[Suggestion] Fuse bonus attributes / solve SMN/SCH issue

Hi,

I'm playing very often SMN / SCH, and I'm sick of switching my bonus points between intel / mind, and using up all my company seals doing so.

It also seems to starle new players too :
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...olar-newb-halp!

My suggestion : fuse intelligence and mind bonuses into magic potency giving both (30 magic potency = 30 intel + 30 mind), and to be fair, fuse strength and dexterity the same way into physical potency.
EDIT: I must specify I'm not asking to fuse them on the whole system, but only for bonus stats.

The same way, please make ACN traits give both mind and intelligence.

Classes who need mind won't make real use of so little intelligence points, and the other way around is true too. Anyways, as Scholars we DPS in cleric stance so only mind matters, and 30 bonus points of mind won't make the summoner or black mage into healers.

This should also not be difficult to implement, so please mind ;) us !

If you don't like switching pick one you like and stick to it or continue to use the easily obtained hymns. No other class can you freely switch between healer and dps. It is a privilege and doesn't warrant changing the stat system so much.


At most they could have the hymn be used in the free stat allocation screen and have a "remaining points in this stat" button.

All classes allow to easily switch between healer and DPS, I don't need a shared XP bar to level up, and I've been in the game since august 2013....
So please don't say it's a privilege ^^

Why should I pick ? :confused:
I'll gladly level up again the whole class to avoid using up all my seals and the hassle of changing all the time.

As in, actually make int and mnd the one and the same stat overall, or making a separate stat that only works for BONUS POINTS giving you both int and mnd?
Because, if it's the first option, I'm not really going to like having a random summoner doing my job for me instead of focusing on DPS... that messes a bit (lot) with the holy trinity thing this game has going on and imo it's going to blur considerably the line between healer and caster...

The hymns are like, what, 200 GC seals anyway? You can buy a couple of those by trading in a single drop from an expert roulette dungeon, i don't see why merging two stats together would be necessary...

And as a healer, if stance dancing is so much trouble for you you should probably just focus on healing anyway rather than risk wiping the team. :/

If your suggestion falls on merging only the bonus points though, this would be okay, but still entirely unnecessary imo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sento-Frost

All classes allow to easily switch between healer and DPS, I don't need a shared XP bar to level up, and I've been in the game since august 2013....
So please don't say it's a privilege ^^

Why should I pick ? :confused:
I'll gladly level up again the whole class to avoid using up all my seals and the hassle of changing all the time.

---

You can't be on BLM decide that you want to be a healer and put in another soul stone for a thamauturge and be a healer. Arcanists are one single class that becomes 2 separate jobs. That's what I mean by privilege. Maybe you could argue that they keep stat allocations on jobs separate from their class. Example:

Arcanist is full VIT (for example purposes.)
With SCH soulstone you start with all 30 of your free stats and go full mind
With SMN same as above but full INT.
Switching back to ACN would bring you back to your +30 vit.

I just mean that I don't care about a privilegeif the drawback is that huge ^^

As a summoner main who plays scholar... it does suck having to remember to swap stats, but it's not like it's hard to do. Hymns are so ridiculously cheap compared to the 1 or 2k they used to cost. My 201 sch physick on average 3100 with 35 points of mind. With 35 points int it's about 3k on average... if you really don't want to swap just pick a stat and keep it there.

A bit of logic: Of all the healers, scholars can fight the most through their damaging spells, so INT would be more beneficial for both classes, which is something worth keeping in mind.

The only thing is though if they combine stats it'll be like the tank nerf and it'll throw the game balance off.

SMN/SCH was badly designed and it's why they dumped the idea of branching jobs in the future. Personally I think they should just do away with stat allocation completely and just give everyone extra of their main stat as they level. It's not like there's any real choice there. your "choice" is between, your primary stat for damage/healing, VIT for hp or PIE for mp. Every other stat is useless to you and no one is really going to allocate to VIT or PIE over damage so there's no point in being given the option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Suirieko

A bit of logic: Of all the healers, scholars can fight the most through their damaging spells, so INT would be more beneficial for both classes, which is something worth keeping in mind.

---

This is where you find out that someone doesnt quite know what cleric stance does.

Cleric stance swaps mind and int. If you spec into int on sch, then hit cleric stance, that int is no longer contributing to dps, at all.........

And the int also contributes nothing to your healing.

Meaning int is a dead stat on sch.

