Unique Zones

I was tanking Nunyenunc in Neverreap the other day and had an interesting thought. What if in a future expansion, there was a zone that utilizes the fog debuff that appears during the nunyenunc fight? The zone would be a massive canyon system, with quest hubs up top on the plateaus. The canyon itself is flooded by fog that obscures the player's map and fov, the areas covered in fog cannot be mapped out. Litter dangerous monsters throughout, not knowing what you're running into. This would certainly give a greater feeling of danger than what was supposed to be in HW zones.

Edit: The zone could present dangers beyond just monsters lurking in the mist, pitfalls shrouded in the mist that if fallen into, warps your character back to the aetheryte in the first quest hub/town of the map. Even dynamic weather systems could play a role. The normal visibility of the fog could be something like 15-20 yalms, but when the dense fog weather system rolls in, the FoV decreases to 10-15 yalms. A sand storm weather system (credit to Aldora) that does damage to the player if they are outside during the storm, to avoid it you would need to hide in a cave system or go above the fog into one of the quest hubs/camps.

Too hard for 'casual' players. (Which seems to mean bads in the eyes of Yoshi)

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Originally Posted by Pence

Too hard for 'casual' players. (Which seems to mean bads in the eyes of Yoshi)

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This means to get cool content... We all need to start teaching new people, and not kick them when they fail twice.

We need to get the average skill higher.

I'm not referring to the community. I'm referring to how I perceive Yoshi. He refuses to add any 'hard' open world content in fear of alienating the community - he believes the overall community skill level is so low the game needs to be well dumbed down outside of raids.

If you're not raiding you don't have any reason to improve beyond 1, 2, 3. It'll pretty much carry you through all the contents because babysitting - and it doesn't look like they have any intention of altering that. Unfortunately they were on track for a more interesting game with late 1.0 but seemed to abandon it all in favor of including people without fingers and eyes.

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Originally Posted by Pence

I'm not referring to the community. I'm referring to how I perceive Yoshi.

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I wasn't trying to put words In your mouth that was my interpretation because I do blame the community. SE is a business. If putting in hard content everywhere loses them money to lesser skilled players, then they'll keep it easy. If the skill level all around is higher, then SE will feel comfortable making things harder. You can't make a corporation do what you want without hitting their wallet

But you can convince your average joe to put in a little extra effort one rotation at a time.

But then we get people complaining about "elitists"

I think this would be a bad idea for an open world zone plus the fog gimmick could only really affect people that haven't done the quests rather like the Aether currents currently

what would be a better idea if you use this system in a "Diadem" like zone were every time you start off in the zone you start off with no map and are forced to explore each time you go in and you are given a random starting point.

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Originally Posted by BHGlobbd

I was tanking Nunyenunc in Neverreap the other day and had an interesting thought. What if in a future expansion, there was a zone that utilizes the fog debuff that appears during the nunyenunc fight? The zone would be a massive canyon system, with quest hubs up top on the plateaus. The canyon itself is flooded by fog that obscures the player's map and fov, the areas covered in fog cannot be mapped out. Litter dangerous monsters throughout, not knowing what you're running into. This would certainly give a greater feeling of danger than what was supposed to be in HW zones.

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I like the idea of a big canyon where a very thick fog will cover the outside area and you have to navigate through the area with caverns and natural bridges (made from rock slabs or petrified trees) with limited visibility. The first thing that comes to mind would be area’s like “Valley within Attohwa Chasm” from FFXI.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2...ohwaChasm1.jpg

(Climbing a mountain like “Parradamo Tor” in FFXI, with its small windy roads and wind geysers which can knock you down the mountain again, was great fun as well)

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130618142922

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eeyWV-o9WCk/maxresdefault.jpg

This could also be used within dungeons as a random mechanic, where a thick fog could cover the sections of the dungeon at random, for instance in a castle/manor where you need to close windows in order to progress through the hallways, otherwise you’d be ambushed by invisible/fog enemies. Just to give it that much more of an eerie atmosphere to the dungeon. (^_~ )

Right now, you can get “Fog” weather in (f.i.) the Sea of Clouds. It makes the area look amazing, but you can still easily navigate through it. Adding more extreme weather types like dense fog, tsunamis, blizzards, tornados, sand storms, which will add tougher monsters (like tornados) will add a bigger sense of danger to the zone. Something i’d really like to see in the game. (^_^ )-b

Okey,
this is probably the best suggestion I have seen in last 6 months atleast. I really regret I can't throw atleast 10 likes on OP.
The idea of being lost in huge foggy area, being able to see a bit only when I go up some hill or something like that and having outposts only on hills or in caves is just too epic.

