2 new dungeons ?

Saint Mocianne Arboretum and Hardmode Pharos Sirius ?? this for 3.1 ?

It appears so. I knew the Arboretum was sketchy.

I was under the impression we were getting new dungeons and not hard modes of older dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Antanias

I was under the impression we were getting new dungeons and not hard modes of older dungeons.

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Seems like that's not the case, and with only two dungeons it's disappointing. Let's hope that the airship exploration is interesting enough to be a replacement for that missing dungeon (although the visuals being similar to Neverreap with all the floating islands already put me off).

Arboretum looks interesting though.

And you thought people ragequit Pharos before... Lol

I hope Neverreap and Fractal Continuum stay in Expert Roulette.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

And you thought people ragequit Pharos before... Lol

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Never knew anyone Rage Quit that easy dungeon before.. o.O

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Originally Posted by SasukeUchiha81

Never knew anyone Rage Quit that easy dungeon before.. o.O

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Well before it was nerfed, a lot of people found it hard >.>
No idea why though

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Originally Posted by SasukeUchiha81

Never knew anyone Rage Quit that easy dungeon before.. o.O

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Wiping on the first boss 5 times usually was the reason they would leave.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Seems like that's not the case, and with only two dungeons it's disappointing. Let's hope that the airship exploration is interesting enough to be a replacement for that missing dungeon (although the visuals being similar to Neverreap with all the floating islands already put me off).

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Is it this one?

"We’re planning to introduce new content where you explore uncharted islands with your crafted airships. Multiple parties can explore the same island at the same time. The concept will be to defeat lots of strong monsters. Gathering nodes are also available on these islands, so once the island is secured by the battle team, gatherers will be able to gather items to take back.

We wanted to give an old MMO-like feel for this one, and for FFXIV it'll be fresh content that hasn't been seen before."

If it is.. I would've preferred to get the third dungeon as my FC still doesn't have house, and no access to airship crafting. :(

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

Well before it was nerfed, a lot of people found it hard >.>
No idea why though

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Funnily enough, it had to do with overgearing it.
The way the first boss works is that he summons dogs at specific percentages of his HP, the gap between those spawn points gets shorter at lower HP levels for him.

And people don't like the concept of holding back on DPS. So you'd often get 2 extremely well geared DPS blasting the boss fast enough that you get overwhelmed by adds and the debuff they put out.
It was especially bad when one DPS thinks the other one can solo the adds and just kept blasting away, spawning more and more dogs, lol.

For Siren, people just couldn't figure out how not to get Charmed ...
I don't actually remember what they did change though, to make it so easy now. I was kinda sad when they did nerf it, as i really enjoyed it in its original form.

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Is it this one?

"We’re planning to introduce new content where you explore uncharted islands with your crafted airships. Multiple parties can explore the same island at the same time. The concept will be to defeat lots of strong monsters. Gathering nodes are also available on these islands, so once the island is secured by the battle team, gatherers will be able to gather items to take back.

We wanted to give an old MMO-like feel for this one, and for FFXIV it'll be fresh content that hasn't been seen before."

If it is.. I would've preferred to get the third dungeon as my FC still doesn't have house, and no access to airship crafting. :(

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They might allow us to participate in other FCs explorations, which would let those without an Airship of their own do the content.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Seems like that's not the case, and with only two dungeons it's disappointing. Let's hope that the airship exploration is interesting enough to be a replacement for that missing dungeon (although the visuals being similar to Neverreap with all the floating islands already put me off).
Arboretum looks interesting though.

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I believe the reason given for only adding two new dungeons from now on was so that they could put more development time into things other than just dungeons for content patches. 3.1 promises to add a lot: An entire new system to the Gold Saucer on par with TT and Chocobo racing, a substantial expansion to FC airships, and QoL additions for the housing system; all of which are no small feat. Hopefully, that trend continues moving forward.

That said, I'll admit that I was a little disappointed that one of the two new dungeons is a hard mode.

Pharos was the last really difficult dungeon this game had before it was nerfed. I'm actually hoping the hard mode will bring back memories for some.

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Originally Posted by Rahzel

I believe the reason given for only adding two new dungeons from now on was so that they could put more development time into things other than just dungeons for content patches. 3.1 promises to add a lot: An entire new system to the Gold Saucer on par with TT and Chocobo racing, a substantial expansion to FC airships, and QoL additions for the housing system; all of which are no small feat. Hopefully, that trend continues moving forward.

That said, I'll admit that I was a little disappointed that one of the two new dungeons is a hard mode.

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The thing is we got all that, without sacrificing dungeons in 2.x, didn't we? The marriage system, FC/Personal housing system (not just QoL changes) the entirety of the Gold Saucer (2 big games, minigames, the area, rewards). The only big thing we're getting otherwise that's different is the Airship changes, which is why I'm hoping it'll be somewhat decent.

