I am on fiber... can't get much better than my connection but since the EU transfer I have had serious lag issues. Rubber banding, completely lagging out... it can take up to 3 seconds for a minicactpot space to open after I click it.
Its clear from the posts this problem is effecting people all over but only a handful of us. It also started with the transfer although that makes no sense.
This is the kind of stuff I am seeing...
Request timeout for icmp_seq 21
64 bytes from 199.91.189.74: icmp_seq=21 ttl=43 time=1001.205 ms
64 bytes from 199.91.189.74: icmp_seq=23 ttl=43 time=61.535 ms
64 bytes from 199.91.189.74: icmp_seq=24 ttl=43 time=61.280 ms
Request timeout for icmp_seq 25
64 bytes from 199.91.189.74: icmp_seq=26 ttl=43 time=61.041 ms
64 bytes from 199.91.189.74: icmp_seq=27 ttl=43 time=62.793 ms
64 bytes from 199.91.189.74: icmp_seq=28 ttl=43 time=62.602 ms
Request timeout for icmp_seq 29
64 bytes from 199.91.189.74: icmp_seq=30 ttl=43 time=62.398 ms
64 bytes from 199.91.189.74: icmp_seq=31 ttl=43 time=61.448 ms
Worst part is it is very random. Sometimes I go 30seconds to a minute with no issues other times I get what looks like the above. Same results from all data centers.
Any word on what is causing a handful of us to lag?
Printable View
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10-24-2015, 12:08 PMRocheKatAny word on what is causing a handful of us to lag?
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10-24-2015, 01:29 PMRaist
Lots of issues persisting with peering in various regions across North America. Nothing new...comes and goes all the time.
If you run some traces, you may capture some signs of the congestion that you can forward to your ISP's tier3 support so they can look into it further and escalate it as needed to try to resolve it somehow.
Could also be issues internal to SE/Ormuco...but you'll never get them to admit it to you. But, by going through professional channels (ie, your ISP), you may get more headway. Wouldn't hurt to also submit any of your findings via a formal ticket at SE's support portal, in case it is indeed on their side of the sessions. -
10-27-2015, 03:49 PMRocheKat
7 days left on my subscription and it looks like it may be it for me. I am not going to pay for a game that I can't play, has technical support that is of no use, and doesn't even mention that there is an issue. In 15 years of online gaming I have never had to call my ISP and tell them I need a new route... that is not acceptable... period.
EDIT: I just spent 2+ hours playing rocket league and streaming netflix on my laptop. During that time I ran into one person who had a better connection than me. -
10-27-2015, 04:18 PMRaist
That game has been reporting lag issues as well. Only took me a few seconds to find complaints about it on their forums. Same goes for Netflix...big spikes in complaints tonight during primetime. It is more regionally specific than game specific. Some corridors are simply getting overloaded, and until that congestion clears somehow it will likely continue to happen for people getting routed through them.
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10-27-2015, 05:01 PMwicked-oneAnd in 10 Years as in ISP NOC, i always laughed my head off when online gamers demanded to switch routes, as if it is like changing to the other side of the street.Quote:
Originally Posted by RocheKat
I am on the lucky side here, for me, the server transfer was just a benefit. But in summer, you really saw that pike in traffic that just blew our peerings. and it was not like "hey, lets plug in some more fibers" or "lets just take another route".
It was a month long project spending several million dollars for brand new hardware on the exchanges.
Inbetween, we upgraded our google cache, which made a big deal. Funny enough "streaming netflix" is one of the main reasons most networks nowadays suffer severe congestions in primetime.
I especially don´t get it when people play AND watch netflix, as if you could pay attention to both... scientifically, you cant.
Still, you should issue Tickets to your ISP to keep some pressure up and point out the problem, as well as post in SquareEnix Threads so the topic comes from more sides than just the customers. but don´t expect a solution over night.
FunFact for the end: Never Raid on a day, where apple makes a Keynote, you wont like the Internet in that time... -
10-27-2015, 11:35 PMRaist
Oh man...I forgot about the El Capitan fallout (don't use Apple products myself). Only what...5 weeks since official launch? I imagine we will be dealing with those large downloads chewing up bandwidth for a while. Not to mention streaming for debates as well as all the games.
