It sucks having a Ast or a Sch just sit there and have to SS the whole party one by one where Whm can just sneeze and the whole party is SS. Is it wrong to share SS2?
Would it be wrong for all Healing jobs to have Stoneskin 2?
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07-11-2015, 01:48 AMBigcat9715Would it be wrong for all Healing jobs to have Stoneskin 2?
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07-11-2015, 01:51 AMKrixus
Well at least ast has lightspeed to SS a pt quite fast. Sch is the only slow one.
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07-11-2015, 01:51 AMLeiloni
WHM already had to give up having a better version of Stoneskin and Protect which IMO was not really necessary (even though I find these very useful on my AST, as a former WHM main I'm still bitter about those changes). Taking away the meager Stoneskin 2 would just be a punch in the gut.
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07-11-2015, 02:06 AMRisvertasashiBefore, there was a technical reason to not share SS2: It was the 18% version. However, with the stoneskin (and protect) nerf... although that did really hurt in terms of white mage identity... at this point, it's pointless to keep it exclusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiloni
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07-11-2015, 02:08 AMLeiloniKeep it exclusive because it's just an easy thing that the WHM's can offer. Sure, nobody is taking a WHM just for that, but it's a small benefit that's nice to have when playing as a WHM or with one. I don't see any reason to take away what few things they have over other jobs just for the sake of your own impatience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
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07-11-2015, 02:10 AMsharazisspecial
Yes everyone should get SS2 or just make Stoneskin aoe out of combat.
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07-11-2015, 02:10 AMRisvertasashiI main WHM ~.^Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiloni
But by that logic, why have SS2 at all? It was added exactly because we complained about manually casting a buff on 8 people before each pull... -
07-11-2015, 02:15 AMzuzu-bq
Me (SCH) and my AST partner just cast 4 SS each. I cast an extra for my loyal fairy. Its not like its as strong as it was before but still helps. I feel like a pre-succor on top of it is bit better now, back on 2.x I wouldn't even bother to cast it. But I agree that would be neat for other jobs to have SSII. I just wish Quick Stoneskin was a bit better since an AST with Lightspeed buff on will make better use of Stoneskin than a WHM.
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07-11-2015, 02:20 AMLeiloniKeep it for the WHM's but not the SCH or AST. Like I said, it's a "nice to have" convenience thing. Every class needs to have things that make them special that the others don't. WHM keeps losing all their special little things and that's just not fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
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07-11-2015, 02:25 AMSovereignAegis
I stopped using it because it was such a hindrance to cast to be honest, and with minimal rewards.
In before I get lectured for this, but it's the truth. Why should I bother casting it 8 times for every raid and every boss fight in the world when it only migrates 10% damage per person? When a single Cure I heals for like double that and is just easier.
Maybe I am lazy, but I don't see the point unless a fight for some reason demanded it. -
07-11-2015, 02:35 AMRisvertasashiI do agree with this...Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiloni
Yes. SS nerf was one of the bigger ones, IMO. Before I felt it was worthwhile to maintain in dungeons, might take the edge off if a DPS eats a big AoE or something. Now it just feels so... marginal. A mob so much as looks at someone funny, it falls off and barely mitigates.Quote:
Originally Posted by SovereignAegis
I've been letting my stoneskin habit fade more and more. Probably I'll eventually use it only when I absolutely have to (tankbusters that can oneshot the tank), and even then I think it will do much less than before. -
07-11-2015, 02:37 AMzuzu-bq
To be honest, if you stop to think about, Succor/Aspected Helios is faster to cast and does almost the same shield at the moment. The good thing is that they stack with SS, if you're a WHM you have no reason to not cast SSII while the other party members are still getting ready for the pull.
