Please Add no bonus option for PF

Let us set our PFs to not allow people with bonus to join please. Would be so much better then parties falling apart over that one guy who thought they could sneak in.

Still won't stop the people who have it cleared who are terrible too and got carried >_> I've seen people who have a clear on stuff, still no clue how the fight goes and cause wipe after wipe. I went to do A8 the other day, we wiped terribly, so I thought "maybe someone is new", nope, no new bonus. So just think about that.

For all you know, that person with the new bonus knows the whole fight and does well, but got held back by all the bads and terribles. It's not always people with new bonus that cause the wipes.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

For all you know, that person with the new bonus knows the whole fight and does well, but got held back by all the bads and terribles. It's not always people with new bonus that cause the wipes.

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Then he can simply send a tell saying he got to this % and the party leader will decide if they want to take the risk and go with him? Like people do already?

Its better than trying to join a party that asks for people to have cleared knowing full well you do not meet the requirements the party ask for.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

Then he can simply send a tell saying he got to this % and the party leader will decide if they want to take the risk and go with him? Like people do already?

Its better than trying to join a party that asks for people to have cleared knowing full well you do not meet the requirements the party ask for.

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This is what happened to me and I have to agree. I did Ravana Ex a lot but could never find a group with the dps to actually down him (the one time I had gotten close the healer popped the LB3 by accident so we hit the enrage timer and died), so I was still a new player according to the system even though I'd done that fight several times. Eventually I found a clear party and just explained my situation to the group leader and he let me in, finally got my clear that way.

Kinda was my situation, group was wanting only people who cleared (but was in an LS) only reason they let me in was because one of their friends told them I knew the fight as I had ran with them prior but we enraged at 3%. I am not really against the option for a No Bonus check but the success rate of the group would still make me think its in the low percentile.

That message was placed in the system in order for party's to know if they have new players in the content and for the other players to give them direction in order for everyone to be in the same page. The system was not designed for players to alienate other players because that new bonus message comes up. If you don't want to take that risk use the party finder system. That way you can create your own experienced party as you see fit. And for players joining these groups they should be honest. If you aren't fully 100% confident you have what they are asking for then you should not join a farming party. This the reason why both options are there. What needs to be done is weather or not that content is new or not let players query for it in the DF so that way they can at least learn it and gain some exp. You only learn by doing.

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Originally Posted by Melondra

If you don't want to take that risk use the party finder system.

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The title of the thread reads "Please Add no bonus option for PF"

With a join date in 2012 I'd think you'd realize PF = Party Finder. o.O

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That way you can create your own experienced party as you see fit.

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That's exactly what the OP is asking for - the option to filter out sneaky liars via the system.

I see.... Anyway it's useless what you want OP. Like someone said before , some will still suck even when they cleared it. Bonus or not , less skill players wil still come.

more importantly add a option which does not allow people to join who can't beat the fight without being 100 item levels too high for it.

"Let's find as many ways as we can to divide the community and tell people they suck." ... sheesh, I know bad player can be a drag sometimes but people don't magically get better without trying. This community thinks that unless you're gods-gift to gaming you don't deserve a spot on a team.

Please file this suggestion under 'burn it with fire'. Thank you.

It's unlikely that SE is going to add a DF/PF option for what basically amounts to "new players are not allowed to come and try to beat their content"

This game has enough problems with elitism as it is without them encouraging it further.

Yes, there exist people that got carried through the fight or otherwise have the clear yet cannot perform. The converse is also true: there will be those that can execute every mechanic perfectly while doing their job well, yet for some reason or another don't have the clear.

But these are the exceptions, not the rule.

Adding an option as suggested in the OP would improve the chances of making that rarest of things: a PF farm group that is actually able to farm. I agree it wouldn't be bulletproof, but it would prevent a great deal of grief and wipes/disbands.

To add to the suggestion, it should of course only be selectable if everyone in the party at the time of the PF creation has the clear.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Still won't stop the people who have it cleared who are terrible too and got carried >_> I've seen people who have a clear on stuff, still no clue how the fight goes and cause wipe after wipe. I went to do A8 the other day, we wiped terribly, so I thought "maybe someone is new", nope, no new bonus. So just think about that.

