Your reaction if next expansion introduces 2 new abilities and 3 traits

Instead of 5 new abilities. I feel like this will solve the problem of too many skills that so many complain about, and as long as the traits aren't generic and actually manage to change up gameplay, they might as well function like new abilities. Example for monk incoming:

Example, for monk: Flying Sidekick--deals damage to target and enemies near it with 140 potency and rushes to that position. 40 second cooldown. Must be 5 yalms away and within 20 yalms.

Fists of Lightning--increases TP cost of abilities by 40% and increases damage dealt by 20%. (Technically 15% since it is not available with fists of fire.)

Hidden Fist--upon utilizing tornado kick, there is a 50% chance the next touch of death will cost no TP and deal all of its damage in the initial hit and still place the DoT (thundercloud proc).

Focus--once greased Lightning three has been achieved, every Attack in Couerl form has a 50% chance to grant a stack of chakra.

Greased Lightning IV--while under fists of lightning, the monk can reach Greased Lightning IV. Greased Lightning IV timer is 10 seconds, not 14. Tornado kick at IV stacks guarantees Hidden Fist will proc.

5 traits for the HW skills and one skill at 70 pls

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Originally Posted by Altijacek

Instead of 5 new abilities. I feel like this will solve the problem of too many skills that so many complain about, and as long as the traits aren't generic and actually manage to change up gameplay, they might as well function like new abilities. Example for monk incoming:

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Not adding further to a problem doesn't solve the existing problem. It just doesn't add to it. The bloat that is there will still be there. But yes, adding traits to existing abilities would be nicer.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Not adding further to a problem doesn't solve the existing problem. It just doesn't add to it. The bloat that is there will still be there.

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My god lol, yeah the problem exists but there are two sides to this so called problem. To some, having tons of abilities IS fun, myself included. To you, it's bloat and detrimental. What I suggest is a compromise that should appeal to people of both mindsets, which is what the developer of a product should go for IMO.

Well Ninja really only got 3 new abilities that are used for casual content (I sometimes use Shadewalker if the tank is undergeared, but that's pretty rare) and I still feel like I don't want any new abilities. I'd rather they all be interesting traits, or remove/merge some existing abilities and then add some more.

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Originally Posted by Altijacek

My god lol, yeah the problem exists but there are two sides to this so called problem. To some, having tons of abilities IS fun, myself included. To you, it's bloat and detrimental. What I suggest is a compromise that should appeal to people of both mindsets, which is what the developer of a product should go for IMO.

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Was the "my god" necessary? you said it would "fix" the problem, I simply pointed out that it would not. Also regardless if having tons of abilities is fun, it is still bloat.


Furthermore please try to not assume things. I never called it detrimental.

They should still give us new abilities but just get rid of or replace others that are not useful. Eventually we will get to a point when everything is useful and no more can be added without making "other" changes but for now there is still room I feel.

I would be pretty happy with 0 new abilities and 5 traits, or even some kind of brand new progression system that isn't abilities/traits.

My WAR and SCH's bars are jammed to the max with abilities and I don't even want to talk about PVP. And this is coming from a KBM player, I can't even imagine the nightmare that controller players have to deal with. It is really dangerous to add tons of new abilities for every class every expansion (see: WoW, which progressively added more and more abilities each xpac only to eventually start cutting them back out)

Not to mention that some classes already have a significant amount of button bloat going on (DRK) and they would do well to pare down some abilities before giving us new ones.

Ehh, I'm fine either way. I still have 4 slots open on my standard 3 hot bars and could probably clear another spot if needed. That being said, I wouldn't mind another trait or two. As WHM, I'd love another enhancement to Shroud of Saints at least.

I'd need more keybinds.

Dragoons currently use over 30 of them at level cap. Yoshida pls show mercy. ;_;

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Originally Posted by Daralii

I'd need more keybinds.

Dragoons currently use over 30 of them at level cap. Yoshida pls show mercy. ;_;

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30? Is that total abilities or usable abilities? I use a control and i only limit myself to two hotbars (quick r1 swaps) for every class.And on drg i use all 16 and that with putting in mount/sprint.
Some things arent really needed, fient, keen flurry etc. Removing things you wont use 95% of the time helps greatly

The less abilities the better. Would much prefer traits, refining old abilities is much more needed than cluttering our hotbars with new ones.

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

30? Is that total abilities or usable abilities? I use a control and i only limit myself to two hotbars (quick r1 swaps) for every class.And on drg i use all 16 and that with putting in mount/sprint.
Some things arent really needed, fient, keen flurry etc. Removing things you wont use 95% of the time helps greatly

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32 total, 23 for single target, not counting LB and potions. Doom spike, ring of thorns, defensive stuff, and sprint make up the rest.

