New To Tanking and Have Some Questions.

Hey all, I started tanking for the first time last night and I really enjoyed it.
Things didn't really go too bad. My health dipped low sometimes, but everyone but me was typing a lot and just kind of letting me do my thing and figure things out. And the SMN ripped from me a couple of times but I would usually pull back after a couple hits. Don't have Provoke Yet, waiting until 30 to get GLD to 22. I'm going WAR btw.


My questions are this.

Is tanking skill acquired mainly from practice and patience, or will a tank know if he is good or not pretty much at first?

When is the best time in an average trash pull to use cool downs to minimize healer stress?

What is the average ideal positioning in relation to the party?

Any Feedback is appreciated.

1. It's 100% practice. If you're a good tank from the jump, you're likely coming from another MMO. You will likely be pretty bad at first and improve from there. Don't go in expecting to make perfect decisions, but if you do then know that you're doing above what the average player would.

2. You usually want to plan your CDs ahead of time, but they're most useful at the start as that is usually when the healer will be DPSing (if not the whole way through).

3. Mobs facing away from party.

1. Practice!! Tanking comes down to a set of basic rules that are followed in order to keep the party moving quickly and safely. I made all sorts of mistakes when I first started, but as long as you can learn from it and work to improve the process then that is what makes a good tank. I heard once that tanking is a job and I think it really applies. It's using resources and managing not only your enemies but your party members as well. Learning through practice how to leverage and position everything is what makes a great tank.

2. I tend to hit a cooldown after the mobs are settled toward the beginning of a pull. Thats when you have the most mobs on you and when you'll get the most mileage out of your cooldown. Additionally, if your pulling multiple groups make sure you have the cooldown ready to run a little earlier to ease the initial casts of your healer.

3. Ideal positioning is always facing away from your healers. Generally DPS will move to make sure they aren't going to get cleaved, but if your HP is dropping then you don't want the healer to have to eat an AOE so you don't die. Do what you can to prevent their spell interruptions.

Some of your answers are going to depend on what class you're playing. For instance, DRK has a full toolkit of enmity generating tools out of the box. It also might be tougher for a first time tank. I recommend looking up and reading a guide specific to your class.

Tanking skill and tanking aptitude are really two different things. You will probably know within your first few dungeons whether you have the aptitude ("I want to do this.") It will take longer to develop the experience and comfort level to call yourself skilled ("I am good at doing this.")

Basic rule of positioning is keep your mobs faced away from your dps and healer. Open with your ranged move, close the distance, aoe aggro generating move (flash, overpower, unleash) a couple of times, then rotate enmity generating combo moves on all the mobs because your aoe dps will be hitting everything.

Use of cooldowns is really something you have to develop a feel for with practice. Again it depends on your class.

I did tank in WoW back in WotLK but this seems really different and I like it.

Also, does it generate more threat to use the 2nd combo piece when getting ripped from rather than the whole combo, IE say I'm ripped from, I use Tomahawk to close the gap, then should I use Skull Sunder, or just go through with the whole combo starting with Heavy Swing? This is when I don't have Provoke yet.

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Originally Posted by SirShuffles

I did tank in WoW back in WotLK but this seems really different and I like it.

Also, does it generate more threat to use the 2nd combo piece when getting ripped from rather than the whole combo, IE say I'm ripped from, I use Tomahawk to close the gap, then should I use Skull Sunder, or just go through with the whole combo starting with Heavy Swing? This is when I don't have Provoke yet.

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If its only one mob, usually a tomahawk followed by a full combo is better. Otherwise if its a group overpower is always handy. You can also utilize your stun to keep the mob still.

You have to do the whole combo or you don't get the optimal enmity generation for skull sunder. Do you have Flash cross classed? You could overpower then flash, then combo that specific mob.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

You have to do the whole combo or you don't get the optimal enmity generation for skull sunder. Do you have Flash cross classed? You could overpower then flash, then combo that specific mob.

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I do have Flash, but my current MP only lets me do like 2 of them so I try to use it sparingly for groups that are more spaced out or in case things just get out of hand. I would probably sooner do a 2nd Overpower.

You said you were waiting to get Provoke until you hit level 30 as MRD, correct? I'm of the opinion that Provoke is *the* single most important thing any tank could have, so you will make it much easier on yourself if you get it as soon as possible. It's just such a great cooldown, and it's nice to be able to practice using it before you get too ingrained in your ways of tanking without it.