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10-27-2015, 11:57 PMGysonYou should give feedback here as well: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...EU-Data-CenterQuote:
Originally Posted by RocheKat
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10-29-2015, 01:51 PMRocheKat
Still no response of any kind to anyone about this. I have now lost over a weeks worth of time on my subscription... At this point I am very close to saying I am done with everything from SE. Unlike most people I protest with my wallet and I don't give in. I refuse to give people money if they don't even respect a customer enough to say that they are aware of the issue. To say I am pissed at this point would be an understatement.
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10-29-2015, 08:38 PMRaistUmmm...there is a sticky about it. Was even linked in the post right above yours. Here it is again, but this time showing the title of the thread:Quote:
Originally Posted by RocheKat
Sticky: Latency/Connection Issues Since the Launch of the EU Data Center
As to your specific connections, Allband may not peer directly with them, but the two larger ISP's they use to get to a backbone peer heavily with Level3 and AT&T...two of the most frequently reported names on this issue in the US right now. So, as suggested in that thread you should also submit a ticket to your ISP as well.
And lastly, this forum is for user-to-user support and not user-to-SE support. They have a seperate forum for reporting bugs and an official support portal for requesting support directly from SE. There is another sticky up top welcoming you to this forum that explains this. Basically this is a user sandbox for discussing issues and possible solutions. -
10-29-2015, 11:51 PMRocheKatUmmm... "We have received a lot of positive feedback from many European players reporting an improved game experience since the launch of the European data center. However, we understand that some users have begun to experience latency/connection issues over the last week since the launch on 20th October."Quote:
Originally Posted by Raist
Notice it says European players and European data center. I have contacted them in game and out... the only response anyone gets is from you... who appears to be nothing but an SE apologist. I have played a lot of different games on a lot of different ISPs and never had an issue like this. Me fixing the problem with third party options that cost money is not an option. Me having to deal with my isp to try and fix network issues in another country is not an option.
I wouldn't accept this type of issue from any other online content provider and I sure as hell won't start accepting it from SE. -
10-29-2015, 11:53 PMAshelia_FerronOkay, then bye? Do you want someone to agree with you or something? Venting about how you're not going to sub anymore doesn't change anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by RocheKat
If you don't want to sub anymore that's your problem. Don't expect the forum masses to become sympathetic -
10-30-2015, 12:00 AMRocheKatSo you are OK with paying for a product but not being able to use it? It is this kind of thinking that allows businesses to get away with the crap they do. Game developers are among the worst offenders of producing crap and charging people for it. This fanboy style defense is exactly why they get away with it and I see it on every forum of every game that has some kind of major issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron
I am not venting about how I don't want to sub anymore. I am venting about how their awful support is going to lose them my money... making sure it is clear to them in multiple formats. -
10-30-2015, 12:12 AMAshelia_FerronIf a product doesn't work, no, I don't pay for it. But my connection is perfectly fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by RocheKat
If it suddenly became not fine, I certainly wouldn't rant about it in a forum. I'd contact directly. And of I got no response, then I'd be done with them and that's that.
There's no need to get all up in arms in a public community forum -
10-30-2015, 01:33 AMworldofneilThe product (servers) are however working just fine. It's your connection to the servers that has the problem. Your Internet provider chooses how you get to their server and it's their choice of routes which puts you down a path that causes lag on route.Quote:
Originally Posted by RocheKat
Square Enix have no control over how you are routed to their server, neither do they have any control of any of the nodes on the Internet not managed by them (i.e. all of them before you get to their server!).
SE created a thread so that players can leave feedback and so they can be seen to be actually doing something, but realistically there isn't anything they can do outside of attempting to contact them and saying "Your users are having problems connecting to us, can you pretty please route around the problem networks?". Your ISP likely won't even listen to them because Square Enix isn't their customer. You are.
There is unfortunately no quick fix, but if you look in that feedback thread the same ISP names keep popping up (Orange being the main one!) and the amount of people who haven't actually reported it to their ISP...
Yes it might be Square Enix's game, but you need to talk to your ISP. If enough customers actually did that then they might actually pay attention and do something.
Square Enix cannot fix this, your ISP must do it. -
10-30-2015, 01:58 AMRocheKatSo just a coincidence that it started the day they made major changes to their data center?Quote:
Originally Posted by worldofneil
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10-30-2015, 02:04 AMworldofneilYou mean the day they move the data centre from Canada to Germany? No of course that's not a coincidence, no one is saying that it is...Quote:
Originally Posted by RocheKat
The server you connect/play on has moved 1/4 round the world. Your path across the Internet to the new location is completely different to your path to the old server. That was going to happen wherever SE set up the new servers.