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

If it is.. I would've preferred to get the third dungeon as my FC still doesn't have house, and no access to airship crafting. :(

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Yoshida said there will be an airship from Ishgard for players without housing. (Actually he said that it would be for players without an FC, coyly trying to avoid the issue that many FCs can't find houses.)

It leaves me wondering what advantage there will be to actually having the airship though, because they are a fair investment. I've blown through about 12 stacks of coke so far, and I'm just getting started.

Now, what was weird is that he said there would be super difficult monsters there, like level 80-90. Not sure how monsters of that level would work, since our accuracy would theoretically be nil.

As for Pharos Sirius, I actually like the idea of revisiting dungeons like we do. It's almost always a completely different experience, and we get to know how the location has changed overtime due to our previous actions. Halati was cleared of monsters and became a fighting arena again, the longstop got taken over by a rival faction of goblins, Haukke manor became the haunting ground of the voidsent that the previous owner had sacrificed herself to, etc.

I keep looking at Pharos Sirius from the outside, and I wonder if the lighthouse will actually be repaired in the story like they claim they are trying to do. Now we get to see the result of the repairs in a new dungeon. When you compare that to other mmos which have static story elements that never evolve (ie. hard mode is just the same exact group of cultists with the same boss and everything), I really like the direction choose in FFXIV.

To be honest, the Hard Modes of dungeons have always been different enough in layout and encounters for it not to bother me that they are reusing terrain assets. Its not like its the exact same dungeon just with harder hitting mobs.

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

Well before it was nerfed, a lot of people found it hard >.>
No idea why though

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People made it difficult by ignoring boss mechanics.
First boss spawned adds at fixed percentages of health. Kill adds and go back to boss, no problem... But most people insisted on just trying to burn boss.
Last boss was difficult because Siren wasn't silenced/stunned making it very hard on the healer for one specific move...

All in all, people found it hard because they wanted to burn everything instead of dealing with easy mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

The thing is we got all that, without sacrificing dungeons in 2.x, didn't we? The marriage system, FC/Personal housing system (not just QoL changes) the entirety of the Gold Saucer (2 big games, minigames, the area, rewards). The only big thing we're getting otherwise that's different is the Airship changes, which is why I'm hoping it'll be somewhat decent.

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The question we will never get an answer to, though, is how much of that was worked on during the 2.0 production phase. Was the Gold Saucer half finished when 2.0 launched and just needed more tweaking and testing? Was the marriage system ready to go once the last few bugs got ironed out? I think it's fair to say they had a bunch of things that were beyond the stage of being just a fancy idea on a napkin, but sooner or later they had to run out of those.

Pharos Sirius was nerfed so hard, they removed trash mobs for whatever reason. I don't remember anything threatening about the trash other than the Elementals and letting Banish III go off.

I don't remember ever wiping to the first boss pre-nerf/overgearing it. Overgearing the first boss seems to have done more harm than good.

I had the odd group that would wipe to Zu occasionally because they thought somehow killing all the eggs was a great idea, and Tyrant was always an lolboss. It was Siren that was mostly causing the issues with groups. Lunatic Voice going off made it more rough on the healer than it needed to be and I'm not sure if the debuff was dispellable pre-nerf. Her outgoing damage hurt a lot more if I remember right.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

The thing is we got all that, without sacrificing dungeons in 2.x, didn't we? The marriage system, FC/Personal housing system (not just QoL changes) the entirety of the Gold Saucer (2 big games, minigames, the area, rewards). The only big thing we're getting otherwise that's different is the Airship changes, which is why I'm hoping it'll be somewhat decent.

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The examples you presented though don't require the same amount of balance as dungeons do and battle content in general.

Golden Saucer, only real balance are MGP values
Triple Triad, opponent AI and point value of tourney
Marriage, no balance at all

Dungeons however have to be fine tuned and thus they require more effort in the quality assurance department then other content they have released. You might see it as "sacrificing" but honestly I see it as expanding on a system by providing an option that isn't just defeat 3 bosses get loot and win. The sky content has opportunity to be more flexible than dungeons because it doesn't have to follow a formula to entice players to go to them, they can play each island as it's own unique entity with positives and negatives unlike dungeons where they have to play the same, take the same amount of time, and the difficulty curve has to be worth the reward.

Make a dungeon to hard, people will just flock to the easier dungeon because they can be done faster (This is what happened with brayflox HM)

Dungeon takes to long, they will ignore it and do a more time efficient dungeon (Again brayflox HM)

They learned early on that if they aren't careful with finely tuning each dungeon to take the same amount of time/have similar difficulty that people are less likely to do them.

