4v4 or 8v8, which do you prefer?

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03-22-2016, 12:29 AM
Dyvid

4v4 or 8v8, which do you prefer?

Which version of the Feast do you enjoy playing more, 4v4 or 8v8?
03-22-2016, 12:43 AM
jonbo

Pre-made 4's and 8v8. Solo queue is a joke.
03-22-2016, 02:48 AM
Slappah

I've been having fun with solo 4s

I did a couple 8s and it was kinda fun, little too much of a cluster f for me though tbh.
I prefer smaller scale pvp, and I don't have a team so I haven't gotten a chance to do light party 4s
03-22-2016, 03:19 AM
RiceisNice

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbo

Pre-made 4's and 8v8. Solo queue is a joke.

This. More and more, I'm running into more people that do not know how the game mode functions (nor is it their first time), and typically fall back onto "stop being bad" when they're the ones at fault. Not sure if it's because I'm close to hitting silver and it's matching me with lesser ranks, or just the playerbase. Either way it just gets more frustrating.
03-22-2016, 04:42 AM
Dyvid

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbo

Pre-made 4's and 8v8. Solo queue is a joke.

Okay but say you wanted SE to focus on one version of the Feast, would you prefer the 4v4 or 8v8?
03-22-2016, 04:46 AM
Dimitrii

As bad as ranked 4 v 4 is I'll still play that over the watered down, noob carrying mode known as 8 v 8.
03-22-2016, 04:48 AM
Iagainsti

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

This. More and more, I'm running into more people that do not know how the game mode functions (nor is it their first time), and typically fall back onto "stop being bad" when they're the ones at fault. Not sure if it's because I'm close to hitting silver and it's matching me with lesser ranks, or just the playerbase. Either way it just gets more frustrating.

I had this happen yesterday(lazy sunday), 8 straight losses in solo, and I dropped from 430(soo close to Bronze) to 230( /cry), back to 8v8 xD, but again it's the rating system that's fault, not the player base imo.

On topic, I haven't done 4v4 matched since the first week, because of Scheduling with FC mates. What I do wish is 8v8 to up the player req from 2 to at least 4 if not 8. It's unranked so it really shouldn't matter how many people are queuing.

Off topic, how have the queues been for 4v4 light party?
03-22-2016, 04:53 AM
Dimitrii

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

I had this happen yesterday(lazy sunday), 8 straight losses in solo, and I dropped from 430(soo close to Bronze) to 230( /cry), back to 8v8 xD, but again it's the rating system that's fault, not the player base imo.

umm am I missing something? I could have sworn you don't lose points until you reach bronze if you are unranked. You also cannot fall below bronze once you do reach bronze.
03-22-2016, 05:12 AM
Iagainsti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

umm am I missing something? I could have sworn you don't lose points until you reach bronze if you are unranked. You also cannot fall below bronze once you do reach bronze.

Well I'm effed then, I could've sworn I was up in the 400s before yesterday. I wish there was a way to check it on XIVPVP or lodestone. If not, I guess I just have to beat the odds by playing more solo q
03-22-2016, 05:25 AM
Dimitrii

Reaching bronze basically just comes down to a battle of persistence. You spam it enough and you eventually will get the 20 wins you need to reach bronze since you can't lose points while unranked. That's why reaching bronze is nothing special actually. I have been stuck on bronze hovering between 800 and 1k points for a few days now unable to break through to silver which is the first real accomplishment in rank matches. My win rate is only 56% though as I queue as dragoon as opposed to healer.
03-22-2016, 05:38 AM
Iagainsti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Reaching bronze basically just comes down to a battle of persistence. You spam it enough and you eventually will get the 20 wins you need to reach bronze since you can't lose points while unranked. That's why reaching bronze is nothing special actually. I have been stuck on bronze hovering between 800 and 1k points for a few days now unable to break through to silver which is the first real accomplishment in rank matches. My win rate is only 56% though as I queue as dragoon as opposed to healer.

