I am new to Astrologian, which stance is best for solo healing?

My friend told me "They" have done the math and someone Nocturnal Stance is never worth it.

Is this true? Which is the best stance for 4 man dungeons. I haven't touched Astrologian until this patch and I'm really loving the class. I had heard early on they were weaker healers than the other two and thus had a bad stigma on them.

How does the class fare now in 3.2? Does it matter which stance for 4 man dungeons or just do what you want?

Yeah due to the spellspeed boost of the diurnal, it worth it EVERY time in solo or 4man content

Nocturnal is most of the time used in 8man content to take the SCH place and mitigate some raid damage
=> personnalité i also use it during dragon treasure map and pvp

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Ast WAS à weak class... But it's in the past now.
Thanks to the multiple ajustment it is become the best heal... And snatched the whm crown

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

Yeah due to the spellspeed boost of the diurnal, it worth it EVERY time in solo or 4man content

Nocturnal is most of the time used in 8man content to take the SCH place and mitigate some raid damage
=> personnalité i also use it during dragon treasure map and pvp

...

Ast WAS à weak class... But it's in the past now.
Thanks to the multiple ajustment it is become the best heal... And snatched the whm crown

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Thanks for the response! So far I've been loving this class. I just hit level 50 last night and it's been amazing. I don't feel I am lacking in any way for any situation either. It seems like a well rounded class. I enjoy the Diurnal Sect, I was just wondering if Nocturnal Sect was as useless as my friend made it sound.

No... Nocturnal is a really strong stance as well.
But could be seen as a bad one if you play too much in diurnal XD

Because if you're diurnal everytime you will get used to the 5% speedcast bonus and going nocturne will look slow and heavy
While it is as fast as the whm spell
And the 5% healing bonus of the noct give you a higher potency than a whm.
Plus you got shield !

Noct is very powerful to play but not in most content.
Since HW launch is switched to AST and I become more and more in love with this awesome job

Take with this a grain of salt, because my healing main is SCH and I've only got a AST at 55 so far but:

Diurnal is going to net you higher overall potency.
Nocturnal is going to net you higher burst output and shields.

If efficiency and overall output is your primary concern Diurnal.
If you need to deal with closely spaced large damage spikes Nocturnal.

In general I've been defaulting to Diurnal. I'm struggling to think of many 4-man encounters off the top of my head where I'd want to use noct. The last boss of the Vault seems like he might be one since he puts party damage up at rate higher than what a HoT can keep up with.

Nocturnal isn't useless but because Diurnal is the superior sect to use, it's better just to use the more powerful sect, thus leaving Nocturnal in the dust. There are times where Nocturnal is more beneficial than Diurnal but those situations are very few and far in between.

In 4-mans you can pretty much get away with either that suitable for you. Just know that Diurnal is regarded as the better Sect to play in.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Nocturnal isn't useless but because Diurnal is the superior sect to use, it's better just to use the more powerful sect, thus leaving Nocturnal in the dust. There are times where Nocturnal is more beneficial than Diurnal but those situations are very few and far in between.

In 4-mans you can pretty much get away with either that suitable for you. Just know that Diurnal is regarded as the better Sect to play in.

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Okay, great! Thanks for the response! Of course we are forming a static and need only 1 or 2 people more to finish our static so of course in 8 man content the Sect will come down to whatever the other healer will be. If SCH I always stay Diurnal, and if WHM then I would go Nocturnal.

One cool thing you can do in 4 man dungeons as an AST is switch to noct in between pulls to get a shield up on the tank then switch back to diurnal before you get thrown into combat. This way you can dps more before the tank needs heals. I usually do this plus a stoneskin so I can pump out some mad deeps.

You can do it without noct as well
As long as the tank is under aspected helios, aspected benefic and if he rotate his CD correctly you can DPS freely XP

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Noted that on some 8man content whm + diurnal is sometime better
Like A1S for exemple
But this is rater !

FWIW, I recently picked up AST and leveled it to 60, learning some of these things along the way.

Spell speed boost from Diurnal is VERY noticeable, and in general, I feel like I get a lot more mileage from the Regen effects than the Nocturnal shields.

