Accuracy bonus while I'm cleric stance?

Any one think that giving 15% Accuracy boost while in cleric stance is broken? Should get the tank treatment for their stances.

Well considering that healers are going to need to dps, and most healer gear I see gives minimal acc. I find it appropriate to give them some sort of chance to hit while dpsing. Like in coil.

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Originally Posted by melflomil

Any one think that giving 15% Accuracy boost while in cleric stance is broken? Should get the tank treatment for their stances.

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How is 15% accuracy boost broken on a healer? Also is this the new whm trait replacing proshell or something inherit to cleric stance itself?

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Originally Posted by Divine_Ultima

How is 15% accuracy boost broken on a healer? Also is this the new whm trait replacing proshell or something inherit to cleric stance itself?

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Some people love to complain. So I asked a question to appeal to both type of answers.

Healers absolutely need more accuracy. Especially WHM, who doesn't have any guaranteed hits.

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Originally Posted by melflomil

Some people love to complain. So I asked a question to appeal to both type of answers.

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I see, I read it as you stating this was going to happen and it could be broken (its late). To answer the original question, nah its not broken at all, especially on whm's.

We need it. ._. Healer gear has basically none and aside from melding or your relic, there's no way to really get much of it.

My poor WHM has 412 ACC. What would have been my statics first t13 kill, we were at 0.2% and the tank and I were the only ones alive while he was casting enrage. Guess who missed Stone II 10 times in a row from the rear? Dis bitch. At least SCH has some attacks that are guaranteed to hit. WHM is really short-handed when it comes to DPS in end-game.

[EDIT] My static SCH usually does 300-400 sustained DPS a run while I usually do under 100. Part of it is because I do a majority of the healing so he can DPS and the other part is the fact that missing is so likely as a WHM.

For those who don't do Coil, turn 1 requires a minimum of 432 accuracy, while turn 13 requires at least 515. At i130, my WHM only has 412 accuracy which isn't even enough to hit 100% of the time in turn 1 which was designed to be run in i70-i90 gear. So, yes, for those of us who do Coil, it is a very significant issue.

I miss when soloing B rank hunts.
Cleric should have come with an ACC bonus long ago.

SHHHHH.

It should have been like this to begin with! Healers never miss attacks in WoW and it makes things so much less frustrating since our gear doesn't have hit on it.

If I never see a miasma or energy drain miss again it will be too soon.

I wonder if I am doing something wrong here. I usually NEVER miss on my whm or it is so rare it doesn't bother me.

Tanks are getting the Accuracy bonus because tanks are forced by design to attack from the front. Healers are not. In fact, healer dps was never part of the consideration in tuning raid encounters. You are free to dps, and if you feel you want to emphasize your dps, you are free to stack Accuracy. But it will not be given to healers because it was never part of the healer's design.

For open world content and regular dungeons, existing Accuracy on gear should be more than enough.

I don't play a healer much but this is a great idea!. +1

Somehow I agree to have accuracy for cleric stance, but I'm afraid in the future there's gonna be complain again about "HEALER USING CLERIC STANCE IN COIL ALL TIME AND DIDN'T DO THEIR JOB WELL" IMO.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Tanks are getting the Accuracy bonus because tanks are forced by design to attack from the front. Healers are not. In fact, healer dps was never part of the consideration in tuning raid encounters. You are free to dps, and if you feel you want to emphasize your dps, you are free to stack Accuracy. But it will not be given to healers because it was never part of the healer's design.

For open world content and regular dungeons, existing Accuracy on gear should be more than enough.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuhgHzuPYiI

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Tanks are getting the Accuracy bonus because tanks are forced by design to attack from the front. Healers are not. In fact, healer dps was never part of the consideration in tuning raid encounters. You are free to dps, and if you feel you want to emphasize your dps, you are free to stack Accuracy. But it will not be given to healers because it was never part of the healer's design.

For open world content and regular dungeons, existing Accuracy on gear should be more than enough.

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The way things are originally designed is not always the way things work out. It's important for a company to be flexible and go with the tide, not against it.

Accuracy is a dumb stat and needs removed. I think <3 lol
Missing period needs removed.

One of the main reasons each tank stance is getting an accuracy boost is to cover the difference between OT rear/flank accuracy needs and MT front accuracy needs. Tanks either had to much when OT, hurting DpS stats, or not enough while MT, hurting their ability to generate and maintain enmity.

Healer gear design paradigms may be changing to account for the new expectation of Healer DpS in Hard content such as Alexander HM. Healer gear may end up with the needed accuracy without requiring a bonus from a stance.

I've never had any accuracy issues on my White Mage, but then I don't run coil. I can't imagine healers getting many opportunities to DPS in difficult content either, since they'd be spending more time healing their party so honestly the accuracy seems more of a nice bonus than a necessary addition.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

I've never had any accuracy issues on my White Mage, but then I don't run coil. I can't imagine healers getting many opportunities to DPS in difficult content either, since they'd be spending more time healing their party so honestly the accuracy seems more of a nice bonus than a necessary addition.

