Post here if you're a paladin who job changed, and why

I figure it'd probably help square enix if we have a consolidated thread that showcases how many players are unhappy with the current state of Paladin in Heavensward and have chosen to abandon the job as a result, since they apparently think it's not a huge deal and have as such not even said a word about the current state of PLD.

Having switched over to Warrior, I must say that it's amazing how better designed the class is. Even on top of the fact it kicks paladin's ass for DPS in all content by a huge margin while still being able to tank all content, it just has so much better cohension in its kit - all of its abilities synergize, and there is not a single ability I do not use on at least a semi-frequent basis (okay holmgang is a exception that ability sucks bollocks at anything besides surviving tankbusters).

Meanwhile, Paladin has a plethora of nigh useless buttons (Cover, Tempered Will), nearly useless ones (Clemency, Shield Bash), and ones that are just questionable as all hell (Spirits Within doing less damage with lower HP on a class designed to take hits? Sheltron in a meta of magical tankbusters?), and some flat out incredibly stupid decisions (Rage of Halone and Savage Blade still being behind on aggro multipliers, Circle of Scorn still being our ONLY AoE damage).

ps square enix why does paladin do less damage than dark knights when dark knights are like paladins but for magical damage, and why does the supposedly defensive tank only get a str down debuff in a magical damage meta, while the damage tank (war) gets the universal damage down debuff???

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Originally Posted by nyttyn

I figure it'd probably help square enix if we have a consolidated thread that showcases how many players are unhappy with the current state of Paladin in Heavensward and have chosen to abandon the job as a result, since they apparently think it's not a huge deal and have as such not even said a word about the current state of PLD.

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This won't help SE even slightly. Worse, it will paint an unrealistic projection of what people actually care about. A thread on the forums is obviously going to be bandwagoned by people who agree with the premise of the post.

SE can pull the real numbers whenever they want. Which jobs are people using? Which jobs are clearing turns of Alex? These are what matters.

I have said this before, PLD does not need a damage buff, or so I feel. He is a PLD I understand he is shield n sword so he must make less damage. SE would not want to match PLD's dps to Drk or War because that would be catastrophic. Instead, rebuild PLD, and fix many of its current CDs (some post say which ones), and send him to the fun department.

I love my Paladin, and I'm tired of the all the threads like this. If SE wants to change or tweak us 'dins or not it's their call. And if they do it will be off of real numbers like Viviza said and not how we feel a job is doing. If you don't like a job, don't play it.

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

I love my Paladin, and I'm tired of the all the threads like this. If SE wants to change or tweak us 'dins or not it's their call. And if they do it will be off of real numbers like Viviza said and not how we feel a job is doing. If you don't like a job, don't play it.

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ahh but here is the thing, you love it cause you still have stuff to see on PLD, and you haven't seen the full potential of PLD yet. Me and nyttyn already know everything from PLD, me and her and levels 60. We know what changes need and what improvements he needs. Of course you don't feel like he needs changes lol... YET

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Originally Posted by Tadus

ahh but here is the thing, you love it cause you still have stuff to see on PLD, and you haven't seen the full potential of PLD yet. Me and nyttyn already know everything from PLD, me and her and levels 60. We know what changes need and what improvements he needs. Of course you don't feel like he needs changes lol... YET

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I know I'll love the PLD even at 60, you know why...its a tank! I like all 3 tanks for how they play. And how the Paladin plays won't really change much with a few more abilities. A few more defensive options and an extra part to dps rotation won't really change how the Paladin has played so far. My dark knight and warrior are also sub 60, are you going to say that since 'I don't know their full potential' I can't really say I like the job?Even if I have enough pieces of the puzzle to be able to extrapolate where they're heading and if I should hang them up because of that?

