If you could kill off one of the scions...

Who get's the axe?

Minfilia gets my vote.

What's with the obsession with killing the scions?

Me personally if I had to see a main story NPC bite the dust (Again) then I want see Eistenian return and wind up axing himself to stop Nidhogg. I mean we already Lost Louisoix, Hauchefaunt, Moonbryda, and Iceheart, Why the heck should any others Die? We have more than enough reason to take down the Ascians out of sheer vengeful rage alone.

And don't forget, Livia sas Junes killed like 20 of them (Including the only sylph I actually liked) when she stormed the waking sands in 2.xx

Again WHY MUST WE KILL MORE !?! For Twelve's sake Y'shtola was technically dead after casting Flow since she got stuck in the life stream.

Though, if I had to pick based off of what make's more plot since, I say Urainge having a falling out with Elidibus and taking that white robed bastard out in the process would be a fair ending for him. He'd get to be with Moon and Louisoix again and Avenge both of their deaths since the Ascians were the reason the two died to start with.

Extra Post Edit: And lay off my Waifu damn it!!! Minfilia ain't done nothing to you.

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Originally Posted by Pikachu_Pizza

Who get's the axe?

Minfilia gets my vote.

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Agreed, put Minfilia to the sword, drop her in a pit of Morbols, and then feed the remains to the chocobos.

Because non-side people who die need to stay dead. Heavensward was a good start, but the Sultana coming back was just as cringeworthy as it was predictable.

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

Agreed, put Minfilia to the sword, drop her in a pit of Morbols, and then feed the remains to the chocobos.

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I'm..terrified to know what goes on in that head of yours..

T A T A R U P L E A S E

Even Minfilia hasn't my love, but Tataru is a lalafel too u.u
*lala-racism xD*

I hate characters that cry every 2 sec, complain because they are weak or seems to be sad for something but right after ask you for the dumbest things XD

Tataru taru.
I honestly do not care u wanna be an arcanist or fisher etc. No i do not want ur seashell necklace thingy u gave me. Do i hate lalafells? Yes.
What powers/ utility do u have tht benefits the scions. Morale support? Stop warming that bench and do something useful for once instead of making me do dumb fetch quests.

Tatarus fault for not locking the doors in the waking sand as livia simply just walked right in and killed a bunch of em lol.
Ik they can just break down the door but still i blame tataru for being a lala that can't fight.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Though, if I had to pick based off of what make's more plot since, I say Urainge having a falling out with Elidibus and taking that white robed bastard out in the process would be a fair ending for him. He'd get to be with Moon and Louisoix again and Avenge both of their deaths since the Ascians were the reason the two died to start with.

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I actually got to go with this, with a side of "I'd rather not have more deaths/"deaths" for a bit on the good guy side. Estinien is already close enough to "we save him only for him to immediatly die because A. Nidhogg, or B. Lahabrea (STILL sure he'll be back.) Atleast here we have a good reason for it, a possibility that while things may be in partnership right now they both know it won't last (atleast if he doesn't end up a traitor, which if he is he probably isn't on their side anymore after Moen's death.)

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

At least here we have a good reason for it, a possibility that while things may be in partnership right now they both know it won't last (at least if he doesn't end up a traitor, which if he is he probably isn't on their side anymore after Moen's death.)

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Moen's Death hit me hard in the feels too. I lost someone IRL not long before that was to me like Urainge was with Moenbryda. So I actually empathized with Uriange emotionally with that. And I gotta say, I could really see him losing his shit to take out Elidibus if he starts bad mouthing Moen as being nothing but a pawn and Uriange not giving a damn about the consequences. (End up taking him out with a forbidden offensive spell that makes Ultima look like a pop gun by comparison)

Why would you want to kill of any of them after everything they have done for us at this point? Everything bad that has collectively happened to the Scions has been either because of us (Garlean raid) or to defend us... at this point anyone who so much as approaches my Scions the wrong way is getting a tera flare to the face.

Oh that's easy, Urianger, that traitorous backstabbing SOAB. Dangle him in front of a fat chocobo.

The ending of the ARR story arc was very gut wrenching for me, I really liked most of the Scions, so after all the struggles they had been through to be rewarded like that... ouch, really just ouch.

That aside, good story can only exist when a storyteller knows when he must kill his own children, whereas bad story teller has every important character walking around in an eternal eggshell. Not too far into the HW story yet but hope the rumors about them undoing the ending of ARR aren't all true..

