Harsher Leaver Punishments

Not sure why so many people join dungeons simply to leave 1 sec in, but I see it way too much, and have been seeing it since 2.0. There really needs to be harsher punishments for consecutive dungeon abandonment.

Something I was thinking is to give characters an invisible "Leaver Counter" (or something like that) which increases each time you leave a dungeon before it is completed. And the more "stacks" you have, the harsher the punishments become. Starting at 30 minutes, as it is now, and just increases the more "stacks" you have from leaving. And because people could simply do nothing or "disconnect" and wait to be kicked so they don't get punished for it, being kicked could always give half a "stack", 0.5 instead of 1, but not give an instant punishment unless they have a certain amount of "stacks". And the "counter" would only go down while you are logged in, and at a SUPER slow rate, and get entirely wiped each week.

No thanks.

If a group is not fun because of how bad it is I think 30 minutes is an acceptable penalty for that.

So you want to have more people force disconnects instead?

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

No thanks.

If a group is not fun because of how bad it is I think 30 minutes is an acceptable penalty for that.

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People leaving as soon as they enter a dungeon, have no clue how good or bad the party is yet. They just hate the dungeon they were given in the Roulette.

Simple fix. Enter Roulette, you are stuck with that dungeon and will only ever get that dungeon on future Roulettes, until you complete it.

For people wanting to leave because of a perceived bad group, whether or not they are correct, they are going to leave or simply DC. Not much that can be done without opening up something else that can be abused.

Let them just lose the bonus if they leave within the first 10 minutes of the dungeon - if they dont like the roulette, give them no reason to do it. 10 minutes is a fair amount of giving even a "bad" group a chance - and if they dont like the dungeon 10 minutes will enough to progress enough so leaving will become less attractive.

Just giving them the same dungeon over and over wont solve the problem... I recall the days where people would leave brayflox HM because they wanted to run it with a blm only...

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Let them just lose the bonus if they leave within the first 10 minutes of the dungeon - if they dont like the roulette, give them no reason to do it. 10 minutes is a fair amount of giving even a "bad" group a chance - and if they dont like the dungeon 10 minutes will enough to progress enough so leaving will become less attractive.

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That would actually be a decent change. I really just want SOMETHING more than a 30 minute "You can't use the Duty Finder" cooldown because it obviously doesn't work. And ya, I remember back in 2.0 when people would leave when Cutter's Cry was the dungeon. People do it for anything. If I only say it maybe once a week, I wouldn't care as much. But seeing it almost once a day, sometimes 2 or more if I am dungeon running that day, is just getting stupid. And it is almost always either the tank or healer. Insta-queuing and insta-leaving.

I like Vidu's idea best.

Ten menutes is the time it takes to initiate a vote abandon so when the Vote abandon timer is up they could leave and just eat the 30m penalty while getting anouther shot at tge bonus but nix their bonus if they're just like "Up, Darkhold, I'm out". and leave before even the 1st pull.

But vote dismissing a player shouldn't penalize the dismissie, the vote dismiss is already abused bad enough as is.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Just giving them the same dungeon over and over wont solve the problem... I recall the days where people would leave brayflox HM because they wanted to run it with a blm only...

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There is a little difference. BF HM they WANTED to run the dungeon, but ONLY as fast as possible to get as many speed runs as possible in. Gotta get them tomes. They queue up for BF HM specifically.

People that leave immediately, are purely now leaving because of the dungeon they got via roulette, regardless of who else is in the party, rather class, job, level, ilvl, or anything else.

I don't really think more needs to be done it would just make things worse because people don't want to be there so they will be a pain for however long they are forced to be in there. Better to just let people leave and eat a 30 minute penalty. You still get the obnoxious idiots who fake a DC to try to get kicked and there isn't much you can do without also punishing people who legit DC when it';s not their fault.

it does need harder punishment
but like Vidu said
it is a good idea rather than increasing the DF ban time
if anyone dont like certain dungeon,
then dont do daily roulette
please dont waste other ppl time hoping and waiting for someone Join in progress or re-queue
anyone who leave before the abandon timer should be punish harder

60 Tank left at start of dungeon today because Cutter's Cry popped up as low level roulette.
Honestly if you hate low level dungeon just skip the roulette 5 esos is not a make or break. Just run an alex normal and solve the problem faster. lol

I agree that people who leave the roulette should lose the bonus. They choose to do it, so they must deal with the consequences of not obligating.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

it does need harder punishment
but like Vidu said
it is a good idea rather than increasing the DF ban time
if anyone dont like certain dungeon,
then dont do daily roulette
please dont waste other ppl time hoping and waiting for someone Join in progress or re-queue
anyone who leave before the abandon timer should be punish harder

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Your post formatting gave me cancer.