If you think of it in physical terms, if you had a friend in Canada and they moved to Germany, if you were visiting them you would go in a completely different direction (down different roads/air paths). This is exactly the same. Your friend moved house, they have no control over the quality of the roads you have to take to get to their new house, they just moved. The road quality is not their problem and nothing to do with them. The local authorities would be the ones responsible for helping to make your journey smoother (or in Internet terms, your Internet Provider).
Just because SE set up new servers in a new country, still doesn't mean they control your ISP routing on how *you* get to the servers. I don't know how people can expect them to have total control over the Internet... -
10-30-2015, 02:18 AMEmpty-handed
then explain why some of NA and JP player (myself) getting lag -.- ?
SE is the common factor here... for all of us.! it cant be all of us having ISP routing issue. -
10-30-2015, 02:37 AMAshelia_FerronI could counter that argument and point towards all the other users who DON'T have lag, which I'm fairly confident outweighs the number of people who do by a large margin, or else we'd see a LOT more problem threads popping upQuote:
Originally Posted by Empty-handed
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10-30-2015, 02:43 AMworldofneilI think I've mixed up my threads, I've been talking about the Chaos data centre move and for any confusion caused I apologise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty-handed
But to answer your question, if the lag was completely SE's end then doesn't it seem reasonable that everyone would have it? And there's not massive amounts of people complaining in game, on places like Reddit or even on these forums (I can see there are complaints, but not compared to the actual number of players) so it really suggests the majority of players AREN'T having an issue?
I know that's no help at all to you, but the best advice is still to contact your Internet provider and tell them you're having a problem connecting to certain networks. They can route you around troubled areas if you can get high enough up in their support for them to actually change anything. -
10-30-2015, 03:48 AMRaistQuote:
Originally Posted by Empty-handed
Actually.. the common factors appear to mostly be Orange and/or Telia for Chaos, and AT&T and/or Level3 for Aether/Primal, and their partners/affiliates. Don't think I've seen TATA brought up with this issue yet (who I am currently peered with...and I have no issues). -
10-30-2015, 03:50 AMl1nk
I dont understand u guys with all that connection issues. I found it hilarious today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVXYLzIV3Cs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoDpuqCgXwg -
10-30-2015, 04:10 AMRaistNo... there is a ton of activity on the internet at any given moment, and we become more and more dependent on the internet daily for so many aspects of our lives--just streaming alone has ramped up our consumption drastically with all the apps for things like sports and news, not to mention things like Netflix. You are also in the Great Lakes area if I remember right? Which means you are getting routed through areas that routinely exhibit problems. And, as I mentioned, the peering agreements your ISP has in place are weighted heavily towards Level3 and AT&T--the two most frequently reported ISP's at the moment. Didn't I mention that in my previous post?Quote:
Originally Posted by RocheKat
And no... that does not make me an apologist for SE. The facts are the facts...if anything, I'm more a realist I guess? There is documentation spanning back into the 90's over these issues. Filings with the FCC. Forum posts all over the place for various services--and not all of them games. There is a known infrastructure problem in the US...it is why the Net Neutrality movement started in the first place. The problem is people flat out refuse to hold their ISP accountable...when they are the ones that contributed most to the situation we are in. Think about it...how much has the bandwidth increased since Clinton was President? (back then the premium residential was typically no more than 3Mbits, 6 and 10 were still the typical max when Bush Jr. took over) How many times have the standards been revamped? (back then, DOCSIS 1.x was deployed and 2.0 was coming in...3.1 is now deployed). Would it surprise you to know that some local ISP's are still using equipment that has not gone beyond a standard established between 1998 and 2000?
The internet can go down at any point for any reason...just like a flight can get delayed/cancelled, traffic can get jammed, or your mail/packages don't arrive on time. That doesn't mean it is the fault of the hotel you made your reservation with, the coliseum hosting that sporting event, or Amazon that shipped your package on time. It is because something happened in transit to cause your plans to get monkeyed up. -
10-30-2015, 04:14 AMRaistAnd you keep paying your ISP for their service, which apparently may be failing you. Why aren't you putting your money where your mouth is with them?Quote:
Originally Posted by RocheKat
I and others did with TWC here about two years ago (for this game, have gone to them off and on for nearly 20 years now with this sort of thing...and it has always worked). We actually found a DOCSIS 1.1 CMTS in play at our headend...and the outrage ensued (it was a device from 1998). The CMTS is basically what "terminates" our cable transmission so it can get onto a normal network (data on cable is packed differently, as it is designed for video transmission). Basically, it was only capable of speeds less than half of what was being pushed into the market---and it wasn't even able to keep up with 15Mbit connections anymore because everyone is trying to move to the higher tiers and exhausting it's throughput--not to mention it was only bonding 4 channels when what they were selling calls for 8 channel modems.