Ok, that makes sense, I can't confirm on lodestone, but im sure I only have 17 wins out of 35+ matches in solo Q. I can check the achievement but the majority of 43 wins would be from 8v8.
03-22-2016, 05:49 AM
Dimitrii

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Well I'm effed then, I could've sworn I was up in the 400s before yesterday. I wish there was a way to check it on XIVPVP or lodestone. If not, I guess I just have to beat the odds by playing more solo q

XIVPVP does keep track of some of the feast matches but only if someone in the lobby was running the client. I personally didn't wanna download the client which is why if u go to my page on there it'll only say I've participated in maybe only like 10 matches when I've actually been in over 70 thus far. But anyway now that I think about it my rank points are not a multiple of 25. Meaning I haven't been consistently losing 25 points in losses. So maybe you do lose points if opponent is same rank as you and you lose less points if they are higher ranked. Only thing I could think of to explain that but idk.
03-22-2016, 05:50 AM
Februs

8 vs 8 is fun, certainly, but the clusterf*ck of things happening on the screen takes away from it a bit. There's a ridiculous amount of floating text and far less emphasis on actually doing your job or playing tactically. Most people just jump the nearest target and go crazy, regardless of what their job is or if it's the smart thing to do.

By comparison, 4 vs 4 feels tighter and has a stronger emphasis on actual player skill. That emphasis makes the rounds much more intimidating to get into, but winning is far more satisfying.
03-22-2016, 05:58 AM
Iagainsti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Februs

8 vs 8 is fun, certainly, but the clusterf*ck of things happening on the screen takes away from it a bit. There's a ridiculous amount of floating text and far less emphasis on actually doing your job or playing tactically. Most people just jump the nearest target and go crazy, regardless of what their job is or if it's the smart thing to do.

I find the gameplay in 8v8 is more in tune with what happens when two full parties meet in Frontlines.

Also, getting rid of target lines, and filtering out certain floating texts would alleviate the fireworks, did for me.
I only see my damage numbers, and all status effects no matter the source, it cleans up the screen immensely.
03-22-2016, 06:11 AM
Februs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

I find the gameplay in 8v8 is more in tune with what happens when two full parties meet in Frontlines.

Exactly. It felt a little too similar to Frontlines to me. I even played an 8 vs 8 match in which both teams completely ignored the medal drops. My team won because I took the time to actually walk around the map and collect all the crap everyone else was ignoring, including the enemy. Don't get me wrong, FL is fun and all, but it can be a little too mindless at times. For players who just like to "Kill! Kill! Kill!" and nothing else, it's fine. When I'm in that mood, then 8 vs 8 is where it's at. Any other time, though, and 4 vs 4 is more satisfying, because I actually feel like I worked for my kills and wins in 4 vs 4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

getting rid of target lines, and filtering out certain floating texts would alleviate the fireworks, did for me. I only see my damage numbers, and all status effects no matter the source, it cleans up the screen immensely.

I considered doing this as well, but I opted against it because I like seeing these things during raids and trials. I might still do it though. The more I play, the more I find I'd prefer a streamlined display ... I just have to get over my paranoia of irreparably screwing up my UI settings. If there's a way to break my system config, I'm sure I'd find it. I'm techno talented like that.
03-22-2016, 06:30 AM
Iagainsti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Februs

it. I'm techno talented like that.

If I was home, I'd be able to copy the macro I use, but I'm at work, hence why I'm on the forums xD. They're all under the realm of /hud, anyway I agree as a tank the full text is necessary for raids, so I just have the macro in menu to execute when I know I'm doing pvp for a bit, then just turn it off again for PVE content.
I'll post it for Ya when I can.
03-22-2016, 07:57 AM
GrumbleBeard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

So maybe you do lose points if opponent is same rank as you and you lose less points if they are higher ranked. Only thing I could think of to explain that but idk.

