DEVS: Craftmanship vs. Magic craftmanship, please help us identify!

Hello Dev Team =),
First of all, you guys have been doing a fantastic job in every aspect of the game, loving the game more and more with every patch and super excited to see what awesome content you come up with next!

With each patch the dev team is becoming more and more transparent, revealing to us some of the previously hidden inner workings of the game mechanics. However, which recipes require Craftmanship vs, which recipes require Magic Craftmanship remains a total mystery.

So could you please implement some sort of system where we can understand what recipes need what stat? The easy way would just be to eliminate one or the other, but im sure noone wants that. Id love to be able to have two sets of crafting gear, one geared towards craftmanship and one geared towards magic craftmanship. Being that there are multiple pieces that boost each stat for various levels, It would probably boost the crafter's economy as well.

This is something that has bothered crafters since day one really, and with the randomness of synthesis it is hard to effectively test.

Please help us out devs! Especially with the new 51-60 recipes it would be more helpful than ever before!

Like this post if you would appreciate the devs unveiling this mystery. Keep up the great work devs!

Yeah nowadays (or...since the beginning, rather) I try to balance both when I craft, but if I notice a lot of botching, I boost Craftsmanship up without caring about Mg.Craftsmanship. If that doesn't work, I switch over to boost Mg.Craftsmanship instead. I believe many crafters are using academic guessing like me LOL.

The recipes are divided into "families" of items.
All wearable rings are for example magic craftsmanship. So you don't really have to identify every single recipe.

1.19 appeared to have reduce slightly reduce the impact of craftsmanship on recipes, so you get more <20 for progress numbers. This makes the differences slightly more obvious if you don't watch TV while crafting.

I think every respectable crafter will have their own list of recipes categorized by now. Whether they share it or not, is another question though.

It seems most of the Cobalt armor recipes are magic craftmanship, while the materials to make them are craftmanship. THe only real testing ive done for this is Cobalt Mesail vs. Woolen Beret though, and the differences arent really that substantial as to say its definite one way or the other.

Cmoooon Devs or Bayohn e or somebody...Id even settle for the generic "We are looking into it" lol.

A LONG time ago I read a thread where someone mentioned a way to detect if its craft v mag craft. Example: If your synthesis only requires Earth shards/crystals, and if you destablilize an element and its ONLY ever earth that destabilizes, its craftmanship. However, same synth with only earth sgards in the recipes, and you destabilize a different ele like lightning or wind or something, than its magic craft. Through my own observations this seems to make sense, anybody that can back this up?

I gather my data using the average % progress and the very-subjective...# of de-stabilizations per synth.

I would sooner see them consolidate control, craftmanship and mag craftmanship into one stat.

There is no need for crafting to have 3 stats, same goes for gathering.

So we would just have craftmanship, gathering and then the stats which effect your class such as (VIT,MND,PIE,INT,STR,DEX)

It's a typical example of SE making things more complex than they should be, I'm sure I will meet some resistance from suggesting this, seeing as the community hates change.

I wholly appreciate the complexity, would even support there being more (but not much more), as long as we had a clear way to master said complexity.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I would sooner see them consolidate control, craftmanship and mag craftmanship into one stat.

There is no need for crafting to have 3 stats, same goes for gathering.

So we would just have craftmanship, gathering and then the stats which effect your class such as (VIT,MND,PIE,INT,STR,DEX)

It's a typical example of SE making things more complex than they should be, I'm sure I will meet some resistance from suggesting this, seeing as the community hates change.

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I wouldn't mind if they consolidated craftsmanship and mg. craftsmanship into a single stat, but moving to a single stat unique to crafting seems to be a little overkill. It would also be nice if the game just told you which recipe uses which stat, but as is the case for much of the game, a new player is just given the means and told to figure it out for themselves. What actually happens is wasted time browsing the internet trying to find basic information that should be given to players in the first place.

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Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

I wouldn't mind if they consolidated craftsmanship and mg. craftsmanship into a single stat, but moving to a single stat unique to crafting seems to be a little overkill. It would also be nice if the game just told you which recipe uses which stat, but as is the case for much of the game, a new player is just given the means and told to figure it out for themselves. What actually happens is wasted time browsing the internet trying to find basic information that should be given to players in the first place.

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I don't think it would matter if the recipe told us, the majority would not have 2 sets (3 if you have a control set) just to make certain items.

as I said previously main stats have an effect on quality supposedly, there is just too many variables IMO.

Right now I have gear for 4 fighting classes, 3 gathering classes and 1 crafting class, thankfully Mining and Botany share the same gear set, but if I had to throw in another set for crafting I would probably be over 100 inventory slots for just armour and weapons.

As of 1.19 if you are leveling two crafts and they are different levels, say one is r20 and one is r40, you are going to need two different sets anyways.

As a level 50 ARM, I would totally have one set geared towards craftmanship and one set geared towards magic craftmanship, even different materia on each eventually.

Maybe a community rep can tell me how to get this on an "ask the devs" session, WITHOUT having to use Twitter please?

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I would sooner see them consolidate control, craftmanship and mag craftmanship into one stat.

There is no need for crafting to have 3 stats, same goes for gathering.

So we would just have craftmanship, gathering and then the stats which effect your class such as (VIT,MND,PIE,INT,STR,DEX)

It's a typical example of SE making things more complex than they should be, I'm sure I will meet some resistance from suggesting this, seeing as the community hates change.