I'll reiterate my position: SE has the real numbers, if they're noticing a consistent problem with a job they will make changes to it. Even if those numbers aren't in line with what our perceptions are. My perception is all three tanks are enjoyable for what they are, and play what you have fun playing regardless of others perceptions

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Originally Posted by Viviza

This won't help SE even slightly. Worse, it will paint an unrealistic projection of what people actually care about. A thread on the forums is obviously going to be bandwagoned by people who agree with the premise of the post.

SE can pull the real numbers whenever they want. Which jobs are people using? Which jobs are clearing turns of Alex? These are what matters.

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Yoshi P has literally said they listen to complaints. http://i.imgur.com/XLvOVRy.jpg I mean, this is out of context, and I could go on for pages about why PLD is in a awful place right now but people better at typing and further into the raid scene than I have already elaborated immensely on those issues.

Yes, this thread will be bandwagoned, but that's the entire point - PLD is sufficiently bad that I feel the current state of dev radio silence (seeing as how they've commented on DRK, AST, and MNK but not PLD) to be worrisome, and the hope is to raise noise in an attempt to show the devs that the current state of PLD is inexcusable. and it's not like there's a shortage of people who're circlejerking that PLD is fine when it's really not. I'm complaining because they've yet to shown they've heard the worry, and I have reason to believe it's more than just a personal issue - both in the fact PLD is really abysmal right now, and with how many people who're in Alexander complaining about the job or how more and more groups are turning toward WAR/DRK.

Honestly I don't see why people who don't have PLD at level 60 keep insisting on posting in these threads and shouting people down.

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Originally Posted by nyttyn

Honestly I don't see why people who don't have PLD at level 60 keep insisting on posting in these threads and shouting people down.

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So just because I'm not a 60 'din, I'm not valid?

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

I'll reiterate my position: SE has the real numbers, if they're noticing a consistent problem with a job they will make changes to it. Even if those numbers aren't in line with what our perceptions are. My perception is all three tanks are enjoyable for what they are, and play what you have fun playing regardless of others perceptions

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I get you, I totally do but there is bias when you say you like all tanks. When you play all three, you don't get bored because you are testing a new class, you wont see any mistakes. I wont lie, when I was your PLD Lvl I said " PLD is going to be OP now, there is nothing he is going to fail at." Now that I have played him for some time I can analyze where the flaws are. It is not like all the PLD who have posted on the forums are lying and just want to get buff lol. If PLD were truly good like you said, heck I wouldn't be writing this.

Experience says it all.

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Originally Posted by Tadus

I get you, I totally do but there is bias when you say you like all tanks. When you play all three, you don't get bored because you are testing a new class, you wont see any mistakes. I wont lie, when I was your PLD Lvl I said " PLD is going to be OP now, there is nothing he is going to fail at." Now that I have played him for some time I can analyze where the flaws are. It is not like all the PLD who have posted on the forums are lying and just want to get buff lol. If PLD were truly good like you said, heck I wouldn't be writing this.

Experience says it all.

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I know Paladins aren't perfect, neither are Darks or War(even though I know some people will blast me for this point of view). The level of complaining seems to exceed what is reality, because if things were truly as bad for paladin's as all these threads would have us believe, SE would have already stepped in.Would I mind some of the suggested Paladin changes in the various threads; no I wouldn't because some of them would smooth out even rough edges I've seen. But they aren't truly needed. I'm all for the discussions on tweaks to various classes, too a point; I just feel its gotten whiney for the sake of being whiney and people should just let SE run the numbers for a bit and see if changes should be made.

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

I know Paladins aren't perfect, neither are Darks or War(even though I know some people will blast me for this point of view). The level of complaining seems to exceed what is reality, because if things were truly as bad for paladin's as all these threads would have us believe, SE would have already stepped in.Would I mind some of the suggested Paladin changes in the various threads; no I wouldn't because some of them would smooth out even rough edges I've seen. But they aren't truly needed. I'm all for the discussions on tweaks to various classes, too a point; I just feel its gotten whiney for the sake of being whiney and people should just let SE run the numbers for a bit and see if changes should be made.

