Diadem & Dismissal

Please allow us to kick party members out of groups, or make it a feature for premade groups at least.

This stops 'Leechers' who are prone to getting killed and declining all raises and others who just stay up in the air the whole time from reaping the rewards that the rest of the party work for.

Just think on it.

I've not been there yet but from what I have heard it sounds like something should be done. As long as it stays so you cannot kick during rolls I don't see why not.

Let's keep the "vote kick" out of Diadem. Why not dissuade people from joining rather than implementing another potential form of abuse.

I propose a FATE-like contribution tracking system. If someone does little to nothing, they get little to no reward.

Just no vote kick, please!

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Originally Posted by MrsFluffyButt

Please allow us to kick party members out of groups, or make it a feature for premade groups at least.

This stops 'Leechers' who are prone to getting killed and declining all raises and others who just stay up in the air the whole time from reaping the rewards that the rest of the party work for.

Just think on it.

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You know how much Havoc this will cause if they allow to Kick people? Especially doing it unfairly to lock people out of a 2 Hours they cannot do Diadem anymore. Not only that, someone may feel bickened or jeolous you Greed on a i210 that is not your Class or you get too many i210 = Kick.

While right now there is legitimate reason to kick and we have AFK, or people who just want to Gather. I actually take my chances then the above statement.

True leechers are a problem but adding the kick feature in won't solve anything it will just cause more problems cause there are times a person needs to be kicked for this type of content it would be abused for all the wrong reasons.

I honestly don't know why they didn't implement something like fates, if they don't contribute to the fight the should not be allowed to loot, it's so unfair that some one decides to go gather meanwhile stealing all the loot we are farming... pretty unfair Imo, or if they are directly on a gathering gear they aren't allowed to roll greed on a DoW loot

Considering that there's a big cooldown before you can start another exploration and how you can't replace lost party members, kicking might make the issues worse.

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Originally Posted by Tisharu

You know how much Havoc this will cause if they allow to Kick people? Especially doing it unfairly to lock people out of a 2 Hours they cannot do Diadem anymore. Not only that, someone may feel bickened or jeolous you Greed on a i210 that is not your Class or you get too many i210 = Kick.

While right now there is legitimate reason to kick and we have AFK, or people who just want to Gather. I actually take my chances then the above statement.

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I mean, c'mon...this is boarding the doom and gloom train far too much. You could apply your scenario to anything that currently involves vote dismiss. Too many dungeon drops? Kick. Beat someone to nodes in Frontlines too many times? Dismiss.
The abuse of NOT having a vote kick is far greater then not. It was not included in the initial launch as SE believed it was not necessary, nek minit? Abuse all over the show and they added it. Obviously they learnt nothing.

Isn't leeching gear like this a reportable offense? S-E may not care about RMT, but my experience with toxic players has shown that GMs can and will go after actual people that are being an issue. They are affecting the rate things die/not contributing to kills, and the drop rate for gear via gathering does not justify a DoL needing/greeding hunt gear. Given the Diadem's nature as it stands, I would think a GM could just look at the offending player's log and remove them manually. It is stuff like this that is why I will NEVER do Diadem with a PuG.

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Originally Posted by Pence

I mean, c'mon...this is boarding the doom and gloom train far too much. You could apply your scenario to anything that currently involves vote dismiss. Too many dungeon drops? Kick. Beat someone to nodes in Frontlines too many times? Dismiss.

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Those don't have a 2 hour cooldown the moment you enter and another people can still rejoin your party in those.
In Diadem you do not just waste 90 minutes of the kicked persons 2 hours, you also reduce your own party with every kick for the rest of time (a single kick and no LB3 anymore, as an example).

I still don't understand why people would want to do this in duty finder. It's so much better with FC members and friends.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I still don't understand why people would want to do this in duty finder. It's so much better with FC members and friends.