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Originally Posted by Renault

Your post formatting gave me cancer.

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The stupidity and irelevence of this comment drove to commite Moggicide.

So everyone Thank Renault for why you can't compleat the MSQ because of the dead moogles.

30 minutes is fine as a punishment. If someone really doesn't want to be there, I'd rather they just leave and give the party a chance to replace them than have them stay and be cranky about it. Most dungeons can be three-manned anyway (did a third of Sohm Al including the second boss with just 2 DRGs and a SCH the other day), and trials definitely won't suffer if you're down one person regardless of their role.

This topic comes up over and over again. No, the 30 minute punishment is fine as it is.

If anything it should simply strip you of your bonus for that day if you leave within the first 15-20 minutes of the run. That would be punishment enough because anybody who drops it instantly is probably only there for the bonus.

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Originally Posted by Kemosobe

Not sure why so many people join dungeons simply to leave 1 sec in, but I see it way too much, and have been seeing it since 2.0. There really needs to be harsher punishments for consecutive dungeon abandonment.

Something I was thinking is to give characters an invisible "Leaver Counter" (or something like that) which increases each time you leave a dungeon before it is completed. And the more "stacks" you have, the harsher the punishments become. Starting at 30 minutes, as it is now, and just increases the more "stacks" you have from leaving. And because people could simply do nothing or "disconnect" and wait to be kicked so they don't get punished for it, being kicked could always give half a "stack", 0.5 instead of 1, but not give an instant punishment unless they have a certain amount of "stacks". And the "counter" would only go down while you are logged in, and at a SUPER slow rate, and get entirely wiped each week.

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Nope. No thank you. 30 minutes is plenty.

I think the punishment for leaving before an instance is done is a ban on the leavers account for a month. I think that'll show em.

Removing bonus if they leave within ~10 minutes sounds fair. I've started leveling DPS classes via roulette.. most of the time I get in with in progress (yay, faster queues!), and I'm always surprised to see what people drop from without giving it a chance.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Let them just lose the bonus if they leave within the first 10 minutes of the dungeon - if they dont like the roulette, give them no reason to do it. 10 minutes is a fair amount of giving even a "bad" group a chance - and if they dont like the dungeon 10 minutes will enough to progress enough so leaving will become less attractive.

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then they will go afk at the entrance, wait 10 minutes and leave.

the punishments need to be harsher but the rewards need to be greater too.
If you're doing roulette and you leave by anything other than the exit, you forfeit that daily bonus, this includes "DC's" and vote kicks.

But then things like player comms should come with extra rewards like 5-10 eso tomes per comm, but only from roulette daily bonus runs.

encourage good behavior but really punish the bad.

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Originally Posted by Yukariko

the punishments need to be harsher but the rewards need to be greater too.
If you're doing roulette and you leave by anything other than the exit, you forfeit that daily bonus,[I] this includes "DC's" and vote kicks.[I/]

But then things like player comms should come with extra rewards like 5-10 eso tomes per comm, but only from roulette daily bonus runs.

encourage good behavior but really punish the bad.

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That italixed part is the stupid part. I can get behind everything but that part. You noobs know Vote Kicking is abused and ISP connections suck for alot of people.

My own experience shows that vote kick abuse is rather rare. IMO, a report about that abuse would be enough, depending upon the time, to not only get the abusers punished somehow, but also to get your DR bonus potential restored for the day. Obviously not exactly something that's likely to happen at, say, 10 minutes before the DR reset, but you can't have everything.

As for bad Internet connections .. there's nothing you can do about that. These days, legitimate Internet hiccups fall under the heading of "Act of God" and there's nothing you can do. Even dial-up connections are reliable enough that you are not going to disconnect every half hour or whatever. Actual, legitimate "my ISP dropped me" Disconnects are rare compared to the number of disconnects people force in order to avoid something. They do happen .. but they are nowhere near as common as some would prefer people believe they happen.