The point is... they were caught deliberately overselling and under-supporting their market, and we held them to task for it. -
10-30-2015, 04:26 AMRaistLOL. Easy to do... there's only like 20 threads on the same topic now, and only like 2 pages of posts in the sticky.Quote:
Originally Posted by worldofneil
Regardless, what you said is technically true. Whether it was to Europe, Japan, or right next door...the same principles apply when it comes to the internet. To get to a server I know is physically right down the street (our team built/installed it in 2006), I go all the way up into North Carolina and back...the data travels north of 250 miles round trip, just to hit a server 8 miles away--and it is even hosted on TWC as well! -
10-31-2015, 07:49 AMMoonraker
I posted a detailed post over on the official Lag Issue thread where it appears that, at least from my analysis, the issue is partly due to the Frankfurt network backbone hops but a large part seems to be actually on the KDDI host network for the European Data Center (Chaos).
The relevant post is here which includes some PingPlotter images showing the problem which is happening each primetime since the move and more details from what I can see.
I did include instructions at the end if you want to test it also. Pingplotter is free (has a paid option/s but usable for 20 days or simpler free version) or just using simple Ping testing built into Windows etc.
Network issues are always tough to pinpoint but when the users ping is lower and fairly consistent, it points towards other issues like pack loss and/ or possibly actual server load issues. From what is seen so far, it looks like the network is either not coping correctly with the primetime traffic load or some other reason why connections have dropped packets or similar symptoms.
it doesn't mean it is not a wider network issue with the player IS{ etc. but it does at least help to try and narrow the issues down and is something that SE should be able to address and fix. -
10-31-2015, 11:35 AMRaist
There is packet loss occurring earlier in your route though...mostly around the Level3 portions. Congestion is ramping up at the opentransit/Level3 exchange...well before it gets to KDDI (which is fairly consistent with other reports). That is an election made from your ISP's policies, not SE.
For a comparison, here is some data on my connection from here in the states:
While there is a bit more jitter than I'd like, the latency is at a somewhat manageable level, and not a massive issue with packet loss (100/100 made it). The difference is in the routing. They are both using routes to get to KDDI's ASN, but the one I am given is considerably more stable.Quote:
C:\Windows\system32>tracert neolobby06.ffxiv.com
Tracing route to neolobby06.ffxiv.com [195.82.50.9]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms LPTSRV [10.10.100.1]
2 43 ms 27 ms 30 ms cpe-75-176-160-1.sc.res.rr.com [75.176.160.1]
3 26 ms 33 ms 34 ms cpe-024-031-198-005.sc.res.rr.com [24.31.198.5]
4 16 ms 12 ms 13 ms clmasoutheastmyr-rtr2.sc.rr.com [24.31.196.210]
5 24 ms 25 ms 28 ms be33.drhmncev01r.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.180]
6 55 ms 56 ms 57 ms bu-ether45.asbnva1611w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [107.14.19.44]
7 63 ms 31 ms 47 ms 0.ae0.pr0.dca10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.183]
8 54 ms 58 ms 61 ms ash-b2-link.telia.net [195.12.255.229]
9 32 ms 31 ms 32 ms ash-bb4-link.telia.net [213.155.130.2]
10 128 ms 127 ms 134 ms ffm-bb2-link.telia.net [80.91.246.63]
11 126 ms 127 ms 129 ms ffm-b10-link.telia.net [80.91.247.189]
12 127 ms 130 ms 140 ms kddi-ic-301630-ffm-b10.c.telia.net [62.115.32.110]
13 129 ms 129 ms 129 ms 195.82.60.29
14 129 ms 131 ms 128 ms 195.82.61.14
15 126 ms 129 ms 128 ms 195.82.50.234
16 129 ms 129 ms 130 ms 195.82.50.9
Trace complete.
C:\Windows\system32>ping neolobby06.ffxiv.com -n 100
Ping statistics for 195.82.50.9:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 125ms, Maximum = 173ms, Average = 131ms
**Note this is while my mom is streaming to the Roku downstairs on the wi-fi, and I am also in game on the wi-fi waiting on DF...and the numbers are still pretty solid from the US.
