I can. That may have to wait until late tomorrow though.

Not sure if it needs to be skill chains, but I would like more OPTIONAL layers added so I have more to pay attention to.

I'd like something that has me reacting to my teammates rotations like in the OP. That isn't necessary to meet win conditions unless it's end game raiding. And something if you practice it makes dungeons ect faster but by no means needed to beat a dungeon.

Alright, counter-proposal:

First, if all you're really looking for are more reasons to differentiate your rotations based on other players, that much can be done through adjustments to rotations and their skills, without any need for an new system. What will likely appear to be done over all rotations is to slight de-optomize the optimal rotation, making other (albeit equally purposed and cohesive) rotations less inferior; in actuality it will be exact other rotations brought to the fore. Simply put, it will be intended emergence; you're trying to adjust pay-offs and rotations such that composition can have an effect. Effects shared between multiple classes are a good start for this. Some of the worst for this are skills with differing priorities or varying in raid-shared to personal effects that are necessarily linked (Disembowel and Chaos Thrust); as long as Chaos Thrust retains such massive damage, this makes it very difficult for one Dragoon's Disembowel to allow any other a different rotation; they must go through Disembowel, themselves, to reach Chaos Thrust, which they can scarcely afford to let drop, anyways. Consider how many of these jobs with such rotations or gameplay that are problematic for compositional variance have problems perceived in the same skills for different reasons. (For instance, could changes to Whirling Thrust and Fang & Claw, making them less identical and/or less rigidly timed, fix these both the compositional-independence and issues more widely perceived, without creating new issues?)

With enough such changes, you may well see that jobs individually better appeal to their players, while players are each much more interested in what others of the same job or with any shared effects are doing. This won't have the same broad effects as a universal system, but it may well have a greater burden of knowledge and carry a greater feeling of needing to know the playstyle of your partnered characters; the fact that this direct, potentially rotation-affecting bond exists only with certain classes may also be perceived as deepened identity.

...

But if that's not enough, and you really do want that new system to shake things up...

Let me append three major conditions.

1. There must be reasonable excuse and impetus for the system's addition. Otherwise, it feels like an admitted mistake, rather than added content (in the way of systemic gameplay). This can be a theme for a new expansion, for instance, or a new (rather than a retake in) announced gameplay direction, etc.

2. If a system that would adjust gameplay is to be used universally, then the changes to universal gameplay to support it must in themselves feel beneficial and progressive.

3. If the system is to be used tactically (in the sense of choosing to save opportunities for greater opportunities), it will need a limiter; this can be through windows, a resource, limited triggering events, conflict with general rotations, or whatever else.

[I'm not saying you lack any of these conditions. This is just how my mind works, from where I start, and how I move forward. I set parameters for what is and is not good design going forward, as to reduce time spent backtracking.]


Two major design paths — coexistable and synergistic, but still separable —

1. Increased job synergies through:

• Adjustments to certain universal systems, including:

• Mob AI - I leave to your imagination
• Enmity - Resultant to above, enmity is no longer a flat numeric measure; positioning, timing, phases, actions, and types of action may all affect enmity. The first is especially important in terms of coordination.
• Accuracy - The +/- 5% damage spread has been moved to Accuracy, while Accuracy now determines the % of base damage that will actually be dealt. Missing accuracy exponentially decreases damage. This is important primarily due to below.
• RNG mitigation - Dodges, blocks, and parries may now stack with each other and are no provide flat % mitigation alone. They are now primarily based on AP, each performing a different role that synergizes well with the others during any simultaneous procs.
• Evasion skills - a new 'rating' system has been added, by which evasion skills, such as Featherfoot or Keen Flurry, can (1) supply a given eHP over their duration, and may (2) base consumption of that Evasion-based eHP on the %HP of would-be damage. This means that a Featherfoot can be reliably used to avoid all or part of a Wicked Wheel, for instance, making the option of using such defensive skills more decisive, tactical, and reliable.
• Interception - most mob cleaves now split their damage to some extent, and most charged or ranged attacks can be intercepted. Certain skills are immune to interception except by players or units under certain effects (e.g. Cover, Shelltron, Bulwark, Keen Flurry, Shadow Wall, Dark Mind). This adjusts the tank gameplay style from purely stacking enmity and meat-shielding attacks to someone who actively thwarts enemy offensive attempts. Better yet, almost anyone can now to some degree cover for someone else; DPS may be expected in many cases to help save the tank by splitting damage on numerous attacks.
• "Debuff potency" - many debuffs now provide a particular potency of effect, which translates to a given percentage and/or chance of success based on the target's stats affected, rather than being the same flat percent on all enemies. This allows for no-cooldown, stackable, and/or non-DR debuffs with balanced levels of power.

• Adjustments to jobs and rotations.

• Certain skill sets have been adjusted to receive greater benefit from shared debuffs.
• Certain skill sets have been adjusted to be capable of a greater range of rotations and timings.
• New, support-themed elements have been added to certain job identities.

• Arcanists are now masters of magic manipulation. While incapable of producing Elemental or "Greater Path" magic of their own, they are able to source, well, and to some degree combine the magics of others.
• Though still as considerable a DPS as ever, the Bard now has increased control over its support spell effects.
• The Machinist now has additional functionality rooted in its engineer elements that can provide more specific synergy within its own gameplay and in support of others'.
• The Astrologian has made something unique out of its concept of the globe and its two Sects, much more fully embracing its elements of the Time Mage and such previously flavor mechanics as the "theoretical sun" and gravity. Its combinations with the Arcanist, especially, can lead to some very obscure and deadly emergent combinations through one's ability to well, pool, and transfer magic and the other's ability to attract, accelerate, and delay it.