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true true dps wise, they are good, the numbers are on what PLD was meant to be. The only thing most people are asking is development in the fun zone xD and some tweaks. Those whiney people just want changes, like a group trying to see change.

Just a note since you're new, the devs aren't omnipotent beings who are always right. 2.0 WARs were considered the worse tank by far due to lack of mitigation and pretty terrible self-healing. Guess what the devs openly told those who played WAR back then?

"Git gud"

Many patches after the first complaints started, WARs got a buff to improve their mitigation (biggest change to inner beast) which made them viable again.

If the dev team hasn't had a history of being unable to spot balance issues pre-release, nobody would be complaining about the state of different jobs whenever something is released.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Just a note since you're new, the devs aren't omnipotent beings who are always right. 2.0 WARs were considered the worse tank by far due to lack of mitigation and pretty terrible self-healing. Guess what the devs openly told those who played WAR back then?

"Git gud"

Many patches after the first complaints started, WARs got a buff to improve their mitigation (biggest change to inner beast) which made them viable again.

If the dev team hasn't had a history of being unable to spot balance issues pre-release, nobody would be complaining about the state of different jobs whenever something is released.

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Trust me I know dev's aren't omnipotent beings, I've played many a MMO to prove that. I'm just saying they'll make changes when/if their numbers say changes need to be made. And who knows the changes they make might make things worse instead of better.I've just gotten to the point where I felt I needed to speak up and say, what about those of us who say ' we might have some issues, but we're not broken so keep playing and they'll(the devs) do something about it if their numbers truly say its a problem(ala your inner beast/war example)

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Originally Posted by nyttyn

I have reason to believe it's more than just a personal issue - both in the fact PLD is really abysmal right now, and with how many people who're in Alexander complaining about the job or how more and more groups are turning toward WAR/DRK.

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Ok. But you literally said "that showcases how many players are unhappy with the current state of Paladin in Heavensward and have chosen to abandon the job as a result". Now, say you get, I don't know, 34 people to agree with you. What does that mean exactly? What conclusion can you draw? Is that a lot? How many people visit the forums? How many will bother to post if they agree? If they disagree? Do you know? Maybe 512 people disagree and just can't be bothered to post. There's no way to know. There are hundreds of thousands of players, and their movements can only be understood by statistics, not if you happen to get five, twenty, or a hundred people to post to this thread.

Your "reason to believe" doesn't amount to much when they can pull the actual numbers. Your passive observations can't possibly make a good approximation. People are biased in what they see in favor of the result they are angling towards. You are biased. I am biased. The people who reply to this thread are biased.

I'm not saying that you don't have legitimate points to raise. I'm saying that you are not raising them in a constructive manner. If you have points to discuss, then raise those points. Get people talking about the issues at hand. Don't smokescreen them behind the assumption that you're leading a following of sorts.

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

So just because I'm not a 60 'din, I'm not valid?

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Going to respond directly to this because in this specific case it DOES matter.

Up to 60, Paladin is awesome. It's a fun class with a nice kit and good snappy responsive controls, it feels like a tank. It feels balanced compared to the other two tanks - less damage, more physical mitigation, a simpler class to play but lots of "oh crap" buttons. It's fun.

It's also fun when you ding 60, and when you start doing the basic content there. It's fun in Bismarck Ex, it's fun in Ravana Ex, it's fun in Alexander Normal.

Then you reach Alexander Savage and (at least until you overgear the encounter) the message is simple : Change to Warrior or DRK, or your raid group will have far less success. You are literally making at least 3 of the fights much, much harder for your raid group due to the absurd DPS requirements. Yes Paladins have now completed 2 of these 3 fights, but noone will say it's easier.

This is why paladins are whining. Currently I don't think a single Paladin is amongst the players who have cleared Alex 4 Savage. The world firsts of A1 and A3 savage were DRK/WAR. Paladins only started being able to complete these encounters once they were able to be overgeared via more and more 200/210 gear available.