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Originally Posted by Kalamari

Oh that's easy, Urianger, that traitorous backstabbing SOAB. Dangle him in front of a fat chocobo.

The ending of the ARR story arc was very gut wrenching for me, I really liked most of the Scions, so after all the struggles they had been through to be rewarded like that... ouch, really just ouch.

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On that note, Uriange didn't seem to be too happy to be there. And it seemed like even from Elidibus' perspective, what ever he asked Uriange to come there for was begrudgingly done of both parts. Yea their tones of voice really didn't seem like they enjoyed the fact they were in each other's company any more than the other did. Thus the (Apparently popular) theory that mister Robe and Mask that's sending us on (Yet anouther) Primal hunt and giving us in spill on the TRUE Eikions is actually Mr. "Emissary" in disguise.

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Originally Posted by Kalamari

That aside, good story can only exist when a storyteller knows when he must kill his own children, whereas bad story teller has every important character walking around in an eternal eggshell. Not too far into the HW story yet but hope the rumors about them undoing the ending of ARR aren't all true..

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But on the other hand if you kill off too many of the characters that people love, and most especially in the core group, you risk people not wanting to know what happens next.

And from my warrior of lights perspective if she loses many more people who she cares for she is liable to have a complete emotional collapse and die of grief x.x it is already shown very clearly in the dark knight storyline that part of WoL is broken at this point. Any more trauma and what will happen then? DX there needs to be some sunlight on the horizon in the end...

lol warrior of light deffs needs the axe and will return as a warrior of darkness.

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Originally Posted by Aryalandi

But on the other hand if you kill off too many of the characters that people love, and most especially in the core group, you risk people not wanting to know what happens next.

And from my warrior of lights perspective if she loses many more loses she is liable to have a complete emotional collapse and die of grief x.x it is already lampshaded in the dark knight storyline that part of WoL is broken at this point. Any more trauma and what will happen then? DX there needs to be some sunlight on the horizon in the end...

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The Scions are the only thing that kept us as from going astray. Think about how different the story would be if Gaius or Eldibis found us before Minfilia did and how different the story would be. If they kill off to many more main characters this early, especially ones like the Scions who the plot depends on for continuation, then they risk the entire story being ignored and the game becoming another "WoW Clone".

I honestly wished they'd all die but that's prior to 3.0. Because I felt like the WoL had this ball and chain around his ankles due to them. The WoL is and should remain an adventurer in his heart in my opinion. Not some political tool.

Although, if I were to pick one of them. Thancred!

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

The Scions are the only thing that kept us as from going astray. Think about how different the story would be if Gaius or Eldibis found us before Minfilia did and how different the story would be. If they kill off to many more main characters this early, especially ones like the Scions who the plot depends on for continuation, then they risk the entire story being ignored and the game becoming another "WoW Clone".

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I typed that out horribly.. ew, yay edit button. post limit making me re-do it a second time is frustrating... threw me off, fixed it.

And i would like to think the warrior of light would have done well on his/her own, you do alot of good before the Scions get a hold of you (one of the things that gets their attention in fact is your drive to help people.) But losing them all I think would most certainly break the Warrior of light pretty horribly. You need people to help shoulder burdens like the one our characters carry or they will simply be crushed under the weight

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Originally Posted by Aryalandi

I typed that out horribly.. ew, yay edit button. post limit making me re-do it a second time is frustrating... threw me off, fixed it.

And i would like to think the warrior of light would have done well on his/her own, you do alot of good before the Scions get a hold of you (one of the things that gets their attention in fact is your drive to help people.) But losing them all I think would most certainly break the Warrior of light pretty horribly. You need people to help shoulder burdens like the one our characters carry or they will simply be crushed under the weight

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But who told us anything of the Primals and the Mother Crystal? What if we went around Eorzea being told Primals are just false Gods that need to be destroyed along with their followers, the mother crystal was an Evil Parasite that is preventing the "True God" from bringing an eternal era of peace, And that the twelve were just false images that people pretend are gods for political power? Then we're told the key to Zodiark's revival, Destroying the Primals permanently, and bringing an eternity of prosperity with no more suffering was to use the Echo to Aid the empire and revive the Ascian God. If we were told all of that with our having met the Scions and becoming Friends with the Grand Company Alliance, who's side would you be on?

To this day Gaius van Baelsar's words in the Praetorium haunt me. Because I've seen my self how he may very well have been right.