Back on topic. The reward of having a dps and healer class level as one far outweighs having to swap stats around if you want to use both.

We already have job-based bonus stat allotments a la AST, MCH, DRK. Why not just do the same for all other jobs, rather than carrying over their source class bonus stats?

You know... rather than removing Cleric Stance and all differences in dps accessories.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Suirieko

A bit of logic: Of all the healers, scholars can fight the most through their damaging spells, so INT would be more beneficial for both classes, which is something worth keeping in mind.

---

If you have less MND, you have less INT as any healer.

Just don't switch it. Pic one stat. There's no much change on putting those point into mind so you could use it on INT

the itens from the GC arent that expencive npw , 250gil lol .

I was going to disagree with you, saying that it would make DPS too effective as healers, but then I remembered that generally DPS classes don't have access to high-poetency healing spells and vice versa.

Thinking about it, this would solve the issue of useless stats (str on archer).

I agree.

The design intent of ACN was what SE has since conceded as being a failed experiment in terms of how to implement future Jobs in the game. I would hardly call that a privilege, honestly. Like Sento said, you can already freely switch to DPS or Healer due to the Armoury system. If this game was designed that you could only play as one Class -> Job per Character, then ACN's '1 Class -> 2 Jobs' feature would indeed stand out.

I agree the bonus attribute system should be changed, and I'd go even further and say that for all classes it should be scrapped since there's no attempt at a real choice or customisation involved. Does a BLM have any choice besides +35 INT? No. Does a BRD/MCH/NIN have any choice besides +35 DEX? No. Does a Tank have any choice besides... oh, wait they did with either +35 VIT/STR but SE saw fit to put an end to that to where VIT is the only choice.

Sento's idea might be a decent compromise though. Scrap the bonus attributes and just automatically add it to the main stat gains you get as you level up under the Traits menu. ACN, meanwhile, instead of 'Enhanced INT I/II/III' etc. gets 'Enhanced [something]' that adds a total of +35 INT/MND in level increments, up to Level 60. They already have the concept with 'Maim and Mend' which raises base damage and healing by 30% for you and the Pets, so it's not like it would be out of place or that the extra MND that SMN will get (and vice versa) will be significant enough to give those Jobs an unfair advantage.

Revamping the stat system like that simply isn't going to happen.

I would like to see some kind of change though, like making it so SMN and SCH can have their stat points allocated differently.

Someone in this thread mistyped that keepers hymns were 250 Gil instead of GC seals. If these things became purchasable with Gil that cheaply, few could complain about the cost although the hassle is still a factor.

Much easier to make it so equipping a SCH soul stone goes to a separate allocation of bonus points.

Well I'm sorry azellas but if you switch multiple times per day, it's a seal sink. Why should we have to waste our seals while other don't ?
And don't tell me about the shared XP / level, it's really not such a great advantage when you've been playing more than 2 years to the game.
I'm a personal and main CL crafter and I need my seals for something else than coping for a design flaw.

Well, for starters, to solve this issue of seal sink, make the hymn free.
But even with the hymn free, it's a pain to go through the hassle of changing bonus stats every dungeon.


My suggestion will not - like I read - "completely disbalance the game" I'm sorry, DEX is useless to MNK/DRK, STR is uselsess to NIN/MCH/BRD, INT is useless to healers (yes, we DPS in cleric, don't forget it swaps MND/INT), and 35 MND really won't change anything to our Physic....

On a personal note, I feel like some scholars / summoners here have stockholm syndrom !
If you like it the way it is, then don't post just to say "no we don't want you to fix this for people it bothers", it's really unappealing, and my suggestion won't make it painful for you to play, on the contrary.

If you are not SCH/SMN and feel I'm overstating it, well just try it.
If you feel it's ok to lose 35 points of your main stat when you switch and "just choose" as I read, then remove one accessory and watch your global iLvL, test your DPS / Healing potency.


Anyways, as FeliAiko said, it's not like we really have a choice, any other choice than INT as DPS mage, MND as healer, VIT as tank, DEX as NIN/MCH/BRD or STR as DRG/MNK is useless. Well maybe you can go PIE as healer or BLM if you want to but I feel it's a waste.
My suggestion still keep a choice and simplify things, solving the SCH/SMN issue :

• Magic potency (giving MND + INT)
• Physical potency (STR + DEX)
• Vitality
• Piety

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Suirieko

A bit of logic: Of all the healers, scholars can fight the most through their damaging spells, so INT would be more beneficial for both classes, which is something worth keeping in mind.