By the way, there's a cool trick I picked up in this very forum that can be used at Level 60 to completely trivialize dungeon healing. It helped me realize AST's identity as the "regen healer," next to WHM's "burst healer" and SCH's "shield healer. Give it a try once you've unlocked the relevant abilities!

It looks something like: Collective Unconscious -> Synastry -> Aspected Benefic -> Lightspeed -> Aspected Helios -> Time Dilation -> Celestial Opposition

That might not make sense to you quite yet, but with this sequence, you can give the tank 3 suped-up Regen effects ticking simultaneously for 20 to 40 seconds each. You can then switch to Cleric Stance and DPS for days. You could also slide in a card, like Expanded Balance, before Time Dilation to give a damage boost to the whole party and just completely wreck dungeon pulls.

I haven't used my AST much in harder lvl 60 content, but I imagine this would be pretty wasteful in that setting.

Diurnal is best for solo healing. Synestry+three regens+time dilation is better than anything in nocturnal sect can do. If you do that in an ex roulette, you wont have to heal for 30 secs at least and can just gravity spam.

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Originally Posted by BrielleBeaudonet

FWIW, I recently picked up AST and leveled it to 60, learning some of these things along the way.

Spell speed boost from Diurnal is VERY noticeable, and in general, I feel like I get a lot more mileage from the Regen effects than the Nocturnal shields.

By the way, there's a cool trick I picked up in this very forum that can be used at Level 60 to completely trivialize dungeon healing. It helped me realize AST's identity as the "regen healer," next to WHM's "burst healer" and SCH's "shield healer. Give it a try once you've unlocked the relevant abilities!

It looks something like: Collective Unconscious -> Synastry -> Aspected Benefic -> Lightspeed -> Aspected Helios -> Time Dilation -> Celestial Opposition

That might not make sense to you quite yet, but with this sequence, you can give the tank 3 suped-up Regen effects ticking simultaneously for 20 to 40 seconds each. You can then switch to Cleric Stance and DPS for days. You could also slide in a card, like Expanded Balance, before Time Dilation to give a damage boost to the whole party and just completely wreck dungeon pulls.

I haven't used my AST much in harder lvl 60 content, but I imagine this would be pretty wasteful in that setting.

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There is a better way

Synastry>A.Benefic>Swiftcast>A.Helios>Collective Unconcious>Time Dilation>Cleric Stance>Gravity.

If Wheel of Fate (from CU) takes too long to get up with this method, you also add in an extra A.Benefic before time dilation.

You then use Lum.Aether and Celestial Opposition after you have done a few gravities to keep dps going and extend the HoTs.

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

There is a better way

Synastry>A.Benefic>Swiftcast>A.Helios>Collective Unconcious>Time Dilation>Cleric Stance>Gravity.

If Wheel of Fate (from CU) takes too long to get up with this method, you also add in an extra A.Benefic before time dilation.

You then use Lum.Aether and Celestial Opposition after you have done a few gravities to keep dps going and extend the HoTs.

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I don't want to derail this thread too much, but I have to ask: What's the benefit of using CU later in the sequence? I thought that Wheel of Fortune doesn't benefit from Synastry; that's why I was starting the sequence with CU.

I assume Swiftcast instead of Lightspeed is so that you don't suffer the DPS penalty on your first few Gravities? And, for that matter, are you saving Celestial Opposition for a little later just to get a quicker start on spamming Gravity?

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Originally Posted by BrielleBeaudonet

I don't want to derail this thread too much, but I have to ask: What's the benefit of using CU later in the sequence? I thought that Wheel of Fortune doesn't benefit from Synastry; that's why I was starting the sequence with CU.

I assume Swiftcast instead of Lightspeed is so that you don't suffer the DPS penalty on your first few Gravities? And, for that matter, are you saving Celestial Opposition for a little later just to get a quicker start on spamming Gravity?