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The problem is exactly what you said: you don't run serious endgame content. Healer DPS is extremely helpful, and very important when you're pushing new content for your raid. It allows you to push phases faster, bypass certain mechanics, and beat a fight before the enrage timer. There are many opportunities when the damage output is so minor that the one or both of the healers can and should be DPSing. The problem is that shit accuracy means any spell that deals direct damage (so everything other than Bio and Bio 2) can and will miss as a a healer.

There's a reason WoW removed accuracy. It's not a fun stat. It's a stat you hit the cap for, and then dance around trying to keep it from raising or lowering while you get other stats that actually matter. It often means making sub-optimal secondary stat choices simply to ensure you don't miss.

Though, I will agree that accuracy in general is not a fun stat, since it's essentially a "Tax" stat for coils, I still don't think there should be an accuracy buff to Cleric Stance. I'm more against the "WHM should get more things for free" mentality their community seems to have- in general healers aren't focused on DPSing. It's nice you can, but it's not a necessity in any party content, and if you want to DPS more effectively, you should have to build for it like everyone else; not just get freebies so you can accomplish a role that's not necessary in the first place.

Mind you, I form that opinion from current content. It may change by level 60! And I hope it does for the better. You may not need a buff in accuracy to DPS like you want, regardless.

Unless the tank stance is literally 100% accuracy their will still be disparity in accuracy needs between front and sides.
Tank gear needs to have some accuracy almost like a gauge, otherwise you could just get accuracy-less crafted gear and overmeld it with pure tank stats and be relatively way too strong
throw in accuracy needs and all of a sudden the higher level tank gear becomes necessary for threat management, having a built in boost just lets you divert some of those stats to more tank oriented ones

Healers on the other hand are meant to heal with the vast majority of their time but they also have some debuffs and moments where doing damage as best they can might be necessary.
It just makes sense for healer offensive spells to have a built in never miss for mechanics sake, honestly doesn't even need to be tied to cleric stance
the only one that this would even cause issues for is scholar since they share skills with a dps yet somehow they're the one that already has it

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Originally Posted by Zaft

The way things are originally designed is not always the way things work out. It's important for a company to be flexible and go with the tide, not against it.

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There is no tide. The design itself included the freedom for healers to contribute dps. It was deliberately left open as an option. Now if Crusader Stance gets an Accuracy bonus, it could be taken to mean an official sanction to the notion that healers "should" dps during raid encounters.

And this freedom has two sides. On the one side, it means you are free to dps as a healer. On the reverse side, it means you are free to "not dps" as a healer. That freedom of choice is part of the design, and giving an accuracy bonus most likely will result in players picking up the wrong notions.

Of course, it can be argued that as an option, it makes sense to give the Accuracy bonus. But even now, people are already mistakenly claiming that the bare existence of the Crusader stance means healers are supposed to contribute dps.

So no, unless Yoshi-P takes a turn on his view of things, healers won't be getting an Accuracy bonus. It is as important to protect a play style choice as it is to promote another.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

moments where doing damage as best they can might be necessary.

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It is already revealed by Yoshi-P himself that all raid encounters are tuned with absolutely zero healer dps. They deliberately left the option open for healers to do dps and help an under-geared party clear content that otherwise is not supposed to be cleared, but that is left open for the top players chasing world firsts. Not for the average player.

So by design, there is no moments where healers doing damage becomes "necessary".

I'm not completely against healers getting an accuracy bonus. But I do like to see the playstyle of healers just focusing on healing left open, as is the original design intent.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

It is already revealed by Yoshi-P himself that all raid encounters are tuned with absolutely zero healer dps. They deliberately left the option open for healers to do dps and help an under-geared party clear content that otherwise is not supposed to be cleared, but that is left open for the top players chasing world firsts. Not for the average player.

So by design, there is no moments where healers doing damage becomes "necessary".

I'm not completely against healers getting an accuracy bonus. But I do like to see the playstyle of healers just focusing on healing left open, as is the original design intent.

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Your just reinforcing the same thing I said taken to a more extreme viewpoint
If healers are designed to never do dps why put little breadcrumbs of accuracy all over high end healing gear to begin with?
Wasted stats for 100% of what they are meant to do

Healers were not designed to never do dps. The design was "to let the healers themselves decide".

The reason I don't think it's such a good idea, is because people are already getting the wrong idea, saying that healers are supposed to dps.

But yes, I agree that getting the Accuracy bonus on Crusader does reinforce the freedom of choice. I'm only wary of it because of the back lash of people who will claim, "ha! See? This means healers are supposed to do dps! Noob healer not doing dps should L2P!"

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Healers were not designed to never do dps. The design was "to let the healers themselves decide".

The reason I don't think it's such a good idea, is because people are already getting the wrong idea, saying that healers are supposed to dps.

But yes, I agree that getting the Accuracy bonus on Crusader does reinforce the freedom of choice. I'm only wary of it because of the back lash of people who will claim, "ha! See? This means healers are supposed to do dps! Noob healer not doing dps should L2P!"

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It's more of a "why stand around doing nothing when healing is minimal when you could be throwing out some damage on the mob instead of watching Netflix". If constant healing is needed, then healer DPS isn't expected, or learning a fight. But if a stone skin and a regen can keep the tank alive for a while, then theres no reason not to DPS.

yeah they should get ore acc while in cleric stance

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Originally Posted by Zfz

For open world content and regular dungeons, existing Accuracy on gear should be more than enough.

