I'm a bit confused about this since i haven't played for a year... Some people suggest that i should go full Vit in everything since for tanks Str=Vit now but some say that if i can reach some kind of hp threshold then i should go str. I don't have any problem in tanking in general either way (i don't plan to do any savage content) but i would like to have this matter cleared.
For melding i began getting lore gear but after i start melding i would like some help. First of all, should i meld with tier4 then slowly switch to tier5 with the weekly reward?
Also, is there any left side i220 crafted or prototype gear that could replace lore? (Legs and belt seem tempting)
P.S: Dumb question: 2 slots are available for melding in gear. this means both melds have 100% success rate?
Warrior Melds/Stats allocation
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05-19-2016, 03:24 PMTallonOverworldWarrior Melds/Stats allocation
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05-19-2016, 05:12 PMSpookyGhost
STR = .45 Attack Power
VIT = .45 Attack Power + health
All your points go in VIT, meeting HP thresholds isn't a thing anymore. Get Fending accessories and meld STR on them (because it's still better than any secondary).
If you're not raiding, then don't worry about 4s vs 5s. Ideally, meld i230 stuff with 5s and hope that you didn't waste a bunch of gil/time when 3.3 rolls around.
If you don't need accuracy (which you shouldn't if you're not raiding), just stick to Lore stuff.
Green slots = 100%. -
05-19-2016, 05:34 PMHrimfaxiWould crit be better for war?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
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05-19-2016, 05:44 PMalimdia
str = main stat
crit = sub stat
What do you think? -
05-19-2016, 05:58 PMBrian_
STR = VIT > Crit > Det > SkS
That is assuming you meet the accuracy requirements for the content you are doing and the SkS requirements for a consistent 9 GCD Berserk window (which depends on your latency).
Melding STR / VIT is only an option on Fending / Slaying Necklace / Earring / Bracelet / Rings due to restrictions on main-state melding. Outside of some rare scenarios, you will want Fending accessories melded with STR.
When looking at an what to meld for Helm / Chest / Belt / Gloves / Boots / Main-hand / Off-hand, it depends on what stats are maxed. By default, all items will have one of their secondaries maxed. You can usually tell which it is by which secondary stat has a higher value. Looking back at the stat weights, if your piece does not have its crit secondary maxed, it makes the most sense to meld crit. If crit is maxed, it makes the most sense to meld det. If crit and det are maxed, you should meld SkS.
A small detail worth noting is that these are point to point comparisons. In the case of grade IV materia, because det materia were scaled based on 2.X stat weights, grade IV det materia only gives +6 det compared to the +9 SkS grade IV SkS materia gives. As such, despite det having a higher stat weight, it is better value to meld grade IV SkS materia because 9 SkS > 6 Det. While there is a downside to having too much SkS on other tanks due to TP issues, WAR doesn't have to worry about TP due to 0 TP GCDs and Equilibrium. But, if you intend on using the gear on multiple tank classes, you might want to factor this into your melding decisions. -
05-20-2016, 01:56 PMrepoe
I went with slaying neckband, the difference in vit/Str is slaying is - 4 with or without a t5 vit/Str materia melded, but slaying is +8 /+7 when looking at secondary stats, fending gives+ acc +Ss where slaying gives +32crit [.378/ .363 ] and+SS. If your suffering HP,SS,AXC then fending is best bet, otherwise slaying is better imo.
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05-20-2016, 04:06 PMSarcaticaThe thing is you are sacrificing a lot of HP for those measly gains of secondary stats. It doesn't matter if you aren't raiding or not, you will regret not taking full fending for sure. Healers will hate you too, unless if you absolutely aren't going to tank at all. for i230 accessory, you are comparing 56str/15vit meld vs 60vit/15str meld, meaning you are already missing close to 2 AP there just from taking slaying (fending scales better). Not to mention you are losing 45 vit which is almost 1k HP, 100% crucial to get even if you are on the casual level.Quote:
Originally Posted by repoe
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05-20-2016, 04:13 PMaleph_nullYeah pretty much this. Gaining let's say 50 crit gives just slightly more than 1% additional crit rate and crit dmg multiplier, which is idk how small of a boost to your dps, in exchange of almost 1k hp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcatica
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05-20-2016, 04:20 PMBrian_
There are some accessories where it's at least a question if you're over-geared / not-tanking / really don't need acc. The necklace is not one of those accessories because the fending version has crit (sub) / acc (main). Compared to the slaying version (crit (main) / acc (sub)) it's basically a wash when factoring in the loss of main stat.