2. New "Elemental" system.

[Work in progress]

Ok let me ask what you mean by the three conditions. Sorry If I seem dense, it's late and I'm tired.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

1. There must be reasonable excuse and impetus for the system's addition. Otherwise, it feels like an admitted mistake, rather than added content (in the way of systemic gameplay). This can be a theme for a new expansion, for instance, or a new (rather than a retake in) announced gameplay direction, etc.

2. If a system that would adjust gameplay is to be used universally, then the changes to universal gameplay to support it must in themselves feel beneficial and progressive.

3. If the system is to be used tactically (in the sense of choosing to save opportunities for greater opportunities), it will need a limiter; this can be through windows, a resource, limited triggering events, conflict with general rotations, or whatever else.

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This game made it's turn around by admitting mistakes. I am not saying not having a skillchain system is a mistake. But if it could be done right, I think it would draw in more FF fans who are used to synergistic party play, that's basically 90% of Final Fantasies.

What kind of beneficial existing game traits could be changed to feel progressive?

Yes that resource is why I have the option for the Proficiency awards, it's the resource builder. And the limited trigger event is the Enchained System. I'd prefer it not to need to rely on the Enchained system but Idk how it could be done real time and not mess up the current personal rotation meta.

While a nice system, I feel the game simply should have made LB bars separate to each player, and each player had to "perform" better in each fight, to build the bar up, those who were ready, comboed their LBs together at the same time (within a window of 8 seconds or so)

Keeping it simple enough, yet more complex than the current system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

While a nice system, I feel the game simply should have made LB bars separate to each player, and each player had to "perform" better in each fight, to build the bar up, those who were ready, comboed their LBs together at the same time (within a window of 8 seconds or so)

Keeping it simple enough, yet more complex than the current system.

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SE didn't do that in the first place because it would be too easy to abuse. Also I would like to see a party synergy system that is used more frequently rather than once or twice an encounter. And a system that takes more factors into account than LB is up. I think I made my illustration pretty simple, it is not that complex with the indicators. If you had to go outside the game to learn party combos, I would understand then.

I applaud your efforts but I highly doubt any of your ideas will ever happen.

Someone posted an image that summed up SE pretty well but I don't know where it was. (Someone suggested creative content in a SE meeting and they got thrown out a window.)

Why? Because of the elemental properties in this game or some other reason? Guild Wars 2 has it's own party combos which take position into account which I think is harder on servers and Elder Scrolls Online has an indicator system with synergy party combos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

Why? Because of the elemental properties in this game or some other reason? Guild Wars 2 has it's own party combos which take position into account which I think is harder on servers and Elder Scrolls Online has an indicator system with synergy party combos.

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If an elemental system was added. Pretty much every class, monster and duty would need to be reworked, they're not going to do that.

I am not proposing the Elemental wheel come into this game. This SC system is only if you have a color attuned hotbar you can skillchain or burst, one effect isn't greater than the other per say.

Ha made my own, was something like this.

https://i.imgflip.com/18thgt.jpg

lol great creation there

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Genaxx

If an elemental system was added. Pretty much every class, monster and duty would need to be reworked, they're not going to do that.

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What if most classes, monsters, and duties could already use rework, and an elemental system happened to be a cohesive means or parallel of introducing those changes? We're already seeing a lot of concern about the long-term possibilities, and limitations thereto, displayed by the systems we have, classes, monsters, and duties often being chief categories for those issues' examples.

Not saying it needs to happen, or even that, in anything like the means suggested here, that it ought to be implemented at all. But if an idea does eventually strike gold, and fits the design model desirable for the future of the game, then it shouldn't be thrown out just because it needs surrounding changes. At that point it becomes the perfect excuse for them, in the way that good writing includes its necessary details while seeming wholly natural. What is really a lot of deliberation, reiteration, and fine detail work comes off as a unified, attractive addition.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

What if most classes, monsters, and duties could already use rework, and an elemental system happened to be a cohesive means or parallel of introducing those changes? We're already seeing a lot of concern about the long-term possibilities, and limitations thereto, displayed by the systems we have, classes, monsters, and duties often being chief categories for those issues' examples.

Not saying it needs to happen, or even that, in anything like the means suggested here, that it ought to be implemented at all. But if an idea does eventually strike gold, and fits the design model desirable for the future of the game, then it shouldn't be thrown out just because it needs surrounding changes. At that point it becomes the perfect excuse for them, in the way that good writing includes its necessary details while seeming wholly natural. What is really a lot of deliberation, reiteration, and fine detail work comes off as a unified, attractive addition.

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I 100% agree with you, however I don't see this rework happening anytime soon, if at all.

The biggest issue with skill chains is weapon skill spam in my opinion. 6 people are smacking something to all holy hell by smashing buttons as quickly as they can, nearly the entire fight. How anyone can set up a skill chain...it would be insanity. It worked in FFXI because you had to build up to it. I wish they, along with elemental buff/debuffs were in the game, but sadly they ruined it.

Eso is pretty fast paced as well and I manage Synergy pretty easy there. Only difference here is it's more than one step. A visual indicator attuned to a color is displayed on screen. You either connect the dots or ignore the dots. Slightly easier encounter management if you do pull it off.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-BiGJXPaedM/maxresdefault.jpg

I am a little apprehensive when it comes to adding FFXI's battle elements into this game, I really enjoyed 11 and would hate to see this implemented and made into something different (which ultimately would be the case).

I had a similar idea like this one for group synergy but it used the 1.0's version of skillchaining...though I am a little reluctant to start threads...

Back on topic, the ideas are really nostalgic, but for the sake of being disappointed in the implementation, I do hope they find another avenue to create group synergy, which isn't hard, I think they have the basic building blocks for it.