For all you know, that person with the new bonus knows the whole fight and does well, but got held back by all the bads and terribles. It's not always people with new bonus that cause the wipes.

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So i was in this Elite FC, for a bit, and joined a merc run for Titan EX, and they kept wiping, even though they were selling runs for ppl that couldn't clear it; the more hardcore the PF text, is, the worse the experience will be.
Another funny thing is that as time goes on, the ilv req goes up, but parties fail as much or more - people have this silly notion that high ilv=good player; sorry but you'd need 100k hp to survive failed mechanics, and even ilv 999 won't help you if wind doesn't go down.
So yah, no bonus option would do little if anything - it would just be annoying, cause i had to pester and convince people to let me join, when i didn't have clear, even though i could have farmed it, had i been given the chance.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

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You clearly don't get it, at all. If I want to make a farm party, that means that in my PF, I want people who have cleared the fight at least once, preferably more than that.

You think the 6 others with the same idea of going in and farming it are gonna be happy when Mr HiIHaven'tGotPastPhase1 rocks up with his bonus. You think we're gonna be able to complete our personal objective?

Call us selfish, but deliberately wasting the time of 7 other people takes the cake.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

It's unlikely that SE is going to add a DF/PF option for what basically amounts to "new players are not allowed to come and try to beat their content"

This game has enough problems with elitism as it is without them encouraging it further.

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A farm party is not meant for new players to join and learn the content. A farm implies that you've cleared tv fight before and know how to handle every mechanic for repeated wins. If you join a party while not meeting the expectations set by the PF leader, you're only getting in the way, elitism has absolutely nothing to do with it. Much like the person who rage quite after 3 wipes in a learning party is a jackass, so is the one who doesn't know what they're doing and sneaks into a farm.

unfortunately there is no way to get around sometimes playing with people who have a mental function barely above that of a potato. People who are new are fine a lot of people can be taught quite easily if you don't have a chip on your shoulder and hate everyone who doesn't perform to how you demand even if you don't. A bit of patience can often easily get you through a situation with new people unfortunately sometimes it's a waste lol.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

"Let's find as many ways as we can to divide the community and tell people they suck." ... sheesh, I know bad player can be a drag sometimes but people don't magically get better without trying. This community thinks that unless you're gods-gift to gaming you don't deserve a spot on a team.

Please file this suggestion under 'burn it with fire'. Thank you.

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I want to create a farm party with people who have cleared the fight before and therefore shouldn't require learning it while we are attempting to farm it.

Unfortunately for me Lemuria believes that they should be allowed in to mess up in a farm party because they, "dont magically get better without trying"

Lets not even get into the fact that someone joining a farm party that well you know can't farm it is essentially saying to 7 other people. carry me.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

I want to create a farm party with people who have cleared the fight before and therefore shouldn't require learning it while we are attempting to farm it.

Unfortunately for me Lemuria believes that they should be allowed in to mess up in a farm party because they, "dont magically get better without trying"

Lets not even get into the fact that someone joining a farm party that well you know can't farm it is essentially saying to 7 other people. carry me.

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is 5 minutes (assuming you wipe) really that important to you?

is giving someone a chance to clear who maybe has spent days learning the fight but has had bad luck with pf groups that much a burden? if they fail and you can pin the fail on them, Yeah, that person lied, Kick them. worst case scenario, you wasted 5 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

Lets not even get into the fact that someone joining a farm party that well you know can't farm it is essentially saying to 7 other people. carry me.

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I think that's most people who start farm parties and push up requirements for it. It more or less says "I am starting this party even though I don't know the fight well enough or have the capability to be a leader in the slightest.