The main advantage of a pre cast raid SS is that it'll last longer if the fight doesn't start doing a raid wide mechanic right of the bat. -
07-11-2015, 02:56 AMLeiloniWell in a 4 man party it's pretty easy to cast and in an 8 man party you have another healer to help, so tell them to stop being a lazy ass and help you out a bit, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by SovereignAegis
This is why I like casting it on my WHM/AST. Also in 4 mans I try to keep it up in between pulls on everyone to make my life easier - less healing required and more time I can dps and buff, or in some cases if the tank really needs a lot of healing, I can focus on that and not worry about the dps taking a hit or two. In 8 mans I try to at least keep it up on the tanks, possibly healers in between pulls, but rebuffing everyone is just a bit much in that situation. But in general, it's nice to have an opportunity to throw out some DoTs before the tank really needs healing, since most fights don't have big damage off the bat. And in between pulls, or at the end of a pull, it doesn't have any effect on mana because the small bit needed to recast SS is regenerated by the time we get to the next pull anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by zuzu-bq
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07-11-2015, 04:30 AMBigcat9715Well, Sch has lose 1 or 2 abilities to both Ast and Whm. Sch was the only one that had a dome ability when it first came out, but then WHM and Ast got their own versions of it. Ast and Whm also got there own version of Lustrate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiloni
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07-11-2015, 04:45 AMRisvertasashiAST dome is a bit comparable in Noct, but WHM dome isn't. The only similar thing is that it's a GTAoE (most DPS classes have this), but it's a GTAoE regen. Lustrate's a bit closer but none can be used nearly as often as the SCH one, and AST's instant heal is a scaling thing which neither WHM nor SCH has.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat9715
Whereas SS and protect... they're literally the exact same spell. SS/prot casted by a SCH or AST or PLD works exactly the same and blocks/mitigates the exact same amount. Compare to Virus and E4E, where SCH still has the best versions of each and AST doesn't get either of those. -
07-11-2015, 06:21 AMzuzu-bq
E4E from Scholar and a White Mage has no difference on effects, just cooldowns.
White Mage is a bit special by having Virus and E4E even if cross-classed, something that the third heaer, AST, can't. Ok Disable is a Virus counterpart but Virus works on multiple hits.
While WHM players are a bit upset with their lost traits, wich I understand, they are still reffered as the healer with massive heals. I don't really feel the proshell thing was a big deal, this happened so any combination of healers is viable. The Quick Stoneskin trait is a bit weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayohne
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07-11-2015, 06:41 AMRisvertasashiCD for a skill like that matters, and Disable works on magical attacks. But...Quote:
Originally Posted by zuzu-bq
I'm not saying the balance is off or WHM has nothing to bring to the table. Just, it does suck to lose a big part of the job's identity. Protect we knew was coming, but the stoneskin nerf was stealth right up until an hour or two before the maintenance ended. And despite what they say about worrying about scaling, mob damage has scaled up right with HP values and made it very lackluster...
At this point, though, IMO withholding SS2 from other jobs is a wash. Might as well throw that bone. -
07-11-2015, 07:21 AMTranquil
I fail to see the issue people are having with this. If you run a SCH/AST/PLD comp (which is likely), you can have 3 guys spam Stoneskins, and even with targeting overlapping it gets done quickly. It isn't even noticeable if you have a NIN in the party whose Huton timing you have to wait on for a pull anyway.
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07-11-2015, 08:03 AMBigcat9715Whm has never lost its identity at this point stoneskin and protect has become mandatory among all healers, and Stoneskin 2 should be no different. The identity of each healer is simpler then you guys make it out to be. Whm is the pure healer, Sch is the dps/healer, and Ast is the support/healer if this changes in anyway like bard losing their mobility while attacking then they would lose their identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
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07-11-2015, 08:32 AMBhuni
Succor/Nocturnal Field and go.
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07-11-2015, 08:46 AMckc22I think you mean for the Sch to have to SS the whole party by themselves cause like 1/3rd of lvl 60 Asts have stoneskin at all....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat9715
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07-11-2015, 11:56 AMrawker
yes, it is. WHMs dont have any party-wide shielding spells or abilities like SCH/AST(?). I would want SE make it usable during combat, though.
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07-11-2015, 12:59 PMSelli
I main WHM and I would gladly let the other 2 healing jobs have Stoneskin II.
I've spent my whole WHM life after 35 skipping past every single cutscene so I could Stoneskin people because no. one. waits. ever. Leveling AST and SCH has been incredibly annoying (especially SCH with Protect > Stoneskin > Atherflow > Aldo > Succor), I'm lucky in 8-man content if I can even Stoneskin both the tanks.
There is absolutely no reason why the other healing jobs can't have it. It was created because buffing before bosses took forever. It was given to WHM because of the Stoneskin trait. Now that we no longer have it, make it a AST/WHM/SCH only skill. -
07-11-2015, 01:12 PMbasketofseals
Can someone honestly tell me why Stoneskin is considered mandatory? The damage absorbed is TINY. The only time I ever find myself casting it is if everyone in the group is at full HP AND I am at full MP.
