Anyone miss the old pet jobs from ffxi?

Not asking for changes, but I do miss my wyvern and summons from ffxi. I know Drg and Smn are powerful dps currently but ever now and then I miss my old ffxi smn and drg. How about you guys?

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Originally Posted by AylmerOfFamfrit

Not asking for changes, but I do miss my wyvern and summons from ffxi. I know Drg and Smn are powerful dps currently but ever now and then I miss my old ffxi smn and drg. How about you guys?

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I too miss some elements from XI's SMN, visually the Egi should resemble the Avatars/Primals more.

I miss Beast Master and Puppet Master from Final Fantasy XI

I was really excited for summoner to come out when I was in beta, until I got to see what it actually was. I was really disappointed. It just doesn't feel like a 'summoner' to me.

I did end up enjoying it enough to play it as my first job to 50, so the job itself is fine, but the disappointment that it wasn't what I was hoping for it to be never went away.

As a point of reference, my all time fav FF char was Rydia the Caller, so when I heard 'summoner' that's where my mind went.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

I miss Beast Master and Puppet Master from Final Fantasy XI

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I thought I was the only one. I'd really love it if they brought back Courier Carrie and Beastmaster somehow—especially if the pet was integral to the classes playstyle.

"Anyone miss the old pet jobs from ffxi? "

Every. Single. Day.

I miss BST so bad. And "real" summons instead of digim... I mean "egis".

Yes ; ; I main smn in xiv...but it doesn't feel like a summoner to me :(

The egi are very underwhelming D:

Nope, I'm happy that the summoner them from XI didn't get into XIV.
I do miss beastmaster and puppetmaster.

People say they miss XI's Summoner but I don't think they realize how lackluster and horrible imbalanced they were compared to other jobs. They were a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none who literally couldn't do anything with out a avatar out and were outdone by every job that had a specialized function. Nuking and Elemental Damage? Black Mage trumped them. Physical Damage? Monk and Ranger. Healing? White Mage. Buffing? Bard and Corsair. Debuffing? Red Mage, Dancer, and Geomancer.
I think Puppetmaster and Beastmaster were the best two representations of pet-users in XI.

You guys really need to make a "FFXI Megathread" to thin out the individual threads.

Honestly the main reason why i stopped playing SMN(was my first class in ARR) is the lack of the feeling i had when i played XI. Hell, i recently went back to XI unlocked SMN And that feeling when i summenoned carby. chills through my spine. I remember getting shiva my first primal summon, It felt good, it felt amazing. I felt like a SMN. i do not even get close to that feeling in XIV. As i dropped the class for PLD when i hit 50 on SMN,(Back in 2.0)

I miss the wyverns of DRG one of the reasons why i didn't play it for a while(Leveling it as we speak) Its missed but not forgotten class works perfectly fine without. But going back to SMN it just isn't a SMN in my eyes and i wished they did something else with it, Feels more like a warlock right now.

Not to speak of the visuals of the egi's. I heard about Egi glamour and once again i was disappointed. I thought, yeah some more egi's maybe they'll give em some unique versatile abilities or what ever. But as far as i know, they're just glamours. Shame!

Just my opinion though.

FFXI pet jobs ranked. Pup because you could customize pet, BST because you could dps and solo with it, DRG because it added dps, and SMN in dead last because you could /whm with it.

Seriously people need to take off the rose tinted glasses. Sure FFXI avatars looked fancy but completely useless without a subjob defining it. Perp cost stopped it from being a dps, lack of cures stopped it from being a healer, no refresh stopped it from being support, and pet hp stopped it from being a tank. The only niche people found for it was SMN/WHM and pet abilities to help where the /37 whm lacked.

SMN/BLM is generally the way they are played these days, at 99, as there's a lot of ways to reduce the perpetuation costs. But that's an aside. When people say they miss FFXI's SMN, they're obviously not missing the fact that they were nigh unusable for a large chunk of the game's life: rather, they miss the aesthetic and style. FFXIV's SMN is pretty different in terms of aesthetics from FFXI's SMN and the presentation of SMN in most other FF games as well.