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Not at all. When I did Making Waves to unlock CT, my attacks as WHM kept missing 99 % of the time...

As long as I can DPS reliably in endgame content with my SCH with a 90-100% chance of hitting I'm fine. Whether it's via accuracy added from a relic weapon and food, or an accuracy passive bonus from cleric stance I don't care. I don't like twiddling thumbs in endgame content when I know the boss is gonna be autoattacking for the next 10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Healers were not designed to never do dps. The design was "to let the healers themselves decide".

The reason I don't think it's such a good idea, is because people are already getting the wrong idea, saying that healers are supposed to dps.

But yes, I agree that getting the Accuracy bonus on Crusader does reinforce the freedom of choice. I'm only wary of it because of the back lash of people who will claim, "ha! See? This means healers are supposed to do dps! Noob healer not doing dps should L2P!"

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That reasoning is poor. I could as well say that tanks are supposed to tank and completely be against any offensive tool they are given because if they were given one, they'd be automatically blamed to death if they didn't use it (lol PLD not switching to Sword Oath while OTing you noob! <- this can happen too you know?). You take your reasoning to extreme levels and you end up deleting every single DPS spell from healers because god forbid them if they have a DPS spell and do not use it LoL (random hint: SCHs can DPS with Bio II, Bio and Shadow Flare already with 0 accuracy, so if you want to start blaming them for not DPSing, you don't have to wait SE to give them extra accuracy).

Healer gear so far is absolutely shafted of accuracy.
I'm still scratching my head on the acc boost for tanks, because I sure never had a problem hitting any accuracy requirements so far.
But if healers are getting it, good for them.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

It is already revealed by Yoshi-P himself that all raid encounters are tuned with absolutely zero healer dps.

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Which is one of the reasons they were cleared faster than he thought they would. Yoshi also said that Alex Savage will be tuned with healer DPS in mind.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I'm still scratching my head on the acc boost for tanks

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well for tanks it's a nice idea though 15% is way too much considering how you have to gear for flank anyway when you want to dps when not main tanking.

for healers you would need a boost of 25% on cleric's though if you go by current content to hit the cap...

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Which is one of the reasons they were cleared faster than he thought they would. Yoshi also said that Alex Savage will be tuned with healer DPS in mind.

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Truely I am concerned about it though.
I don't want good healers being pressured to have X DPS from people who they are cleaning up after. (Failed mitigations/dodges/what have you)

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

well for tanks it's a nice idea though 15% is way too much considering how you have to gear for flank anyway when you want to dps when not main tanking.

for healers you would need a boost of 25% on cleric's though if you go by current content to hit the cap...

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You'd still want front accuracy for most fights regarding adds or an emergency unexpected tank swap. Oh t13, you cruel mistress...

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Originally Posted by Niqote

Truely I am concerned about it though.
I don't want good healers being pressured to have X DPS from people who they are cleaning up after. (Failed mitigations/dodges/what have you)

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Sounds like the healer in the scenario you described isn't playing with a good team.

In general, it takes a good team to clear hard content. (Which is what Alexander Savage is supposedly going to be.)

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Sounds like the healer in the scenario you described isn't playing with a good team.

In general, it takes a good team to clear hard content. (Which is what Alexander Savage is supposedly going to be.)

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It's a vague representation. And its about the majority ^^
Actually... personally I will not have the problem. But I worry for others if this becomes a trend that flows into other content too.

But you are right. Alex sounds like its supposed to be harder. So perhaps it is unwarranted worry!

There's a reason why I put crit/accuracy on my scholar relic...

The problem with depending on healer DPS is that some groups start to expect it. especially out of SCH, so long as people do not forgot that a healer is that just, a HEALER. dps comes second and always optional. and it's mostly elitist or people who need healers to pick up their slack to expect them to dps out of nessassity, even so far as to saying follish things like"you need to dps as healer"

If the new content has healer dps in mind, this will only further make this a thing.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

SHHHHH.

It should have been like this to begin with! Healers never miss attacks in WoW and it makes things so much less frustrating since our gear doesn't have hit on it.

If I never see a miasma or energy drain miss again it will be too soon.

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You must be new there then.

I remember a wipe in Ulduar because cleanse was resisted and I couldn't remove Fusion Punch and our tank exploded.

Heals/attacks being resisted (miss is physical hits only until very recently) was a thing.

For tanks, a tank-stance bonus makes sense. Right now a tank has to have accuracy on most of their gear to hit the cap and, while it's not too hard to hit, it really restricts gearing sometimes. Making it so they just need flank makes a bunch of sense. OT at melee cap, hit tank stance to go MT at front cap. And if you want to try MT stance dancing you need to build in more accuracy.

I don't think cleric stance needs a bonus, I think they should just get more accuracy. Perhaps not to cap, but something more reasonable that the current situation.
Additionally, there needs to be some way to even out Astrologian/WHM against Scholar. BioI/II's 100% hit rate is such a huge advantage.