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Originally Posted by Altijacek

Your reaction if next expansion introduces 2 new abilities and 3 traits

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http://i.imgur.com/W26J5lL.png

i will like it more than getting useless skills that u will never use, ex: Wardens paean.

however i hope they dont use traits as way to give QOL changes that need to be baseline

As a monk, I have 3 action bars filled, and still have some abilities that I didn't even bother putting on - like haymaker, or abilties that I removed and gave alternate bindings like stances. Even then, I am using every single slot on those 3 bars and getting more abilities would be a huge pain.

Id prefer no "traits", one or two abilities. and instead add a new mechanic to customize your abilities so each player could be unique. Like how you bind materia to gear, come up with additional special materia like items that you can bind directly to abilities. reduce cooldowns, increase potency, additional time on dots/hots/buffs/debuffs, life steal, add debuffs to hits, mp/tp steal, increased range, remove an ability from the GCD but add a cd, make it so a specific ability wont break combo chains. theres all kinds of cool things. and you could instead of unlocking new abilities/traits, unlock slots that you can equip an ability materia in. so youd get your first slot at 62, an ability at 65, another slot at 68, and an ability and a slot at 70.

what I hate is having to check my action bars to see if any cooldowns came up
an entire hotbar of cooldowns and im not even 60

The problem with traits is it won't change how a job plays. And that's just not going to cut it for an expansion. It needs to be enough of achange that players will feel new. Adding skills gives new experience, but also bloat. It's a fine line.

I definitely want more traits, I think traits are awesome. At this point we have enough weaponskills/abilities to worry about anyway, it'd be better to upgrade the old ones with traits to make them more flexible and powerful.

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Originally Posted by SpecialKK

The problem with traits is it won't change how a job plays. And that's just not going to cut it for an expansion. It needs to be enough of achange that players will feel new. Adding skills gives new experience, but also bloat. It's a fine line.

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The easiest way to solve both of these is to make a majority of the new abilities superior replacements to old ones in a rotation. still getting new things, still can have a few fully new goodies. of course then theres the problem of still needing the old low level abilities on hotbar for when you get level synched...

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Originally Posted by SpecialKK

The problem with traits is it won't change how a job plays. And that's just not going to cut it for an expansion. It needs to be enough of achange that players will feel new. Adding skills gives new experience, but also bloat. It's a fine line.

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If the traits provide a change to gameplay, then it'd be perfectly fine. Most obvious case would be something like Greased Lightning IV, or procs for other classes. Maybe Astro's can get something that allows them to use two cards at once, or some such thing. Black Mages can get Astral Fire IV, dragoons can get wheeling thrust to reset cooldown on Dragonfire Dive with a 50% chance while claw and fang resets elusive jump with 100% chance.

Maybe Bard's can make it so that straight shot procs remove cast times from next two skills, white Mages can make it so that divine seal now increases range of cure 3 or some such thing, a lot of traits can cause dramatic changes that add a fun boost to gameplay, so I think two abilities and 3 traits will help prevent too many abiltites from taking up space (imagine getting another 5) and the traits will still provide enough changes in gameplay that things remain fresh.

They would need to revamp macros..

Hey, leave archers out of this! I like Straight Shot just the way it is! As for the original point...

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Originally Posted by Duelle

http://i.imgur.com/W26J5lL.png

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I'd be okay with it... if it replaced some lower level abilities. Otherwise im gonna have to find a way to put more buttons on my controller.....

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Originally Posted by Altijacek

If the traits provide a change to gameplay, then it'd be perfectly fine. Most obvious case would be something like Greased Lightning IV, or procs for other classes. Maybe Astro's can get something that allows them to use two cards at once, or some such thing. Black Mages can get Astral Fire IV, dragoons can get wheeling thrust to reset cooldown on Dragonfire Dive with a 50% chance while claw and fang resets elusive jump with 100% chance.

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I don't think that's enough. That means were still doing the same rotations a year and a half later. People will get bored of doing the same things with the same job.

Haging new skills replace old ones is usually how other games do it, but that's a problem with this games level sync system

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Originally Posted by SpecialKK

I don't think that's enough. That means were still doing the same rotations a year and a half later. People will get bored of doing the same things with the same job.

Haging new skills replace old ones is usually how other games do it, but that's a problem with this games level sync system

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If the traits modify older less used skills into newer and more powerful ones that would probably fix most of the issues because once you get synced and lose the trait temporarily all the skills would just revert to the pre-trait version without needing to modify hotbars.

You wouldn't lose any hotbar space you'd just be "switching" the old skills for the new ones without doing anything when synced.

Only downside is you'd then have a >60 rotation and a 60< rotation with little to no cross over and nearly all the skills being replaced at some point.

While I would love traits in the next expansion, I would also prefer they implement a new weapon skill to be introduced into the usual 123 rotation that offers the same potency or less potency for an added effect. For example,

Butcher's Block = 280 potency can be replaced by Deep Cut = 200 potency + Bleed (20 potency for 12 seconds)

Both deal 280 potency but offer different ways of dealing said damage. However, if they do implement traits (which I hope they do) in 4.0 Warriors need the trait "Rage" - able to hold two stacks of Infuriate.

