no heal skill

don't know if this should go into the dps role area or not but is it just me or does anyone else notice mch do not have their own heal skill.... i mean brd, nin, drg, and war have second wind pld has cure and clemency blm and smn get physic ... and mch gets nothing, :confused: wat the hell SE :mad: ... so quality of life for mch can we also cross class with mnk PLZ.... or at least give mch their own heal skill, i've played as every class and any amount of ability to alleviate healers to not have to constantly watch the dps is better healing for the tanks

The fact that machinists can't cross class from monk makes me really sad. Internal release/second wind are SO helpful.

As a blm, I'll trade physick for a dps skill any day. It's basically a wasted cross class spot; it's uses limited to a niche role in a handful of main scenario quests.

"any amount of ability to alleviate healers"

If that's how you're using it, please stop. If you're grouped with a healer you have 0 reason to touch your healing spells as a dps.

I know other jobs who'd rather have a MCH's cross class actions.

TBH, MNK cross class skills aren't that good. Why do you even need that self heal anyway?

I'd take Invigorate/BFB or Raging Strikes/Quelling Strikes anyday.

BLM and SMN really only have a healing skill in theory. Unless you're somehow geared for healing (which would be stupid) physic recovers less hp than an auto-attack will remove, so stopping your attack to heal will only mean that you're going to die a bit more slowly. If desperate, I suppose a BLM can cast sleep and then physic 10-15 times to recover about half of their hp, but of course that would only work while soloing and you can have a bird if you need healing.

use your chocobo to heal yourself.

Ok we will just stand around in Ishgard while I wait for queues since I can't have my bird out and queue at the same time. Awesome suggestion guys keep it up. Oh also I'll pull my bird out when I'm in a party and just need a quick heal to not waste the healers mana. Perfect!

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Originally Posted by Aamalthea

Ok we will just stand around in Ishgard while I wait for queues since I can't have my bird out and queue at the same time. Awesome suggestion guys keep it up. Oh also I'll pull my bird out when I'm in a party and just need a quick heal to not waste the healers mana. Perfect!

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So did you have a meaningful point or what?

Self-heals are handy for giving healers time to get around to you if they were busy casting another spell or AoEs are unfeasible (usually people being too spread out), and have some usefulness while soloing, but they're hardly critical.

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Originally Posted by Misurugi

any amount of ability to alleviate healers to not have to constantly watch the dps is better healing for the tanks

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Please don't do this. I assure you, healers are more than equipped to heal the party as well as the tanks. While I agree it'd be nice for machinist to have access to Second Wind (mostly for soloing), skills like that are generally for emergency use only.

I can totally see OPs point as a valid point, for a couple reasons.

If you're leveling, a lot of people like running dungeons for the XP. If you're sitting in a long queue, you can do Fates for extra XP. However, you cannot have a choco out while queueing. You cannot be in a "Fate party" (which would normally have a healer, though not always) while queuing. So, you're forced to have no self heal at all while doing Fates (in these situations) or you're forced to sit around AFK while waiting for the half hour DF queue. Either way, MCH is the only class with absolutely no access to a self heal.

Not to mention, in PVP. You're, again, the only class who has no access to a self heal. While this is not game breaking/changing, I totally feel for machinists on this one.

Ok we will just stand around in Ishgard while I wait for queues since I can't have my bird out and queue at the same time. Awesome suggestion guys keep it up. Oh also I'll pull my bird out when I'm in a party and just need a quick heal to not waste the healers mana. Perfect!

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

I know other jobs who'd rather have a MCH's cross class actions.

TBH, MNK cross class skills aren't that good. Why do you even need that self heal anyway?

I'd take Invigorate/BFB or Raging Strikes/Quelling Strikes anyday.

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That's 4 skill slots out of 5 that you can use. Beyond that, you have keen flurry and feint. The former that rarely amounts to mitigation and the latter only being feasible to use an GCD while moving with GB active (which is never when you can just turn it off and re-enable it on the go). MNK cross skills are by no means bad, but I wouldn't take it over DRG/BRD if we're only limited to 2 classes to cross from.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

As a blm, I'll trade physick for a dps skill any day. It's basically a wasted cross class spot; it's uses limited to a niche role in a handful of main scenario quests.

"any amount of ability to alleviate healers"

If that's how you're using it, please stop. If you're grouped with a healer you have 0 reason to touch your healing spells as a dps.

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You can't really compare second wind to physick though. SW works off attack potency and is oGCD (meaning you can use without interrupting your damage rotation) while phyisck scales off mind stat.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

You can't really compare second wind to physick though. SW works off attack potency and is oGCD (meaning you can use without interrupting your damage rotation) while phyisck scales off mind stat.

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It was op that made the comparison. Op also included pld cure.

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Originally Posted by Misurugi

don't know if this should go into the dps role area or not but is it just me or does anyone else notice mch do not have their own heal skill.... i mean brd, nin, drg, and war have second wind pld has cure and clemency blm and smn get physic ... and mch gets nothing, :confused: wat the hell SE :mad: ... so quality of life for mch can we also cross class with mnk PLZ.... or at least give mch their own heal skill, i've played as every class and any amount of ability to alleviate healers to not have to constantly watch the dps is better healing for the tanks

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MCH does receive a self heal for pvp; definitely a QoL improvement. Otherwise, Use mega potions for PvE; they're plentiful and only a 4 min CD.

I'd love to be able to cross-class Second Wind. Soloing stuff with a MCH (I do quests while queued so no chocobo out) makes me feel squishy.

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Originally Posted by Aamalthea

Ok we will just stand around in Ishgard while I wait for queues since I can't have my bird out and queue at the same time. Awesome suggestion guys keep it up. Oh also I'll pull my bird out when I'm in a party and just need a quick heal to not waste the healers mana. Perfect!