Well the main reason Egi are so small is because players need to see ground effect to dodge. You just can't these massive creatures blocking the view. On the flip side I think FFXIV devs aren't really handling the pets very will either. 3.0 makes it seem they just shrugged and gave up trying to make it work while pleasing the player base. IMO, MCH Rook and Bishop are better pets than Egi because each have unique purposes in fights instead of a blanket catch all. Even SCH fairies are more specialized.

Whats funny is I made a post back in 2004 about how SE's next MMO should not have summoner, but instead give each job it's own primal limit break. I do think the community will be happier if Yoshi-P decides to ever add FC primal summoning.

omg yes. FFXIV is great, don't get me wrong, but I feel like it's a downgrade in some areas when compared to FFXI. Why a 14 year old game gets full summons and a brand new one gets stupid egis is beyond me. I can't even play summoner in this game because of this lol.

Beastmaster was also a heck of alot of fun and I loved exploring the world and soloing everything with Courier Carrie. There's no comparison in FFXIV. Pup was also fun and flavorful, although I felt like it should have been more than just gimped monk with pet. And i use to love bursting with my wyvern's breath.

Seriously I would be the most excited dude in the world if they made bst for ffxiv.

The Egis could stand to be a little larger and more resemble their primal cousins, I think. Titan and Ifrit shouldn't float--I think it's quite silly that they do.

One thing I wish they would do, since we're not likely to see Egis change, is determine the effects for SMN's LB based on their currently summoned Egi. That way they could at least have the classic summon overdrives/astral flows. Terraflare is cool and all, but it sorta doesn't feel very SMN-esque to me.

Whilst I never got to play FFXI, I do agree with the general sentiment here. Summoner was my first choice for job in FFXIV, until I learned more about them. I was very disappointed. I really like their current playstyle, but they really don't feel like summoners at all. I know we can't have full size summons roaming the battlefield as it would be mayhem, but I would love to see some long cast time summoning spells more akin to traditional FF summoning. Summon Shiva, have her pop out and do diamond dust then disappear. It would look spectacular, would feel like a summoner (which is exactly what I wanted in the first place) and they could have easily designed the class around that style of gameplay. I hope they do something different with this, at least.

I come from a different background than FFXI and I like the permanent pets. However, Ifrit is almost unusable (dies too easily) and the looks are pretty silly.

Anyone have any idea when the new egi glamour might be patched in?

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

FFXI pet jobs ranked. Pup because you could customize pet, BST because you could dps and solo with it, DRG because it added dps, and SMN in dead last because you could /whm with it.

Seriously people need to take off the rose tinted glasses. Sure FFXI avatars looked fancy but completely useless without a subjob defining it. Perp cost stopped it from being a dps, lack of cures stopped it from being a healer, no refresh stopped it from being support, and pet hp stopped it from being a tank. The only niche people found for it was SMN/WHM and pet abilities to help where the /37 whm lacked.

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So you quit the game before Astral Burn parties were a thing then?

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Originally Posted by Alahra

The Egis could stand to be a little larger and more resemble their primal cousins, I think. Titan and Ifrit shouldn't float--I think it's quite silly that they do.

One thing I wish they would do, since we're not likely to see Egis change, is determine the effects for SMN's LB based on their currently summoned Egi. That way they could at least have the classic summon overdrives/astral flows. Terraflare is cool and all, but it sorta doesn't feel very SMN-esque to me.

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Ifrit I can live with floating but Titan floating is blasphemous.

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Originally Posted by AylmerOfFamfrit

Not asking for changes, but I do miss my wyvern and summons from ffxi. I know Drg and Smn are powerful dps currently but ever now and then I miss my old ffxi smn and drg. How about you guys?

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No. I'm so tired of seeing the same thing over and over about summoner. Because old FFXI summoner was a manatank white mage for at least the first 3 years that it was in the game. People also overestimate how good the summons/effects looked. Major nostalgia goggles.

What a lot of people want for summoner is some iteration of the (generally overpowered) aoe nuker it is in other games in the series which is untenable in an MMO.