Inclusiveness benefits everyone in the end because the pool of people who are competent or can beat content gets that much bigger. Not everyone will be capable but there is no way to measure before if they are certainly not by just knowing they have a clear or not. I feel a lot of thoughts about this can be counter productive because some like the idea of being in a small group of people with experience at content and they want to farm with that small group. It's not everyone just as not everyone who hasn't finished content is bad some people feel intimidated by the idea of joining groups because of the language used in the PF ad. Some others will just join any group trying to get a clear and will eventually find a way through even if they were no help at all. Would you rather have somebody who lets others do all the work and screws up but has cleared because a group didn't kick them or would you have somebody who is new but willing to listen and learn from more experienced players?

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

is 5 minutes (assuming you wipe) really that important to you?

is giving someone a chance to clear who maybe has spent days learning the fight but has had bad luck with pf groups that much a burden? if they fail and you can pin the fail on them, Yeah, that person lied, Kick them. worst case scenario, you wasted 5 minutes.

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We both know that there is a difference between someone who hasn't cleared but knows the fight and sends a tell to the PF leader explaining their situation, and someone who hasn't even been to the last phase and sneaking into the group. It's up to the PF leader to make that decision, not up to the person joining while knowing they don't meet the requirements set by the party.

Sorry for double posting, can't edit on phone. (Continuation from my last post). It's not always 5 minutes either. It's the time spent to find 7 other people, wipe when it's glaringly obvious that someone doesn't know the fight, which not only results in your own death in SephEX, but almost always the death of others, back out, kick the person who wrongfully joined the farm party, and then potentially risk other people leaving and go back to square one and restart the recruiting process.

For those against this system, there is already a divide in the community, you have easy content and hard content. This is system doesnt divide, it categorises, its asks if you meet the requirements to reliably pull your weight in the party, SE can't dictate that, so the party lead should be able to. Basically, this system makes sure that you get the players that you want in your party finder, if you don't like that, make your own party finder with your own conditions.

To add to this, I would also like the condition of beating the stone sky sea dummy (if joining on a DPS or tank).

Edit: perhaps we could see bigger changes to the PF system in that you can set the run type to learning, progression, clear, or farm, and that adds restrictions like no first time bonus and dummy. (so you can't have a learning party with no first time bonus for example)

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

Would you rather have somebody who lets others do all the work and screws up but has cleared because a group didn't kick them or would you have somebody who is new but willing to listen and learn from more experienced players?

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If making or joining a farm party, which is what this post is about, I'd rather have someone who knows mechanics and can fulfill what the other 7 group members are setting out to do, which is farm. If I am not confident in joining a farm, I will make a learning party and say what phase I would like the group to practice on. You don't join a farm party and try to turn it into a "please teach me " party, because you're changing the objective originally sought out by the party leader.

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Originally Posted by Odett

Sorry for double posting, can't edit on phone. (Continuation from my last post). It's not always 5 minutes either. It's the time spent to find 7 other people, wipe when it's glaringly obvious that someone doesn't know the fight, which not only results in your own death in SephEX, but almost always the death of others, back out, kick the person who wrongfully joined the farm party, and then potentially risk other people leaving and go back to square one and restart the recruiting process.

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Hm, yeah, I could see the party reforming being a waste. I don't create pf that often, that' a good point. I'll try sending tells to leaders because like you said, theres a grey area for people like me who haven't cleared yet.

OMG ! I really hope S.E. will never do such thing... There is too much elitism already. Those silly "ONE FAIL=KICK+BLACKLIST" is not enough for you...? Plus, PF is full of those "i'm selling, bla bla bla" things, I really miss the time when DF and PF were not there. People were way much respectfull of others and players were less suffering from the virus of elitist EGO...

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

Hm, yeah, I could see the party reforming being a waste. I don't create pf that often, that' a good point. I'll try sending tells to leaders because like you said, theres a grey area for people like me who haven't cleared yet.

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Sending tells works a lot if you are in the right place for it. My raid leader does this a lot, he says that as a healer, saying: "I've seen to enrage and meeting it isn't my job" tends to work quite well. Even as a tank (PLD more so than WAR), this worked for me.