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The use of swiftcast for A.Helios>CU means you use only one gcd to get 2 HoTs up. You are right about synastry and CU. If you use CU at the start it falls of quicker, so doing it this way means that you tend to have 28-30 secs of it when starting to dps, rather than having lost 2-3GCD of ticks from it

Lightspeed is not used as it would still be active when you start dpsing, meaning at least one gravity is at 75% effectiveness.

Saving LA and CO for use whilst gravity spamming means you get the mana back whilst dpsing and the mobs are stunned for one tick of HoTs helping the tank recover health.

You're right about synastry not affecting Collective Unconsciousness. There's also the thing that you can afford wasting 0-3s to get the Wheel of Fortune effect as the tank is still at full health (I assume so, at least). Aspected Benefic's front loaded healing won't be as much of a waste then and you won't waste up to 3 seconds on Synastry

I find that when I use my astro I use diurnal for trash and nocturnal for bosses, since the regens help keep us alive when we are fighting multiple enemies and the shields help mitigate boss damage. I think similar to tanks, its a stance dance, this way you don't get too use to one and think the other sucks.

Light speed, while it's much better off used for healing rather than damage or for mobility purposes, doesn't change the potency/mp ratio when it's used for offensive spells. It's nowhere as GCD efficient, however. But casting heals or stoneskins for no reason while light speed is up isn't very efficient either. Gravity is also a bit of a special cookie, as it has a 3 second cast time and each GCD would be 3 seconds. Under the effect of light speed the GCD would be 2,5 seconds. On 10 targets the potency/second would be 607 and 546 respectively.

Here is a reminder, as there are people out there who somehow blur out certain portions of the text and read what they want to read: I am not claiming that casting damage spells with light speed is more efficient. But it sure beats sitting there doing either:
1) Unnecessary healing with the mindset that DPSing with Light Speed on is a waste of time
2) Idling with the mindset that DPSing with Light Speed on is a waste of time

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

The use of swiftcast for A.Helios>CU means you use only one gcd to get 2 HoTs up. You are right about synastry and CU. If you use CU at the start it falls of quicker, so doing it this way means that you tend to have 28-30 secs of it when starting to dps, rather than having lost 2-3GCD of ticks from it

Lightspeed is not used as it would still be active when you start dpsing, meaning at least one gravity is at 75% effectiveness.

Saving LA and CO for use whilst gravity spamming means you get the mana back whilst dpsing and the mobs are stunned for one tick of HoTs helping the tank recover health.

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Perfectly explained, thank you!

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

Thanks to the multiple ajustment it is become the best heal... And snatched the whm crown

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http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...d9qso1_400.gif

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...d9qso1_400.gif

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-hugs- I love you. I have a level 50 White Mage and Scholar also :) (And Summoner, and Black Mage)

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

Diurnal is best for solo healing. Synestry+three regens+time dilation is better than anything in nocturnal sect can do. If you do that in an ex roulette, you wont have to heal for 30 secs at least and can just gravity spam.

There is a better way

Synastry>A.Benefic>Swiftcast>A.Helios>Collective Unconcious>Time Dilation>Cleric Stance>Gravity.

If Wheel of Fate (from CU) takes too long to get up with this method, you also add in an extra A.Benefic before time dilation.

You then use Lum.Aether and Celestial Opposition after you have done a few gravities to keep dps going and extend the HoTs.

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A few questions: 1) Where is the third regen effect coming from? Aspected Benefic is 1, Aspected Helios is 2...where's the third? 2) Who do I cast all this stuff on? Myself? Synastry basically copies my spells onto the target right? So I target the tank then do it all on myself and it'll copy over to them?

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...d9qso1_400.gif

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+1 for the laugh

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Originally Posted by Krissey

A few questions: 1) Where is the third regen effect coming from? Aspected Benefic is 1, Aspected Helios is 2...where's the third? 2) Who do I cast all this stuff on? Myself? Synastry basically copies my spells onto the target right? So I target the tank then do it all on myself and it'll copy over to them?

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Third regen is from collective unconcious and is called wheel of fate.

Synastry is on the tank. What synastry does is incrases your healing potency by 20% whilst active and whenever you cast a single target healing spell whilst it is up, it will heal the synastry target for 40% of that single target heal as well. Sadly only the +20% healing potency works for HoTs.