---

Actually using cleric stance would negate the extra 30 int soooooooo, but yea to the OP,its not hard to get the hymms at all, takes me about a month to use a stack up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sento-Frost

My suggestion still keep a choice and simplify things, solving the SCH/SMN issue :

• Magic potency (giving MND + INT)
• Physical potency (STR + DEX)
• Vitality
• Piety

---

It seems you really don't realize how much this would change the balance of the game. If both healing and offensive magic fed off of the same "magic potency" stat, then a SMN or BLM would heal just as much with a Physick as a SCH. If you can't see how that is a significant change to the game design and not just a way to remove the inconvenience of using hymns, then this conversation isn't going to be terribly productive.

There are two viable solutions to the original issue:
1. Make SCH have a separate bonus stat pool from ACN/SMN. This is the simplest and has no unintended consequences.
2. Remove the bonus stat system altogether and adjust level scaling to give people 35 more points of their primary stat by level 60.

Well, can you read thoroughly please ?
I'm not asking to fuse stats, I'm asking to fuse BONUS stats.

This would nealy be a cosmetic request, the interface show us a meta bonus stat instead of direct stats, and in the backend, 1 meta equals 1 point of each stat.
Just for bonus stats ! Of course I'm not dumb and asking to fuse overall everywhere mind and intelligence :rolleyes:

If you use both SMN and SCH keep the all the bonus stat on INT. 35 MND is barely noticeable, INT is way better.

Will you stop answering that please ? it's not an option !
If you don't mind having 35 points less in your main stat, why don't you remove an accessory when you play ^^

I think it would be fine for the Bonus points to work as you suggested. (i.e. Only for Bonus stats)

Otherwise, they could just remove the need for an item to reallocate your bonus stats, and allow you to simply change them anytime you're not in a duty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sento-Frost

Will you stop answering that please ? it's not an option !
If you don't mind having 35 points less in your main stat, why don't you remove an accessory when you play ^^

---

How is it not an option? It's an option alright, you just don't like it.

That's also a solution AxelDH, it'd not remove the hassle but would solve the cost issue indeed. But if they're altering things I'd rather have them find a solution to avoid SCH/SMN being forced to reassign bonus points on each duty ^^

kaox, yeah ok, it's an option, let's run all around naked ! :D
People spend millions for materias to meld less main stat points you ask all SCH/SMN to forsake here ^^

Bonus stats are so incredibly pointless. The ONLY class that sometimes doesn't main stat dump is blm if they need a pie or two to break an mp threshhold. The bonus stats hold no point other making sch/smn annoying to play together and thats it. There is no real choice, because most stats do nothing for any given class. I really wish they would just work them naturally into the classes and call it a day, as nothing other than a stat overhaul would give it meaning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rawrz

You can't be on BLM decide that you want to be a healer and put in another soul stone for a thamauturge and be a healer. Arcanists are one single class that becomes 2 separate jobs. That's what I mean by privilege.

---

Personally I don't feel as if it's a privilege at all. I'd rather level up SMN seperately since leveling as SCH for faster que lead to me sucking at SMN pretty bad, having to pick up a whole new set of skills at 60 because from 30-60 I never used SMN at all.

the leveling process helps a lot in learning a job and just jumping in max level with 10 new skills, new CC abilities and a new raid role is rough not worth the "privilege" when you account for the need for hymns and the loss of the leveling a class experience.

See, i just don't see that much of an issue. Why? because, they way gear works in this game, your going to more or less have one real main job, that's geared, that you use to raid with, if raiding is your thing, and really, end game raiding is the only time 35 points of anything will matter much one way or the other. For regular leveling, or DF runs, that 35 points you worrying about means NOTHING. So, my suggestion? Whatever job you seriously raid on, drop the points in. You'll still have more then enough ability in the other job to get the basic stuff done with NO PROBLEM. If you don't seriously raid... split it. Nothing short of the endgame savage mode raid is hard enough to sweat 35 points.

Well it's always wasted DPS - and thus time - when you play summoner if you're putting them into mind because scholar is your main.
True it's not a very serious issue, like tanks not being able to keep aggro, but it is an unnecessary and unfair loss of main stat where the game is all about maximising them.

Problem can be solved very easily, there have been plenty of suggestions and solutions in this thread.
I don't see why we should just suck it up because some find it is ok to loose main stat points.
Obviously it's bothering some of us.