Hello fellow Dark Knights,
I did look to see if there were any obvious thread titles on the first page to see if this has been brought up, so sorry if this topic is already being discussed elsewhere.
As I have been running more and more content on my DRK, I have noticed something very peculiar. I'm not sure if this is working as intended, but it doesn't seem like it should.
I've been toying around with openers. DRK seems to be a much more consistent DPS then warrior, albeit lower in general. When off-tanking, we can keep Blood Weapon on CD, and we don't normally have MP issues. When checking my numbers in a 3min parse, I was able to use Dark Arts for every single Souleater/C&S. We won't talk about the glaring TP issues, because there are other threads dedicated to that.
DRK lacks burst, but we don't need it because our Souleater/C&S have real high potencies when paired with Dark Arts.
So let me actually get into why I created this thread. Since the lack of burst, as long as you get into your rotation as quickly as possible you should easily be able to maintain whatever DPS you can do right off the bat. The discussions I have seen about DRK opener have been relying on opening with a Dark Arts Carve and Spit so Dark Arts will be back up for the first Souleater.
So what I have found to happen, won't actually increase your DPS of your opener, but it will increase your available MP and I believe is the reason why I could Dark Arts literally every single ender of my rotation for 3mins before I started getting low. So far as best as I can tell (on PS4, so can't parse but have had some parsers give me their feedback and confirm what I say looks like it is happening), this is what I'm doing and what's important will be in bold type:
Scourge > (oGCD) Blood Weapon > Hard Slash > (oGCD) Plunge > Syphon Strike > (oGCD) Dark Arts > (oGCD) Carve and Spit > Souleater > (oGCD) Salted Earth
Technically, my opener clips a half of a GCD by using Dark Arts and Carve and Spit before going into Souleater. But the reason behind this, is because the Dark Arts buff hasn't completely fallen off yet. As much as I've tested this, if you pull off your transitions as quickly and cleanly as possible: Dark Arts is affecting the potency of C&S and Souleater with the same application of Dark Arts.
Without the proper tool to gauge and monitor this myself, I ask if fellow DRK's that can use these tools confirm or deny. If this is true, you can save about 1800MP off your opener by just not starting with the DA/C&S and waiting to pair it with the first Souleater. I am pretty sure it's true though, because I know what the moves are supposed to hit for. I used this technique while on the training dummy last night and critted both of them back-to-back = C&S 2750 Souleater 2390, with the same single application of Dark Arts.
Being able to pair them together like this allows you to not use 1800MP out of a normal rotation solely dedicated to getting C&S back out as soon as possible. You are only ever going to "not use it" for a max of 2 GCD's to get it to pair again, and I've noticed that it actually lines up pretty well so you don't have to really wait at all to be able to combo it.
Would love to hear some feedback and see if others are experiencing this as well.
Dark Arts Trick >:)
Printable View
-
06-30-2015, 02:36 AMJayCommonDark Arts Trick >:)
-
06-30-2015, 02:43 AMRhaja
So my question is, can you do this with our other oGCD abilities? Because I want to try this out but I need the monies from my job ;__;
-
06-30-2015, 02:47 AMKiteless
I figured this was already pretty commonly known. For what it's worth, I do actually quite enjoy waiting for just the right moment to unleash everything at once. Hopefully this bug ends up becoming a feature.
-
06-30-2015, 03:11 AMJayCommonIt's definitely possible. I only check forums while I'm at work and I took a week off when HW released, so I was just playing the game lol. The few DRK-related threads I have seen here on the official forums has several variations of the same opener being used and commented on, however I haven't seen anyone make mention of this nuance. It's also why it doesn't make sense to use DA/C&S at the beginning because it is just a colossal MP waste, which I have seen several people advise others to do. So if it's widely known, maybe...but definitely not fully known by all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiteless
The tooltip suggests this is broken, though. It isn't supposed to work this way, but for now we can take advantage of it :)
From the reddit post I just read it looks like this will work with many other skills, but it was only noticeable to me (without a parse) just by seeing my numbers from the damage based moves. It seems like it has something to do with a longer animation being clipped by a shorter one and the game thinking you had Dark Arts up for both seperately...or something along those lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhaja
-
06-30-2015, 03:17 AMRhaja
And watch this be patched well before WAR's getting crit heals while in Raw Intuition XD
Welp, got something to look forward to playing with in a few hours -
06-30-2015, 03:24 AMKiteless
For what it's worth, even with this little trick, we can barely keep up with WAR damage as it is for very long. And after that, our damage goes so low as to be non-existent, thanks to our horrible resource management tools. If they were to actually take this away, there'd need to be some serious gains made to make up for it.
