Expanding Open World Content

I come from WoW. I quit WoW a long, long time ago when I realized instanced content was the only thing to do at max level, thus taking the "Massively Multiplayer" out of "MMORPG" and removing the primary reason why I played WoW - Massive player interaction. Browsing these forums and talking to friends gives me the impression FFXIV sort of has the same problem. Instances aren't the only thing to do, but they will be your main focus by far.

What could fix this problem?
My thoughts:

- Open World Dungeons -
Every level bracket past 15 has non-instanced, non-linear dungeons to explore. Open Dungeons need a level sync to enter. There are randomized daily/weekly challenges associated with them for adventurers and gatherers. Adventurer challenges need one group to complete, and higher level dungeons also have "deep" zones needing at least two groups to complete. Gatherer challenges can be taken solo, but are made more difficult with enemy patrols that can see through Stealth.

(cont)

- S-Rank Hunts Update -
I've been told Hunts feel like just another way to gear for raids instead of being a complete end game alternative. Watching them also tells me most of them are too vulnerable to zerg rushes to be threatening or interesting encounters.

Greatly expand the S Rank roster, then split S Ranks into sub difficulty tiers comparable to raids based on recommended item level. These sub tiers would also determine the amount and type of currency rewarded. Then, add dynamically scaling difficulty to retain the encounter's challenge even with zerg rushing. Finally, add a new rank above S that rewards BiS for a few equipment slots - maybe accessories? - that you can't obtain from raids. So if you wanted BiS for everything, then you would run raids for left side equipment and S+ Ranks for right side equipment.

(end)

I would like to have a lot more item drops from overworld enemies and rare drops as well also it makes no sense to me why enemies give so little EXP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sticky_Icecream

Adventurer challenges need one group to complete, and higher level dungeons also have "deep" zones needing at least two groups to complete. Gatherer challenges can be taken solo, but are made more difficult with enemy patrols that can see through Stealth.

---

I would really enjoy something like this! But like many others have said, this expansion on the open-world part of the game probably won't come until PS3 support is cut.

I've said from the beginning and always bring it up with friends but every dungeon should have an open world version with different items than what you get in dungeons.

This also makes the open world feel a bit bigger and makes the instance dungeon location feel more than just a backdrop. Even places that aren't dungeons could be expanded on as open world dungeons to add more variety.

I think your ideas aren't too bad. The open world dungeon would be pretty cool though I think they need to refine their creation method. At the moment, after the Diadem, I wan't to see them experiment with revamps to that till they start to figure out what works.

I see Hunts as a much harder problem to solve. Hunts naturally are susceptible to zergs. Unless they actually restrict the number of people who can access the hunt, which would be very unpopular, any open world hunt using the current model is susceptible to zerging.

That said, I think the FATE chain system could be expanded to be much more engaging and rewarding as open world content. For an example I would point to the Darkscale FATE chain. In that chain, by completing successfully the FATEs linked to Darkscale's lieutenants the Darkscale FATEs themselves are slightly different and as a result there is a bonus follow up FATE which rewards a huge amount of EXP (the most I've ever gotten from a FATE) and a barding specific to the special FATE. Having FATEs that lead into each other could make the FATE system much more dynamic and have an escalating chain that if successful triggers special FATEs that have special rewards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

Hunts naturally are susceptible to zergs.

---

Every open world content is, technically. The few times FATEs actually became popular due to things like the Anima weapon, they are/were massively zerged as well.

This is why instances were made a thing in the first place. Also, why many games use a simple:"Only person/Group to pull gets credit" system, as it serves as a natural limiter - and incites trolling from everyone excluded, if possible. For maximum salt, add PvP servers and no open world content will be done that day, only constant disruption back and forth. Been there, done that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

the best words

---

Not to take this thread off-topic but wouldn't world PvP in itself be considered open world content? I think it would be a lot of fun buuut I know it's not for everyone and certainly not a popular thing here in the FFXIV community.

Also, doesn't that first thing the OP suggested sound a lot like what the Diadem was meant to be?

Is this even something they could do? I believe we can't even get new faces because of restrictions with playstations, and adding in open world dungeons would take a ton of technical work and even moreso since the game was not made with this mechanic in mind. I'd love to see it, I just don't think it's something they can pull off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnduinLynn

Is this even something they could do? I believe we can't even get new faces because of restrictions with playstations, and adding in open world dungeons would take a ton of technical work and even moreso since the game was not made with this mechanic in mind. I'd love to see it, I just don't think it's something they can pull off.

---

I think it's just the PS3 that's holding the game back at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnduinLynn

Is this even something they could do? I believe we can't even get new faces because of restrictions with playstations, and adding in open world dungeons would take a ton of technical work and even moreso since the game was not made with this mechanic in mind. I'd love to see it, I just don't think it's something they can pull off.