I think that's what it may be. I've been stuck around the 700's-800's and am currently at 781. Sometimes I will win an only gain 24, sometimes I lose 26.
03-22-2016, 07:58 AM
KfLeX

8v8 just more action
03-22-2016, 10:13 AM
Cynric

I like how 4v4 plays more but I enjoy 8v8 more because I can duo it with my friend. Solo 4's is just kind of boring and stressful after a while, especially with the way rating goes.
03-22-2016, 12:53 PM
Isala

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

As bad as ranked 4 v 4 is I'll still play that over the watered down, noob carrying mode known as 8 v 8.

Truth. My GF and I both went in as Ranged classes. Her on SMN. Me on BRD. We coordinated our burst together, and obliterated the enemy team, one player at a time. Meanwhile, the derps in our party still managed to find some way to die horribly, usually out of LoS of the healers...
03-22-2016, 04:22 PM
jonbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyvid

Okay but say you wanted SE to focus on one version of the Feast, would you prefer the 4v4 or 8v8?

That's a tough choice. I really want both parts of ranked 4's to succeed, but I would probably have to pick 8v8 since it seems like it's something that more people can enjoy.
03-24-2016, 12:33 AM
Neuflune

Solo 4s. I find it intriguing that some people don't even use PvP skills at all. Helping a first timer or PvP newbie is nice, and getting to work with different kinds of people drowns away the boredom of PvE. I don't mind losing but I always give it my best even if the other party members are like fish out of water; it makes winning all the more awesome.
03-24-2016, 02:51 AM
Februs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neuflune

I find it intriguing that some people don't even use PvP skills at all

Unfortunately, some people just don't have PvP skills. One of the problems with new people being allowed to join up in ranked matches is that they're under ranked. Having a low rank means no AP points to spend on skills, which means they can't use them. A lot of inexperienced PvP'ers also neglect their hotbar customization options, so even if they have PvP skills to use, they don't have them readily available on their hotbars. They also might simply not know when the best time to use those skills is.

It's a tough problem, honestly. I've been slotted with a few groups in which one or two people are completely new, and it really is a handicap. I can understand why some players don't want new people to be able to get into ranked matches. That said, I also understand that queue's would be negatively effected if they weren't. It's one of those issues in which there's really no "best way" to deal with it.
03-24-2016, 05:36 AM
RiceisNice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Februs

Unfortunately, some people just don't have PvP skills. One of the problems with new people being allowed to join up in ranked matches is that they're under ranked. Having a low rank means no AP points to spend on skills, which means they can't use them. A lot of inexperienced PvP'ers also neglect their hotbar customization options, so even if they have PvP skills to use, they don't have them readily available on their hotbars. They also might simply not know when the best time to use those skills is.

You don't need to invest any points to use PvP skills. You have access to all of them even at rank 1. Only way you'd get a game where people don't use PvP skills is if they completely do not know that they have it, or choose not to use it.
03-24-2016, 05:54 AM
Februs

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

You don't need to invest any points to use PvP skills. You have access to all of them even at rank 1. Only way you'd get a game where people don't use PvP skills is if they completely do not know that they have it, or choose not to use it.

That's true. I wasn't being clear. However, the baseline PvP skills you have access to at Rank 1 do not compare to those that are buffed with AP points.

At rank 1, you have them at maximum CD and with the least potency of effect. That's hardly more useful than not having them at all, and you suffer a TREMENDOUS disadvantage over a Rank 50 player who has kitted out at least 3 of their PvP skills to maximum effect. For example, at maximum rank, Full Swing gets double it's baseline effect for an additional 5 seconds and can be used 30 seconds sooner than a Rank 1 Full Swing. That's a huge difference that can make or break the match if it's being used efficiently.