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Originally Posted by PotatoWafflez

If the traits modify older less used skills into newer and more powerful ones that would probably fix most of the issues because once you get synced and lose the trait temporarily all the skills would just revert to the pre-trait version without needing to modify hotbars.

You wouldn't lose any hotbar space you'd just be "switching" the old skills for the new ones without doing anything when synced.

Only downside is you'd then have a >60 rotation and a 60< rotation with little to no cross over and nearly all the skills being replaced at some point.

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SE really needs to figure out something, as the level sync stuffs limit some design choices moving forward

A macro system that isn't intentionally awful would go a long way. If I could put heals and dots on the same keys and actually have it be responsive I could play scholar again.

I've always liked traits. They make me feel cool for being the class that I am, rather than using the same ability crossed onto another class.

What I personally would like to see is some restructuring of the entire movepool all around. Put in less abilities learned 1-50. Fluff them up with some more traits and give the level 60 cap an extra cross class ability. It's a mighty task to re-balance everything from the ground up, but when an MMO mouse lacks enough buttons to play, you know you have an issue. I use a g600, which has 20 buttons and I'm still using about 9 keybinds from my keyboard. I manage to make this fluid enough but I don't know how much further I can push that. I've already had to eat into my QoL hotbars just to fit everything now.

I like the idea of giving classes more stuff to do, making them more technical and more powerful feeling, that is complacent with the feeling of growth. But if they continue on in the trend they have now, it's simply too much. And really, the only solution I see to that in the long run is condensing the total amount learned, which would require restructuring and rebalancing absolutely everything. That's a lot of work! So it's probably not something that'd happen soon.

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Originally Posted by SpecialKK

I don't think that's enough. That means were still doing the same rotations a year and a half later. People will get bored of doing the same things with the same job.

Haging new skills replace old ones is usually how other games do it, but that's a problem with this games level sync system

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Maybe I didn't say what I wanted to say correctly, but these traits would change gameplay enough that our rotations change with them. More decision making on the fly, and more choice in what to do depending on the enemy and party composition, etc.

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Originally Posted by SpecialKK

I don't think that's enough. That means were still doing the same rotations a year and a half later. People will get bored of doing the same things with the same job.

Having new skills replace old ones is usually how other games do it, but that's a problem with this games level sync system

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Perhaps a new Job tier unlock, with a different set of skills and traits? (aka, a new Job, but one that follows on the theme of the previous one, with skills that follow in kind, but work differently, and offer more depth/variation.)

e.g. Gladiator -> Paladin -> Paladin - Holy Templar.
Lancer -> Dragoon -> Dragoon - Azure Guard.

I guess new traits would be good as it'll help flesh out current and new abilities.
Whm could really use some as 2 of their special traits were taken away.
- graniteskin
- proshell

I say remove cross class skills and then I would be OK with 5 new abilities, something to make each job more unique.

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

I guess new traits would be good as it'll help flesh out current and new abilities.
Whm could really use some as 2 of their special traits were taken away.
- graniteskin
- proshell

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They were removed because they pretty much made having a white mage mandatory for difficult content, which is bad if you want to introduce new healers.

Traits are boring...gonna get crap like Heavy Thrust duration +5, or slight potency increase for Fracture. Having no new abilities is un-fun because there's no new animations and thus no toys...just gear...and higher stats...mehhh I want toys!

Honestly, I wouldn't mind five new abilities with an overhaul of what we consider "essential" for the Jobs. It's pretty bad when all three of one role (tank) struggle to fill their cross-class abilities with meaningful abilities. And, at least for melee, combos are clunky and waste space as well. And then there are oddities like Inner Beast/Fell Cleave or Blood Weapon/Price, both of which really should just be one ability a piece and change based on your stance. And then there abilities that are flat-out upgrades in everything but style like Abyssal Drain and Unleash. While I wouldn't want to live without most of these, there are ways to cut down on how much hotbar space is eaten up by abilities.

Edit: Another possibility would be to increase the complexity of certain abilities by combining them. For example, Souleater could easily eat up Dark Passenger (which is Souleater by another name), and just throw out the shadow magic when you use it under Dark Arts. Or Rockbreaker on a Monk also incorporates Howling Fist once you learn Howling Fist at lv46 as an auto-ability.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Traits are boring...gonna get crap like Heavy Thrust duration +5, or slight potency increase for Fracture. Having no new abilities is un-fun because there's no new animations and thus no toys...just gear...and higher stats...mehhh I want toys!

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The problem is that some jobs are so bloated that they're drowning in toys. I don't know how they could add another 5 next expansion without consolidating some things we have now.