But get ready for people who will come here to say that it would be fun only for the first time and then it would become annoyance.
I would counter that with suggestion: There could be daily quest in that location, after let's say 20 days doing this daily quest, you would be able to get a gas mask/ magitek googles/ whatever and you would be able to see trough the fog. Problem solved, you would enjoy this epic location for some time and when it would become an annoyance, you would get an item, that would make this area normal again or ease the fog a bit.

EDIT: Also I am not into bumping threads, but I swear to the Twelve I am going to bump this one untill it has 40 pages and a respond from dev.

Reminds me of the Feywood in FF12 sounds great seriously....issue is that these Devs will never give us what we want if it conflicts with this game remaining easy for ALL players...be nice to be catered to without regard for casual or novice players....nice idea though!

The problem here with making purely 'difficult' zones is the fact that XIV isn't intended to cater solely to the demographic that enjoys that kind of content. Because of this the overworld content that everyone can access has been tailored to meet the lowest common skill level possible so that no one feels like there are areas in the world-proper that they can't ever go, and hence the true 'hardcore' content is instanced into raids and such that aren't implicitly required for people to go in to in order to progress.

Personally, I like a challenge of having to pace myself into a particularly difficult section of a zone, working slowly to make sure I only deal with the amount and types of mobs I can handle at a given time and having to pause to evaluate the situation while I recover from the last encounter. Sadly, all too many simply want to saddle up their 'bos and charge through places with a minimum or risk and effort so it's highly unlikely that you'll see difficult spots like this outside of raids, dungeons or the Diadem.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

I think this would be a bad idea for an open world zone plus the fog gimmick could only really affect people that haven't done the quests rather like the Aether currents currently

what would be a better idea if you use this system in a "Diadem" like zone were every time you start off in the zone you start off with no map and are forced to explore each time you go in and you are given a random starting point.

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Honestly, flying was a bad idea and a gimmick worse than the fog. Pre HW, the devs flaunted dangerous zones, which turned out to be HP sponges that hit like a truck at same level. Sure it was somewhat a danger with mobs being so close together, but once you gained flying, the zones ceased to be a challenge. Flying made the HW zones smaller than ARRs, this isn't an opinion, it's the ugly truth.

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Originally Posted by BHGlobbd

I was tanking Nunyenunc in Neverreap the other day and had an interesting thought. What if in a future expansion, there was a zone that utilizes the fog debuff that appears during the nunyenunc fight? The zone would be a massive canyon system, with quest hubs up top on the plateaus. The canyon itself is flooded by fog that obscures the player's map and fov, the areas covered in fog cannot be mapped out. Litter dangerous monsters throughout, not knowing what you're running into. This would certainly give a greater feeling of danger than what was supposed to be in HW zones.

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No thanks, keep this sort of thing to the dungeons. If they made something like this in open world I would seriously consider not playing anymore. Leave the open world the way it is. I don't need any of that can't see whats coming nonsense or traps that warp you back to the town. I will pass.

If they do add something like this at least make it a optional zone so those who don't like this stuff can skip it.

I'd like to see more environmental hazards and effects and not just in dungeons either - we could have whirlpools in shallow/deep water if we ever get the ability to swim. We could have an underground zone where you need to navigate through lighting torches along the way.

Stuff like that would make 'Diadem' type content much more engaging in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd like to see more environmental hazards and effects and not just in dungeons either - we could have whirlpools in shallow/deep water if we ever get the ability to swim. We could have an underground zone where you need to navigate through lighting torches along the way.

Stuff like that would make 'Diadem' type content much more engaging in my opinion.

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In places like the Diadem is fine, it is optional content. I got my mount and have not set foot back there since, did not enjoy it at all.

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

In places like the Diadem is fine, it is optional content.

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Even in the open world it would be optional content or close to it. There are dozens (hundreds, maybe) of places in the open world of HW (not to mention ARR) that I haven't stepped foot in since I was leveling. If one part of one zone had a mechanic you didn't like, it seems easy enough to avoid it.