Even then, even though Paladins can complete these encounters, Warrior and Dark Knight are BOTH a much better option for most raidgroups due to the fact that total raid DPS is the current stumbling block.

So no, although your opinions of a class ARE valid, you haven't reached or experienced the ONLY thing that Paladins are using as basis for their complaints - in the current meta on bleeding edge tough content, paladins are numerically worse than the other two classes, and a lot of paladins are feeling they have a really horrible choice : Job Change to Warrior, or hold back your group.

ASTs were changed in an emergency patch because they were numerically much much worse than other healers in ALL content. Paladins are fine in content where DPS doesnt matter so much, and where most attacks are physical : ie, most content before level 60. But for bleeding edge content, Paladins are a liability right now due to their poor threat making them do less DPS in an MT role than the other two tanks, and their unique utility spells being so niche that they don't really count towards the power of the class.

I'm sorry to say, but if you arent level 60 and arent in a group that's attempting Alexander Savage, your opinion ISNT as valid as Paladins that are, because most of those Paladins will agree with your opinions that the 1-59 experience is fun and fine.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

Snip

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Actually, you can see the difference while leveling up if you can play DRK and WAR pretty well while leveling up. On both of them I clear things on average 5-8 minutes faster than I do with pld in DF group, due to being able to push out damage.

I am a 60 pld working on the last phase of A3S, and I feel pld is fine how it is. I hate clemency and trying to use it efficiently with healers that are on the ball is hard, but I still think it's fine (even tho I hate it!) Them 10k+ crits tho... make me like it a lil ;)

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

The world firsts of A1 and A3 savage were DRK/WAR.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWlViWbK4GU

Only A3S and A4S were tightly tuned enough to warrant DRK/WAR for early progression, and only because you needed to min/max as hard as possible to beat both of their enrage timers.

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

So just because I'm not a 60 'din, I'm not valid?

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Because you have no firsthand experience with the problem at hands.

I shouldn't have to level another tank job to do current content when it's current. No one is looking for Paladin currently because its broken in Savage.

Took a lot of bitching to get AST fixed so I'm expecting to need a lot for PLD.

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Originally Posted by Tadus

ahh but here is the thing, you love it cause you still have stuff to see on PLD, and you haven't seen the full potential of PLD yet. Me and nyttyn already know everything from PLD, me and her and levels 60. We know what changes need and what improvements he needs. Of course you don't feel like he needs changes lol... YET

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Ok, then, as a lv60 PLD I love PLD as it is. Straightforward design with mostly useful cooldowns and now neat utility. The gameplay is fun and the job is still well-designed.

The meta is currently a mess because raids are overly relying on/emphasizing tank DPS and debuffs provided to define tanks rather than the fact the tank is supposed to take hits. Given that they added stuff specifically for off-tanking (Deliverance on WAR, not to mention the recent buff to Blood Weapon for DRK), this is one of the few instances where SE can legitimately say "you're doing it wrong" without sounding idiotic.

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

So just because I'm not a 60 'din, I'm not valid?

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Yup. The leveling experience is drastically different from the endgame experience. Also the level 50 experience is drastically different from the level 60 experience.

2.0 PLD progressing A3S atm love the class but recently switched to DRK until the issues are sorted out. Currently i feel DRK is just better in every way and theres no real benefit to bringing a PLD which is a shame. Something needs to be done about the MT dps and TP restraints plain and simple.