Anecdotally, I've lost my Internet connection more often due to power outages (which are rare) killing my router and modem than I have due to actual problems with the Internet. And I'm talking less than five power outages per year during my playtime (mainly due to afternoon popup storms, gotta love Florida weather).

So .. no, I can't agree that bad internet connections are something to hide behind nowadays.

Sorry, going to have to disagree.

I went into T5 for fun not long ago and wound up with an entire party that hadn't even watched a video. My off-tank kept running away when I tried to soak fireball with him. After a half hour of wiping, I voted abandon.

It was vetoed every time. I wanted to go into something else after leaving, but was forced to stay unless I wanted the penalty.

The system you propose would make situations which you simply couldn't win.

I DC spontaniously with a combenation of the old com lines (My router and modem are moddern but the lines to the were put there 20 years ago and never repaired.)

And even then, That doesn't stop Aeather Data Server from craping out periodically.

Punish the wrong doers not everyone that leaves a duty.

If you punish people for no reason then the game dies and we'll have a 1.0 incedent all over again.

I dont see what the issue is. You can always get a replacement...

Unless you're one of the players who refuses to roll a tank.

I will sometimes end up in what my FC all refers to as "loading hell" where I'll be stuck on the black loading screen for some ridiculous length of time when I'm trying to load into an instance. When that happens, it's sometimes faster for me to just shut down the client and log back in than it is to sit and wait for it to load. It's completely unpredictable; I can load into a dungeon in five seconds or less and then thirty minutes later I get stuck in loading hell trying to get into the same dungeon.

So it's not always an ISP problem that leads to DCing-- my internet is always just fine when that happens and I'm usually on TS the entire time. I've also had enough cases of someone DCing and coming back a couple of minutes later to know that DCing in instances for legit reasons is hardly an uncommon thing.

Vote kick abuse is incredibly rare for me. Any time you initiate a kick, you get a 4 hour cooldown before you can start another one. I don't think people will be willing to waste a kick like that.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Vote kick abuse is incredibly rare for me. Any time you initiate a kick, you get a 4 hour cooldown before you can start another one. I don't think people will be willing to waste a kick like that.

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That would be common sence. Which is exactly why the opposite would happen.

Vote kick abuse is rare because it has quite little abuse potential. Add into it a punishment of some sort and the abuse potential increases.

About net quality, if you live in part of a world where it's not really an issue for you, good for you. I was in dungeon run and fc mate disconnected twice during it his comment, "Tahitian Internet" then again on same run both tank and the other dps disconnected once, both real ones. So punishing DC would just punish people who already have it bad. It would create additional minimum specification, you'd need to have spotless net connection, otherwise the game deals punishments and that would quit the subscriptions of those to whom it is a regular problem.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

That would be common sence. Which is exactly why the opposite would happen.

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Are you saying people are going to be kick happy despite the cooldown? Trolls want trolling to be easy. Ergo, they aren't really going to get their rocks off with one kick per four hours.

BTW. Sense.

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Originally Posted by Kemosobe

Not sure why so many people join dungeons simply to leave 1 sec in, but I see it way too much, and have been seeing it since 2.0. There really needs to be harsher punishments for consecutive dungeon abandonment.

Something I was thinking is to give characters an invisible "Leaver Counter" (or something like that) which increases each time you leave a dungeon before it is completed. And the more "stacks" you have, the harsher the punishments become. Starting at 30 minutes, as it is now, and just increases the more "stacks" you have from leaving. And because people could simply do nothing or "disconnect" and wait to be kicked so they don't get punished for it, being kicked could always give half a "stack", 0.5 instead of 1, but not give an instant punishment unless they have a certain amount of "stacks". And the "counter" would only go down while you are logged in, and at a SUPER slow rate, and get entirely wiped each week.

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I disagree because it would make my situation worse. As working person and parent of small children, I get a maximum of 3 hours of playing time after the kids bedtime.
Unfortunately, small children have a habit of not sleeping continously. And, this requires me to frequently abandon the game for 15 to 30 minutes. I graciously accept my 30 minute penalty (class is irrelevant, I play them all).
The other night, for example, I took 2 penalties, the first about 1/2 way through and the second right at the start; I mean literally, the DF popped I loaded in and the baby monitor trigger my need to leave 30 seconds later.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Let them just lose the bonus if they leave within the first 10 minutes of the dungeon - if they dont like the roulette, give them no reason to do it. 10 minutes is a fair amount of giving even a "bad" group a chance - and if they dont like the dungeon 10 minutes will enough to progress enough so leaving will become less attractive.

