Whoch job is harder? Monk or Ninja?

I am trying to main Ninja but I have a bit of latency (~130ms) so I am scared that I will lose too much DPS because of the Mudra lag. How is Monk in comparison? Which is harder to use if you dont take into consideration the mudra lag?

On equal footing as in same ping, same internet connection, Mnk is harder to play than Ninja due to consistently changing the angle of attacking.

On the other hand, if we counts ping and Internet connection between players, Mnk seems to be a safer option to go.

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Originally Posted by LionKing

On equal footing as in same ping, same internet connection, Mnk is harder to play than Ninja due to consistently changing the angle of attacking.

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Yep, taking a couple of steps to the left or right = difficulty :D

I used to main Monk and although I've always found it fun and exciting, I really don't understand the "better than you" mentality Monk players have over other melee DPS. They play differently to other classes. Different isn't harder.

Definitely monk. It's much more situational-dependant compared to ninjas.

It's easier to maintain huton as compared to GL3 and your damage buffs are toggled whereas monks get their damage buffs from twin/GL3 so you take awhile to charge up your dps if PB is down or you didn't get the chance to use form shift.

And then you also have to study the fights alot more than others so you know when are phases changes so you can charge up chakra and know when to dump your GL3 with TK. Missing the right moment can be really really punishing.

Other-wise in a perfect environment such as parsing on a practice dummy their DPS should more or less be about the same based on my experience. As for the difficulties of a ninja other than ping-related issues I can't think of anything else that might be annoying but I've never played a ninja as my main class so maybe somebody else will shed some light on that.

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Originally Posted by Kitria

Yep, taking a couple of steps to the left or right = difficulty :D

I used to main Monk and although I've always found it fun and exciting, I really don't understand the "better than you" mentality Monk players have over other melee DPS. They play differently to other classes. Different isn't harder.

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I mained mnk through most of ARR, and it's honestly the easiest of all dps classes after blm imo. The rotation is literally flank > flank > flank > rear > rear >rear while keeping DoTs up and using oGDC's. What's more is the class has a built in fail safe since you can't even use the next skill in your rotation w/o landing the previous one, so you can't fat finger the wrong skill and ruin your combo/rotation. The only real "challenge" came into play on raid bosses that didn't stand still or allow you to be in the proper position. At which point you have to be able to think on the fly and substitute flanks with rear attacks and vice versa when needed.

The class can be overwhelming at first with the thought of "everything has a positional", but when you get right down to it, it's actually very easy imo.

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Originally Posted by Eudyptes

I mained mnk through most of ARR, and it's honestly the easiest of all dps classes after blm imo.

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Try bard.


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Originally Posted by Manu-Kesna

I am trying to main Ninja but I have a bit of latency (~130ms) so I am scared that I will lose too much DPS because of the Mudra lag. How is Monk in comparison? Which is harder to use if you dont take into consideration the mudra lag?

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Neither of the jobs are really harder than the other, they just come with their own headaches. Play what you like... unless you have high ping.

Then play mnk, because ninja mudra will make you /wrists.

In ARR it was definitely Ninja but with HW they got some pretty nice QoL changes i.e. the nuisance of having trick attack ready but needing to refresh Huton is gone.
I'd say they are pretty much on equal footing now in terms of difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Manu-Kesna

I am trying to main Ninja but I have a bit of latency (~130ms) so I am scared that I will lose too much DPS because of the Mudra lag. How is Monk in comparison? Which is harder to use if you dont take into consideration the mudra lag?

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The DPS loss shouldn't be something to worry about with 130 ping, honestly.

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Originally Posted by Eudyptes

I mained mnk through most of ARR, and it's honestly the easiest of all dps classes after blm imo.

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At risk of being obnoxious, a casual glance at your lodestone indicates that you have exactly 0 dps classes at 60. While I want to imagine that you have another account, or some sort of experience as endgame dps now inspiring you to grace this particular subforum with your useful and practical advice, years of internet usage suggests to me that you probably don't.

So, I'll just say to you, there's been a significant change in design philosophy regarding DPS classes in 3.0. They have gone great lengths to make them more complex and difficult to play, and the autopilot dps juggernauts of yesterday (BLM, for example) scarcely resemble what they are today, which is shockingly finicky in raid settings.

Don't expect to understand anything beyond classes you've played extensively in 3.0 raids. I know I don't.

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Originally Posted by Eudyptes

The rotation is literally flank > flank > flank > rear > rear >rear...

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Sure if you want to clip demolish by 6-9 seconds.

Positionals have never been the tricky aspect to monk, managing GL is. You also never ever substitute flank/rear attacks because you can't get into the correct position in time. Ie. Using twin snakes because you are on the flank instead of true strike is a DPS loss. Just use true strike. The only time it's appropriate to substitute a attack for another because you can't get into position, is if you can't reach the rear, you can use DK instead of boot as both have the same potency on the flank.

How to MNK:
If you have to DK, you DK
If you have to twin snakes, you twin snakes
If you have to demolish, you demolish.

If you don't need to DK, you Boot
If you don't need to twin snakes, you true strike
If you don't need to demolish you snap punch

Positioning never ever changes this.