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

Even in the open world it would be optional content or close to it. There are dozens (hundreds, maybe) of places in the open world of HW (not to mention ARR) that I haven't stepped foot in since I was leveling. If one part of one zone had a mechanic you didn't like, it seems easy enough to avoid it.

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Yup that is fine as long as they don't put main story quests or job quests in that area and force people into it then it would be fine.

good concept thou probably not for open world with SE's "easy mode" mentality (thou stuff is harder mechanic's wise in some HW dungeons) now add it to a "new" form of Diadem were u can't fly... actually let them fly just make it so all "bigger than player" mobs can drag a player down to them if they run into one while being dumb & flying in the fog and not above it (best make it so mobs can't even be "nameplated" unles u'r in the fog and within sight just to add spice) with all that unknown hazzards in the fog u'd be more inclind to say with group... or end up "that guy" u'r team barily see's die in a movie way (& promptly decide "okay not going that way, respawn & fly back u idiot!" or something)

I guess they can make it so that heavy can prevent you from Flying; falling from high places will kill you. Make Diadem part of PvP so gatherer's must be extra careful or else campers will kill them

Dying will make you lose gil/ exp; potentially de-leveling the person

This idea reminds me of the Feywood form Final Fantasy XII.
Source: Feywood Wiki page

"South of the vast Golmore jungle in Kerwon there lies a place known as the 'Feywood'. The Mist there is far denser than most, and even should you make it through that, there's no guarantee you'll make it past what lies beyond."

"An ancient wood deep in the jungles of Golmore. The combination of dense Mist and regular snow, the latter a product of the region's elevation, is enough to keep away even the viera. Many of the trees have stood for several thousands of years, and some have begun to petrify. Numerous plants once thought extinct grow here, and many rare birds and animals can be seen in their primitive forms, unchanged for millennia."
WeatherEdit

The weather in Feywood never changes; the areas have fixed weather:

• Cloudy (Walk of the Flitting Rifts area)
• Heavy Fog (all the other areas)
• In heavy fog Water attacks deal more damage than normal. Because Feywood is of snow terrain, Ice damage is always boosted.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20121022164732



This game lacks hard areas. One thing I really don't like. Like if I was bored and wanted a simple challenge of say, exploration, or killing big open world mobs for loot or some crap, that might be fun, but we get nothing because I feel like SE cares so much about balance, they wouldn't want anything too hard for new players to handle.

The fog mechanic is pretty cool and I wouldn't mind seeing it in the overworld.
Traps or dangerous mobs are neither here nor there, seems people are split on it, either they don't want it, don't think others want it, or do want it. Why not just have it go with the current weather system where, at times of the day, the fog will roll in and suddenly visibility is at records low?

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Originally Posted by BHGlobbd

Edit: The zone could present dangers beyond just monsters lurking in the mist, pitfalls shrouded in the mist that if fallen into, warps your character back to the aetheryte in the first quest hub/town of the map. Even dynamic weather systems could play a role. The normal visibility of the fog could be something like 15-20 yalms, but when the dense fog weather system rolls in, the FoV decreases to 10-15 yalms. A sand storm weather system (credit to Aldora) that does damage to the player if they are outside during the storm, to avoid it you would need to hide in a cave system or go above the fog into one of the quest hubs/camps.

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I had a similar idea way back in 2.1 but instead I wanted zones with no teleport crystal. It was more of an "open-zone" dungeon if that makes sense. Places like the Blind Iron Mines that connected Lower La Noscea to Middle La Noscea always fascinated me as to how it would look like if we could traverse it. I imagined it would have high level monsters for the time and occasional random spawning boss mobs and you had to pitch a "tent" to create your own temporary base for about 30 mins where you can change jobs without a cd penalty.

Wishful thinking I know, but that's what I get for trying to imagine a more immersive world where you don't teleport from point to point, which is what this game is slowly becoming.

I'd like more fantasy zones with effects like this.
Stuff like perpetual fog, floating rivers, and weird things are what make the offline FF worlds so unique.
Spira, Gran Pulse, and Ivalice come to mind

In EQ 1 there is a forest that by day is full of animals and life, but at night it turns into an undead rotten Warzone.
Very cool.

Considering that we can fly now the "inconvenience" some folks are afraid of would fade away.
I have no issue with crazy zone effects. I have issues with games that hide 1 shot mobs in them.
Fog that causes me to run blindly into say a World Boss that requires 50+ people to kill would not be fun or challenging.
To me that is not challenge. Thats just cheap.