The slots that make at least some sense are...
Earrings -- lore fending is SkS (sub) / acc (main), midan fending is det (main), parry (sub), lore slaying is crit (main) / acc (sub), midan slaying is det (main) / sks (sub)
Bracelet -- lore fending is det (sub) / acc (main), lore slaying is SkS (main) / crit (sub)
1 Ring -- lore fending is acc (sub) / SkS (main), lore slaying is det (main) / SkS (sub), midan slaying is acc (main) / crit (sub) -
05-20-2016, 04:27 PMaleph_null
He's talking about the i220 midas nm necklaces I think, since he mentioned acc/spd vs crit/spd.
Edit: on a side note, based on stat weights I think pentamelded (str V + 4x spd IV) crafted i220 ring can potentially be BiS if the actual accu cap is 700-ish, you can take two of those rings and just replace one or two of the spd IV materias for accu IV if needed. -
05-20-2016, 04:46 PMBrian_He has the Midan Slaying neck equipped so I doubt he's talking about the i220 prototype.Quote:
Originally Posted by aleph_null
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05-20-2016, 11:37 PMaleph_nullI don't know. He said acc/spd and crit/spd with 32 crit, those line up perfectly with the i220 necklaces, but neither lore/savage necklaces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_
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05-24-2016, 03:56 PMrepoeWhen I posted I was wearing the midas nm 220 slaying but got 240 drop, I have been behind on lore capping due to dwindled interest n other games only logging in for raid twice a wek until recently. But yea I was referring to my decision to grab 22p slaying over fending neck. Haven't had issues with hp in raid but we're only at a7Quote:
Originally Posted by aleph_null
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05-28-2016, 10:53 AMMahono
i think we have to look at how many HP is really needed in most situations as i've been testing this out myself too.
For an instance, lets say you have 30k hp and you realize that after a couple of raids your hp never drops below lets say 4k (unless you get insta kill). Then imo you are wasting some valuable points which can go into dps. So i've come to terms with 4 fending and 1 slaying while still having a fending of the same ilvl in my back pocket just in case. but up till now there is really no need to use it.
(and i interact with healers in raid and dng to see if they have hard time healing me). -
05-28-2016, 09:59 PMSarcaticaUnless if you are a WAR, you won't achieve 30k++ HP. All tank mechanics hit pretty huge. Single cannon in a6s with 2 stacks of magic vuln hits for 25k (Rampart + ShO on, that is -36% damage), of course you would want to get more HP. You can have 28k++ with full i240s, so if any, for this patch, you want to have the highest HP possible so that you don't have to switch to tank stance for more DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahono
50 more Crits won't give you 300-400 worth of DPS, maintaining tanking with DPS stance will.
Note: If you compare the stats in <3.1 patch, STR won straight for damage at 1:1 ratio, VIT lost by a huge margin for a horrible scaling of flat HP and 0 damage ratio (mostly wasted for tank busters and due to most people not tanking in DPS stance back then), people didn't realize tanks could do huge DPS in FCOB, PLD was beast there since all PLD needed to do was to spam RoH so the enmity wasn't an issue at all. Now is a complete different thing. VIT is by far better. Why? Same scaling in damage at 0.45, VIT adds good chunk of HP on top of that. For a very small increment of secondaries, you are sacrificing eHP that 100% can allow both you and your healers do more DPS. So all in all, people are stuck with the STR meta, best stat with best secondaries that kinda stick up till now, which again is very much wrong.
Career tanks will always adjust to the best stats, and that's pretty much how it is.
TLDR: STR>VIT (before 3.2 patch), VIT>STR (3.2 patch++). Unless if you aren't tanking in any fight, this is the priority stat. -
05-28-2016, 11:47 PMJackFross
Eh.
I can see your arguments about VIT stacking and how a Slaying ACC is strictly shit comparatively, but then I also completely disagree. You say a 2-stack tank buster will hit for ~25k with Ramp+ShO on in Brawler. That's all well and good, but is that including Virus/Disable/Rend Mind/Dragon Kick/Adloquium/Stoneskin? Because there's literally no danger /at all/ in that fight, and it's the only actually dangerous tank buster in the entirety of Savage. The only time those tank busters are even dangerous is during the orb phase... when you have 0 stacks.
