Surecast and Blizzard II buffs

I was thinking about some buffs in two skills

Surecast:
Unable to stop cast even if you are stunned, confusing, sleeping and etc...
Only way to cancel spell with surecast is: cancel button (esc in PC) or death
Edit: Walking shouldn't cancel too

Blizzard II:
Additional Effect: Ice damage over time
Potency: 40~20
Duration: 20s

On one hand I can get behind these buffs. They're subtle and not out of the realm of reason. On the other hand I don't think blm needs anything right now, they're pretty good as is.

Thanks for your feedback, Archbishop.
I just want found some utility to these skills... I mean, they have, but if I remember well, bind dont work in some adds and surecast don't work if I walk.

Blizzard II used to be stronger, but the potency was reduced because the devs wanted players to use it for AoE binds rather than damage spam. I think a little DoT added on wouldn;t make it OP, but at the same time running into range to use it would probably be a net DPS loss (though SMNs still use this for AoEs I believe).

As for Surecast, at the very least I would like to see it not interrupt casting when moving.

Remember that Summoners and healers use BLM cross class, which includes those abilities. Those Blizzard 2 buffs would take it from 50 potency to 170 or 290 total for an AoE. That is quite a bit in general, and may not feel like it to a BLM (I don't play BLM so I wouldn't know), but it would be a lot for other classes. For a frame of reference, SMN and SCH have their own AoE around caster with DoT ability, Miasma II, which has a whopping total potency of 70.

BUFF FREEZE. That is all.

Although I do agree. Surecast should prevent interrupts from knockback, paralysis, petrification, even death. The works just to illustrate you will be getting this spell off even if it kills you.

It could be changed via traits for the blm rather than adding to the base ability. That would prevent it from becoming overpowered on other cross classes

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

Remember that Summoners and healers use BLM cross class, which includes those abilities. Those Blizzard 2 buffs would take it from 50 potency to 170 or 290 total for an AoE. That is quite a bit in general, and may not feel like it to a BLM (I don't play BLM so I wouldn't know), but it would be a lot for other classes. For a frame of reference, SMN and SCH have their own AoE around caster with DoT ability, Miasma II, which has a whopping total potency of 70.

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But the potency is from DoT, if you're spamming it for the initial damage, the DoT keeps resetting, so it's not as much potency as you think. Right now, people Blizz 2 spam adds after debuffs/heals are up, so it's not as drastic of a potency increase as you think.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

But the potency is from DoT, if you're spamming it for the initial damage, the DoT keeps resetting, so it's not as much potency as you think. Right now, people Blizz 2 spam adds after debuffs/heals are up, so it's not as drastic of a potency increase as you think.

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Dots in this game tick server side every three seconds, all of them at the same time. Casting stuff again only resets the duration, but not the ticks, keeping the dot still rolling. It's because because dots don't stack with itself from the same source, it wouldn't be a huge buff, but a buff nonetheless; B2 is still the best spammable AoE spell for Summoners.

Now if Freeze had a 20p+/21s (240p+ total with base) dot on it, we could actually do F3 F2 F2 Flare Transpose Freeze F3 F2 Flare Transpose repeat AoE rotation. Maybe next expansion with Freeze 2 or something.

The Blizzard II buff would only be balanced if it was a THM only trait upgrade as SMN especially would stand to benefit massively from that change.

The Surecast changes though I fully agree on. In my opinion if you're casting under Surecast nothing short of death or losing your target should interrupt you.

Buff Freeze Pot to like 200 or 300. Otherwise PvP skill.

That would be too much potency. Instead having freeze apply a dot (20sec duration, overall weaker than thunder and only thunder or freeze dot can be up at the same time) and grant 3 umbral ice stacks, that would be pretty great.

Freeze needs to grant umbral ice III. It wouldn't hurt to have a little more potency either.

Surecast is ok. It would be really nice if you could move and cast with it. Debuffs like stun, sleep, and silence should still do their thing. BLM traits let use use this a lot, it has a proc to reset its cooldown.

B2 is ok. It'd be nice if it had 60-80 potency because then we might use it in our aoe rotation more, at least at sub 50 levels. Its more of a debuff than an attack.