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in duty finder you get a lot of people that just want to go harvest items for themselves while also rolling on drops
one or two people that just "afk" and roll on drops
and a group of about 4-5 solo players that actually want to do it

It's basically just for the people that seem to not want to make friends and those that want to play abusively towards others

the selfishness of the people in the duty finder version is pretty insane. I tried it once and the guy that refused to even help kill the mobs for the aether currents, flew off to go fishing immediately, and rolled on every single battle drop eventually got a gathering chest and just flipped out when a piece of gold ore went to someone else to the point of threatening him if he doesn't return it...

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I still don't understand why people would want to do this in duty finder. It's so much better with FC members and friends.

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It really is, but sometimes you just can't muster a full 8 person party.

I honestly don't think they should allow vote-kicking in Diadem because it will be abused like it has been in any other instance. I can only imagine seeing party members raging at players for miscommunication or petty issues that were not intended with Diadem (such as fighting over gathering/spamming dino land, etc) and abusing vote kick.

I do believe there should be something fixed in regards to the loot system, possibly have gathering jobs receive the loot from their treasure chests found (instead of it randomly be dispersed) and only let party members who participate in fights that drop specific chests be allowed to roll on it only. Unfortunately, since the loot only seems to drop if you get a certain amount of credit (and parties with even 8 players haven't been getting credit sometimes), then I feel like that issue should also be fixed somewhat and possibly based on both tagging an enemy plus damage dealt?

How about

if you didn't hit the enemy at all, you can't roll on that drop
and consequently if you aren't in a gathering job when a gatherer digs up a chest, you're out of the running for whatever random items it has.

Buried chests are still free game since anyone can walk up and open them.

Is that better

if only there was a button that allowed others to que in progress for those of us who's whole party leaves cuz they cant handle the random adds that agro in the beginning to get an athercurrent, then throw a fit when someone kills them selves to draw away the adds.

Had some trouble today with someone who said they were just going to gather and complete objectives while we all fought. They completed a couple and then came and idled at the fight area, rolling loot but doing nothing. Someone called them out on it and they said they were on the phone. They then rolled for and got a 210 piece and said they had to go and left. Personally, I expected it, as it was Duty Finder. I always go Party Finder for greed 150/180, need 210 rules, so the fact that this happened in the one and only DF run I had didn't surprise me in the least. Run was still more or less ok, but people spent time trying to talk him out of gathering (is there even a reason to complete objectives? Because I don't see any).

Possibly a unanimous-only vote kick option could work. Kind of hard to abuse that, and it helps for when one player is causing a group issues.

(as someone who still can't get into Diadem /sadface)1

Vote Kick could work, or it could reduce Duty Finder Daidem into a ghost town.

Simply setting it up that either loot you can only role for loot if you are actively contributing to the fight for it, or make the resource gathered from nodes shared amongst the party should suffice I think.

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

I've not been there yet but from what I have heard it sounds like something should be done. As long as it stays so you cannot kick during rolls I don't see why not.

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I realize this is how it works in dungeons, but if they handled it the same way in Diadem the leecher (or whoever was being removed) could hold the whole party hostage until all loot dropped by simply not rolling.

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Originally Posted by LandricFrey

Let's keep the "vote kick" out of Diadem. Why not dissuade people from joining rather than implementing another potential form of abuse.

I propose a FATE-like contribution tracking system. If someone does little to nothing, they get little to no reward.

Just no vote kick, please!

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Abuse of the Vote Kick feature is far less common than you might think. But again, this wouldn't even be a discussion if people could be civil to each other and didn't only look out for what benefits them.

Considering that being kicked usually means you can just queue again (though not with the same party) with no penalty, it'd conflict with the Diadem where either kicked players can get loot and asked to be kicked, or someone gets kicked and they have to suffer the cooldown to reenter it.

Just, no....