This is a bigger issue because "feel" is the same reason why some people are against things like Drk being a tank class or the addition of blue/red mage because they may not function exactly like they do in the rest of the series. Personally, I'd much rather them use classic jobs and take a spin on them so that they fit into XIV/the balance of the game rather than add a bunch of jobs with no history/connection to FF.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

What a lot of people want for summoner is some iteration of the (generally overpowered) aoe nuker it is in other games in the series which is untenable in an MMO.

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Literally no one has asked for this in this thread, or really in any other SMN thread to my knowledge. The only comparisons that have ever been made have been to the FFXI SMN, which was NOT an AoE nuker! or to the fact there is not a focus on Summoning using the traditional SMN as a means of comparison. I would also like to point out that since the implementation of Dreadwyrm Trance/Deathflare, FFXIV's SMN IS an AoE nuker!....

But anyways as far as game play goes the Egi play exactly the same as the Avatars from XI. (They have all the same signature moves, attack on auto or command, and the Enkindles are just as flashy as the Astral Flows) The only difference between them is their size/visual design. Both of which could easily be altered by the devs, there is definitely enough leeway to increase the size of the Egi to at least match the size of a max height Au Ra. Furthermore the upcoming glamour system is the perfect opportunity for the devs to rework the overall look of the Egi also. These are not big asks.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Well the main reason Egi are so small is because players need to see ground effect to dodge. You just can't these massive creatures blocking the view. On the flip side I think FFXIV devs aren't really handling the pets very will either. 3.0 makes it seem they just shrugged and gave up trying to make it work while pleasing the player base. IMO, MCH Rook and Bishop are better pets than Egi because each have unique purposes in fights instead of a blanket catch all. Even SCH fairies are more specialized.

Whats funny is I made a post back in 2004 about how SE's next MMO should not have summoner, but instead give each job it's own primal limit break. I do think the community will be happier if Yoshi-P decides to ever add FC primal summoning.

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I disagree that Summoner shouldn't have been in FFXIV. Summoner never should have been a pet class with Poison Dots as a base. Summoner is a Sorcerer not a Warlock they are an crowd control AoE nuker and they should of had the Non Elemental spell lines like Ruin, Flare and Nova. Also if they weren't going have the Summoner summon Primals they should of been able to Evoke Hydaelyn/The Twelve and Call them for one big singnature attack then they leave.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I do think the community will be happier if Yoshi-P decides to ever add FC primal summoning.

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Although the idea of FC Summoning sounds cool, it's application does not have many uses at all. I mean in order to use the ability people would always have to run content with a full FC party. This does not happen all that often for a lot of people, so it would never be something that could be used in general PvE content. It would really only work as a new FC PvP mode or in the upcoming airship explorations in 3.1. It could never replace SMN or peoples wants for SMN.

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

Although the idea of FC Summoning sounds cool, it's application does not have many uses at all. I mean in order to use the ability people would always have to run content with a full FC party. This does not happen all that often for a lot of people, so it would never be something that could be used in general PvE content. It would really only work as a new FC PvP mode or in the upcoming airship explorations in 3.1. It could never replace SMN or peoples wants for SMN.

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Depends on the implementation. My idea was when an FC member defeats a roaming primal, a gauge fills up. When full you can pick up an item called Magicite. Use it battle summons the primal for a flashy special move then vanishes. Most of the people that complain about Egi appearance don't even main SMN so cracking open Magicite and call forth the primal they want would help.

Still the fact these thread still pop up after SE's grand "Deathflare will please everyone" should show they need to take a long hard look at Egi design and that it does need improvements.

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Originally Posted by SoloWingMetatron

Literally no one has asked for this in this thread, or really in any other SMN thread to my knowledge.

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From the second page:

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Originally Posted by Ser_P

Summon Shiva, have her pop out and do diamond dust then disappear.

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If I felt like wasting my time I have 0 doubt I could collect >100 posts of this same thing spread across the various forums.

There's literally someone asking for the exact same thing the post after yours.