Rank can be a big handicap on the party if they don't have their skills above level one.
03-24-2016, 07:02 AM
RiceisNice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Februs

That's true. I wasn't being clear. However, the baseline PvP skills you have access to at Rank 1 do not compare to those that are buffed with AP points.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a tremendous (dis)advantage, let alone "hardly better than not having them at all". You generally don't know what the other team even has and I typically assume they have the best setup possible. They're either using the skills or they aren't. Abilities like full swing, axe kick and the like are hardly anything to scoff at, even if it's untraited.
03-24-2016, 11:14 AM
Februs

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

You generally don't know what the other team even has and I typically assume they have the best setup possible.

Hope for the best; prepare for the worst, right? That's a fine motto to bring into any competitive setting; unfortunately, you can't really prepare for the worst in a party of 4 where you have no control over the other 3 players in the group. An un-traited Full Swing is definitely not something to slouch at, but it still doesn't compare to a full traited Full Swing with double the effect at a higher frequency and longer duration, especially in a game mode where the pace of the battle can be established early by the first kill.

Regardless, I'm not interested in restricting queues for unranked players or anything like that. I'm just saying that I can understand why someone would get frustrated when the teammates they get shafted with at random don't have or don't use their PvP skills, because they do make a big difference in how well your team can potentially preform.
03-24-2016, 11:29 AM
RiceisNice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Februs

Hope for the best; prepare for the worst, right? That's a fine motto to bring into any competitive setting; unfortunately, you can't really prepare for the worst in a party of 4 where you have no control over the other 3 players in the group. An un-traited Full Swing is definitely not something to slouch at, but it still doesn't compare to a full traited Full Swing with double the effect at a higher frequency and longer duration, especially in a game mode where the pace of the battle can be established early by the first kill.

Yeah, I'm not going to argue that it's pretty shitty if your party doesn't know from left or right, or grasp basic awareness in a pvp setting. The entire design of solo queue goes against competitive play, down to the match making.
03-24-2016, 11:32 PM
Cynric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Februs

snip.

I think there isn't enough information inside the game about the usage of PVP skills, or really anywhere to be honest. A lot of my PVE friends who wanted to get into PVP didn't even realize there were PVP actions, nor did they know how to put them on their bars.

If people were using them but using them badly, they'd still be at least using them. You can sort of work with that, but lots of players seem to flat out not use them much.

As far as I know there aren't a lot of resources for PVP itself either. A lot of it seems to be learn as you go, I wish we had something like the bot and tutorial modes League has to help newer players learn how to PVP before stepping into rated mode.
03-25-2016, 01:58 AM
Synestra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynric

A lot of my PVE friends who wanted to get into PVP didn't even realize there were PVP actions, nor did they know how to put them on their bars.

I just lost all hope i had for humanity.......
03-25-2016, 03:26 AM
Cynric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synestra

I just lost all hope i had for humanity.......

In all fairness you can't set them to the bar from the PVP action menu in the PVP UI as far as I know. You have to use the PVP UI to give them traits then go to Actions & Traits > PVP Actions to actually set them. It would be less clunky if you could set them directly from the PVP UI.
03-25-2016, 03:30 AM
Iagainsti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynric

In all fairness you can't set them to the bar from the PVP action menu in the PVP UI as far as I know. You have to use the PVP UI to give them traits then go to Actions & Traits > PVP Actions to actually set them. It would be less clunky if you could set them directly from the PVP UI.

/apa action "Action Name" 1-3
03-25-2016, 03:34 AM
Cynric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

/apa action "Action Name" 1-3

Yes there is this for traits, however do you think PvE players who are just looking at the UI for the first time would be aware of that? Or even know the name /trait they want ? They'd have to go to the UI to know what each trait does in the first place and the name of each skill.

That command was made for people already knowledgeable and just quickly changing jobs in frontline. It won't be as helpful for a new person to PvP.
03-25-2016, 03:42 AM
Iagainsti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynric

Yes there is this for traits, however do you think PvE players who are just looking at the UI for the first time would be aware of that? Or even know the name /trait they want ? They'd have to go to the UI to know what each trait does in the first place and the name of each skill.