With the two hour wait lockout, it's just ridiculously unfair to players that get kicked without legitimate reason. I want to go gather those fish to complete an objective, but the rest of the party wants to go straight to grinding the rank IVs because they just want the gear because they've already capped ESO for the week, and what's to stop them from kicking me and making me wait 2 hours before I can get back in? Or as others have said, what's to stop people from kicking because they get jealous of you getting better luck on the drop rolls? The bottom line is that unlike dungeons/raids where you can re join a dungeon instantly, (discounting wait on the DF), you would suddenly have to wait up to two hours before you can go back in if you were kicked without a just reason. More so, the Diadem is designed to give both gatherers and combat classes something to do, yet with the way half the community is talking about it if you're a gatherer you shouldn't be there because the "reason" for the Diadem is combat. I'm fine with the idea of a loot lockout where you can't get the drops unless you provide a portion of the support in combat, but allowing vote kick would just cause far too many problems, and lead to even more people raging on here about how bad the Diadem is than there already are.......

Also, if we're going to a system where you get rewarded based on whether you participate, please do something about the Star ranked mobs. In a run I was in recently of the Diadem, my entire party was attacking star ranks, but because of the fact that there was a significant portion of people attacking as well, we didn't get any chests from across the four or five we helped on. This is particularly egregious when our tank was the one tanking at least two of the star ranks, and all of our DPS were hitting them.....

I just want to point out something about the against towards gathering in parties. Yes if too many dol its hard to kill nms and if a pt makes rules before entry they should be upheld.

The thing I want to point out though is a lot of people don't seem to notice the dol are constantly getting instant opened chest(including gold and minion hawks) or items that go to random people in the party and rarely the actual gatherer themselves. I notice a lot of people don't seem to notice this happens so I just wanted to spread some awareness on it <3 (also its not just shards and stuff there's a lot of items too)

add it for the love of god
i just had a whm in nm diadem in a premade pf group, didn't heal, didn't raise, stayed in cleric stance the whole time, and i couldn't solo heal with all the mobs on dino island and he made us wipe multiple times people even rage quit (myself included)

Adding a kick feature (especially since you can't replenish party members while in the Diadem) would be a band-aid fix.

On the other hand, basing loot on how much contribution a player made is an interesting idea. Not sure how difficult it would be to implement and I know that there are people who are tired of FATEs.

But, yeah, something should be done so that party members can deal with a leecher who is only there to get their pony awhile doing minimal amount of work.

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Originally Posted by WingsOfAzrael

add it for the love of god
i just had a whm in nm diadem in a premade pf group, didn't heal, didn't raise, stayed in cleric stance the whole time, and i couldn't solo heal with all the mobs on dino island and he made us wipe multiple times people even rage quit (myself included)

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I had a WHM the other day that took off to gather for 20-30 minutes, leaving me to solo heal on SCH. Then when he came back, he switched to BRD instead of back to WHM. The funniest part was when a snazzy i210 healing ring dropped (crit/det/spellspeed) and he begged for people to pass on it because he "really needed it". How about no? I ignored him and rolled and won the item. After a total of just over an hour, I got tired of farming and went to go fish. I came back to help for an S rank, but someone was spawning V tier mobs when we already had difficult star tier mobs up so I left again cause I didn't wanna deal with it. The same WHM that was gathering earlier bitched me out for "leeching" and said I should just leave. My friend and I laughed our asses off at that, considering I solo healed for most of the time in there. Personally, I think he was just sore about the ring. :3

No, vote kick is a bad idea because people will use it to kick gatherers. Go with an FC or premade group of people where you all have the same idea of what you want to do. Some people go in to gather, and gathering is a part of Diadem. Those people you say stay in the air the whole time are probably looking for gathering nodes. I went with FC and took ages to find some gathering nodes. I spent more time flying than gathering because map is so huge. Sometimes I would end up flying by close enough to party so that the it allowed me to loot roll, which was not intentional on my part. Sometimes we just ended up close enough to each other.