I honestly don't care that one is a Hard mode dungeon so long as I don't have to run Neverreap in roulette again and again and again for another 4 months.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I don't actually remember what they did change though, to make it so easy now. I was kinda sad when they did nerf it, as i really enjoyed it in its original form.

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Some trash mobs have been removed from the dungeon. First boss was given more HP so that DPS couldn't spawn all the dogs in a short span of seconds. Zu adds I think dealt less damage and had their HP reduced (and I think they took the cockerels MP draining ability away... at least I think it drained MP) and Siren's Feral Lunge AoE's size was reduced, dealt less damage and... I think that's it, really. Dunno if they did anything to the zombies (probably reduced their HP and STR).

Pharos HM seems to have Kobolds involved in some way, so we'll most likely not have Siren as a boss again and chances are we won't get a third remix of the Pharos Sirius theme (assuming the siren was the one singing it).

Don't get me wrong. I would be happy to see a third Siren in the game.

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Originally Posted by Airget

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The new pet battles is an entire new system, so it likely took more resources than a dungeon, as would airship exploration since they don't have a set pattern they can work with but I'm just guessing here. In an interview Yoshida did say instanced dungeons are fairly easy, cheap, and quick enough to develop, probably doesn't see them as being worth the time which is disagree with honestly. @Moonleg, fair enough. Gold Saucer was probably in development since 2.0 or 2.1. Didn't really think about that. >_<

I'm proper hype for pharos hard!! I love the music in there!!

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

People made it difficult by ignoring boss mechanics.
First boss spawned adds at fixed percentages of health. Kill adds and go back to boss, no problem... But most people insisted on just trying to burn boss.
Last boss was difficult because Siren wasn't silenced/stunned making it very hard on the healer for one specific move...

All in all, people found it hard because they wanted to burn everything instead of dealing with easy mechanics.

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No, it was not just that.
All four bosses used the "adds spawn at X% HP" mechanic, but because most players were in i70 to i90 gear and PS and it was tuned for i60 problems started occurring in the bosses timings.

It was fairly easy to unintentionally burn the 1st boss to the second add wave trigger when the first set of dogs were spawning. This would not have been so bad if the debuff the dogs and the boss' AoEs applied wasn't a near instant kill explosion when you got to many stacks.

Zu (2nd Boss) gained enrage stacks for each egg broken and lost them over time. Because the eggs started hatching based on the boss' hp% but the enrage stacks fell off based on time a group, doing the mechanics properly (kill only the hatching eggs) would cause an enrage if your dps was to good.

Siren herself was basically a semi-HM Primal fight. One of her adds would chase and gaol the tank/healer if it caught them, every so often she would do a wide charge through the center or a room wide aoe that require being in the center to dodge (and it was random if she would charge or aoe each time), did a the healing down debuff was every 30 seconds on a fairly short cast and she was the first appearance of a "heal to full to remove" debuff in game. If you did to much damage to fast you could end up having the adds spawn when the tank/healer needed to do something.

All of that combined made for a dungeon that was not worth the rewards it gave.

Sounds pretty good, anxious to see if the gold saucer will become interesting again and hopefully they add a lot to the vendor to entice people to participate. We are in need of more rewards of all types, to work towards.

Im cautious about the airship thing...I think its excellent if they do indeed allow access for those with no FC or ship (about time ppl are not divided because of that)

But..idk, if i know se....its just not gonna quite be worth the time.

Its just my gut feeling, I cant shake it lol, that it will be either too difficult for the majority...and/or the rewards will be underwhelming, some thing will limit things so much that it will not be as popular as they expect...we will have to see, hope I am wrong though! :)

Hard mode dungeons are so different from the original that it is not really a rehash at all so tha'ts cool too.

I do wish that they would finally deal with all of the UI, game play, housing qol and improvement suggestions that have been floating around for 2 years before adding anything new. Imo, these are just as needed and have been in existence far too long already.

The moment we would get something new I had a feeling this complaint would stir up.

I've made this point before, and I will say it again. We're dealing with a singular set crew who can only do so much within a specific time-frame. The more variety of content they produce, the more you take away time-wise from their production schedule. For us to get something new for them to update - something had to give.

I also predicted groans towards any content not being endgame progression orientated being designated 'not worth it' and ignored. But we've yet to see what sort of impact this new content is.

Anyways, once the new systems are stable and can be added into the update rotation we may see a return to our 'normal' update schedule.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

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I think the problem with diverting attention content away from the endgame, and into something else is that they haven't proven that they can do that successfully. They've attempted to create fun things like Triple Triad and Chocobo racing, but in the end all they did was create an endless, infuriating grind, specifically referring to Triple Triad here. You're right that we shouldn't try to judge it before it's out, but I'm willing to bet the Verminion game is going to be yet another unfun grind. I have hopes for airship exploration, let's just they butcher that with boring grinds too.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

I think the problem with diverting attention content away from the endgame, and into something else is that they haven't proven that they can do that successfully. They've attempted to create fun things like Triple Triad and Chocobo racing, but in the ende all they did was create an endless, infuriating grind, specifically referring to Triple Triad here. You're right that we shouldn't try to judge it before it's out, but I'm willing to bet the Verminion game is going to be yet another unfun grind. I have hopes for airship exploration, let's just they butcher that with boring grinds too.