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a single chakra all 2 minutes wont help you either

To say that when everything now is such a tight dps check that if a dps has to choose between a pot that boosts their main stat for a shot at the best possible chance at putting the most dps in possible to beat a turn in savage alex vs a pot that will put all other pots on gcd along with it so they can only use one or the other which could be the make or break of say the first viable clear. I would put more faith in my healers and expect them to be able to capably do their jobs than use an hp pot over a dex pot. I have mch at 60 so I can speak from exp a little lvling up. It sucks not having 2nd wind and soloing maybe I would use pots but in a raid situation, that's what healers are for. The mch shouldn't have to pot to live in raid over main stat pot. If you have to pot to live, get new healers imo.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

MCH does receive a self heal for pvp; definitely a QoL improvement. Otherwise, Use mega potions for PvE; they're plentiful and only a 4 min CD.

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Not being able to heal myself is what I hate most when DPSing solo. Even 1 to 30 a cure or physick tends not to be worth it on a DPS and Second Wind and healing pots have long cooldowns that really hurt if you're in a Fate along and getting pelted by lots of monsters.

Hopefully they manage to implement queueing with chocobos soon...

lol I don't know about you, but even if I use my heal skill right away, the healer is usual already healing me before I do. Its their jobs~ XD You should be worrying about not getting hit, not trying to heal.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

lol I don't know about you, but even if I use my heal skill right away, the healer is usual already healing me before I do. Its their jobs~ XD You should be worrying about not getting hit, not trying to heal.

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Are you having trouble reading what people are saying? There have been multiple posts in this thread that have given examples that don't center around actually having a healer in a dungeon or raid.

Use a potion :D someone has to.

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Originally Posted by Misurugi

any amount of ability to alleviate healers to not have to constantly watch the dps is better healing for the tanks

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Yeah, we're not as busy as everyone thinks we are.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Use a potion :D someone has to.

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They didn't scale potions for level 60s lol

If you're having trouble soloing a non boss fate then the problem is not lack of self heal. And if it's a boss fate then physick/second wind aren't gonna help as much as y'all think.

So the only time I see this being a problem is if you're soloing a boss fate while also queued, which is awfully specific, and entirely avoidable (just do other fates).

I'd honestly like to see some sort of turret skill in the future that let's us heal for a portion of the damage it does for a set duration. It'd be like a HoT skill, but your turret would gain all the aggro from it, and you wouldn't be able to use it outside of combat so there wouldn't be as much of a risk of pulling aggro before the tank could generate it. Understandably it would be weaker when using Bishop than Rook though......

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Originally Posted by Averax

Yeah, we're not as busy as everyone thinks we are.

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Psssssst :x

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

If that's how you're using it, please stop. If you're grouped with a healer you have 0 reason to touch your healing spells as a dps.

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Alexander Floor 1 .. Opressor and 0.5 are jumping and you run to the opposite where they will crash. The Time it takes for them to land is a huge Time Gap, which of course ... you could use for Healing your Mates.
Espescially when one of the DPS failed to kill one of the Adds under the Laser and the big Missile just exploded...
Tell me, the moment one of the HLR has around 1-2k HP because of this, would you rather use 2-3 Physics (My BLM does 400-450 each Physics) or just stand around doing nothing?

Do nothing and save yourself the MP.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

Alexander Floor 1 .. Opressor and 0.5 are jumping and you run to the opposite where they will crash. The Time it takes for them to land is a huge Time Gap, which of course ... you could use for Healing your Mates.
Espescially when one of the DPS failed to kill one of the Adds under the Laser and the big Missile just exploded...
Tell me, the moment one of the HLR has around 1-2k HP because of this, would you rather use 2-3 Physics (My BLM does 400-450 each Physics) or just stand around doing nothing?

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Any good healer worries about themselves first so if you're going to heal anyone in that situation you should probably heal yourself. As a healer, if I have a choice between me dying and a DPS dying, I make sure to find a moment to raise the DPS.

I'd rather have RS+HE and Inv+BFB than IR+SW.

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

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99% of the time that that happens, you're just gonna cause overhealing. That's an aoe heal situation and you're single target healing, meaning one person will be getting disproportionately higher heals, which will just be overhealing. You're just gonna make it look like your healer was overhealing more than they were, just so you could pretend like you were contributing. You also can't maintain ui through the whole jump, meaning you'll have less mp when it lands and your rotation is gonna be skewed, either by getting less fires or by wasting a gcd opening with blizz to get back on track.

You're example is also predicated on people failing mechanics. It's not a bad idea to have back up plans, but plan A should be your dps not being awful (especially if we're talking about normal mode... there are only 2 missiles, that's a particular level of awful; we shouldn't be assuming this is a legitimate reason because if it is then the player base has bigger problems and we should deal with those first).

So yeah, I'll actually stand around doing nothing. Trying to do something will accomplish nothing, and will adversely affect my ability to do the thing that's my actual responsibility. Trust your healer to handle healing. And let them trust you to dps.

heal skills are good for emergencies... because a dead dps does 0 dps. Murphy's law is real mkay.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

If that's how you're using it, please stop. If you're grouped with a healer you have 0 reason to touch your healing spells as a dps.

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Physick, sure. Second wind, however, especially as melee DPS, should see lots of use on any enemy/boss that has PBAoEs. Unless that AoE is going to do over 6k a second wind, oGCD can heal a large enough percentage of it to make taking it in the face to stay glued to an enemy and eke out more DPS an entirely viable choice. Especially if you also pop a defensive cooldown in preparation for the hit.

Second wind isn't REALLY a healing tool in group content. It's a DPS tool used to let you stick in place to do damage when you'd normally have to retreat.

I don't know how often that'd be useful for ranged DPS classes but.