---

Had they decided to not use the PS3 which is a decade old and in terms of technology that's like the 20th century vs the 21st century. Had they have stuck with PS4 graphically speaking we could have had character models that were on par with MGS 5. There is a very good reason why 90% of the games coming out now are not supporting the 10 year old systems of last Gen anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tENAxc

I would really enjoy something like this! But like many others have said, this expansion on the open-world part of the game probably won't come until PS3 support is cut.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tENAxc

I think it's just the PS3 that's holding the game back at the moment.

---

This spreading of misinformation is ridiculous. What says we'll get anything more after ps3 is cut off? Yes, it's weaker than most other systems that play this game, but that doesn't mean there will be a huge surge of content when it's gone, either. Nothing, anywhere says that it's the ps3 making things the way they are. They made the game the way it is to accommodate as many systems (low-end pc's as well), and as such, cutting out ps3 support will NOT dramatically increase this game's capabilities, as it will still be accommodating low-end pc specs, unless you want those PC players cut out as well, which then leads into the question of "when does it stop?" more systems=more subs=more money=longer game life. Don't forget this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilitsa

This spreading of misinformation is ridiculous. What says we'll get anything more after ps3 is cut off? Yes, it's weaker than most other systems that play this game, but that doesn't mean there will be a huge surge of content when it's gone, either.

---

There might not be a new surge of new content right away but a lot of ease of life features could be implemented sooner than you think, all of the smaller details could be refined.

To try and say that no improvements could be made once PS3 support is dropped is also quite ludicrous.

And I'm pretty sure SE have tossed around and mentioned that by 4.0 they want to start phasing the PS3 version out so that they can expand the very scope of their game because the size of zones and other various content that will require technological resources and power that the PS3 sadly doesn't possess any more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NaesakiAshwell

To try and say that no improvements could be made once PS3 support is dropped is also quite ludicrous.

---

Nowhere did I say NO improvements would be made, I said that dropping it wouldn't result in a surge of content when it's gone. They want to keep as many systems as possible able to run this, as I said later in my reply, of course NO improvements would be ludicrous. It'd be silly to think that NOTHING AT ALL would improve. I just don't believe that it'll jump the way people that are pushing for the ps3 cut off THINK it will, that's all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilitsa

--

---

They'd have nothing to gain from instantly pulling the plug, no matter what its going to have to be a gradual process and giving incentives and what not to convince the current PS3 population to want to slowly migrate.

Cutting it off right now would serve no purpose, its true the PS3 is holding things back but its going to have to be slowly phased out eventually or the game is only going to be able to go so far on technology its using now, any decisions they make have to ensure they keep the PS3 stays in the loop.

And I did state in my post as well that I wouldn't expect a sudden surge of new content, content can't happen that fast to begin with. There is so much planning involved with the whole concept of phasing the PS3 version out, that people expecting it before 4.0 are hoping for way too much.

As for the low end PC's there is a lot more wiggle room in that regard, don't forget there are a lot more tweaks and options available on the PC version to ensure the game can run on it whereas the PS3 is very set in stone with what it can and can't do.

I apologise if I made you terse, angry and irritated but the context of you post did kind of imply what I initially thought and I'm sorry for jumping to a sudden conclusion about your post.

As far as I remember the PS3 version ultimately happened at the time as a promise to those who waited so very patiently for the 1.0 version that never came and because the PS3 market a few years back in Japan was still extremely strong and good financial decision on SE's part and I suspect it still is since the PS4 is gaining steam much more slowly there.

In the west the PS4 has most definitely taken over now, so really as to when PS3 support is ever phased out, is ultimately up to the Japanese player-base at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilitsa

This spreading of misinformation is ridiculous. What says we'll get anything more after ps3 is cut off? Yes, it's weaker than most other systems that play this game, but that doesn't mean there will be a huge surge of content when it's gone, either. Nothing, anywhere says that it's the ps3 making things the way they are. They made the game the way it is to accommodate as many systems (low-end pc's as well), and as such, cutting out ps3 support will NOT dramatically increase this game's capabilities, as it will still be accommodating low-end pc specs, unless you want those PC players cut out as well, which then leads into the question of "when does it stop?" more systems=more subs=more money=longer game life. Don't forget this.

---

PS3 is 10 years old, like I stated in my post that's like 20th century tech vs 21st century tech. Drop the PS3 and you have the option to use more powerful systems, thus resulting in better content and QoL that the PS3 can't hold because again, it's a decade old.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Had they decided to not use the PS3 which is a decade old and in terms of technology that's like the 20th century vs the 21st century. Had they have stuck with PS4 graphically speaking we could have had character models that were on par with MGS 5. There is a very good reason why 90% of the games coming out now are not supporting the 10 year old systems of last Gen anymore.

---

lol, 90% of games are ports from last gen.

Open world pvp zone.