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Originally Posted by Cherub

That would be too much potency. Instead having freeze apply a dot (20sec duration, overall weaker than thunder and only thunder or freeze dot can be up at the same time) and grant 3 umbral ice stacks, that would be pretty great.

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Add Deep Freeze status effect instead and we can keep your sissy potency on the ancient level ice spell.

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Originally Posted by LucentLagombi

On one hand I can get behind these buffs. They're subtle and not out of the realm of reason. On the other hand I don't think blm needs anything right now, they're pretty good as is.

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I don't see how these would be subtle... These changes would mean being unable to even stun-save yourself from a killing Fire IV, or just pop Surecast and stand immune to all loss-of-control CCs while running about. Heck, you can now use it as an alternate Swiftcast for mobility ("walking shouldn't cancel either"). A single Blizzard II would now deal more total potency than a Flare, apart from lacking the AF multiplier. That's far from subtle.

Just making it so Surecast is consumed on its completed cast rather than on cast attempt would be a significant buff for dealing with movement, etc. Honestly, I feel like that's where the 15% anti-cast threshold (as a lingering effect thereafter) should have been applied. Alternatively, you can buff the no-cooldown chance from 15% to 30% or so, or spend the trait on Blizzard II instead, buffing it back to 80 to 120 potency (and buff Freeze while you're at it to 220 or so, or place the DoT there). [Blizzard II still remains substantially behind Fire II's 150 potency per target per GCD (per 2.5s, not per cast, mind you).] Those would be subtle buffs.

I'd rather they buff Freeze so that's it's not complete trash and unused by every BLM in the game. Hell when I first got it I thought it was gonna be like Hailstorm in TERA (or if you want to compare it to something in FFXIV, Bard's fire arrow).

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Originally Posted by VitalSuit

I'd rather they buff Freeze so that's it's not complete trash and unused by every BLM in the game. Hell when I first got it I thought it was gonna be like Hailstorm in TERA (or if you want to compare it to something in FFXIV, Bard's fire arrow).

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EVERYONE thought it would work like that. But then it didn't.

I'd like to see some changes to thunder procs. I don't even know why t1 and t2 have the option of using as a proc, whenever you get a proc it only makes sense to use it as t3.
Feel its a bit of a missed opportunity. The other two could do something slightly different, so you could choose which to use in any given situation.

Maybe t1 proc could forego the "upfront" dot damage added to the proc, but instead just apply a thunder dot to all mobs near target. Good for aoe situations and almost certainly ensures you'll hit another proc again.
t2 could remain as it is but reset convert CD or extend enoch by 5-10(?) secs.

Don't really know, just think they could make t1 & t2 procs a bit more interesting

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

I'd like to see some changes to thunder procs. I don't even know why t1 and t2 have the option of using as a proc, whenever you get a proc it only makes sense to use it as t3.
Feel its a bit of a missed opportunity. The other two could do something slightly different, so you could choose which to use in any given situation.

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Level sync and leveling, though you don't get TC until after T2. Then again I'm sure TC and T2 used to be a lot lower level in beta (I remember using both in Tam-Tara), and all levels of Thunder stacked.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Level sync and leveling, though you don't get TC until after T2. Then again I'm sure TC and T2 used to be a lot lower level in beta (I remember using both in Tam-Tara), and all levels of Thunder stacked.

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I realise you won't have t3 whilst levelling. I still think it's a shame that two abilities become completely redundant when you do get t3 though.
Having them do different things could also give some utility to the times you get a very quick proc (ie it is a dps loss to reapply it and completely clip your previous dot), you'd be able to do something else with it at least

I personally believe they need to rework some spell as they are either too situational or too weak
I don't see the point of having two Ice AoE, one has a short cast and is melee range, and the other is range and has a longer cast (+ a root)
Personally, when I play BLM, I don't see the point of making me go melee to cast 1-2 very low dmg frost AoE. On top of that, most BLM would actually avoid casting these two spells or would only cast them once considering how fast our mana regen with UI3.
So instead of giving us 2 useless frost spell, they could rework at least one to make it useful and the other to be a viable aoe option. I know this will sound very cliché but, I would LOVE that Blizzard II actually works like a Frost Nova from WoW, i don't know about other BLM, but I've been personally very disappointed in the BLM ability to keep monsters at bay. Personally, face tanking everything is a bit dull and makes me wonder how the devs could be ok with that. (This logic could be applied to scholar and astro)

Freeze could actually become the way we switch to UI3 when we AoE, by that I mean, instead of doing a few fire2, then BLizzard3, then... freeze or thunder refresh or something, then Fire3 to respam our aoe. They could simply make that Freeze actually gives us the max amount of Umbral Ice and deal proper aoe dmg.