-
06-30-2015, 03:35 AMNektulos-Tuor
This sounds like an exploit, and not something I would rely on. =(
-
06-30-2015, 03:37 AMJayCommonWhen I heard that worked I lost it. That just sounds so conceptually broken it's not even funny, but it's awesome that it works like that and I hope they don't change it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhaja
Yeah, Unmend/Unchain while DPSing is so bad, and you can't even do that if you are going all out with your Dark Arts usage (like you should if DPSing) because you're going to be low on MP right when you run out of TP. We just need an Invigorate. We obviously won't get to cross class with DRG because of BfB, but we need something equivalent to Invig on DRK or we won't be flexible enough to ever be an off-tank. I love the versatility of DRK and being able to pull off both tank aspects efficiently, but TP is definitely an issue that needs addressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiteless
-
06-30-2015, 04:40 AMDittoSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHQuote:
Originally Posted by JayCommon
Fairly sure it's a bug, but if SE takes it away from us, we'll be doing less DPS than we are now, and that will turn into a problem. We're in a sweet spot with damage, just below War, and idk where compared to a Pld cause Pld seems all over the place. A lot of people know about this, C&S has a long enough animation before the hit actually occurs to where you can animation cancel it straight into souleater and land both of them so close together that Dark Arts will effect both hits. -
06-30-2015, 04:51 AMZanzhizExaverion
Double Dark Arts is currently a bug, you can replicate it by performing two actions very quickly, the first one you click has to be a LONG animation and the second a SHORT animation. For example you can go Dark Passenger > Souleater / Power Slash > Dark Dance/Mind / Havent tested Carve and Spit because I'm only 54, and I assume this will be patched out in the next balance patch.
-
06-30-2015, 04:55 AMKiteless
And with it, not only will we be bad at tanking, but also bad at dealing damage. Everyone get ready to level your WARs, you'll need 'em.
-
06-30-2015, 10:45 AMLorielle
Not sure if I'm comfortable with the idea that we need to use a bug to do something we should be doing out the gate. >w>
-
06-30-2015, 11:20 AMKiteless
For what it's worth, this bug actually is pretty fun to use. Waiting for the right moment at the end of your Soul Eater combo to let lose with Carve and Spit and Soul Eater at the same time for some huge damage just feels great. If they changed the official description/effect to incorporate this as a feature instead of "correcting" it, I'd be all kinds of happy. It's a happy little accident.
-
06-30-2015, 11:37 AMXenosan
If tonight's hotfix corrects it I'm blaming you :<
But yea I agree that it's a 'working as unintended' feature.
( Dark Arts > Dark Passanger > Souleater ) every 30 seconds
( Dark Arts > Carve and Split > Souleater ) every 60 seconds
It's actually quite a nice way to spread out Dark Arts, helps with MP management and combo priority. -
06-30-2015, 11:39 AMBadRNG
I thought this was widely known too.
My hope is SE doesn't, or perhaps cannot, fix this. It seems to be due to how the game handles using effects, where they do not apply until the end of the animation. In this case the effect is actually negative (losing DA), but it's not much different to the delay you see in something like Benediction or Hallowed Ground. They never fixed those so it'd be nice if they let it be, for once their crappy effects system is actually working for the player rather than against them. -
06-30-2015, 06:52 PMshinros
Oh they just fixed this in today's patch so no more using two skills for one dark arts. That's why I did not bother getting used to it or using it for that matter.
-
06-30-2015, 07:06 PMAlacran
Never used it, doesn't matter. To all those with such fast clears on EX runs, skill/ mechanic bug abuse and general stupidity, congrats now you can have that hard core content you all so desperately whine for while looking for your next cheat through content.
-
06-30-2015, 07:10 PMEdmond_Guilford
"・An issue wherein the dark knight action "Dark Arts" would apply its effect to multiple actions used in sequence."
Welp. -
06-30-2015, 07:22 PMJahaudantBahahaha. Saving 1 Dark Arts worth of MP every 45 seconds didn't carry anyone's party through EX runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacran
It was more a QOL / convenience thing. Now we have a figure out how to optimally DA both CAS and SE. Also, DA Dark Passenger is probably never going to happen again. -
06-30-2015, 07:32 PMKiteless...Yeah, this little trick never carried anything. Anything we beat with it, we could beat without it. It never made our tanking any better or more reliable, it just brought our damage up to a level that was competitive with WAR and PLD. Now we'll probably end up a decent bit lower. All it means is that we can just take Dark Passenger right off our toolbars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alacran
-
06-30-2015, 11:48 PMdank1
Thanks guy for pointing this out to them
-
07-01-2015, 12:17 AMMuchmidget
I saw someone in another thread claim they broke Abyssal Drain and Dark passenger as the DA effects only happen on the first mob hit. Anyone that can confirm this?