You cast all this stuff on the tank.

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

Third regen is from collective unconcious and is called wheel of fate.

Synastry is on the tank. What synastry does is incrases your healing potency by 20% whilst active and whenever you cast a single target healing spell whilst it is up, it will heal the synastry target for 40% of that single target heal as well. Sadly only the +20% healing potency works for HoTs.

You cast all this stuff on the tank.

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For some reason I thought it worked like World of Warcraft's Paladin Beacon which would basically copy spells you put on others. Put it on the tank then raid heal everyone else and the tank gets those heals the whole time also. It last forever, unlike Synergy. I guess I misunderstood the Synergy ability. >w<

I've started to use Noct more and it gets a bad rap. For me it all depends on the group what stance I'm going to use. Also depends on the situation. I know that Dirunal is great for SS but when you are running a dungeon and killing mobs fast those regens create aggro for the healer and I'm sure that's an annoyance for tanks trying to grab the next set of trash mobs. Shields also help when the tank is running grabbing many mobs to do a big pull instead of throwing a regen and grabbing aggro as he runs and picks up mobs.

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Originally Posted by Krissey

A few questions: 1) Where is the third regen effect coming from? Aspected Benefic is 1, Aspected Helios is 2...where's the third? 2) Who do I cast all this stuff on? Myself? Synastry basically copies my spells onto the target right? So I target the tank then do it all on myself and it'll copy over to them?

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Collective Unconsciousness grants an 150 potency HoT for 15s that continues to refresh as long as the shield is still up (giving 18s + 15s of 150 Potency Regen if its held for the entire duration).

Synastry doesn't actually copy the spell. If actually does two things. (1) Increases the healing potency of your spells by 20% and (2) Restores HP equal to 40% of the healing you do via single target magic to the player you gave Synastry too.

So, if you break Synastry down it does the following:

1. AST gives Player X Synastry
2. AST heals Player Y with Benefic for 2,000 HP
3. Player X restores 40% of the healed amount that was cast on Player Y (in this case, 800HP)

Take into account that this is a bonus. It doesn't transfer 40% of the healing from Player Y to Player X. It calculates the amount of healing Player X will recieve and gives them that healing, effectively making the total healing be 2,800 between two players. Also, taking into account that if you give Player X Syanstry then heal Player X for 2,000 HP, they also recieve an additional 800 HP for a total of 2,800. Synastry is effectively the best single target healing buff in the game, and does wonders in two or even three player healing if required.

Synastry gets a bit more complicated when you add Aspected Benefic but you can break it down into three parts.

1. Healed target gets 190 potency +20% heal [228 potency heal]
2. Synastry target gets 40% of the 228 potency heal [91 potency]
3. Healed target gets a 140 + 20% HoT [168 potency]

I hope all the above makes sense >>; lol. It's a lot to take in at once. Let me know if you need that broken a bit more >>;

I wrote up a guide on AST Sects on FFXIVRealm with a great pun in the title that if I type here may get me banned.

Noct is a powerful stance, and I wouldn't trust your friends math. However, Diurnal is always viable (unless there's another AST in that stance) and since Diurnal offers better MP management and better DPS it's hard to justify using Noct. However, there are certain fights where I feel that Noct is more powerful as far as strictly healing. It's what I used back when I first started solo healing Rav EX—with the hard hits and long pauses between the serious blows, shields really shine over regens.

Also, if you're aware of what's going on around you instant shields are godly. Anyone that says you can't heal stupid hasn't farmed Rav EX in DF with a good Noct AST.

Damn... And you remain one dark point that I would love tonsee remove to kill the whm more XD
The non-stackable aspected diurnal helios...
Back in gordias my co-heal WHM tried to go in A1S as AST and we both went diurnal
Bad surprise to see each other overwriting the other...

Why Does medica2 stack and not aspected helios.... *sulk*

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Originally Posted by GeekMatt

I wrote up a guide on AST Sects on FFXIVRealm with a great pun in the title that if I type here may get me banned.

