Why do people hate Bards so much??

In WoW they hated Hunters and in this game they hate Bards. Why is that? Because they\\'re not as "macho" as a Warrior or something?!

They hate WM not bards.... now since there are 800 threads on this we can be done with this topic.

The class seems to be a magnet for bad players. Most bad players who try tanking or healing, or monk or something tend to quit before they reach max level.

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

They hate WM not bards.... now since there are 800 threads on this we can be done with this topic.

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Having a bad day?

It has to deal with the fact that Bards were one of the easiest classes to play just like Hunters in WoW. Being one of the easiest lead to a lot of idiots playing the class making lots of mistakes which ruined the reputation of the class. With the introduction of WM, it is just becoming apparent again who is good and not which is leading to the reputation to arise again.

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Originally Posted by Slick

Having a bad day?

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No I am stating that this is overdone already. In DPS there is one just anti WM and one about fixing animations and procs, in Gen. there is like three already. I prefer the lets try fixing procs and animations one and not the I hate WM whaaah ones. Wanders Minute...... do you read forums before posting much? And WHM is white mage not WM.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

It has to deal with the fact that Bards were one of the easiest classes to play just like Hunters in WoW. Being one of the easiest lead to a lot of idiots playing the class making lots of mistakes which ruined the reputation of the class. With the introduction of WM, it is just becoming apparent again who is good and not which is leading to the reputation to arise again.

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Can you clarify the WM comment? Did something change recently with White Mage?

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Originally Posted by Slick

Can you clarify the WM comment? Did something change recently with White Mage?

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What he's referring to is an ability Bards got with the introduction of 3.0 named Wanderer's Minuet.

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

No I am stating that this is overdone already. In DPS there is one just anti WM and one about fixing animations and procs, in Gen. there is like three already. I prefer the lets try fixing procs and animations one and not the I hate WM whaaah ones. Wanders Minute...... do you read forums before posting much?

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Maybe I'm having a bad day because I can barely comprehend this! Haha.

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Originally Posted by Cluebilly

What he's referring to is an ability Bards got with the introduction of 3.0 named Wanderer's Minuet.

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Ahhh, thanks. I've been away for a while.

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Originally Posted by Slick

Can you clarify the WM comment? Did something change recently with White Mage?

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WM is not white mage, it is Wanderer's Minuet. A lot of Bards won't use it.

You are either a troll or clueless, you have the ability that adds cast times, that is all the hate is aimed at. And the WHM is used in game for a lot of menus and is the common abbreviation for white mage. WM is thus free to be an abbreviation of Wanders Minute.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

WM is not white mage, it is Wanderer's Minuet. A lot of Bards won't use it.

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Every bard I played with used it? Maybe it's a vocal minority that post here :x...

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

You are either a troll or clueless, you have the ability that adds cast times, that is all the hate is aimed at. And the WHM is used in game for a lot of menus and is the common abbreviation for white mage. WM is thus free to be an abbreviation of Wanders Minute.

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Sorry, I'm a 42 year old man who doesn't have time to "troll" a video game website. So I guess I'm clueless.

I don't remember heels like you in the game the last time I played.

Because they are overly emotional. Then they have to cast something and can't dodge at all. You know, because BLM have never been able to dodge anything.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Because they are overly emotional. Then they have to cast something and can't dodge at all. You know, because BLM have never been able to dodge anything.

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They should just change the cast times to animation locks. Then they will actually have something to complain about. Ever use jump and get hit by an AOE twice?

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Every bard I played with used it? Maybe it's a vocal minority that post here :x...

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I have only ran into one who won't use it, but apparently a lot don't from what I am hearing. /shrug

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

You are either a troll or clueless, you have the ability that adds cast times, that is all the hate is aimed at. And the WHM is used in game for a lot of menus and is the common abbreviation for white mage. WM is thus free to be an abbreviation of Wanders Minute.

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Please, Charge... Charge time. Is unaffected by Silence. I hate the 'Cast Bar' graphic. It's bloody inaccurate. The charge time does not even match up to the Cast Times on GCD spells as either. They really should do more to differentiate the two visually.