Paladin needs a fix. There should never be a reason to force people to change class, and in this current situation, Paladins are flocking to Dark Knight in droves, because of DPS issues. With most of the damage Alex brings being Magic Damage, Paladin even loses its edge as the "Defensive Tank". Even a chunk of the issues DRK had as OT, with TP drain being a massive issue, have somewhat been handled, as Blood Weapon reduces TP costs. Still not perfect, or even comparable to WAR, but at least DRK is getting tweaked. PLD, on the other hand... Nope. It is currently the lowest DPS, and probably the squishiest tank in Savage right now, barring A2S, due to the large amount of Physical damage there. And even then, it lacks any real AoE abilities, putting a lot more on the backs of the DPS is the party. Paladin is in a really, really bad place right now. Even as a Warrior Main, I can see that my co-Paladins are suffering. People are pushing Paladin mains to switch Jobs, because a PLD just can't cut it. If this was a DPS class being excluded from content, there would be, and has been, forum-wide riots. But everyone keeps saying "Paladin is okay, because reasons!" Those reasons, however, are no longer valid in a high DPS, high magical damage raid environment. There is no reason to bring a Paladin. None. Anything a Paladin can do is completely outclassed by Dark Knight. And because of this, MNK is suffering too. Why bring a MNK for Dragon Kick, when Delirium is just as good? If you were running PLD/WAR, you'd bring a MNK, but DRK/WAR has no reason for one, and you can, and should replace it with DRG or NIN, for the increased utility they bring.

I've swapped from warrior to Palladian, does that count?

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I've swapped from warrior to Palladian, does that count?

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Is Palladian better than paladin? Must be game breaking to be stronger than warrior.

Been PLD since 2.0 beta just because I was new to the game, played on PS3 at the time, and needed something simple to play since being new to the game. Did try all other jobs in beta but just liked the simplicity of the job yet loved tanking as well.

2.0 to 3.0 it was my main but dabbled a bit with BRD and finally NIN. Once 3.0 hit I was set on trying DRK and loved it (despite it's flaws) and made it my main over PLD. Even at 60 PLD just got boring for me even though I did most content up to A1S with it. Now leveling WAR and loving it as well. I intend to keep all 3 tanks skilled and geared, but my distaste of PLD will put it at the bottom of the priority list. Even if the next set of raid tier puts PLD as the most wanted tank again, I don't think I will make it my main unless it gets something more "unique" and a little less boring...

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Just a note since you're new, the devs aren't omnipotent beings who are always right. 2.0 WARs were considered the worse tank by far due to lack of mitigation and pretty terrible self-healing. Guess what the devs openly told those who played WAR back then?

"Git gud"

Many patches after the first complaints started, WARs got a buff to improve their mitigation (biggest change to inner beast) which made them viable again.

If the dev team hasn't had a history of being unable to spot balance issues pre-release, nobody would be complaining about the state of different jobs whenever something is released.

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Even before Warrior got the big buff though it had started becomeing the wanted dungeon tank for it's superioirty with huge groups of monsters.The problem was they tried to make warrior on par with paladin for raid bosses without considering the blatant huge advantage it had over more than single target enemies.

Basically Warrior was already overpowered before Heavensward and Paladin was falling off.

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Originally Posted by Viviza

This won't help SE even slightly. Worse, it will paint an unrealistic projection of what people actually care about. A thread on the forums is obviously going to be bandwagoned by people who agree with the premise of the post.

SE can pull the real numbers whenever they want. Which jobs are people using? Which jobs are clearing turns of Alex? These are what matters.

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Well, it isn't a loaded question, it states its intent flat out without trying to hide it. So the dev team will be well aware of context.

The number of people playing a class is not necessarily be a good metric for class balance.

In this case it is relatively poor because many players are locked into their time sank into grinding XP or more importantly the weekly Esoteric lockout, whilst this doesn't physically stop you changing class, it creates a big barrier to PLDs that would have jumped ship ages ago if it wouldn't put them over a month of lockouts behind.

I don't think I have said this enough yet, so I would really advise any dev reading any of these threads to please make the first set of gear next expansion ROLE locked not JOB locked, because when you throw new abilities, jobs and stat weights into the mix, it will always end up bad for some, and you need to give people the room to move around until you get it properly balanced. Which never really works on the first attempt.

I haven't changed for exactly that reason, I have sank about 2 weeks of resets into PLD because my static wont have any other way, and I will continue to do Alex S 1-3 on PLD where it can actually clear.