That command was made for people already knowledgeable and just quickly changing jobs in frontline. It won't be as helpful for a new person to PvP.

What do you propose would make this easier than it already is?
03-25-2016, 04:03 AM
Cynric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

What do you propose would make this easier than it already is?

I mean the easiest way would be to allow you to set them to your bar directly from the PVP action/trait menu in the PVP UI. I would say add a Help window thing but I get the feeling a lot of people don't read those anyway.
03-25-2016, 04:16 AM
Iagainsti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynric

I mean the easiest way would be to allow you to set them to your bar directly from the PVP action/trait menu in the PVP UI. I would say add a Help window thing but I get the feeling a lot of people don't read those anyway.

There actually is whole help windows you can check anytime in the same Help menu as every other Help window you've unlocked. I see what you're saying about applying from the PVP profile, but I can't help but think it's just as easy as applying them from the action/traits menu, its right there under commands.
03-25-2016, 04:40 AM
Cynric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

snip.

Its just clunky is all. You add traits via a menu to the skills but can't set them from the same menu. When I have had to explain in the past to others, they usually try for a few minutes to add the skill to their bar from the PVP Info tab before asking me why they can't add them to their bar. Then I explain to them its done in the same place as PvE skills and then they usually understand after I navigate them to the proper place.

But it's happened enough times for me to feel like the system UI being that way is just clunky and probably should allow you to add them straight from the info tab to avoid confusion.
03-25-2016, 04:43 AM
Iagainsti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynric

Its just clunky is all. You add traits via a menu to the skills but can't set them from the same menu. When I have had to explain in the past to others, they usually try for a few minutes to add the skill to their bar from the PVP Info tab before asking me why they can't add them to their bar. Then I explain to them its done in the same place as PvE skills and then they usually understand after I navigate them to the proper place.

But it's happened enough times for me to feel like the system UI being that way is just clunky and probably should allow you to add them straight from the info tab to avoid confusion.

Another good option would be to move the Ap merit point allocation submenu to the Action/Traits Menu.
03-25-2016, 04:46 AM
Cynric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Another good option would be to move the Ap merit point allocation submenu to the Action/Traits Menu.

That's definitely another possibility. I do think they should be in the same place one way or another though. I don't see any reason to separate the two into different menus, which is usually the reason I see confusion when I'm helping someone PVP for the first time.
03-25-2016, 07:50 AM
Februs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynric

That's definitely another possibility. I do think they should be in the same place one way or another though. I don't see any reason to separate the two into different menus, which is usually the reason I see confusion when I'm helping someone PVP for the first time.

Personally, I think the entire PvP menu needs to be overhauled. It's silly that we have to swap jobs just to see what's what in the menu, and AP point allocation is straight up asinine. I'm honestly still a little irked that they didn't just allow us to save our action points separately to each job and avoid this mess all together. We requested it once, but they denied it saying that "it would take too much time and resources to do." They failed to go into any specifics on the matter, mind you, so that left most of us to read between the lines. It basically translates to one of two things: either A) "we're too lazy to do this," or B) "it's just too complicated to work with system storage requirements." Personally, I hope it translates to the later, because otherwise it's a flat out unacceptable response.

Though, if it is just too technically complicated to accomplish, then I really have to wonder why that's the case. I mean, it seems to me that we already have a lot of things that are being stored separately for each job. Our bonus trait points, gear loud outs, and hot bars, are all already stored separately. Originally, glamours were not stored for PvP instances, so your glamour would vanish when playing Secure. They changed that, though, and now we can carry our glamours into a PvP instance ... so what's the deal with Ap points? I wouldn't have thought that AP point storage would be enough to break the camel's back. Being able to macro swap is great and all, but it's just a whole lot of clutter for something that they could just easily let us save to each job from the start.

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