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Originally Posted by Leidiriv

You said you were waiting to get Provoke until you hit level 30 as MRD, correct? I'm of the opinion that Provoke is *the* single most important thing any tank could have, so you will make it much easier on yourself if you get it as soon as possible. It's just such a great cooldown, and it's nice to be able to practice using it before you get too ingrained in your ways of tanking without it.

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I second this. I actually got Provoke from GLD before I started tanking with marauder.

And OP, a second overpower should work just fine. I like to weave flash because the TP drain is more of a concern than mp.

Understanding of mechanics in dungeons/raids/primal is 100% vital and priority 1 for tanks. If you die, the rest will fall (usually.)

Gauging your party as a whole. If you DPS/healer is undergeared, adjust the amount you pull accordingly.

Be efficient and effective with your cool downs. Make sure you are not letting your healer struggle. Plan accordingly.

Communication. Sometimes being a tank requires you to assume a bit of the leader roll. Talk to your comrades and figure out who is in charge of what mechanics and organize the group when the need arises. But understand that some may not need this and understand their role.

Also get all your defensive and aggro managing abilities ASAP to maximize your effectiveness as a tank.

Provoke is the most important crossclass in the game, imo (no job/role depends on a crossclass ability more than this), the sooner you get it, the better.

I've met good tanks that think their bad and bad tanks that think they're good. For the learning process just keep in mind your priorities. Manage Aggro > Survival > DPS and Support. It helps if you can run with a healer-friend once in a while and they can let you know how it feels as a healer to keep you up, but for aggro (your top priority) I think you can sort of tell on your own.

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Originally Posted by SirShuffles

Any Feedback is appreciated.

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When you get pacified (berserk wears off) try to weave in Flash for some xtra aoe threat.

Have provoke in the first slot. Don't want level sync to troll you one day and be without Provoke.

Switch targets regularly to check your healer's enmity bar on all of them. If the bar is nearing half or above half, batter it down with your aggro combo. Healing aggro in the beginning can creep up on you faster than DPS aggro. If you can't make it to all(because GCD) use overpower or flash. Also do this for DPS that isn't attacking what you're attacking. Most prefer to attack what you're attacking(and should as it helps them manage their own enmity) from what I've experienced. It doesn't hurt to double check to account for lag.

And if healer pull aggro, I use this when I don't want to move from my spot: Provoke > Tomahawk > Overpower when in range > aggro combo. Generally, you always always need to follow up provoke with an enmity combo or skill.

Pulling: You're gonna be stuck with foresight as your only form of mitigation in the beginning..and it sucks. Once you get vengeance and inner beast, pulls and other situations become easier.

Defiance: Level sync turns this off by default. Remember that.

Everyone is giving some good advices. I'd just add that you can use Berserk and Bloodbath together to get some nice self heals especially when spamming overpower on multiple targets.

Later, you'll be able to find some other awesome synergies between Berserk and all your self-healing skills (Inner Beast, Equilibrium, Second Wind if you decide to cross-class it from pugilist), which will make you really tanky when used in conjunction with your defensive CDs.

If you really want to become an awesome tank, you will with practice, especially on WAR which is really amazingly good when played at the max of its potential. Good luck !

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Originally Posted by GeekMatt

I've met good tanks that think their bad and bad tanks that think they're good.

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Funny because as an inexperienced tank, I never know how the party reacts. I had, what I felt was a bad run with me losing aggro a few times. A couple of bad positioning, that led to group getting hit by a good damage. Yet, I got a comm out of it.

Maybe it's because everyone else had logged out as I was still typing my meal culpa

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Originally Posted by Leidiriv

You said you were waiting to get Provoke until you hit level 30 as MRD, correct? I'm of the opinion that Provoke is *the* single most important thing any tank could have, so you will make it much easier on yourself if you get it as soon as possible. It's just such a great cooldown, and it's nice to be able to practice using it before you get too ingrained in your ways of tanking without it.

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This.

Also, Provoke can be cross-classed as soon as you get it, regardless of the level of the class using it (i.e. a level 15 MRD can use Provoke). I don't personally slot it that low on DRK, but I also don't generally have aggro problems on DRK either.