I'd be happy to be rid of Tataru, total joke of a character

In fact imo Tataru is being more useful/interesting on Heavensward that Minfilia was on all the 2.0 story + updates.

Shes not a fighter but a information colector and people identify more with her struggles finding her place and what she can do and she cant than with the Mary/Gary Stu Scion characters that all are hyper competent on their camps. Plus i like her synergy with Alph, being Tataru so optimimist compared with Alph who tends to have depresion moods sometimes.

To put it this way the Scions are static, since they all are more or less matured while Tataru and Alphinaud are on the growing phase, thus they are able to evolve and grow as persons.

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Originally Posted by Aseity

I'd be happy to be rid of Tataru, total joke of a character

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hey! wedge wants to tap dat.



i would kill minfilia. she is worthless on the other hand.

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Originally Posted by Wizarus

Because non-side people who die need to stay dead. Heavensward was a good start, but the Sultana coming back was just as cringeworthy as it was predictable.

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In the beginning I was pleasantly surprised SE seemingly had the balls to kill off such a major character. I suppressed the idea of her not being dead, as it was too obvious. Then, as we all knew, status quo had to be maintained and she had to be alive. The only real consequence of the whole ordeal was the loss of an arm.

The only death that actually had some impact on me was Hauchefaunt's. All others were expendable and I kinda saw it coming. Moenbryda was introduced just for the sake that they needed a death, or an impact, in the story. At least it felt like that to me. Same thing with the crystal braves.

As for what Scion I would see dead? It would actually be quite fitting if Thancred had died at the end of the 1st story as a point of no return thing.

Alphinaud...I can't stand Minfilia either, but I really despise Alphinaud. Of course I'm only about 1/2 through the HW MSQs, so he may redeem himself somehow, but I don't count on it.

Definitely Minfilia, the most boring Scion of them all.

Minfilia. Can we get a capable leader that isn't just something guys are supposed to drool over? Next time the Garleans/Ascians/Bowser capture her, let's just tell them we don't want her back.

Hell, at least Alphinaud got a private army in each nation's capitol, even if evil scheming lalafells did turn the tables on that.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

snip.

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Uuuuh, I'm just gonna go ahead and say it, you know the WoL is the leader of the Scions of the 7th Dawn right? Minfilia's title is antecedent. That title means "That which came before" and she has that title simply because she's the oldest known Echo User amongst the path of the twelve. Minfilia doesn't seem to lead because she's not a leader. The Archons and the Twins go out and reserch, hunt primal locations, make political deals, and be a general pain in the empire's ass. Tataru and Minfilia handle logistics and contact information, and that's about it.

The WoL how ever is the real leader of the Scions. We kill the primals, we are always the 1st into battle, we deal with the ascian machinations, and We are always the 1st person Minfilia and the others call when the shit hits the fan.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

And don't forget, Livia sas Junes killed like 20 of them (Including the only sylph I actually liked) when she stormed the waking sands in 2.xx

Again WHY MUST WE KILL MORE !?! For Twelve's sake Y'shtola was technically dead after casting Flow since she got stuck in the life stream.

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I think death adds depth to the story. How stories deal with death (or lack thereof) really affects my opinion on how good it is.

I don't want any Scions to die, in particular, so I'm not going to vote for someone.
But I don't think it's good if we kill off our enemies, even the major players, while not losing those of similar importance that are close to us.

If they lose comrades, we should too.
It's true we lost a lot with Livia and even in 2.55, but we have killed similar underlings of the bad guys in much greater quantity.
When we start killing Ascians, I think it's okay if we lose some Scions or others close to us.
Seeing Iceheart and Haurchefant die was really hard, but they were good deaths and that's part of making a great drama.
Though I really did want Iceheart to have a longer role than she did (or still may? I have doubts she'll come back though).

The death count of bad guys to good guys don't need to be artificially equal.
But death is huge. Dishing it out needs to have some level of karma or causation in return.
Why? Not even just to make a good story, but if we're going to kill we should know what its like to lose those close to us as a hero character.

We've killed a lot more than we lost.
And that's fair, we're still the heroes and it's still our story.
But we're going to keep killing, so there should be more loss.
And it shouldn't just be brought in characters, to just kill off soon after.
On the other hand, we shouldn't lose everyone around us either, since we need a party to mark most of our journey together and live through with.

So yea, it's a tough balance which is why how stories deal with death is really important in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

The WoL how ever is the real leader of the Scions. We kill the primals, we are always the 1st into battle, we deal with the ascian machinations, and We are always the 1st person Minfilia and the others call when the shit hits the fan.