If you really think you never see anyone asking for this you're willfully ignoring it.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

No. I'm so tired of seeing the same thing over and over about summoner. Because old FFXI summoner was a manatank white mage for at least the first 3 years that it was in the game. People also overestimate how good the summons/effects looked. Major nostalgia goggles.

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I played SMN when it was a manatank healer. I played it when it was second rate and best for Astral-burns. And I played it at 99 when the job was balanced pretty well with itself and it was a good DPS, buffer, and healer; lacking only in decent tanking outside of Abyssea, and only because it lacked decent enmity tools and was a bit sub-par in sustaining avatar HP.

I know the full history of the job and it had a unique take on a pet job, it was a great hybrid job that quite frankly worked once the kinks were worked out. So other DDs had better DPS, they didn't have my sustainability. So what if BRDs/CORs buffed better, they didn't have my DPS. Other healers had better HPS, but lacked my sheer versatility and physical DPS. And you know what? I didn't have to be the best, a lot, and I mean a lot, of content when low-manned benefited from hybrids.

I know the job had a sordid history, but that was FFXI's entire history, hardly limited to just SMN. The job evolved it to an amazing pet job and, in my educated opinion, a great implementation of Summoner. I'm well aware that FFXIV is its own beast with a strict structure, but that doesn't mean I don't miss FFXI|SMN and don't think some aspects FFXIV would benefit from.

This "rose-colored nostalgia glasses" isn't a good excuse anymore.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

I'd much rather them use classic jobs and take a spin on them so that they fit into XIV/the balance of the game rather than add a bunch of jobs with no history/connection to FF.

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Cannot agree with this more! I really hope they stop adding "new" jobs and give us our old ones back first. FFXIV has yet to have ANY of the classes I mained in 11, save WAR which, here, is completely different.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

No. I'm so tired of seeing the same thing over and over about summoner. Because old FFXI summoner was a manatank white mage for at least the first 3 years that it was in the game. People also overestimate how good the summons/effects looked. Major nostalgia goggles.

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This I must disagree with. FFXI's graphics still easily hold up to games today, and the avatars looked much, MUCH better than these terrible egi things.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

I disagree that Summoner shouldn't have been in FFXIV. Summoner never should have been a pet class with Poison Dots as a base. Summoner is a Sorcerer not a Warlock they are an crowd control AoE nuker and they should of had the Non Elemental spell lines like Ruin, Flare and Nova. Also if they weren't going have the Summoner summon Primals they should of been able to Evoke Hydaelyn/The Twelve and Call them for one big singnature attack then they leave.

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I agree. Rework "Astral Flow" so its on say a 15 min timer and have it summon the "real" primal for a massive attack. Or make their Limit Break summon the "real" primal version of whatever primal they have out at the time.

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Originally Posted by Shirobi

I agree. Rework "Astral Flow" so its on say a 15 min timer and have it summon the "real" primal for a massive attack. Or make their Limit Break summon the "real" primal version of whatever primal they have out at the time.

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Could you imagine how awful that would be? Like, one of those raid wipes where the team drops RIGHT when everyone blows their long CD's. Then everyone takes a break waiting for them to come back up before the next pull?

Now do it with a 15 minute cooldown. Oh god no.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

Could you imagine how awful that would be? Like, one of those raid wipes where the team drops RIGHT when everyone blows their long CD's. Then everyone takes a break waiting for them to come back up before the next pull?

Now do it with a 15 minute cooldown. Oh god no.

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That's why I'd personally like to see the same effect put on their LB3, tied to whatever Egi is summoned. If Ifrit is out, you get Hellfire. If Shiva (assuming we get pet glamours sometime before 2020), Diamond Dust, and so on.

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Originally Posted by ckc22

From the second page:


If I felt like wasting my time I have 0 doubt I could collect >100 posts of this same thing spread across the various forums.

There's literally someone asking for the exact same thing the post after yours.

If you really think you never see anyone asking for this you're willfully ignoring it.

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There is nothing about that users post that is specifically asking for something "overpowered" (as you put it) All they are asking for are temporary summons that do their signature attacks only, instead of a permanent pet. Just like Dreadwyrm Trance/Deathflare in that regard which is an "overpowered" AoE nuke! So the thing you are complaining so much about is already implemented via DT/Deathflare....