3.0 seems to have given all DPS jobs something new to manage (Chakra is by far the worst implementation of a resource however as charging it is extremely clunky and boring), and all seem to be pretty equal as far as ease of use is concerned. All are easy to play at entry level, and all take skill to reach max potential.

Monk doesn't have a complex rotation, it has constant awareness of positionals. Server delay plays a part in this. Where is the boss going to be facing in 1 second from now and where do I need to be to get my damage? Then you have to consider phases. If the boss is going to jump soon you don't want to waste precious GL3 time on Touch of Death, or if you're guaranteed to lose stacks you want to try and time Tornado Kick perfectly. Then a boss jumps... and then you're still not done. Monk is currently the only dps that actively needs to think during downtime about when to Form Shift to Coeurl stance and build as many Chakra stacks as you can.


It's a different kind of complex, you're constantly thinking about where to be and what to do while handling mechanics. It requires concentration. BRD(pre-3.0)/MCH/WHM have been my go-to classes when I want to relax, because they're mostly reactionary.

^Yes, it's well known. MNK is the only DPS class that need to think about refreshing their DoTs if a boss jump.

...or not.


Neither NIN nor MNK are "hard" to play. The skills they received from lv60 actually make them even more easier to play than before. But people in this game doesn't need much to label something as "hard", so yeah, it's definitely all about your own skill.
Although one would point out that having a decent WAR in your party is really appreciated as a NIN.

The "I'm better than you because I play Monk" mentality is real, but you'll notice that only bad players bring this up. From my pre-3.0 experience, DRG, WAR, NIN and SMN were harder to master than MNK.

As for those "Mudra-lag" stories, is it a reason not to play Ninja? Nope.

Hmm, I've never seen this "Monk elitism" people are talking about. I see a lot of people claim it's complex and hard when they haven't truly spent much time with it, though whenever I've said it's not that hard people think I'm trying to be modest :P maybe they have spent time with it and different things click differently for different people. I mean people (used to?) say how easy BRD is but I get very flustered with the amount of procs and things to weave.

But anyway, rotationally Monks are pretty straightforward. If you spend enough time with it the positionals aren't even a factor. In fact their rotation is probably the easiest of the melee classes, and maybe others too. It all comes down to those buff/dot timers - which lets be honest all dps have - but when restricted by forms and such it warrants active, quick-on-your-feet thinking to restore them optimally rather than having to think "well that fell off so now I need to do this 3 hit combo", even more so now that we can shift stances at will. But additionally, because we have to go through at most 3 moves to get everything not named Touch of Death back up (assuming you haven't lost GL3) it's pretty forgiving compared to, say, DRG, who would have to backtrack to the beginning of a combo and shuffle everything after it around to fit again from downtime.

My NIN isn't above 50 so I won't try and compare, even though I hear it hasn't changed much from 2.x either, but I guess I was joining in the "MNK probably isn't as complex as outsiders seem to think" camp.

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Originally Posted by Kleys

^Yes, it's well known. MNK is the only DPS class that need to think about refreshing their DoTs if a boss jump.

...or not.

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...DoTs? I mentioned one DoT and it had nothing to do with refreshing it.


lol @ suggesting pre-3.0 WAR/DRG were hard to master. The only thing easier than a WAR was PLD.

From a 50 prospective mnk, mudra lag is a pain in the ass and frustrating. Ninja itself is easy to play but the challenging part is not throwing your controller in a rage as the bunny appears

Both about the same, mudra lag is still a thing, and monk's 60 skills are a pain to master compared to the QoL skills that ninja got.

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Originally Posted by Eudyptes

The class can be overwhelming at first with the thought of "everything has a positional", but when you get right down to it, it's actually very easy imo.

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So much this. The only "hard" part about playing a monk is holding back the tears if you lose Greased Lightning. It's not like the entire rotation gets royally fucked if you miss a single GCD thanks to movement like a certain ridiculously strict spear-bearing class that everyone constantly makes fun of.

Both MNK and NIN are relatively easy to play. With the 3.0 patch the only real new mechanic MNK got was more OGCDs, chakra and form shift (helps in phase transitions to keep stacks). Other than that class plays exactly the same as it did before. NIN received a similar treatment with no new mechanics and 2 new DPS OGCD's and huton extender which acts as a mudra lag fix.

If you run MNK through dungeons by time you hit 60 you will have figured it out, same with NIN. The only thing you will be asking yourself is when do I hit all these OGCD's and thats situational knowledge that you will learn along the way.

As for which class would be better with your ping? If I were you I would go MNK, I have 100 ping and NIN really irritated me with the randomness of mudras. MNK is probably one of the most ping resistant classes in the game.

From my personal point of view Monk is way harder if you want to be good but that good pays off. Ninja on the other way isn't hard, it took me few days to learn how to use it good enough.

If you ask this cause you can't choose, you should know that even if they may look similar they are and feel pretty different:

Monk is all about positionals and keeping up Greased Lightning III, which is the stressful part. From 50 to 60 you'll learn skills that are mostly additions for those situations where Monks had to loose DPS due to mechanics (AoE too). It was good before, it's even better now but you really have to "git gud".

Ninja are all about velocity, after you use Huton the first time you'll feel like everything else is slow XD. Practice your mudra, learn your rotation and you're done. It's still kind of weak on AoE though. It had already utility from 1-50 but from 50-60 you get even more so to be good you'll have to be aware of your party.