And yes, there's a highly vocal minority on these boards and a bunch of people who are sick of the discussion. Slick, I'm sorry to inform you but since you were on last the toxicity of the boards has jumped up about threefold. It's probably not going to get better as things progress, but it will at least cool off once the 'new' on the Expansion wears off and those who cannot adapt to Heavensward leave out.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

I have only ran into one who won't use it, but apparently a lot don't from what I am hearing. /shrug

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It's more along the lines that most of the ones who refuse to use it have already abandoned the class entirely. In the post-50 content, I see FAR less bards than I used to in the pre-50 content. I've ran into a couple that still won't use it, but most of the ones that remain do......

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Originally Posted by Slick

Ahhh, thanks. I've been away for a while.

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It's a 'stance song' that allows Bards to do 30% more damage at the expense of having a charge time on their attacks. You have the people complaining that it shouldn't exist because they don't like how it feels when they stood still and DPS'd anyway, and the others stating that it's fine and people need to accept it and move on. Due to the damage boost from it, you can really tell who is bad and who isn't from who is using it. Trust me, there are a LOT of bads...who seem to be the ones threatening to leave if it isn't changed (please let them leave, PLEASE!).

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Please, Charge... Charge time. Is unaffected by Silence. I hate the 'Cast Bar' graphic. It's bloody inaccurate. The charge time does not even match up to the Cast Times on GCD spells as either. They really should do more to differentiate the two visually.

And yes, there's a highly vocal minority on these boards and a bunch of people who are sick of the discussion. Slick, I'm sorry to inform you but since you were on last the toxicity of the boards has jumped up about threefold. It's probably not going to get better as things progress, but it will at least cool off once the 'new' on the Expansion wears off and those who cannot adapt to Heavensward leave out.

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I remember coming on the board here last Summer and asking a question. I could not believe how NICE the responses were. It literally made me want to keep playing the game because the community, at least on this board, was so damn friendly.

I hate when they don't sing.
People claim they aren't "bards" anymore.
but totally forgot that they are support DPS and don't support.
And now even with WM givin' a booster in DPS, they don't wanna use that.
A lot of bards don't wanna do anything but whine.
-Gets flame suit, sword and shield ready-

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

They should just change the cast times to animation locks. Then they will actually have something to complain about. Ever use jump and get hit by an AOE twice?

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It's actually both. Animation locks combined with cast times makes for a very clumsy gameplay if the animations don't actually accommodate the cast times.

What bards want to be like : https://youtu.be/f3DMh46VhEA
What bards are actually like: https://youtu.be/o1RI53zYKSI

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

I hate when they don't sing.
People claim they aren't "bards" anymore.
but totally forgot that they are support DPS and don't support.
And now even with WM givin' a booster in DPS, they don't wanna use that.
A lot of bards don't wanna do anything but whine.
-Gets flame suit, sword and shield ready-

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This honestly all comes down to the fact that SE somehow got the idea of making the ranger, universally in mmo's the most played spec ever giving support abilities and changing it into bard.
Now that SE is going further in the support role people are flipping tables because it's getting further and further form the ranger they wanted to be in the first place.
They should have really used heavensward as a chance to split up archer jobs into bard with support role and less damage that it is now and ranger with more focus on ranged damage and a standard generic ranger/hunter.

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Originally Posted by Assirra

They should have really used heavensward as a chance to split up archer jobs into bard with support role and less damage that it is now and ranger with more focus on ranged damage and a standard generic ranger/hunter.

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Yoshi-P stated that he didn't like how the SMN/SCH split worked out, so it'll never happen, sorry.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Yoshi-P stated that he didn't like how the SMN/SCH split worked out, so it'll never happen, sorry.

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Well those are 2 different things. It doesn't work because 1 is a healer and the other is a dps.
Bard to ranger would essentially just be a switch of power from support abilities to straight up raw ranged damage.
If they don't do anything, this will go on forever since i like i said before, rangers are universally the most played class in mmo's ever.

Prior to 3.0, people didn't like the bards due to them not playing songs due to "losing dps"

Now people might hate bards due to them not using WM to boost their dps due to "losing movement"

Actually it's funny
I main bard, and so does my friend, and we both hate other bards... though I asked my friend who mains MNK and she says she hates other monks so maybe it's just that you're over critical of your own job.

/shrug

because they play with bad bards

I think it's a function of the fact that a lot of people are attracted to BRD because it's an "easy" DPS class. And yes, compared to melee, it is quite easy, but plenty of people use that as an excuse to be lazy. I ended up in story Ifrit with another BRD the other day and the only Venomous Shot DoTs I saw on Ifrit the entire time were mine. I guess people like that just assume that no one will notice if they aren't using their DoTs or something...

