Job Tweak Suggestions DPS Roles

Hello there, I was wondering if this would be reasonable future job tweaks before 4.0 release. Tell me what you think. I really hope the staff of Final Fantasy XIV sees this.

Black Mage:
Astral Fire - Before: 12 seconds. After: 15 seconds.
Manawall - Now nullifies physical damage up to 30% of maximum HP.

Dragoon:
Heavy Thrust - Now increases damage dealt by 15% for 27 seconds.
Elusive Jump - Now has it's cooldown decreased to 60 seconds.
Ring of Thorns - Combo action removed and now does 120 potency and TP cost increased to 140.

Bard:
The Wanderer's Minuet - Now increases damage dealt by 35%.

Machinist:
Gauss Barrel - Now increases damage dealt by 35%.
Heartbreak - Cooldown is now 15 seconds.
Suppressive Fire - Range is now increased to 25 yards.

Ninja: Sneak Attack & Trick Attack, no longer share a cooldown.
Hide - No longer reduces movement speed.

Why is there no context behind any of the changes? None of them make sense. There's literally no room for discussion here without some explanation lol

Can't see any reason to change NINs SA and TA so that they don't share cooldown, SA is used when solo and TA when in group, never going to be in the front while in raid content 90% of the time anyways.

Damage buff for both BRD and MCH is uneeded not going to change anything balance wise.

HT for DRG, don't even think it's going to change anything rotation wide, it was changed to fit the new additions to combo and they already have 3 gap closers so shorter CD on elusive isn't going to change much either. With a TP cost of 140 and potency of 120 it's going to be an even less reason to use it over Doom spike which has a 1:1 ratio.

Manawall I can kinda see but isn't in any large need of change either. Astral Fire change wouldn't change that much either considering how easy it is to reapply.

No. Stop it.

None of these are needed. They provide no game play changes to the jobs and lack any context.

I am glad to see people's opinions on my thread here :D These are just my personal opinions on what I would like to see in patch notes before the launch of 4.0. I don't think these tweaks would ruin the Jobs or overpower them in anyway at all. I honestly think the Jobs would feel more balanced and never needing another tweak until after patch 4.0 in my opinion. Keep the comments coming, I would like to see what others think of my opinions on this. :D

Machinist:
- Reload/Quick-Reload: no timer for ammunition-stacks
- Gauss Round: Add piercing-damage

Those are not tweak but cheat
There would be no fun to have the good and no bad

The manawall up could be an idea
But 15sec of astral/umbral ? Is that a joke ? We got from 10 to 12 and it's a huuuge improvment and you expect more ?
Why 15 ? Is there a use of those 3sec more ? 12 is sufficient for all fight

Mch and brd
Up to 35% ?!
30% was the double of the beginning and you ask for even more ? XD

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Clearly dead no for all the proposed changes

I would like to see Manawall's shield upped to 21% and it's CD reduced to 58 seconds.

Seriously tho, you need to give some reasoning behind why you think these should be changed or whatever, just picking numbers out the air makes it a bit tough to discuss.

Why the increase to AF? if it's to make the current fire rotation easier to fit in, well I don't think this will work... the rotation would likely change anyway if AF were increased. The highest pps rotation will always fit in as many casts as possible under AF before switching to UI at the last possible moment.

Why the increase to Wall, other than aesthetics to match Ward. I could understand if you thought maybe they should be switched, as BLM naturally has lower physical resistance or something?

Wow I like ideas you guys are showing me :D I would like to see what others would want to see in future patch notes before patch 4.0!

I'd like to see MCH turret affected by our self-buffs and other things we do to ourselves, more. They learned this lesson with SMN pets like, a year ago? It's like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing on SE's Dev team.

yeah lets make BLM even better and SMN even more irrelevent in raid content

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

Why is there no context behind any of the changes? None of them make sense. There's literally no room for discussion here without some explanation lol

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The NIN one makes a lot of sense. When you do you ever use Sneak Attack in group content? And when is solo content difficult enough that you'd "need" sneak attack? Almost everything can be stunned (even a lot of FATE bosses can be slept on BLM) to enable trick attack anyway.

Stealth is absolutely awful in its current implementation. That's one ability that could use a lot of tweaking as well. Most MMOs with stealth grant you some bonus related to movement as you level up, from Ultima Online's taking more steps while hidden to more recent MMO's increase of movement speed. It's found some obscure semblance of use in PotD, but otherwise, there's no content in the game frightening enough for stealth to be useful, and most overworld things at 60 can just be flown over.