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To be fair, you can say that about every piece of content they create.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

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People can criticize the content, an that's fair. But say that to those who've collected a full deck of Triple Triad cards and/or do tournaments regularly to go for the ones they haven't, and you're insulting their pastime.

Let's get something out of the way here - progression is a Grind. No matter how you spin it, the idea of working for a goal categorically qualifies it for being a 'Grind'. So no matter who's sensibilities you appeal to, you're going to have someone complain. This is what we got here. People asked for new, but when we got new, people complained about not enough old.

The more plates we keep asking SE to spin, the more plates are simply going to be dropped.

As far as catering to endgame... just look at those Alex Savage Clear numbers. They rate in the hundreds. at the lowest of floors. We don't need more distribution in endgame right now, we need more people interested in clearing what we have.

so they give us some minion fighting 5 mins of lols and forget lulz content instead of a 3rd new dungeon, k.

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

Well before it was nerfed, a lot of people found it hard >.>
No idea why though

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Pushing boss too hard would cause a billion dogs to spawn. Yeah, it sucks overgearing that place even for nerfed one.

Well ninja'd kinda.

Where is this info of the dungeons coming from?

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Where is this info of the dungeons coming from?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3263921

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

so they give us some minion fighting 5 mins of lols and forget lulz content instead of a 3rd new dungeon, k.

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This time last patch rotation we were given three dungeons, two of which were a whole 20 minutes of lols and forget lulz content, and then everyone just spammed whatever 1 dungeon was more efficient for tomes.

As far as I'm concerned they could have dropped the "Hard Mode" dungeon and just gave us more of this 'lulz' content you're going to complain about anyways. "Aww, Nevereap again?"

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

This time last patch rotation we were given three dungeons, two of which were a whole 20 minutes of lols and forget lulz content, and then everyone just spammed whatever 1 dungeon was more efficient for tomes.

As far as I'm concerned they could have dropped the "Hard Mode" dungeon and just gave us more of this 'lulz' content you're going to complain about anyways. "Aww, Nevereap again?"

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Ah, the Blizzard approach.

I'm honestly disappointed. I was under the impression that they changed 3 dungeons per patch into 2 because of they wanted to make entirely new content or something like that. I'm sorry, but reskinning an old dungeon is not new content. It feels like I'm being shafted quite frankly.

If the Continuum and Neverreap will be moved to High Roulette and the [i]two new ones[/s] one new and one recycled take the place of those, meaning we'll still have 2 dungeons in Expert Roulette again.... and if that remains the trend... Much fatigue, very quick. Not gonna be good.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Ah, the Blizzard approach.

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Just a bit of jadism. Again, it does not matter what SE does, they will get criticized for it by one camp or another. It was less than three weeks ago where we got complaints that we have all of the 'same old stuff' and now we're griping that we're one dungeon short of the '3 standard' when we have an entire new system given to us, on top of the frills.

I'm in my 30s and I feel like I should be out on a farm with a shotgun and a cain complaining on how I had to walk uphill to Jeuno both ways evading mobs that don't leash who aggro on truesight.
We got mauled in the entrance of Crawler's Nest and we liked it gosh darn it. *Goes to wash dentures*

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Originally Posted by Wizarus

I'm honestly disappointed. I was under the impression that they changed 3 dungeons per patch into 2 because of they wanted to make entirely new content or something like that. I'm sorry, but reskinning an old dungeon is not new content. It feels like I'm being shafted quite frankly.

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We always had Hard Mode dungeons. Where do you think all these previous (Hard) modes came from?

And we get entirely new content. We got the Airship explorations.

So we got 1 new dungeon.
1 Hardmode dungeon.
And Airship Exploration - which is likely far larger than the size of a dungeon for more work than a Hardmode.

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Originally Posted by Drakeos

Saint Mocianne Arboretum and Hardmode Pharos Sirius ?? this for 3.1 ?

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Correction. One new dungeon and a rework. Though, to be honest, given by how past hard modes have been handled, I'm not going to say Square is 100% recycling because although the aesthetics of the instances remain (obviously), aside from that the dungeons tend to be quite different. I guess everyone in the FFXIV team still gets their full share of work except the lore and scenery teams, maybe the monster design team a bit too (though honestly they've had an easy ride cause 50% of the enemies in this game are hi-res FFXI models.)