It's cool in "casual" way too. I hope to see something like this.

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Originally Posted by Pence

I'm not referring to the community. I'm referring to how I perceive Yoshi. He refuses to add any 'hard' open world content in fear of alienating the community - he believes the overall community skill level is so low the game needs to be well dumbed down outside of raids.

If you're not raiding you don't have any reason to improve beyond 1, 2, 3. It'll pretty much carry you through all the contents because babysitting - and it doesn't look like they have any intention of altering that. Unfortunately they were on track for a more interesting game with late 1.0 but seemed to abandon it all in favor of including people without fingers and eyes.

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Couldn't say it any better than this!

You don't increase the average skill level of a player by bumping up their gear a notch, and then beefing up the enemies to match. You do this by challenging them with new and interesting mechanics. People learn by failing, and it's high-time someone at SE learned this fundamental rule of games.

This game needs more 'walls'. I don't mean the physical kind, I meant an in-game mechanic which forms a barrier between player and content. New dungeons are basically given away, and new areas just require the means to walk to them. Remember 'sea' and 'sky' from FFXI? Areas you'd never visit unless you invested your time, and accomplished some truly amazing feats (at least, before they removed the level cap and made it a cakewalk). We need areas which aren't just 'there' but are genuinely interesting places to be, and a little bit exclusive.

FFXIV needs to move out of the ball pool and kick it up a notch if they want to retain player interest long-term.

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

No thanks, keep this sort of thing to the dungeons. If they made something like this in open world I would seriously consider not playing anymore. Leave the open world the way it is. I don't need any of that can't see whats coming nonsense or traps that warp you back to the town. I will pass.

If they do add something like this at least make it a optional zone so those who don't like this stuff can skip it.

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Bolded... You're the reason we can't have nice things.

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Originally Posted by Pence

If you're not raiding you don't have any reason to improve beyond 1, 2, 3.

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seriously there are tons of people who are so bad that I can out dps them just spamming my lv1 skill over and over. .. this game is so watered down its almost sickening.

Like, got that dragon bridge trial yesterday where literally no tanking was happening and Eos was the only thing healing and people just kept dieing and respawning and we still win. .. seriously?

Oh forgot, on topic, love your idea OP would love a more dynamic and rich open world experience.

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Originally Posted by Aldora

I
(Climbing a mountain like “Parradamo Tor” in FFXI, with its small windy roads and wind geysers which can knock you down the mountain again, was great fun as well)

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Please. Please no. I want things from XI in XIV, but not this. Never this.

What a nightmare. My friends dragged me up there every week to do ENMs, I never want to see that mountain again.

Another zone feature I would like to see more of, is the inability to teleport to a zone directly (credit to Marxam). Even casuals would not be able to complain about said feature being too complex or making them go out of their way to enter the zone, because guess what? Heavensward has a zone EXACTLY like this, The Dravanian Hinterlands. The only way to enter the Hinterlands, is to either enter from Dravanian Forelands or exit via Idyllshire, no way to directly port in. As I said above about flying making the zones smaller, so too has teleporting. I am not a proficient gatherer, so yes I might not understand the woes of missing an unspoiled node, but skipping intricately designed zones by porting/flying is a waste and a slap in the face of the design team, might as well base FFXIV on PSO2 with a hub world. Oh what a pity it would be to actually experience the game you are playing.

I'd love to see more things like this, in general.

The open world in FFXIV is, in the tradition of WoW, largely a visual playground not unlike a theme park attraction. I know this is a theme park MMO, but...there's really something missing in the world itself that keeps it from feeling like an actual world. Immersion is a big component of MMOs to me, and I wish we'd get more things like special doors, difficult to traverse terrain, secret paths, and dangerous strongholds—all together, things like this have the effect of making zones feel like unique places that exist not for the sake of the player but rather because they have a unique and storied history that has made them the way they are.

I miss things like the "weight" doors in FFXI's Altepa Desert (well, in the catacombs beneath them, the zone name of which I can't remember at the moment), the Three Mage Door in the Horutoto Ruins, and the Tonberry lantern door in the Temple of Ugallipeh (spelling x.x). Zones with multiple entrances and exits, like the Crawler's Nest and Garlaige Citadel, which you could use to get to special places in the zones above them, are great, too.