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Are you just saying that cause of those reasons?
That makes us more of a general than a leader. Actually, more like a lieutenant or commander.
We're the muscle, not the leader.

I'm pretty sure it's explicitly stated somewhere that Minfilia is the acting leader now.
Unless you have some source that says we're the leader or they state it in such a way?
Because I don't think the reasons you gave really infer any leadership status on us.

If we were the leader, there would be a lot more black text boxes depicting our own thoughts to action, imo, instead of us taking orders.

That said,I think Thancred can go. His arc passed.

Alphinaud. I want to shove him ponytail-first through a meat grinder.

if you really want to get down to what the game actually says, there is no "Head Scion". It's a coalition between the Path of the Twelve and The Circle of Knowing. Neither of which had a definitive leader either. (Although Louisoix pretty much founded both)

But there's a lot more reason to kill Antagonist plot wise than Protagonists.

If Lahabrea keeps coming back, and coming back, and coming back, and coming back, what happens in 6.0 After the Ascian plot line is over and he's STILL coming back? He gets reduced to a joke antagonist that's not a treat as much as an annoyance.

What happens if we just kill all of the Scions and leave the WoL to go solo? The plot ends because we have no idea what to do with out them. That's the curse of being a "Silent Protagonist". The plot is carried by our interaction with our allies and enemies not OUR actions in and of them selves.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Uuuuh, I'm just gonna go ahead and say it, you know the WoL is the leader of the Scions of the 7th Dawn right? Minfilia's title is antecedent.

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Nope, not buying it. We're the errand boy/girl. The primal slaying minion. You ever hear them say stuff sometimes like, "Well if diplomacy fails we'll just send our trusty WoL"

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Nope, not buying it. We're the errand boy/girl. The primal slaying minion. You ever hear them say stuff sometimes like, "Well if diplomacy fails we'll just send our trusty WoL"

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We are just a pawn.

Also in regards to the rest of the scions... this is like GoT unless you see the body they aren't dead.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Also in regards to the rest of the scions... this is like GoT unless you see the body they aren't dead.

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Unless you're royalty....then it's a coin flip.

Y'shtola should die.. not because I hate her, but because I like her best. It would be tragic and I would actually care lol unlike when the sultana died (but then came back.. Lame!)


But really my least favorite is Minfillia.. I'd like to kill her myself. (Make it happen SE)

I think this is the 1st time I've ever looked up any story related thread to FFxiv. Why is Minfillia hated this much? Ok, she could be more "useful" in terms of combat, but all the scions seems equally(ish) "useful" at some level. There are other things than muscle and brawls when it comes to usefulness. Whatever that means. Diplomacy, logistics, leadership, sexyness etc.

Papalymo. He bugs me.

Actually, all the people sayin "Let me kill <name> myself" gave me an idea.

Gimme a Tactics-esque fight similar to Zalbaag's zombie form where we fight a reanimated Scion who's completely aware of what they're doing but can't stop themselves. I dig those fights. Best bit of Tam-Tara HM.

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

I think this is the 1st time I've ever looked up any story related thread to FFxiv. Why is Minfillia hated this much? Ok, she could be more "useful" in terms of combat, but all the scions seems equally(ish) "useful" at some level. There are other things than muscle and brawls when it comes to usefulness.

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People don't like Minfilia because, aside from being the Scions' manager, she doesn't really do anything but sit in the Solar. We're told to go have Mutamix infuse a knife of hers with materia as an intro to the materia system, and she never uses it. When we're going into the Sapsa Spawning Grounds, she cowers behind Merlwyb every step of the way. Every other Scion does something useful - even Tataru, who seems to have made a reputation for herself as an information broker and fashion designer in 3.0. Minfilia is just a manager - she tells everyone else what to do while doing nothing herself. It's not her lack of combat proficiency that irks me.

As an aside, being sexy is not a direct asset to the organization.

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Originally Posted by Valentyne

Gimme a Tactics-esque fight similar to Zalbaag's zombie form where we fight a reanimated Scion who's completely aware of what they're doing but can't stop themselves. I dig those fights. Best bit of Tam-Tara HM.

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That would be an... interesting fight, but I'm hoping they come back as the Warriors of Darkness. Not dead, just turned against us on an ideological level.

I'd say either Papalymo or Yda; both come hand in hand and perhaps losing a partner will effect them greatly. More so Yda

Would kill off Minfilia if I had a chance.