Noct is a powerful stance, and I wouldn't trust your friends math. However, Diurnal is always viable (unless there's another AST in that stance) and since Diurnal offers better MP management and better DPS it's hard to justify using Noct. However, there are certain fights where I feel that Noct is more powerful as far as strictly healing. It's what I used back when I first started solo healing Rav EX—with the hard hits and long pauses between the serious blows, shields really shine over regens.

Also, if you're aware of what's going on around you instant shields are godly. Anyone that says you can't heal stupid hasn't farmed Rav EX in DF with a good Noct AST.

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http://ffxivrealm.com/guides/a-virgi...ast-sects.186/

Guess its this guide?

Just to point out, in the section about nocturnal sect, the 100hp Aspected Benefic in Nocturnal Sect will in fact shield for 130 points, not 100. (shield of N.A.Ben = 130% of heal) :).

I tend to Lightspeed with Gravity in dungeons.

Lightspeed is good for topping up everyone and quickly popping a protect and stoneskin on someone that was just rezzed.

I don't care which stance i'm using. Whenever I have to use Nocturnal due to party composition I don't really think omg i have to use that awful stance.

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

http://ffxivrealm.com/guides/a-virgi...ast-sects.186/

Guess its this guide?

Just to point out, in the section about nocturnal sect, the 100hp Aspected Benefic in Nocturnal Sect will in fact shield for 130 points, not 100. (shield of N.A.Ben = 130% of heal) :).

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I need to fix/clarify that for Aspected Benefic specifically, ty.

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Originally Posted by GeekMatt

I need to fix/clarify that for Aspected Benefic specifically, ty.

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NP :). Hoepfully new AST will maybe give it a read, as quite a lot of them dont seem to understand what sect function/doesnt function with which co-healer. (At least the oens i come across in df dont......the amount of times i have been on sch and the ast uses nocturnal makes me scream).

Lightspeed + gravity
Less mana burn but less DPS output... Depends of the group.

Noct AST + SCH is viable... Only if the AST is only pure raw heal like a whm without HoT
Taking advantage of the 5% bonus

But you need to know your job to do that X3

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

Lightspeed + gravity
Less mana burn but less DPS output... Depends of the group.

Noct AST + SCH is viable... Only if the AST is only pure raw heal like a whm without HoT
Taking advantage of the 5% bonus

But you need to know your job to do that X3

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Problem with N.AST + SCH is that you are losing out on the MP efficiency through D.AST HoTs. Its not somehting i would ever recommend doing. The 5% bonus is something that kind of looks nice on paper, but then has very little impact in game. Its only very rare circumstances where that extra 5% on the shield actually saves someone.

Clearly yes
The diurnal is always good in mana efficience so yeah it is wisely recommanded to go diurnal/SCH
But i was just saying that on a not so hard and masteted fight it can be done.

But yeah completely crazy in case of raid progression

I think double AST could be a strong duo but seems like there is not so much static willing to go there.
(But you need a perfect sync for the card to avoid overwriting.)

Kinda like that awesome Midas run WE did Darkmoon. (One of the few one where I did not struggle healing...)

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

Clearly yes
The diurnal is always good in mana efficience so yeah it is wisely recommanded to go diurnal/SCH
But i was just saying that on a not so hard and masteted fight it can be done.

But yeah completely crazy in case of raid progression

I think double AST could be a strong duo but seems like there is not so much static willing to go there.
(But you need a perfect sync for the card to avoid overwriting.)

Kinda like that awesome Midas run WE did Darkmoon. (One of the few one where I did not struggle healing...)

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I think the devs scared themselves a little with AST when designing which is why we not only got it introduced to the game in a terrible state, but is also why the functionality of AST/AST has been made to work as hard as possible. Cards overwriting each other, HoTs not stacking etc etc etc.

Yeah that run of A8 was fun and went well, but its more to do with two people healing who knew what they were doing. I have done A8 before in DF, had a WHM partner, gone into Nocturnal to find the WHM doesnt use regen, medica II, medica, assylum or assize for the entire fight.......boy that went well.