I'd honestly rework NIN so that stealth wasn't required for SA, and SA was moved to a once per minute ability with a rear positional like TA has. TA would still function with stealth requirement / ninjutsu requirement. But I see no reason to have the equivalent of a rogue's backstab (with a ridiculous frontal requirement) just sit unused in 99% of the game's content.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I'd honestly rework NIN so that stealth wasn't required for SA, and SA was moved to a once per minute ability with a rear positional like TA has. TA would still function with stealth requirement / ninjutsu requirement. But I see no reason to have the equivalent of a rogue's backstab (with a ridiculous frontal requirement) just sit unused in 99% of the game's content.

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Suiton says hi. Also Sneak attack does just fine as solo burst damage; it's not like anything lasts long enough for you to necessitate a 10% damage debuff. Stealth has always been a niche mechanic in mmos, this is no exception. The only real exception is PvP, and we know how PvP is in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Super_Smiley

Hello there, I was wondering if this would be reasonable future job tweaks before 4.0 release. Tell me what you think. I really hope the staff of Final Fantasy XIV sees this.

Black Mage:
Astral Fire - Before: 12 seconds. After: 15 seconds.
Manawall - Now nullifies physical damage up to 30% of maximum HP.

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Astral Fire and Umbral Ice have already been extended from 10 seconds to 12. I think that is plentiful as is. One concession I would be fine with making though is if AF and UI were 12.5s and granted on cast, rather than on hit, meaning that you could generate AF/UI against invincible targets, or that skills that remove AF or UI do not do so if the attack does not deal damage.

I'm fine with Manawall as it is. Preferably, I'd love for it to return to its old form, in part, absorbing all of a single physical attack regardless of its damage, and then additional attacks to a total of 30% HP. (Yes, the initial attack detracts from the cap, but the damage prevention on the first attack cannot be ended early because of the cap.)

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Dragoon:
Heavy Thrust - Now increases damage dealt by 15% for 27 seconds.
Elusive Jump - Now has it's cooldown decreased to 60 seconds.
Ring of Thorns - Combo action removed and now does 120 potency and TP cost increased to 140.

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The Heavy Thrust change would only serve to mess with current rotations and make the skill even more stupidly strong.'
I'm all for a Elusive Jump CD reduction to make it feel like a real movement CD. However, 90s would probably be plenty frequent. Some change to the enmity drop component may be necessary.
I see no reason for the RoT change. You'll default to DS as long as you can get the majority of mobs into the linear AoE, anyways. The combo action was one of the few means of variance. I'd like to see more rotational reasons to use it, not fewer. Though more TP efficient per HT, it still remains far inferior to HT-RoT-DS spam, which would then be simplified to HT-DS spam.

(1260 AoE potency (and 170 ST potency) per HT at 1300 TP cost [.96], from the original 950 AoE potency (and 170 ST potency) per HT at 1150 TP cost [.83], where both are inferior in damage to HT-(RoT)-DS spam's up to 1430 or 1440 AoE potency (and 170 ST potency) per HT at 1470 or 1510 TP cost [.97 or .95] and inferior in efficiency to HT-RoT-DS spam.

That said, I can see why you might want a your circular AoE to be more competitive against Ninja's in damage or efficiency per HT (in which NIN fits an extra AoE global by nature of needing no buff, and almost another two via Huton, atop a 5% stronger damage modifier). That said, that won't be possible without massively adjusting the internal (vs. DS and Geirskogul) and external balance (vs. NIN/MNK/etc.) of RoT. NIN's AoE is wholly spammable and has positive TP efficiency, whereas DS is neutral at best and would be made irrelevant if RoT were always to be nearly as good.

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Bard:
The Wanderer's Minuet - Now increases damage dealt by 35%.

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This would remove what few reasons we have to stance-dance, an aspect I happen to enjoy. At present, WM must make up for ~500 potency of AA damage over its duration, or approximately 80 per WM GCD. At 30%, that requires at least 266.67 potency within the GCD. Either DoT does this, as does any combination of weaponskill and Bloodletter, while Straighter Shot alone and HS/SS paired with RS/BA fall just short. At 35%, only 228.57 potency would be needed, making even Heavy Shot and Repelling Shot (230 potency) WM-preferable.

Of course, in the end, stance-dancing still comes down to the actual timing of the AAs, an element of planning vs. the risk of Bloodletter procs. But I'd rather see Bard more able to stance-dance than have virtually nothing to lose from staying in WM.

I'd rather reduce the lock-in duration of WM to 3 to 4 GCDs (7 or 9s, scaling with skill speed), or revise the mechanic completely.

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Machinist:
Gauss Barrel - Now increases damage dealt by 35%.
Heartbreak - Cooldown is now 15 seconds.
Suppressive Fire - Range is now increased to 25 yards.