I agree, the game should shift from a glorified hub for instances to an actual game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Had they decided to not use the PS3 which is a decade old and in terms of technology that's like the 20th century vs the 21st century. Had they have stuck with PS4 graphically speaking we could have had character models that were on par with MGS 5. There is a very good reason why 90% of the games coming out now are not supporting the 10 year old systems of last Gen anymore.

---

They chose to use PS3 because they promised it. XIV was a failure, but it was promised on PS3 and the wanted that bit of dignity. They also wanted to tap into the low-end PC market, similar to WoW.

The fact you believe XIV could be on par with MGS5 is hilarious. Beyond. I'm like, Felicia...please. No current gen can handle that in an MMO setting. Probably not even next. Crazy town Felicia.

I honestly wish they bring back Notorious Monsters. Hunts are similar but NMs are much better in a way.
Examples in FFXI and FFXIV 1.0, they give useful items or gear drops that can be relevant for raids or just good leveling gear instead of hunts giving out seals that can be traded for glamour, and Hunts gets shoved on Relic weapon stuff so people can bother doing it.

Other than that, I'm down with open world dungeons. The Aquapolis and Deep Dungeons seem like they are. They should also make open versions of the existing ones, too.

then no and no...
why the open world content are something that must be avoid is quite simple....
for the open world dungeon:
- will be camped by group for hours until get what they want, they will simply stay at one point of the open world dungeon and don't move. killing the interest of it.
- when this content will be useless for the progression or in terms of reward, this place will simply become empty and a huge area unused, worst find a group for do this will be extremely hard. new player will simply have no way to partake into it.
- finally the zerg, the open world allows more of 200 person per area means that until it become obsolete, you will have more of 60-70 person in this place, either you will have more heroes than monster or simply no monster enough since player will destroyed them too fast. worst this will kill all difficulty from it.

Notorious monster:
- same as before but worst it create very toxic behaviour... if the item can be sold, the monster will be farmed by the bot and such, if not, people will stay there for age... because 1 notorious monster for thousand people per server is crazy..

this content are actually, let's face it, idiot! no challenge, no danger, no fun, is more a way to get grind outside instance. but do it will bring anything? because Diadem, even if it's an instance, it's an artificial open world content, showing you what can happend.

nostalgia is nice, but this sort of content that show it limit age ago and must'nt be bring back

the deep dungeon and aquapolis thought is a good idea and must be pushed farer

I wish SE does a better Diadem-style content. There's still the part of exploring a massive zone where you can battle monsters and gather stuff.
There's a lot of differences. Premade parties can only accept quests (costs something) that involve hunting difficult boss monsters which I'll call them, and if the quest asks for that specific boss monster to be slain, then it's guaranteed to spawn. Only your party is in the zone in quests like these, you can't have gatherers with you.

There's also a free roam version for people who can't find a party, but boss monsters spawning isn't guaranteed (but it still can at a low rate). It's for people who want to do some gathering only, or just want to hunt down the zone monsters.
There's also quests for gathering and delivering stuff but doesn't need a party to do it and is considered separate. Maybe you'll share the same instance with 29-ish other people at maximum, and you can change jobs.

The boss monsters are difficult and may take about 20-30 minutes to defeat but they aren't just damage sponges, and the fight involves mechanics of course. The location of where you fight it also varies as well so people may or may not put people at a disadvantage.

Also the monsters don't drop treasure chests that may have gear with stats that are so RNG dependant--but materials (guaranteed drop, but what type of material it is and amount will be random) you need to craft for gear that will have guaranteed good stats. You can exchange them to an NPC for the gear but crafters can craft it HQ. The challenge here is defeating the powerful boss monster to get materials for good gear rather than the RNG of Diadem. Basically, it's something like Monster Hunter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silentwindfr

words

---

Hunts did create very toxic behaviour, but the playerbase brought it upon themselves so we are the ones to blame. And of course, why would rare items be ever possible to be sold or traded? That would remove the value.

Really, I just wanted NMs because it's better than Hunts in terms of rewarding. It can also be treated as an extra stuff to gear up, and that it doesn't need to be done.
Hunts could've been fun and challenging and not such a zerg-fest but the developers didn't decide to do that. It's not the concept, but how the developers handled it.

They will never add open world content like open world dungeons because of game's design. This is a console game. They designed it so that most of the content is based on instanced zones/ instanced dungeons to avoid massive lag on server and consoles (and on old weak PCs). Except if they make the open world dungeons being in instanced zones but then again there will be no difference from the current dungeon system we have. I would really like to see content based on massive scaled battle with lots of people (like castle sieges or massive battle fields) but we will never get this kind of content here due to console and server limitation. We will keep getting only new dungeons and bigger 24man dungeons. This is the max we can hope for.