And Blizzard II would actually our Frost Nova that would NOT break Astral Fire so that we can actually dps something, freeze it, move away, then dps again. Like... you know, a range not wanting to tank every monster after 2 spells.

Scathe is also one of those useless spell in the sense that you'll rarely move long enough to make it worth to spam this spell. I'd rather see it with a much higher potency but a cooldown. So when I have to move it is worth it.

Following the list of, (imo) useless spells.
Thunder2 and Thunder3. They're literally Thunder1 with more dps....
No one ever use Thunder2 and Thunder1 is only used for quick DoT refresh. But gameplay wise, we have 3 times the same spell. Personally, they should rework thunder 2 and 3 (if not remove). I believe that making Thunder2 work like Freeze (but you get Lightning storm, like in FF13 for instance) and apply the lightning dot to all hit target would make it a great spell. I do not say we should be able to aoe dot every like the summoner does, he still has 3dots, 4 if he goes in melee. It's more about giving us a spell that is different and makes sense We have 3 lightning spell and none of them calls for lightning strike. Considering Thunder3, if we have the single target and aoe thunder, I don't really see what they could do with it... We already have OP burst aoe, Flare, so I don't really know, consuming dot wouldn't feel too BLM, that's usually something DoT class do. Removing it wouldn't hurt, gameplay wise we would still have our dot that procs a big burst and an aoe dot. there are loads of things they could add for more single target or aoe but... honestly, BLM has more than enough assuming they would rework thunder2 as an aoe tool, with Fire2, Blizzard2, Flare and thunder2, I don't feel we would need more aoe.

Lethargy is also one of those spell you forget are available... 20% you apply a 20% slow every 30sec...Ok fine, you reduce the casting time, 20% is enough for pvp. But for pve / farming... 20% ? How is that even helpful, casting this spell gives the slowed monster 2.5sec of free movement while you're not doing anything. So unless you actually back for 2.5sec, and start casting again, the only thing this spell may do is spare you one hit from the monster. And lv 42... We learn that level 42. That's the kind of thing you want early. Not lv 42 when you have loads of burst and shields

Will never happen but make FS/TC procs Ogcd.

I do think Bliz2 and Freeze need a rework.

And not something like SMN's tridisaster bullshit. That was lazy.

Sure cast should save you from knock backs and pull-ins but not from when you yourself start running.

A Bliz2 buff on tooltip not THM/BLM only??!?!?!?!!?!???!?!

Locks onto SMN bar and runs with it

tyvm

Still working my way up, but I have some different ideas about what could be done.

Surecast: It could have a few seconds of effect that allows a cast (or possibly a small series of 2-3 casts) to sustain through movement. Aside from the standard lesson that we are to avoid AoE's even if we break our cast, this would be a help for dancing instances like Sephirot Ex where mages and melee lose a bit of their edge to the ranged physical dps of the party. I imagine that casting Scathe must feel shameful but necessary at the same time.

Blizzard II: Heavily reduced or no enmity generation. It's still weak but if you pull hate, you can still put something out without making matters even more complicated for the tank. May need to be uninterruptable. The only reason I like this more is that it's more of a way to ease the casters danger if approached (and therefore not having to move away from friendly/ground buffs), rather than encouraging them to go somewhere that would normally be considered a pointless risk.

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Originally Posted by Cooperal

Blizzard II: Heavily reduced or no enmity generation. It's still weak but if you pull hate, you can still put something out without making matters even more complicated for the tank. May need to be uninterruptable. The only reason I like this more is that it's more of a way to ease the casters danger if approached (and therefore not having to move away from friendly/ground buffs), rather than encouraging them to go somewhere that would normally be considered a pointless risk.

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It already is heavily reduced enmity compared to normal BLM rotation -- it deals about two to three damage.