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

It's actually both. Animation locks combined with cast times makes for a very clumsy gameplay if the animations don't actually accommodate the cast times.

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You don't seem to understand what an animation lock is. When you use jump, you cannot move your character despite using the mouse/keyboard/controller to command you character to move. This caused the majority of deaths for dragoons in fights like titan. Even worse though, it made you be in two places at once. If you can move to interrupt your cast or oGCD (which isn't animation locked) then it's not animation locked. What you are talking about is not animation lock. It's the delay due to animation, which are on all skill. For example, holy has cast time, but the action doesn't occur until the animation completes (as is the case with skills off GCD, like benediction and HG). They balance this so they can adjust skills without adding cast time to them.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Please, Charge... Charge time. Is unaffected by Silence. I hate the 'Cast Bar' graphic. It's bloody inaccurate. The charge time does not even match up to the Cast Times on GCD spells as either. They really should do more to differentiate the two visually.

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If you want, you could turn the Progress Bar off in the HUD.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

...but the action doesn't occur until the animation completes. They balance this so they can adjust skills without adding cast time to them.

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And this is in full force for bard with the cast times, and how their animations are not changed to accomidate it. Trying to get the procs off heavy shot is even worse than firestarter even if you use an oGCD skill to cancel heavy shot's animation. And to add on, you can't use skills right after another until part of it's animation goes through, like how you can't do jump until you're half way into your full thrust animation. Bloodletter (or rain of death if you're multidotting for AoE) can reset off DoT crits, and it really doesn't work well with the amount of oGCD damage skills you use and the cast time; it creates a very fragmented flow of gameplay that feels very awkward to dance with.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

And this is in full force for bard with the cast times, and how their animations are not changed to accomidate it. Trying to get the procs off heavy shot is even worse than firestarter even if you use an oGCD skill to cancel heavy shot's animation. And to add on, you can't use skills right after another until part of it's animation goes through, like how you can't do jump until you're half way into your full thrust animation. Bloodletter (or rain of death if you're multidotting for AoE) can reset off DoT crits, and it really doesn't work well with the amount of oGCD damage skills you use and the cast time; it creates a very fragmented flow of gameplay that feels very awkward to dance with.

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Every job has this though. The difference is that bards get a 1 second lead time compared to casters (you actually aren't firing arrows due to game physics reasons so the animations are short). Of course, melee are get a longer lead time until the next actions, but the animations are naturally longer anyway. For example, the animation for fire does complete until 1 second unto the next GCD, so even if you did magically see the future an know that you will get a thundercloud or fire starter and began to cast on the next GCD, you will end of hard casting an not using the proc. It is impossible to use a proc like this for BLM due to cast times lining up with GCD but bards don't have this problem.

i dont like bards because i havent seen a single one use any of thier songs other than WM

no foe req, no tp song, no mp song when the healers stressed, not even friggin swiftsong. nothing.

this is literally every single bard i come across in DF

I don't hate bards. A lot can be annoying though. Before the expansion, they'd be clear on the other side of the arena, running back and forth even when there wasn't any aoe to dodge. Now, they stand in aoe so they don't interrupt their casting/dps.

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Originally Posted by SkyfangRauss

i dont like bards because i havent seen a single one use any of thier songs other than WM

no foe req, no tp song, no mp song when the healers stressed, not even friggin swiftsong. nothing.

this is literally every single bard i come across in DF

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I know the tooltip says you can sing other songs in addition to Wanders Minuet, but I'm a Bard not a DJ. One song at a time, don't ruin my immersion.

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Originally Posted by SkyfangRauss

i dont like bards because i havent seen a single one use any of thier songs other than WM

no foe req, no tp song, no mp song when the healers stressed, not even friggin swiftsong. nothing.

this is literally every single bard i come across in DF

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It's a Catch 22. If they use their other songs, people complain about them not doing enough dps. If they just use WM, people complain about them not using songs. WM needs to be separate from songs.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

It's a Catch 22. If they use their other songs, people complain about them not doing enough dps. If they just use WM, people complain about them not using songs. WM needs to be separate from songs.

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WM is separate from songs it uses no MP and can be sung with any other song?