Even in newer zones, like from Seekers of Adoulin, there are paths you need special Key Items to access, obstacles to clear out to get to certain sections, and the like. They're a "pain," but things like that just serve to make the zones feel more alive, and I wish we'd get more of that in FFXIV. (I can think of a few zones that do have some things like this, such as Eastern Thanalan, what with the twisting, confusing paths in the Burning Wall, but such places are pretty rare).

Honestly, I could go on and on about the zone design in FFXI, as it was really expansive and top notch. The world had soul there in a way that it just doesn't in most modern MMOs. Unfortunately, the modern trend toward player convenience has had the side effect of sucking the life out of the worlds themselves. I'd blow up all of the aetheryte crystals, dismantle the Duty Finder, and remove flight from the game entirely if I could—but I also know that would considerably shrink the game's population, so the best that I can hope for is little things here and there.

If they could honestly just take the map from FFXII and figure out a way to make it fit up and mesh with the world of FFXIV, I think ton of players would be immensely impressed, and excited about logging in and exploring the world.

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Originally Posted by Klamor

If they could honestly just take the map from FFXII and figure out a way to make it fit up and mesh with the world of FFXIV, I think ton of players would be immensely impressed, and excited about logging in and exploring the world.

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You mean exploring more empty spaces with monsters sprinkled about and waiting for FATEs?

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Originally Posted by Pence

Too hard for 'casual' players. (Which seems to mean bads in the eyes of Yoshi)

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As a Hardcore-turned-casual player, most content isn't hard; it's just that my timing don't allow me to be able to do some things in a timely manner (Savage, for example). I like how the game keeps the casuals with casual content and hardcores with hardcore content.

I'd hate to be that person who had a hard day at work for 16 hours then got on the game and had to deal with more hard stuff. I'd rather relax with a simple dungeon run and be relaxed.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

You mean exploring more empty spaces with monsters sprinkled about and waiting for FATEs?

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If that's how you look at it, then yes. Everything will feel "empty" when you're running around with the highest item level. The zones in FFXII just seemed more cohesive, and allowed for a much deeper sense of exploration. Like the subterranean caves that connected 4 or 5 different zones together, but was filled with significantly higher level enemies than what you would normally encounter at the level you were when you could first access a small portion of the caves. There was a bit more of a threat of danger when you ran through new zones, or same-level zones. The worst thing we get here in FFXIV is Heavy... and that's just an RNG-based middle-finger to the player, and not anything that's actually challenging or intricate in its design.

If we want to exclude having new things because people will get bored of it, too, eventually, then why do we give a shit about any patch for that matter? Oh, I guess it might interfere with some people who just want to log in, zombie through some beast tribes, and then log out content with their lives...

This suggestion could be seen as the addition of an elit map, an optional area with challenge, daily quest for specif rewards. However like this it sounds like what we have for the diadem ("elit mobs", optional area ...). But we can make it very different.

I could be an instanced area, like a new kind of dungeon for 8 people, where you have a timer and need to go the further you can in the “maze. The further you go the further the monster are difficult and the loot interesting, it could fun. And because of the fog not flying allow. It could be introduced as a new area discovered with the exploration and because of the fog and some disturbances they cannot fly to investigate it so they ask us to do it for them to check if they are resources they could use.

In order to “save” you progression (like in a normal dungeon), to avoid to start from beginning when you wipe inside your session, they could be some “safe” spot (caves etc.) where you can settle a camp (involving some simple quick gathering/crafting maybe?) to get a shortcut. At first it will not be possible to explore it totally and with the increasing ilvl you will be able to go further. They still can block some path (falling rocks etc.) which could be removed with a patch to open new area.

For the fight they could put some kind of boss at some step which give you some nice rewards and you will want to do as many as possible. Some trash mobs will between them (like a normal dungeon), and you will need to take care of them while taking attention to your surrounding (hiding addition mob in the fog, large poison fog -> poison dot while in it, trap …). The farther you go the more you will have those climatic effect (like a system of handicap/debuff like in ff7 arena)

In addition since it could be a kind a maze different ways to go through (replayability), it could be possible to see it in two ways: 1) going the farther by doing as less as possible easy boss to reach a better difficulty (quality) , 2) going back and doing the other different path to do several boss of similar difficulty (quantity).

To add to create a different experience each time you enter it, they could add some random event (fate?) which you can choose to ignore, if you do them they may lead to open a new patch or special area with bonus boss/treasure/gathering spot (do not know if we should include gathering or not in it).