Communication and respect goes a long way

If someone has not bonus he still can fail. And someone with bonus doesn't mean they don't know the fight. There are a lot of people who know perfectly the fight, but has bad luck on parties. I don't understand why in a MMO game where you play with other people need discriminate everything. You have no idea if someone is capable or not of doing things unless you know him or you see him in action. No bonus means nothing, says nothing.

Square Enix give us mounts to keep the parties going to the old extremes and have always people availiable for those who come after... and they found "no bonus" in all f****g PFs, and new people cannot join because they have bonus, and they cannot down it never. Yeah, I see how it works... (And please, don't come with the "make a learn party", no one join that on old content).

Next thing people will ask is "Please, don't allow new people join game, his is only for experts". Sigh.

I know I sound agressive, but I'm very sensible with this theme.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

I know I sound agressive, but I very sensible with this theme.

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Are you, really? Look at it from the other side for a little moment. Content is released and we make learning parties. We do this continuously and often and spend the entire time not only learning the fight ourselves, but also getting others caught up to the phases that we need practice in, until we finally beat it. Are you telling people that it's ok that they spend time doing this, but when they want to find 7 other like-minded players, it's selfish or elitist? We're not always here to teach, sometimes we wish to reliably down content, and that requires people who know what they're doing. It's true that some people know a fight but have had bad luck with groups, but that's where communication comes in; talk to the PF leader. The answer is not to join a group that you don't meet the objectives for, and try to turn it into a "please teach me party".

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Originally Posted by Odett

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Maybe I was too extreme here, my apologies. But what I mean is, if you see the bonus message, doesn't mean the this guy will fuck all the party. People quit without try 1 time at least. I know al ot of poeple who never down it, but he knos the fight to 5% Hp, he doesn't deserve try at least? I had bonus people on my PF before, some of them lied and don't know nothing, some of them are good ,and we did it because we give him a chance. But also, I had the opposite, people with the down, no bonus, that has no idea what he is doing. Like me, a lot of people. THat's why put "no bnus" means nothing.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

is 5 minutes (assuming you wipe) really that important to you?

is giving someone a chance to clear who maybe has spent days learning the fight but has had bad luck with pf groups that much a burden? if they fail and you can pin the fail on them, Yeah, that person lied, Kick them. worst case scenario, you wasted 5 minutes.

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Is sending a tell mentioning that you haven't cleared it and asking if you can join which takes about a minute really too much for you?

No one said they cannot send a tell and say their situation but to flat out assume people will let you join is rude.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Maybe I was too extreme here, my apologies. But what I mean is, if you see the bonus message, doesn't mean the this guy will fuck all the party. People quit without try 1 time at least. I know al ot of poeple who never down it, but he knos the fight to 5% Hp, he doesn't deserve try at least? I had bonus people on my PF before, some of them lied and don't know nothing, some of them are good ,and we did it because we give him a chance. But also, I had the opposite, people with the down, no bonus, that has no idea what he is doing. Like me, a lot of people. THat's why put "no bnus" means nothing.

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The point of the post actually prevents that. The reason that people get angry is because of misinformation. Why should the group help someone clear when they lied and said they already have the clear. If you told the PT that you dont have the clear, and they let you in anyway, then there is no issue, that happens a lot, and is great. The issue comes with lying and sabotaging parties. Which this is there to prevent. Everyone wins

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

You have no idea if someone is capable or not of doing things unless you know him or you see him in action. No bonus means nothing, says nothing.

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That's not true at all. If someone has cleared, then they probably know the fight. If someone hasn't cleared, then they probably don't know the whole thing (at least not well enough to farm).

I agree you can't be certain, but it would cover the majority of players, and the existing tools cover the edge cases.

Recently I've been trying to get the last 2 ponies I need for Kirin. Ifrit and Leviathan. Every time I set up a PF people who are not only new, but do not know the fight join. Not only that, but also people who can't speak English, with my PF marked English only also join, making explaining next to impossible. Normally I wouldn't mind too much but these two fights require you to curb DPS at certain points else you wipe. Ifrit was bad enough with the DPS who didn't understand 'stop attacking', I'm dreading Leviathan.

I'm not 'elitist' in any way, but I have limited play time and don't appreciate it being wasted by people who aren't honest.