Just giving them the same dungeon over and over wont solve the problem... I recall the days where people would leave brayflox HM because they wanted to run it with a blm only...

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Your suggestion, would make progression to much more difficult for players with RL restrictions on playing time. We, the players with RL limitation, need those roulette bonuses.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

I think the punishment for leaving before an instance is done is a ban on the leavers account for a month. I think that'll show em.

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Your suggestion is almost as must troll, as the players OP is complaining about.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

Your suggestion, would make progression to much more difficult for players with RL restrictions on playing time. We, the players with RL limitation, need those roulette bonuses.

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Well, thanks for suggesting I dont have a real life because I dont have the time nor patience to wait for my roulette or dungeons (yes, people are queining for dungeons only aswell) over and over again because someone is bailing just because he didnt got the easy, fast dungeon he wanted...

Dont get me wrong - I do understand you concern and in some way your reasoning. But, wuite frankly speaking: You dont need the exp-bonus... we got that bonus later to make ranking up easier (yes, there were times without the bonus and we managed to level our classes!). You're saying yourself that you're playing all classes - but you're telling me that you can only do your roulette by bailying? I do understand that rl is more important - but that goes for everyones rl... this isnt excatly aimed against players like you who cant play because of rl-reasons but to make people think twice before leaving right within the second they're seeing CC...

I think some people are missing the issue of why players leaving is such a big issue.And it's not because it's wasting the time of other players doing roulette etc.It's the fact that roulette itself was designed to help newer players get through old content that doesn't get as frequent visitors.Hence the bonus from it.It rewards players a lot of the time for helping newer players complete content.Now i do understand some frustration that players get sick of seeing dungeons like AV,DD and Brayflox which are long enough dungeons.But that influx is due to players leveling mech,ast and dark as they start at lvl 30 and a lot of players leveling them to 50 through dungeons as it's faster than fateing generally.

The harsher penalty needs to be there though because roulette is not you keep leaving until you get the easy dungeon you want.Doing that is countering SE's way of helping new players deal with the lack of players going through low level content.I'm sure nobody wants to see new players stuck at certain dungeons for weeks to progress in story.

The penalty to me is just fine. I wouldn't want to be punished harshly just because I get disconnected or kicked/leaving. I hardly ever get kicked which I'm happy for. I've only been kicked twice now and it was a due to a disconnect which I wasn't able to get back in fast enough. I always get legit disconnects (it can disconnect without warning) and have never seen anyone "fake" one. I sure can't tell if they are "faking" it anyway. And really I haven't had to deal with the 30min penalty yet. I've only left a dungeon a few times. Once because I wasn't fully confident in healing the dungeon yet and the other was just last night before maintenance.

So yeah penalty is just fine.

I know players having bad internet or bad pc can be an issue to make them dc.BTW fake disconnects are generally obvious.You'll generally see someone convienantly disconnect right after a party fail on Alex turn.
The dungeon lock was a good idea in theory but there is one flaw to it.If nobody wants to do that dungeon at next time you are useing roulette you'd be stuck there for a very very long time.A better situation would be to set the last dungeon you left as highest priority for your character in Queue.This means that while you'd be forced priority into the dungeon / trial you left next time you Queue if none of those were wanted at the time you'd be sent to whatever is needed.
Keep in mind that the one you bailed was probably a more popular needed one in the first place this won't let you off the hook but at the same time won't keep you locked out of entering a roulette.

Just to clarify incase there is confusion.If one player queues up for the trial dungeon you left you are placed in that queue and only that one until either it's filled or the people Queuing leave the Queue.Only then can you be placed among the rest of the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

... wuite frankly speaking: You dont need the exp-bonus...

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You are right, no one needs the roulette bonuses but it definitely is a useful aid in keeping up with progression.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

this isnt excatly aimed against players like you who cant play because of rl-reasons but to make people think twice before leaving right within the second they're seeing CC..

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The problem is how do you separate church and state. You cannot enact these increased penalties on the target players without broadsiding a player like myself.

If people have no intention of running the dungeon, then a longer lock out shouldn't bother them.

Took 2.5 hours and 3 queues to finally get a group for leveling roulette tonight because tanks and healers kept leaving 5 seconds into the dungeon.