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See above for issue with GB change. At present, stance-dancing is both relatively reliable and a significant bonus to a MCH. I'd rather not diminish that. If anything, I'd rather see AAs go off instantly after leaving GB/WM.

The change to Heartbreak makes it too similar to Misery's End, imo. If not for the PvP concerns, I'd say to buff the damage, if anything, or cause it to instantly finish off the target if up to an additional, say, 40% Heartbreak damage would have done so. (e.g. a Deathstroke passive), grant minor attack power or TP restore on Overkill/Killing Blow, etc, or have its cooldown reduced with every kill. Something that increases its interest, rather than just its frequency.

The current 5-yalm range of Suppressive Fire (not to mention its icon) does seem more like a mob execution than its animation and effect would seem to match. That said, I like that it forces the MCH to come closer if it is to do what was originally impossible to ranged (a stun, rather than a mere silence). That said, 8 to 15 yalms a decent range. 8 or 9 would be a midpoint between melee and Quick Nock range, 12 Quick Nock range, and any more than 15 wouldn't feel like you're approaching at all.

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Ninja: Sneak Attack & Trick Attack, no longer share a cooldown.
Hide - No longer reduces movement speed.

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At that point you may as well place a cooldown on using either Sneak Attack or Trick Attack FROM Suiton (Call it Mistbreak, Cloak and Dagger, or what have you), and remove the cooldowns on the two Attacks entirely, making NIN a leveling God in combination with your change to Hide. Or, let me wipe off that drool briefly, be reasonable and partly share CDs so that you have reason to balance out usage, without just outright alternating the two. I like the idea of the Hide change, or at least reducing the movement penalty to 33% or less, but the first idea has major PvE dps repercussions. NIN is already the highest contributor to raid DPS in most comps. It shouldn't be buffed arbitrarily, or especially by oversights.

Without that Suiton-based cooldown to bottle-neck it, however, that would be a truly massive oGCD damage buff. Raiton deals a maximum of 432 potency with BV-Foe Requiem, or 360 normally. Sneak Attack deals 550 with your own Dancing Edge or Warrior's Storm's Eye, PLUS the 180 Suiton (max 216) that activates it, or a total of 730 (max 766). An additional 370 oGCD potency per minute.

Imagine also how the Kassatsu TA window would be affected. The typical Suiton-TA-(Crit)Raiton does 1214 potency (180+400+40+360+180+36+18), gaining 234 from Kassatsu and TA. A Suiton-TA-(Crit)Suiton-SA would do 1490 (180+400+40+180+90+18+9+500+50+50), gaining 167 from Kassatsu and TA. Raiton remains the superior choice for the TA position, but not by much.

last but not always least, in double-NIN parties, the only real effect (apart from the bonus 740 to 750 raid potency per minute) this would have is adding another choice for the Suiton spender in the other NIN's TA window, and the extra 100 potency, or extra 10 TA bonus, and the one second less of wasted duration or when the oGCD isn't synced perfectly to duration fade, isn't too likely to outweigh the advantages of having some 18 seconds of the buff up, easier for the raid to fit all its oGCDs into (at least for those that have long enough CDs as to risk delay or desync for a mere 10% modifier).

Gameplay wise, I'd consider whether you really want to be casting 2 Suiton per minute anyways, let alone running in front of the boss once per minute, in addition to buffing one of the game's most solid jobs.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Suiton says hi. Also Sneak attack does just fine as solo burst damage; it's not like anything lasts long enough for you to necessitate a 10% damage debuff. Stealth has always been a niche mechanic in mmos, this is no exception. The only real exception is PvP, and we know how PvP is in FFXIV.

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My post addressing Suiton says hi.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

My post addressing Suiton says hi.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I'd honestly rework NIN so that stealth wasn't required for SA, and SA was moved to a once per minute ability with a rear positional like TA has. TA would still function with stealth requirement / ninjutsu requirement. But I see no reason to have the equivalent of a rogue's backstab (with a ridiculous frontal requirement) just sit unused in 99% of the game's content.

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So the NIN has the option to either use any other Ninjutsu (generally Raiton) in place of Suiton and use Sneak Attack instead of Trick Attack, assuming SA and TA still share cooldowns?

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

The NIN one makes a lot of sense. When you do you ever use Sneak Attack in group content? .

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When does a monk ever use feather foot in group content? Does that mean we should change it to a damage dealing ability? No it doesn't. The same can be said for a lot of jobs. If SE went around giving out buffs to jobs that don't need it, it'd break the game. I can think of a ton of skills that could be changed on jobs to be useful in raid but that doesn't mean it should be done.