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Depends on the implementation. My idea was when an FC member defeats a roaming primal, a gauge fills up. When full you can pick up an item called Magicite. Use it battle summons the primal for a flashy special move then vanishes. Most of the people that complain about Egi appearance don't even main SMN so cracking open Magicite and call forth the primal they want would help.

Still the fact these thread still pop up after SE's grand "Deathflare will please everyone" should show they need to take a long hard look at Egi design and that it does need improvements.

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That would be a rather cool way of implementing it, however I'm not sure a full Primal could still be summoned. At least in certain situations, like in a dungeon such as Dzemael Darkhold, Summoning a full scale Levi or Bismarck would cause issues in there! lol. But perhaps a scaled down version of these Primals could be summoned for use via Magicite. That would be cool!

Yeah the I think its abundantly clear the Egi need a total visual overhaul. The current models are very rushed and would only have taken that devs about one week to produce. More polish is needed at least to bring Garuda/Titan to the same level as Ifrit (which they clearly spent the most time on).

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Originally Posted by Shirobi

I agree. Rework "Astral Flow" so its on say a 15 min timer and have it summon the "real" primal for a massive attack. Or make their Limit Break summon the "real" primal version of whatever primal they have out at the time.

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If they aren't pets and are summon spells instead then they don't need a massive cool down otherwise Dreadwrym Trance would be on a 10min cool down if we had a Bahamut Egi attached to it.

What I immediately think of when people talk about a summoner rework and absurdly long cds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV_1W9Gh4NY

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

What I immediately think of when people talk about a summoner rework and absurdly long cds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV_1W9Gh4NY

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Not all SMN discussions boil down to this though. No matter who I talk to, whether it be friends in real life, friends online, members of my FC/LS's, or people on these forums. As soon as SMN is brought up, everyone instantly agrees that the Egi are sub par and need a re-design/size increase. Asking SE to address these issues is by no means a big ask or unreasonable.

An Egi redesign and size increase can easily be implemented. People should not be defending three models that would have took even an average 3D artist about a week to make. Literally no strenuous work was put into the visuals of the Egi. Look at Titan's "oven mitts" or Garuda's broken spine and double pelvis! This is a game that is bringing SE a lot of revenue, they could easily commission a freelance artist to remodel the Egi for them as a one time job if their staff really are that pressed for time.

I should stress there is nothing wrong with the concept behind the Egi's appearance. They are a portion of the Primal (a physical manifestation of a portion of their Aether) and therefore have an appearance that is a hybrid of the Primals design and an Elemental Sprite. Which is cool, I get it. But the execution and technical prowess of the actual models is sub par. They look like place holders rather than finished models for a premium service game. Apart from Ifrit, his model is decent considering.

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

What I immediately think of when people talk about a summoner rework and absurdly long cds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV_1W9Gh4NY

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You're not listening very well.

The point is that the summons in a 14 year old game with PS2 graphics look and feel infinitely more badass than they do in a modern game. Egis are just plain lame.

The playstyle is lame because "hey, i'm a summoner. It's my job to destroy our enemies by commanding crazy intense awesome primal beings to crush them! Oh look, it's an enemy! Excuse me while i open this book that has shapes in it or something and cast a bunch of DOTs while this lame floating wind thing just kinda chills on the sidelines".

In otherwords, Summoner DPS is not focused on the summons; it's focused on nonsensical geometry magic that somehow translates into poison spells.

I really love the new changes to Summoner. I just hope they make some changes to way the egi's look. Maybe... they will add a Leviathan or Shiva egi? =D

I don't think SMN necessarily needs a total rework. I think if the devs simply redesigned the Egi's aesthetics and then for SMN's lvl 70 abilities give a focus to the Egi, then SMN would be in a pretty good place on the whole. It's clear the crux of the SMN debates are the Egi. Fix that, then you fix the issue. Hopefully the devs are wise enough to see this new Egi glamour system as an opportunity to address that issue.