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Originally Posted by Dramatic

I'm not 'elitist' in any way, but I have limited play time and don't appreciate it being wasted by people who aren't honest.

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This is the worst part. It is not elitist to expect to be able to farm content you have cleared many times. It IS entitled to expect someone to get you a clear when you join THEIR farm party. When I see the word elitist on an issue like this, I facepalm

i find those who have cleared or gotten to Part 3 often tend to mess up more then people who have watched a video or started learning the fight, because they come all high and mighty thinking once they clear they will auto clear each time. Really annoys ppl who still havnt cleared because you get self entitled (insert word) in your group always blaming those who have the bonus as the one to blame when it was them who messed up that mechanic...

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Originally Posted by ShadowHunterrX

I see.... Anyway it's useless what you want OP. Like someone said before , some will still suck even when they cleared it. Bonus or not , less skill players wil still come.

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So because you can't rule out all bad players with the suggestion it's no use at all? Great logic.

>Haven't clear Sephirot extreme after so many tries.
>Joins a "Farm party sephirot no baddies no idiots don't waste people time be serious 1 mistake and you get kicked "
>Does everything right but people who already got their clears and their cute achievements still dying on P2 or wombo combo.
>Asks if we're going to handle adds 331331
>everyone is like " ???? "
>Leaves and waits until SE nerfs Sephirot.

Balmung is full of elitists(baddies) ***holes that deserve to die already.

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Originally Posted by LunaSnowfield

>Haven't clear Sephirot extreme after so many tries.
>Joins a "Farm party sephirot no baddies no idiots don't waste people time be serious 1 mistake and you get kicked "
>Does everything right but people who already got their clears and their cute achievements still dying on P2 or wombo combo.
>Asks if we're going to handle adds 331331
>everyone is like " ???? "
>Leaves and waits until SE nerfs Sephirot.

Balmung is full of elitists(baddies) ***holes that deserve to die already.

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Exact same thing on Lich, then everyone blames the new players who didnt mess any mechanics...yep i find its the ones who have cleared or done it so much they just get to complacent.

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Originally Posted by LunaSnowfield

>Haven't clear Sephirot extreme after so many tries.
>Joins a "Farm party sephirot no baddies no idiots don't waste people time be serious 1 mistake and you get kicked "
>Does everything right but people who already got their clears and their cute achievements still dying on P2 or wombo combo.
>Asks if we're going to handle adds 331331
>everyone is like " ???? "
>Leaves and waits until SE nerfs Sephirot.

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To be fair, this is kinda irrelevant to the issue, and I had the same thing with the Bismark DPS check back in the day. The solution is to create your own PF with your own rules or make friends and do the content that way. You cannot gate someone sucking if they got carried (the game cant tell the difference), but if you have the clear, there is a much higher chance that you understand the fight, and what we are trying to weed out is liars and time wasters, not people like yourself.

If you are joining farm parties, be honest and let them know where you are at, let them know that you understand the fight completely and that they should kick you if they arent satisfied, this works especially well because you are a tank, and it is extreamly difficult to carry a tank (i.e. if you mess up, its a wipe).

Also:

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Originally Posted by LunaSnowfield

Balmung is full of elitists(baddies) ***holes that deserve to die already.

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Saying this makes you part of the problem, it's not your PF, you don't get to dictate what happens within it.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

To be fair, this is kinda irrelevant to the issue, and I had the same thing with the Bismark DPS check back in the day. The solution is to create your own PF with your own rules or make friends and do the content that way. You cannot gate someone sucking if they got carried (the game cant tell the difference), but if you have the clear, there is a much higher chance that you understand the fight, and what we are trying to weed out is liars and time wasters, not people like yourself.

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This kinda attitude is what ruins Raids in FF, people being self entitled that they demand everyone be so good they never make a mistake, the raids have become so easier compared to Sephi ex that people just think once you clear you can never make a mistake.

Also the more people who clear the better as it shows to SE that this content is just the right difficulty, the less players doing it will result in a nerf.