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Originally Posted by Claymore022

When does a monk ever use feather foot in group content? Does that mean we should change it to a damage dealing ability? No it doesn't. The same can be said for a lot of jobs. If SE went around giving out buffs to jobs that don't need it, it'd break the game. I can think of a ton of skills that could be changed on jobs to be useful in raid but that doesn't mean it should be done.

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Were it just reliable (much like the original Perfect Dodge, or by making use of some sort of urgency-dependent rating / dodge resource system), you'd probably see it necessarily used in fights like Garuda Ex if the Monk wanted to stay in range for Wicked Wheel. Sadly, even that's been moved away from, as the only damage types melee have to deal with now are the same that ranged also deal with, rather than having any differing sets of mechanics that would be uniquely mitigateable. I'd like to see revisions such as that, both through the skills themselves and the contents they might be used in. But I'd agree that that doesn't mean every non-offensive ability or non raid-essential skill should be trimmed or flattened into raid damage. We have already an irregular lack of identity-heavy abilities meant for the open world, soloing, versatility, etc. Hide and Sneak Attack are actually two of the few remnants, if anything, in my opinion.

While we're on it, can we get an actual use for One Ilm Punch? I know Hull Breaker HM it can be used on the brothers which felt amazing, but It'd be nice to use that ability for more than PVP >_>

Like can we switch it to it removes a debuff from ourselves or something?

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Originally Posted by Rhaja

While we're on it, can we get an actual use for One Ilm Punch? I know Hull Breaker HM it can be used on the brothers which felt amazing, but It'd be nice to use that ability for more than PVP >_>

Like can we switch it to it removes a debuff from ourselves or something?

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Or transfers it to the enemy? >.>

Would have to be pretty limited to be both balanced and sensible, though. Wouldn't be able to transfer bleeds, poisons, Doom, or most status effects. Burns? No. TP Drain? Sure. Slow? Maybe. Vulnerability (via magic)? Maybe. Vulnerability via Trick Attack? No. Slashing/Piercing/Blunt Resist? No. Some sort of spell-based life leech? Maybe. Pacification? Couldn't use the weaponskill anyways.

Oddly enough, I'm not a fan of the idea of stealing buffs from the enemy. At that point it just becomes a Monk buff instead of an extra option (one that usually makes you feel like you actually care about the party, and gives warm feelings accordingly).

It's cool seeing all the ideas all of you have shown me. Hopefully we see some of these in future patches before 4.0 :D Keep showing me more of your ideas on what you would like to see later on!

The only changes that I can suggest are for Bard, so...

Shadowbind: Basically, just reversing the nerfs to it, and greying it out for the PvP content. It's just been unusable for me since then. It's a complete loss of utility.

Warden's Paeon: AOE, and making it similar to stoneskin, please. It's not like they can't make some status effects unavoidable for certain enemy abilities, or traps.

Other's:Why not let them have more means of surviving emergency situations better.

My suggestions for SMN:

"Job trait": Aetherial Transmutation
While you control a pet, your summon spells have their MP cost reduced, cast instantly and do not trigger the recast timer of other skills.

Basically the point here is to make switching egis on the fly a thing. Right now it's quite onerous considering it costs a ton of MP and pretty much requires you to use your Swiftcast, but with this I could imagine a common practice of summoning Garuda just before DWT so she can use Contagion and then switching back to Ifrit for otherwise higher damage. Note the "while you control a pet" condition so that letting your pet die (or dying yourself) still carries the penalty it does now.‎


Ifrit-egi: Crimson Cyclone
Remove stun, increase range to 20y, reduce recast time to 30s, change functionality to "Rushes target and delivers an attack with a potency of 110".

Ifrit is a melee, he needs a gap-closer. This seems like the perfect skill to repurpose for this task (for those unaware, Crimson Cyclone is the proper name of Ifrit's "clone dash" ability). Stun on pets (especially DPS pets as they are always attacking) is largely useless due to the sometimes long and more importantly, unpredictable delay between the command and the action.

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Ifrit-egi: Inferno
DoT effect owned by the Summoner. Change English name to Hellfire.

Something to pair with the above trait - having the summoner own the DoT effect would thereby allow Garuda-egi to Contagion it. It'd add a tiny way in which the pets interact with each other. Also the name "Inferno" offends my OCD :p. Garuda-egi has Aerial Blast, Titan-egi has Earthen Fury, the primal Ifrit uses Hellfire so what's going on here?


Titan-egi: Landslide
Remove stun, increase recast time to 120s, add "Provoke" aggro effect.

Titan-egi would be great as a solo or emergency tank, if not for the fact that he usually ends up chasing the mob/boss round the room trying desperately to get aggro using Rock Buster. He needs a version of Provoke to get control quickly. The increased cooldown should prevent it from being used to cheese tank swap mechanics. Also, see above about stun effects on pets.