Speaking of aggro problems...if you're having trouble keeping aggro, you should look at your gear, especially your weapon. Having a weapon which has a minimum level requirement as few levels below you as possible (and which is HQ if it's crafted/white) will help greatly with keeping aggro, and having most of your gear that way will help as well (but not quite as much as the weapon will). Also, make sure you're putting your level-up points in STR, not VIT. The handful of HP you get from VIT isn't gonna help as much while leveling as the extra damage (and thus aggro generation) from STR will.

--Erim Nelhah

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Originally Posted by SpecialKK

Funny because as an inexperienced tank, I never know how the party reacts. I had, what I felt was a bad run with me losing aggro a few times. A couple of bad positioning, that led to group getting hit by a good damage. Yet, I got a comm out of it.

Maybe it's because everyone else had logged out as I was still typing my meal culpa

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Can pretty much assume it was because you actually tried to correct your mistakes and gain back threat.
To me a tank doesn't have to perform a 100% clean run to earn my comms just a good attitude and a good effort to do there best.
I'll instantly give my com to a tank who is obviously having issues and goes out of there way to ask for advice to make it better or finds a way to make it better on there own. Shows an effort to be better at there role.

Maybe I'm strange but at low lvl enmity is so easy to deal with that you can get by without provoke pretty easily until lvl 25ish. If I was on marauder I would almost rather have internal release or something in increase damage output to help deal with the lower DPS in those instances.

There's really not alot of mechanics or even enmity problems in the lower levels, plus WAR gets defiance at 30. I would say he should be getting it by level 30.

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Originally Posted by karateorangutang

Maybe I'm strange but at low lvl enmity is so easy to deal with that you can get by without provoke pretty easily until lvl 25ish. If I was on marauder I would almost rather have internal release or something in increase damage output to help deal with the lower DPS in those instances.

There's really not alot of mechanics or even enmity problems in the lower levels, plus WAR gets defiance at 30. I would say he should be getting it by level 30.

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Provoke pre-50 is entirely for re-gaining enmity (or pulling things from long distances), which most commonly happens by the tank dying and enmity being reset. It's recommended to get it >50 because of this reason - it's not fun dying to a boss, getting raised, and then not being able to get back hate.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Provoke pre-50 is entirely for re-gaining enmity (or pulling things from long distances), which most commonly happens by the tank dying and enmity being reset. It's recommended to get it >50 because of this reason - it's not fun dying to a boss, getting raised, and then not being able to get back hate.

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I guess there is that. I guess I'm just lucky then... I don't think I've used it in a pre 50 party in a very long time. I can see why he should have it though.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Provoke pre-50 is entirely for re-gaining enmity (or pulling things from long distances), which most commonly happens by the tank dying and enmity being reset. It's recommended to get it >50 because of this reason - it's not fun dying to a boss, getting raised, and then not being able to get back hate.

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You know this might be the best reason for me to go ahead and get it.
On 4 different occasions now the healer has let me die and admitted its because they tunnel visioned on dpsing a boss.
The sad thing is…
They just beat the boss without me. LOL

It also would have helped last night when my 2 dps were 55+ Dragoon and Black Mage.
I couldn't hold off them for crap.
My weapon was on lvl and my gear was pretty up to date too, so idk.
Got 3 comms though so I guess they felt sorry for me. HA!

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. Haven't tanked in a couple year and getting back into it with Warrior.



I have the most success when I...
1. Tab target the next pack to see who the DPS will attack first (got to love tab targetters...).
2. Tomahawk that mob
3. Run through the pack while casting Flash. Flash is 360 degrees so regardless of lag, any adds I didn't account for, and movement speed I can still get enmity on all of them.
4. Optional overpower if DPS is really strong
5. Then get DPS buff up and self heal proc during that cooldown
6. Overpower if trash is all the same or Single target abilities if there is a healer/high DPS mob. If there are only two mobs then cycle back and forth. Sometimes keeping your Fracture up on the other one is enough to keep enmity, but don't trust it too much.
7. Throw in a flash if TP gets low.

Don't forget your self healing proc and gear upgrades. You won't have the mitigation of other tanks so you need to be on the high end of HP for your level.

If defensive cool downs are needed I use the armor one first, then the healing received buffs. Seems to have worked so far.