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I hate unnecessary dumbing down of systems. By that same mindset, there'd be no need for things such as acc, crit, etc. To me, having a more diverse range of stats gives me slightly more character customization, which I always welcome.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

I hate unnecessary dumbing down of systems. By that same mindset, there'd be no need for things such as acc, crit, etc. To me, having a more diverse range of stats gives me slightly more character customization, which I always welcome.

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Well thats just silly, there is always a need for accuracy and criticals, its part of pretty much all MMO's and most RPG's.

Crafting/gathering classes should have never been a main class and shoudln't be treated as such, but of course thats just my opinion, dumbing them down would be the best thing the dev team could do, and from what I gather of Yoshi-p's interviews he intends to do just that.

The problem with the crafting stats is obvious.

Gathering is an example of a system done more right. When you're gathering, perception, output and gathering will ALL help you, no matter what (even if gathering seems mostly useless, to me).

On the other hand, for crafting some synths will not benefit from a single stat at all. That's just plain bad design. As a DoH you already have to carry a diff set for almost every diff job. But to then double that number because of craft / mag craft is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

The problem with the crafting stats is obvious.

Gathering is an example of a system done more right. When you're gathering, perception, output and gathering will ALL help you, no matter what (even if gathering seems mostly useless, to me).

On the other hand, for crafting some synths will not benefit from a single stat at all. That's just plain bad design. As a DoH you already have to carry a diff set for almost every diff job. But to then double that number because of craft / mag craft is ridiculous.

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Represent. I like the design of the gathering stats, if they only showed the player ingame how they work it'd be a pretty decent system. Gearing for output kinda reminds me of trying to stay hit-capped in "other" games without exceeding it too far and wasting points, which makes for interesting gear decisions. Even gathering has a kinda niche use for secondary nodes(quarrying/spearfishing/harvesting), though im probably not going to invest the inventory space in carrying around a different gear layout for that.

Crafting stats on the other hand...even after they've said what they do a few times, I still don't know how to gear, or in what proportions. Craftsmanship and magic craftsmanship should be consolidated, its a dumb mechanic that punishes the player for not being psychic as it currently stands.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Well thats just silly, there is always a need for accuracy and criticals, its part of pretty much all MMO's and most RPG's.

Crafting/gathering classes should have never been a main class and shoudln't be treated as such, but of course thats just my opinion, dumbing them down would be the best thing the dev team could do, and from what I gather of Yoshi-p's interviews he intends to do just that.

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problem is your entire premise is based around the idea, that you want crafting to be an afterthought.

It is not

Control is a very important and different stat than craftsmanship, it really should not be merged with it.

Now magic and regular craftsmanship.... ehhh i dont love its implementation that much. I would prefer it to be a different effect, rather than a one or the other thing.

but crafting is something you have to do a lot of, as such it should be a little more involved than not. If they were to simplify the stats, they would have to add some complexity and depth to some other aspect.

Essentially i would prefer a different mechanic for magic and regular craftsmanship, however i think there needs to be at least 3 elements that have an effect on crafting that you can control statwise.

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Originally Posted by Physic

problem is your entire premise is based around the idea, that you want crafting to be an afterthought.

It is not

Control is a very important and different stat than craftsmanship, it really should not be merged with it.

Now magic and regular craftsmanship.... ehhh i dont love its implementation that much. I would prefer it to be a different effect, rather than a one or the other thing.

but crafting is something you have to do a lot of, as such it should be a little more involved than not. If they were to simplify the stats, they would have to add some complexity and depth to some other aspect.

Essentially i would prefer a different mechanic for magic and regular craftsmanship, however i think there needs to be at least 3 elements that have an effect on crafting that you can control statwise.

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You do realise they plan to completely redo the crafting system.

One will be extremely "dumbed down" with almost no chance of botches and the other will be primarily for HQing items.

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Originally Posted by Yoshida

And one of the things we're planning is two different crafting systems. One that's very simplified and that you're going just for the item you need without having to worry about High Quality, with a small chance of High Quality. Then there's the other system, where it will take more time and effort, but the chance of getting that High Quality item will become higher. So the people who want to spend more time and do it carefully will have the higher chance of a High Quality, and then the people who want to get it done, they have the consolidated system.

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It makes you wonder that if Control is a stat designed for the sucess of crafting then whats the point in keeping it with the upcomming changes ?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You do realise they plan to completely redo the crafting system.

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[Citation needed]

Jinko showed me this on another thread, it's very informative: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107...-Transcription

Could you please just let us know which stat (craftsmanship or magic craftsmanship) affects which recipe, already?

After 1.19 came out, I had a community project where people submitted recipe levels to mooglebox. It was really successful, and we IDed thousands of recipe levels.

Should we do something like that for craft/m.craft?

It would be harder, 'cause a lot more data are required. Short of requiring screenshots, I'm not sure how to enforce diligent data-collection.

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Originally Posted by tymora

I gather my data using the average % progress and the very-subjective...# of de-stabilizations per synth.

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Besides requiring an adequate sample of synth attempts, we'd need to require a minimum difference of craftsmanship vs magic craftsmanship.

The more I think about it, the more impossible it seems to make this a group project. But if anyone can come up with a good system for it, I'd be happy to make the database and forms required for it.

Two separate Craftsmanship stats shouldn't exist, in my opinion. If they insist on having them both, at the very least explain to us which recipes uses which stat, or even better, make each Disciple of the Hand use Control and either Craftsmanship or Magic Craftsmanship. Square Enix has this nasty habit of wanting things be needlessly complex, which doesn't make things deep, it makes them convoluted and leads to a lot of superstition, like facing a certain direction while crafting influences your success rate.