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Originally Posted by h0tNstilettos

No, vote kick is a bad idea because people will use it to kick gatherers. Go with an FC or premade group of people where you all have the same idea of what you want to do. Some people go in to gather, and gathering is a part of Diadem. Those people you say stay in the air the whole time are probably looking for gathering nodes. I went with FC and took ages to find some gathering nodes. I spent more time flying than gathering because map is so huge. Sometimes I would end up flying by close enough to party so that the it allowed me to loot roll, which was not intentional on my part. Sometimes we just ended up close enough to each other.

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No, there's some people that will literally park themselves on their flying mount above where the rest of us are fighting. :/

I honestly don't mind gathering. If SE didn't intend for us to gather in there, there wouldn't be nodes.

I'm pretty sure the devs are looking into the feedback and will make changes.

After all, you can be vote-dismissed as many times in a day without penalty, so I imagine they'll have to do something similar for Diadem groups. They have to

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

No, there's some people that will literally park themselves on their flying mount above where the rest of us are fighting. :/

I honestly don't mind gathering. If SE didn't intend for us to gather in there, there wouldn't be nodes.

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My post still stands because there are people that will kick people for gathering. As for people that are actually a problem, that's always a risk with any PUG. In this case it's best to form a party where everyone's intentions are clear, either with FC friends, friends list friends, or a PUG where hopefully no one is a liar and decides to camp where ever party is.

I have yet to PUG it, but I understand where you are coming from. I'd be upset going in and having the other healer wander off or just hover in the air above, but I still opt against vote kick. And yes I do know what battling in Diadem is like as I haven't only gone in to gather.

I wish they'd do the following:

1. Remove the cooldown time from entering after leaving. Let people leave bad parties or where there's dead weight without penalty.

2. Put gatherers in a separate queue slot. Prevent combat classes and gatherers from switching back and forth to the other. It's ridiculously safe to fish, and several people off fishing means the combat classes are screwed over from getting credit on kills (more on this in point #5). But basically, combat classes have to band together in order to get credit for doing anything but gatherers don't have to. There's a large imbalance there, and going off on their own not only serves their own interests, it actually works against the combat classes' interests and ability to actually get rewards.

3. Gatherers keep their chests all to themselves.

4. You have to have actually contributed to fighting the target to roll on the loot that appears from the chest.

5. Fix the situation where mobs can only have so many effects on a target at once. Know what makes my party not get credit for damaging targets in there? When there's too many effects on the target, none of my DoTs from Tri-Disaster land, and Fester gives me a "has no effect" message because the DoTs aren't registering. This has been an issue that has been around forever, and SE has designed content again where the design flaw creates more problems.

6. Possibly implement vote kick. Being free to leave is one thing, but sometimes the problem with a group is only one person in it.

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Originally Posted by h0tNstilettos

My post still stands because there are people that will kick people for gathering. As for people that are actually a problem, that's always a risk with any PUG. In this case it's best to form a party where everyone's intentions are clear, either with FC friends, friends list friends, or a PUG where hopefully no one is a liar and decides to camp where ever party is.

I have yet to PUG it, but I understand where you are coming from. I'd be upset going in and having the other healer wander off or just hover in the air above, but I still opt against vote kick. And yes I do know what battling in Diadem is like as I haven't only gone in to gather.

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Oh definitely. I think vote kick is a bad idea. It's way too easy to abuse.

I have no problem for kicking member inside the diadem, but keep the kicked member inside the diadem.

the kicked member still can do gathering out there, or provide drama to amuse the people inside diadem, win win solution

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

No, there's some people that will literally park themselves on their flying mount above where the rest of us are fighting. :/

I honestly don't mind gathering. If SE didn't intend for us to gather in there, there wouldn't be nodes.

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are you sure these people are parked, and are not the pullers?

I do this when I go in because if I land and fight, I can't get back ON my mount. To be able to pull more dinosaurs to the group, I have to stay in the air on my bird. I don't wanna pull 5+ dino's at once, but I will make sure the group has 2 at a time.