As others have said, tanking is mostly practice. I just started tanking in this game, though I started with a PLD tank way back in FFXI (and did some raid tanking in The Secret World as well)-- got my PLD to 34 for Awareness and switched to Dark Knight, getting that job to 35 now. I'm really enjoying it. Especially at low levels, having a hotbar with marks on it for quickly marking target order helps a lot. Unless you're speed running, good dps will kill in order. You'll always get a few dps that ignore it (or BLMs who spam AoEs-- the only class I had trouble holding aggro from pre tank stance) which can make it difficult. In this case, it's mostly situational awareness-- knowing if you can pull threat back from the dps without losing threat in other targets. Once you get your tank stance, it's much easier (love having Grit at 30). Provoke has come in handy quite a few times. Occasionally you don't get the best healer or you'll make a mistake and you'll die or you'll miss a target with your AoE enmity skill. Provoke followed by ranged threat gain attack is a great way to get snap aggro back.

Knowing the dungeon and the fights will also make things 100% easier. Though you may not have seen it from the tanking side, you'll still have a nice grasp of the mechanics which helps immensely. Coming from DPS, that knowledge has been a life saver. The thing to remember is that you control the flow of the dungeon. If things are going smooth, you know when to can throttle it up a bit. If you're healer is lacking or you yourself are unsure, slow it down. Unless you're playing with a complete jerk, chances are, people won't get mad as long as you're doing your best to do it right.

If you really want to be a good tank, then level grind via duty finder. You'll learn a lot faster covering for bads than you will with guildies who're already good. Plus it gives a decent gil payout which is always nice.

Gaining back hate after being raised isn't really a thing before Toto-rak, though. WHM/CNJ can't raise in battle until 28 and arcanists don't get raise until 22. Not sure about astrologians. But the point is that in low level dungeons, you're going to release and regroup before the next set of mobs, so IMO provoke isn't the best choice to be the first cross class skill. I think a defensive cooldown is better.

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

Gaining back hate after being raised isn't really a thing before Toto-rak, though. WHM/CNJ can't raise in battle until 28 and arcanists don't get raise until 22. Not sure about astrologians. But the point is that in low level dungeons, you're going to release and regroup before the next set of mobs, so IMO provoke isn't the best choice to be the first cross class skill. I think a defensive cooldown is better.

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Thing is nothing you can cross class that low really makes that much of a difference so why not have voke as your number 1?

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Originally Posted by SirShuffles

Any Feedback is appreciated.

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1, it's practice, and mindset. When you go into a dg, think about what could be done better in that scenario. And ever stop learning, even I who tanked 2 years ever once stop trying to learn new things about my job and tanking.
2, i usually use it when there are big mobs in trash pulls with 2 or 3 small trash, use small def cd when there are about 4 trash, or sometimes 3. It's all about how much dmg you think you are gonna take. Some tanks never use any def cd during dg. saving them for who knows why
3, ideal positioning is to face away from pt. so that the frontal cleave wont reach your pt members. but if any dumb healer or caster stand in front of you. Feel free to let them taste the dmg

If your doing Mara tanking low level you'll run into things like bad dps/unaware dps an if they hit before you you'll pull agro seen as heavy doesn't have enmity. Also low level Mara can have tp problems.

It gets much much easier when you get to level 30 and get defiance. Since getting defiance I haven't had any class have more than half the emnity bar full. That's just from the standard combo and a couple of overpowers if your on the ps4 it's really easy after your second combo on the main(marked hopefully) mob you can press left and right to do emnity moves on the rest and you won't have to worry about emnity gen or tp problems.

Wait until 30 then it's easy going

Do I need to get Awareness?

I personally haven't had any problems with not having Awareness. The way I see it, crits are sporadic, so Awareness will either do nothing at all for you, or you'll get lucky that you clicked it at the right moment. It's not a reliable thing that'll save you in the long run, imo.

Mmmk Thats good GLD bores me to tears.

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Originally Posted by SirShuffles

Do I need to get Awareness?

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Yes.

http://www.ffxivinfo.com/job/warrior...=raw-intuition

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Originally Posted by Anienai

Yes.

http://www.ffxivinfo.com/job/warrior...=raw-intuition

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Awareness nullifies the penalty of raw intuition. this combo allows you to pop it without worrying about positioning, for stack generation or mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Awareness nullifies the penalty of raw intuition. this combo allows you to pop it without worrying about positioning, for stack generation or mitigation.

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Ah, I apologize. I forgot you were going WAR instead of DRK XD
So, yeah, if you're going WAR, definitely grab Awareness, since you know you're going to get critted during that window.

It also helps for frontal hits during RI, as crits are checked before parries.