And all of that is avoided by just handling the mechanic properly! If you have two stacks and he's using Single Buster, your OT should be provoking off of you to take the beam instead. If he's not, you're failing the mechanic. Dying to a 25k hit through Ramp+ShO is your own group's fault for ignoring proper handling, not something due to you lacking health.
As a very important aside - my Paladin is woefully undergeared at i224 at the moment. I rock a single Primal Ring of Slaying with a VIT +15 in it. In party with Flint Caviar HQ, I have 24k health. My left side is 230 sword/shield, 230 hat/chest, 210 gloves, 220 pants/boots/belt and right is 230 wrist/rings and 220 neck/ears. 1195 VIT out of party. If you're clearing Midas and rocking ANY i240 pieces, it becomes even easier to roll Slaying accs with better stats with less impact on your survival.
Like - I hear you. I hear what you're saying. I have 3 VIT +15 melds on my Dragoon in A8S progression with a full i240 (sans crafted chest) left side and I don't have any plans to drop any of those until the fight is dead. So I hear you, and I understand the importance of Vitality. But this late in progression, telling a Tank who is clearing Midas that they should never wear any Slaying for the gains in secondaries because MUH HEALTH is just flat out silly, imho. You'll never /need/ the 28k you can get in full i240 fending as a PLD or DRK. If you do, you failed a mechanic or the healers are slacking. It's not your fault for running 1 Slaying accessory with 15 VIT melded. -
05-28-2016, 11:50 PMAshelia_Ferron
But the gain is just so.... Marginal.
A couple extra secondaries isn't going to make/break DPS checks on a Tank.
Also remember that Slaying Accessories have less primary to begin with than Fending (61 STR vs 66 VIT) so those 5 extra VIT points make the difference in attack power even less pronounced -
05-29-2016, 05:01 AMNyghtmarerobuI agree handling mechanics properly is a big thing, but I don't think I've ever heard of this being done unless you're woefully undergeared, and don't know how to CD on castbars....Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFross
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05-30-2016, 01:21 AMSarcaticaThere are more than just Single Cannon that do a lot of damage especially in Midas. Tank swap does solve the problem of Single Cannon 1shotting tank, but I was just providing 1 example out of so many more in Midas.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFross
Stuff like tanks soaking 3x Physical Vulne up + Lightning in DPS stance is very much also possible with proper CD and full VIT setup, which is definitely not available if you have 1-2 Slayings. More DPS stance uptime = more DPS. Simple.
Say what you want, if Slaying is indeed that good, why aren't we seeing more and more tanks doing Slaying setup? Literally every single raiding tank, both in-game and in Lodestone are using full VIT setup. Why? VIT has no more downside, all the more reason to get highest HP and be in DPS stance and do more DPS whenever you are comfortable. All high DPS tanks have very low tank stance uptime. That says something, it means that more HP will enable you to be in DPS stance more. That's it. Tell me, how is 50 more crits gonna give 300-400dps more for you? You won't ever get it. Instead if you get full VIT, you can worry less with tank buster not killing you in DPS stance. killing you in DPS stance.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFross
The need to tank something at some point means that Slaying setup is quite risky to pull it off and if any will just put a dent in the healers' DPS for your puny DPS from those measly secondaries. -
05-30-2016, 01:27 AMSarcaticaMost groups don't really swap before mechanics resolve completely. It's very much only recommended to do if both tanks trust each other since you are expecting your partner to take aggro before Single Cannon hits. That by any standard is the best one for more DPS uptime if you can pull it off. Not hard, just have to say it out beforehand and practice and learn to trust more and more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu
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05-30-2016, 11:56 AMBrian_
Personally, I don't think there are many situations where an extra 1k+ HP would make a real difference in A5S - A7S if you have been farming it for a while and have sufficient HP from i240 left and right sides. So, I think wearing 1 piece of slaying for the higher stat weighting is probably okay. I think 2 pieces starts to get a bit iffy as 2k+ HP does actually start to approach certain thresholds. I think there is very little reason to wear 3 slaying pieces -- I don't even think there are 3 slaying pieces with decidedly better stat weights.
During prog and before you out-gear content, I think you obviously wear VIT gear.