You are showing excessive jitter early in the route that may trigger retransmits, as well as packet losses within your ISP's network. In the longer sample you have over 14% in combined losses tracked before you even hit the Level3/KDDI exchange. Each of those hops is showing lost packets when they were pinged--indicating there is heavy congestion impacting response times (also evidenced by the extended spikes). If you could get a pathping to complete, you might actually see some delays estimated on the forwarding side as well because of high utilization. When I ran a pathping just now, my route came up clean:
Code:C:\Windows\system32>pathping neolobby06.ffxiv.com
Tracing route to neolobby06.ffxiv.com [195.82.50.9]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
0 G75VXLAP [10.10.100.10]
1 LPTSRV [10.10.100.1]
2 cpe-75-176-160-1.sc.res.rr.com [75.176.160.1]
3 cpe-024-031-198-005.sc.res.rr.com [24.31.198.5]
4 clmasoutheastmyr-rtr2.sc.rr.com [24.31.196.210]
5 be33.drhmncev01r.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.180]
6 bu-ether45.asbnva1611w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [107.14.19.44]
7 0.ae0.pr0.dca10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.183]
8 ash-b2-link.telia.net [195.12.255.229]
9 ash-bb4-link.telia.net [213.155.130.2]
10 ffm-bb2-link.telia.net [80.91.246.63]
11 ffm-b10-link.telia.net [80.91.251.250]
12 kddi-ic-301630-ffm-b10.c.telia.net [62.115.32.110]
13 195.82.60.29
14 195.82.61.14
15 195.82.50.234
16 195.82.50.9
Computing statistics for 400 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0 G75VXLAP [10.10.100.10]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 2ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% LPTSRV [10.10.100.1]
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 16ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% cpe-75-176-160-1.sc.res.rr.com [75.176.160.1]
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 20ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% cpe-024-031-198-005.sc.res.rr.com [24.31.198.5]
0/ 100 = 0% |
4 13ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% clmasoutheastmyr-rtr2.sc.rr.com [24.31.196.210]
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 25ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% be33.drhmncev01r.southeast.rr.com [24.93.64.180]
0/ 100 = 0% |
6 32ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% bu-ether45.asbnva1611w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [107.14.19.44]
0/ 100 = 0% |
7 33ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 0.ae0.pr0.dca10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.183]
0/ 100 = 0% |
8 30ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% ash-b2-link.telia.net [195.12.255.229]
0/ 100 = 0% |
9 31ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% ash-bb4-link.telia.net [213.155.130.2]
0/ 100 = 0% |
10 138ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% ffm-bb2-link.telia.net [80.91.246.63]
0/ 100 = 0% |
11 125ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% ffm-b10-link.telia.net [80.91.251.250]
0/ 100 = 0% |
12 129ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% kddi-ic-301630-ffm-b10.c.telia.net [62.115.32.110]
0/ 100 = 0% |
13 129ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 195.82.60.29
0/ 100 = 0% |
14 130ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 195.82.61.14
0/ 100 = 0% |
15 127ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 195.82.50.234
0/ 100 = 0% |
16 128ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 195.82.50.9
Trace complete.
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10-31-2015, 05:42 PMl1nk
Square - is there any chance it will be fixed before 3.1 launch?
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10-31-2015, 08:33 PMRaistMay be better to direct that question to your ISP.Quote:
Originally Posted by l1nk
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10-31-2015, 10:12 PMl1nk
My ISP keeps telling me 'works on our side, have a good day'.
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10-31-2015, 10:18 PMRaistThan they are likely only looking at your localized nodes. You may still be working with the first tiers of support--need a higher level. Tier3 is the group with the means to conduct a more in depth look at the situation, as it is usually deeper in then tiers 1 & 2 are allowed to tinker.Quote:
Originally Posted by l1nk
Here is an article with some details on the levels.of multi-tiered suppor. It is more in the scope of software projects, but the same principles apply to in the networking world. The structure is pretty universal, and is even used in places like the service department at a car dealership.
http://project-management.com/unders...-desk-support/ -
11-05-2015, 02:51 AMl1nk
Is it only me or connection got much more stable? (Orange Poland) Tho ping gained 100ms
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11-05-2015, 04:14 AMShogunStrider
My game has gotten much more stable since this past weekend. No real work done on my end either; contacted my ISP and they said there wasn't anything they could do about it because they could "find no outage" in my area (i.e. they had no clue what I was talking about). Can still be kind of touchy during prime time hours, but I can deal with that. Other players I've PUG'd with though have still complained about delays, however.