If it wasn't for Eso tome baggage weighing me down I would probably have been doing DRK for a month now, heck maybe I could be doing some yolo double WAR.

I wouldn't have thought twice about PLD though, the numbers just don't add up. Damage is poorly tuned lower than it should be to compensate even a superior mitigation set, but sadly both mitigation and utility have really fallen short of what they need to be to make up for the penalty.

Obligatory: Your most valid point - What tanks are clearing AS4, and what tanks will be clearing AS4 for the immediate future? Given that the world first group had a PLD main is it a skill issue?

(Also: I never like playing a class where one of the fundamental design aspects of the class is a weakness. PLD is the only class the devs have *ever* said is supposed to be bad at something by design. They got their wish.)

Edit: Merged from below - Your statistical arguments are flawed, long live Baye's theorem.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Even before Warrior got the big buff though it had started becomeing the wanted dungeon tank for it's superioirty with huge groups of monsters.The problem was they tried to make warrior on par with paladin for raid bosses without considering the blatant huge advantage it had over more than single target enemies.

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This game isn't balanced around trash pulls.
If it was, DRK would be considered the best tank in the game, as its MP pool scales directly with how many hits it's taking.
Trash pulls aren't difficult content, and don't require detailed balancing to make all of the classes viable in them.

Raid bosses on the other hand, are difficult content, and having the 3 tanks perform very differently outside of raid bosses is perfectly fine as long as they can all compete in raid content.

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Originally Posted by Misha_Tameshigiri

This game isn't balanced around trash pulls.
If it was, DRK would be considered the best tank in the game, as its MP pool scales directly with how many hits it's taking.
Trash pulls aren't difficult content, and don't require detailed balancing to make all of the classes viable in them.

Raid bosses on the other hand, are difficult content, and having the 3 tanks perform very differently outside of raid bosses is perfectly fine as long as they can all compete in raid content.

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Warrior craps over dark any day of the week in terms of Aoe.OoH your dark can gain back mana.great for you.Warrior puts out more aoe dps and regens much more hp then Dark in big groups.Also we don't need mana.And since Dark didn't even exist pre - Heavensward i don't see your argument .I was purely stating there was an issue with Paladin versus the only other tank before heavensward even released.

PLD main all through out ARR with zeta relic. went over to WAR because there were a high demand for them in Alexander savage on my server. I plan on doing the 3.1 relic on my PLD though.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Basically Warrior was already overpowered before Heavensward and Paladin was falling off.

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ah... this comment made me.. nice to see someone beat T1 with WAR in 2.0... no?
:D

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Originally Posted by Lazka

ah... this comment made me.. nice to see someone beat T1 with WAR in 2.0... no?
:D

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Between the fact I partied with a 2.0 WAR through clears of T1-T4 and started progressing T5 and the fact his comment was about 2.1 on, I fail to see your point.

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

Between the fact I partied with a 2.0 WAR through clears of T1-T4 and started progressing T5 and the fact his comment was about 2.1 on, I fail to see your point.

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no, what i mean is.. he say war overpowered PLD from pre heavensward and so so...
and this make me say.. if WAR is what he say... why i never see any WAR be a MT in T1 till T13? yes war its capable to MT, but still.. its bit a hard to keep up war to MT than PLD... so war is just good for AoE? (and this will make an argue which best in term of aoe with DRK later)
and in term of OT... some ppl make a point that PLD in sword oath is better than WAR in OT.. (i not sure bout this.. but some ppl in this forum say this)
so my question is.. what is WAR better than PLD in pre-heavensward? which why i argue what he post before..