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07-11-2015, 01:49 PMSuzakuCMXYou pre-cast it before a pull so you can spend more time DPSing (or if you're lazy in dungeons like me so you can check the forums or text)Quote:
Originally Posted by basketofseals
You use it in raids because 10% of a tank's HP is a lot to mitigate, and after a tank buster (which comes often) the tank is left with 10-15% HP during progression (sometimes less). It gives you a much needed buffer so that your tank doesn't die if the boss were to get an unlucky crit auto-attack (which seems to happen too friggin often). -
07-11-2015, 01:57 PMrawker
I've actually used Awareness all the time now. They made enemies crit more frequently than before. Also, that 10% HP it gives is sometimes greater than the shield succor does. Lastly, it stacks with divine veil and SCH/AST shields. Stacking all those shields make good party-wide protection.
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07-11-2015, 04:52 PMNibelung
To be honest, it would be unfair if Stoneskin II could be used in battle. Very unfortunately, that is not the case (but it should be), so...I get your point.
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07-11-2015, 05:18 PMbasketofsealsI don't really hard core raid, so I guess this is lost on me. I just can't help but wonder what a paladin is thinking when he casts Stoneskin on him before every pull when we're in a light party dungeon. It's like 2 autos, or just 1 auto from a boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX
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07-12-2015, 01:26 AMrawkerThank goodness you aren't tanking.Quote:
Originally Posted by basketofseals
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07-12-2015, 04:01 AMSuzakuCMXHe's probably thinking "hope my healer will DPS while I'm not taking damage due to Stoneskin so this can go much faster." It's not necessary in current dungeons if you go one pull at a time, but in speedruns and end-game raids Stoneskin is as necessary as Swiftcast.Quote:
Originally Posted by basketofseals
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07-12-2015, 12:45 PMGreven
Well, SCH can succor or even Adlo+E4nE+DT. Astro can Lightspeed.
I would rather them give combat SS2 to WHM and non combat SS2 crossclass to the other healers. -
07-12-2015, 02:35 PMDeadRiserWhat?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiloni
Yes. I see party finder's all the time looking for WHMONRY because of Stoneskin II. Not because of their amazing healing power/regens. -
07-12-2015, 02:37 PMSuzakuCMXNot to mention the only class that gives a party MND bonus.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadRiser
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07-12-2015, 03:48 PMMutemutt
To be honest, I wouldn't care if they did share stoneskin 2 with the other healers and I wouldn't care if they didn't. I don't find pre-pull stoneskin nearly as influential as people seem to make it sound, especially stoneskin on anyone who won't be tanking.
And as healer I'd be thinking, "just hurry and pull so I can start chaining holy stuns already..."Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX
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07-12-2015, 05:44 PMbasketofsealsWith all of the new dark knights running around, sometimes I am tanking D:Quote:
Originally Posted by rawker
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07-12-2015, 06:35 PMMXMoondoggie
Stoneskin II is a pointless skill with one time saving use I don't care if they give it to other Healers. They might as well since they already removed things that make WHM stand out while buffing what makes the other Healer classes stand out. The damage has been done that pointless Stoneskin II skill is the least of our worries when it comes to losing our identity. Soon they'll probably make AST a better primary Healer so nobody will be able to play WHM at all because SE seems to be on this quest to phase out WHM.
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07-12-2015, 08:18 PMSelliHave you even used any of the new skills? Every single one of them is amazing. What even is there to be upset about?Quote:
Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie
WHMs still have the same amazing healing they've always offered and now they offer some pretty decent DPS as well. They even got a skill that restores MP based on their MP pool which is something WHMs have been asking for since... forever. -
07-12-2015, 08:31 PMRaminax
Nah, let's just listen to Party Finder wisdom with 180 requirements for Bismarck Ex. White Mages are over, our only use is Stoneskin II and the Mind buff for the Scholar god.
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07-13-2015, 07:01 PMdeoshmm...Quote:
Originally Posted by rawker
how about making SS2 an ability with 30 - 60 sec cd that can be used infight? would be fair after the SS nerf wouldnt it?
and no, it should stay WHM only (or it should at least have double the cd on other classes) -
07-13-2015, 07:53 PMGarlyle
As a WHM I'm still genuinely clueless about how people can try to legitimately argue for Stoneskin II being exclusive. It's literally nothing but a convenience button for speeding up out-of-combat setup. It has absolutely 0 functional gameplay impact. And if you genuinely believe somehow that it being available to other healers is going to somehow damage WHM, or that this button is somehow something super special and worth defending, you're ridiculous.