People always take these radical ideas from a bygone era of MMOs and try to shoehorn it in without any regards for the current system in place and somehow omitting the fact that the majority of their ideas have seen some incarnation or another. It goes without saying that people also ignore the flaws in their ideas when they propose them, ignoring many of the disastrous problems it caused when it came to fruition. Notorious Monsters for loot? Really? How much fun was FFXI camping a spawn point for hours only to realize that there was a bot who would get it before you. Thirty minute boss fights? Why in the world would you want that. It's tedious content. It's something that has a static, non-escalating reward. You're devoting massive resources to things that don't age, forgoing the things we all ready have in the game because guess what - they don't age well. Hunts have been made relevant through cyclical currency, while the Diadem remains so due to the demand of restricted materials only available there, such as pterodactyls. No one is farming Diadem for gear or tomestones, they can be gotten elsewhere with a more tolerable amount of effort. If the only way to get said tomestones was killing a Brontosaur inside the Diadem, there would be about two hundred threads saying it was awful, especially if they group locked it.

I am all for the functional addition of things to the game, but none of these ideas are functional. They're not even new.

Fine, I'll agree that Hunts dropping loot instead of currency would be a bad idea because of the good point you made but really, when I mentioned NMs, it didn't have to be exactly like FFXI at all. I know camping for them is boring, and that bots are a problem, that's why Hunts today have random spawning locations. It's just that the things you get from NMs sees relevance in difficult end game content. Here, the gear you can get from it serves as glamour. I never saw relevance in Hunts until the Relic which is just funny to me.

The idea I gave never even mentioned getting gear alone or even tomestones from it, but materials, and that you can use those materials to craft gear. I know Diadem is also farmed for because of materials. This is exactly the same thing. For the duration of the fight--that's why the fight is ranged to about minimum 20 minutes. Nobody wants to fight for half an hour, and 20 minutes is about as similar time you'll spend on raiding. People wouldn't really mind fights that take a bit longer as long as it's fun.

Besides, not much content in this game ages well at all, that's true. You'll know Midas will be irrelevant at the start of the next tier of Alexander. It happened with Gordias, Coil, and CT came back to life again briefly because of the Relic. End game dungeons are barely done other than for Duty Roulette, and they do a good job designing them, too. That's how themeparks work and they've wasted a lot of resources from it already.

The game would do well with "impossible" enemies on the world map that would require 50-60 endgame players to kill. They could have cool glamour items and currency reward of marks or tomestones or w/e, plus achievements. It'd also be nice if we could form 24 man raid groups outside of 24 man raids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Destous

The game would do well with "impossible" enemies on the world map that would require 50-60 endgame players to kill. They could have cool glamour items and currency reward of marks or tomestones or w/e, plus achievements. It'd also be nice if we could form 24 man raid groups outside of 24 man raids.

---

You mean we could do just that with hunts right now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

You mean we could do just that with hunts right now?

---

Come on now. Even the S rank hunts only need a full group at most.

It's basically the same thing, except your idea is just throwing more players at it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

It's basically the same thing, except your idea is just throwing more players at it.

---

Well, yeah. But how is that bad? From first wharf rat you kill, everything PvE is basically the same thing but with more players thrown at it.

It's bad because it's boring. Hunts are already mindless zergfests with no sense of strategy thanks to entire server populations rushing the mark. Saying "oh well you kill things already and get more people as you go along" is weak justification and it's far too easy to boil everything down to the simple core mechanic to make that weak justification. "Why bother trying other crafting classes if they're all the same?" "Why bother doing the next raid if you're just doing the same thing as before?"


The game is already easy enough for mainstream content. We should be encouraging something that makes us think or at least has us practice more caution, not "throw more people at it" as the ultimate answer.

Daily boss scrolls which are identical to hunts but you summon them and can fight them solo or with a party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

snip

---

A weak justification? It's the simple truth of the matter. The core of PvE never changes, yet becomes more complex as you play.

Like you said, hunts right now are mindless zergfests. My suggestion was a horrendously strong open world monster that required large numbers and a sense of strategy. Something that's truly difficult to accomplish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bass9020

Daily boss scrolls which are identical to hunts but you summon them and can fight them solo or with a party.

---

Thats basicly what we already have with treasuremaps only due to current gear they perhaps could use a difficulty increase.
Been doing dragonskins for the past week now together with a tank and me as dps using 2 chocobo's. Some people might already be doing them solo.

Sounds like Odin Desotous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Destous

The game would do well with "impossible" enemies on the world map that would require 50-60 endgame players to kill. They could have cool glamour items and currency reward of marks or tomestones or w/e, plus achievements. It'd also be nice if we could form 24 man raid groups outside of 24 man raids.

---

How often are Behemoth, Odin, Tarrasque, Duzu, Coeurlregina, Vedrfolnir, Prey Online and other large scale FATEs being cleared on your server? Because those are exactly what you are describing.