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Originally Posted by Lazka

ah... this comment made me.. nice to see someone beat T1 with WAR in 2.0... no?
:D

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It was done many times.it was harder but Warrior was always designed to be a more complex tank.Sure one of one of the earliest t5 kills had a warrior in it.Warrior was viable in coil before the big buff.It was done several times.I doubt i'll ever be as good as some of those warriors that got through that back then.But you gotta remember that coil and Alex Savage wasn't designed for all players.Just the higher skilled ones.And there lies the issue.I'm sure all 3 tanks are completly viable for Savage.But a lot of us players aren't.

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Originally Posted by Lazka

no, what i mean is.. he say war overpowered PLD from pre heavensward and so so...
and this make me say.. if WAR is what he say... why i never see any WAR be a MT in T1 till T13? yes war its capable to MT, but still.. its bit a hard to keep up war to MT than PLD... so war is just good for AoE? (and this will make an argue which best in term of aoe with DRK later)
and in term of OT... some ppl make a point that PLD in sword oath is better than WAR in OT.. (i not sure bout this.. but some ppl in this forum say this)
so my question is.. what is WAR better than PLD in pre-heavensward? which why i argue what he post before..

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Some of the coils were the exception.And i know this.but overall Warrior had the bigger advantage back then.Paladin was only wanted due to some coil mechanics.Other than that it was prefered to have warrior .

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Warrior craps over dark any day of the week in terms of Aoe.OoH your dark can gain back mana.great for you.Warrior puts out more aoe dps and regens much more hp then Dark in big groups.Also we don't need mana.And since Dark didn't even exist pre - Heavensward i don't see your argument .I was purely stating there was an issue with Paladin versus the only other tank before heavensward even released.

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Where are your numbers?
Your only decent AOE is locked behind wrath/abandon stacks which take 20 seconds to get back.
>inb4 infuriate
Wow, that time is now an average 17 seconds per 5 stacks. Amazing DPS boost.
DRK has 2 OGCD AOEs and 2 GCD AOEs, of which 3 cost mana. If a DRK has an unlimited MP pool, as he will during large trash pulls, it's very easy to out-AOE DPS any WAR.

I have been debating to myself if I should keep maining PLD or just go over to DRK. After reading through all these threads on PLD it has been bumming me out a bit. However gear has been a problem, PLD has the eso gear atm so I can't just jump ship to DRK yet without it affecting the stuff I do with my FC. Is PLD a simple job which might be boring? For me that is a yes, and really the reason I stuck with it, I like simple. With DRK there is some mirco managing with mp but when tanking I feel like it flows better somewhat compare to PLD. It had been mention before but PLD enmity issue I felt it, when DRKing I do not feel it at all, I have time to get mp back and even do some other combo. I am really on the fence on going to DRK, if it comes to it, I could just start getting the eso accessories that all tanks can wear, without affecting PLD gear too much, on the chance I keep PLD as main. I would feel better on this if the developer mention anything on this, whether they agree everything is working as intended or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

But you gotta remember that coil and Alex Savage wasn't designed for all players.Just the higher skilled ones.And there lies the issue.I'm sure all 3 tanks are completly viable for Savage.But a lot of us players aren't.

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and this make me question more.. bcause alex savage or coil designed for ppl with high skill... and im sure.. they not complain about the job, but the mechanic in alex savage make some tank inferior...
so the valid answer for that is... change the current job? cause new raid is not properly designed for some tank? (aka heavy magic buster for compensate DRK being magic tank)
and if SE introduce some brand new mech in new raid.. then change the job again? really?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Some of the coils were the exception.And i know this.but overall Warrior had the bigger advantage back then.Paladin was only wanted due to some coil mechanics.Other than that it was prefered to have warrior .

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i dont know if WAR so prefered in coil before... but in my server... never ever... WAR will be prefered with MT.. and ofc double WAR... just bcause they have advantage in term of AoE...
and all ppl just reserve 1 spot for PLD for sure...
nah.. dont think im too negative about WAR... i main WAR too in pre-HW..
and to say WAR OP in all term than PLD... is bit wrong... sure WAR good in AoE.. but just that? no have utility for party? lack of good mitigation?