-
07-01-2015, 12:18 AMJayCommonYeah, no problem. The thread on reddit from a week ago surely didn't garner any attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by dank1
I would rather play with a job that is working as intended and not exploiting the shit out of a broken skill, but that's just me. Guess you will just have to learn to get good if you relied on this bugged application for damage. I, on the other hand, will be just fine tanking every single piece of the hardest content available in the game.
We still need TP regen though. -
07-01-2015, 12:21 AMMarvethIt's been confirmed and is being reported by numerous players in the bug report forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muchmidget
-
07-01-2015, 12:50 AMAvalon_AlbrookNo one needed it or relied on it. While we had it, it was fun as hell to use. Doing serious burst damage on Ravana EX with some lucky crits meant getting two Souleaters, a Carve and Spit and a Dark Passenger all under just two Dark Arts for a TON of damage. Getting a 2k+ hit, a 2.5k+ hit, a 3.5k hit and another 2.5k+ hit all in 4 GCDs (accounting for building the combo back up) felt beautiful to see. Not necessary, but glorious all the same. RIP that burst.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCommon
-
07-01-2015, 12:54 AMDittoMy god you have the perfect attitude for a Paladin.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCommon
-
07-01-2015, 01:05 AMJayCommonYeah, it was a ton of damage and it was also obviously broken. I didn't say I didn't have fun with it. I even said in my first response to have fun with it while it lasts, because...again...it was obviously broken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon_Albrook
Not exactly sure what that is supposed to mean...but if the person I directed that too honestly thinks that my post...which was created 11hrs after the notice for maintenance came up on the Forums caused them to "notice this bug" and fix it... he can receive that attitude indefinitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditto
-
07-01-2015, 01:05 AMRiastradI'm pretty sure he was talking about the Ravana EX clears that took advantage of the auto attack only bug. Just forgot to separate the thoughts is all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jahaudant
But hey, who am I to judge the people that took advantage? (j/k, I'm going to judge those people harshly). -
07-01-2015, 01:06 AMXenosansmhQuote:
Originally Posted by JayCommon
Some potency math worth looking at post hotfix:
GCD + oGCD = Potency || (DA): Dark Arts buff, DP: Dark Passenger, C&S: Carve & Split
------------------
Delirium + (DA) C&S = 730
Delirium + (DA) DP = 530
Souleater + (DA) C&S = 710
Souleater + (DA) DP = 510
(DA) Souleater + C&S = 500
(DA) Souleater + DP = 550
------------------
C&S every 60 seconds, DP every 30 seconds
------------------
For maximum potency of DP/C&S/DA
Use Dark Passenger with buffed Souleater every 30 seconds
Use buffed C&S every 60 seconds with Delirium
...
edit: Just for comparison's sake
(DA) Souleater + (DA) C&S = 950
(DA) Souleater + (DA) DP = 650
730 from 950 (No longer with a 400 potency self heal)
550 from 650 (No longer Blind debuff)
Ouch
More important than DPS is the fact we've lost a 400 potency self heal whenever C&S comes off CD (have to settle with 260 if any, and that's a dps loss)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenosan
More reason now than before they need to give some enhancement to Souleater (Ignore Grit penalty? HP absorb over max health?) or make the 'if/or' of buffing C&S justified (Keep MP rejuv when buffed, or unbuffed C&S yield twice/triple the amount of MP it currently does & reset Dark Arts recast). -
07-01-2015, 01:21 AMJayCommonJokes aside, that would still only be an off-tank rotation. Your not going to want to pass up on a self-heal if your MT for 20 potency. Maybe unless there is no Monk in the group I guess. And honestly, unless they give us some kind of tool to regain our TP none of off-tank rotations based solely off damage matter because we won't be taken into content as an off-tank over a warrior when they see us spamming enmity MP moves after 3mins :\Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenosan
And yeah yeah I see your post from page 2. I can be the scapegoat in your eyes if you want, but this is still true regardless:
i will also smhQuote:
Originally Posted by JayCommon
-
07-01-2015, 01:27 AMHeavensSword
Idk if people were being sarcastic blaming Jay for them patching this, but he isn't responsible lol.
People submitted bugs for this issue. Here is one that is in the Accepted Bugs forum: DA Bug post -
07-01-2015, 01:32 AMRiastradAye, people found this day 2 of early access. Shouting it in the forelands and laughing about how this was going to get fixed. If anyone wants to blame someone, blame SE for not catching it in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavensSword
That said, Dark Knights do need a buff. Just like how Warrior needed one (and got it) when they were the worse of the 2 tanks. It'll happen.