RIP Astrologian

Can't switch stances in battle. GG.

dear anyone who does any 24 man raids 10% damage taken will always be on the mt's :3 sincerely someone who just wants to watch the world burn.

hm its not as bad as you think
just pick the stance thats needed to fill whats missing
got a sch? pure healer stance
got a whm? barrier stance

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Originally Posted by Kukajoo

hm its not as bad as you think
just pick the stance thats needed to fill whats missing
got a sch? pure healer stance
got a whm? barrier stance

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Less fun than dynamically altering battle posture.

Really bummed about this design-choice, honestly.

Sad to hear it, but also fine with it.

Completely fine with it. I'll wait until I get to actually play the class before I start calling it dead. Though that seems to be the minority opinion on these forums no matter what class or change you're talking about......

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

Less fun than dynamically altering battle posture.

Really bummed about this design-choice, honestly.

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honestly the fact astralogian can do both is already really strong borderline OP
i agree with squares decision to disallow stance change mid combat it feels like it would really balance it out.
and if they could switch stances mid combat could you imagine the pressure the party would place on them? expecting them to be some wonderful do all fix all?

My luck, my AST will constantly draw the card that RAISES damage to the group! haha

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

Less fun than dynamically altering battle posture.

Really bummed about this design-choice, honestly.

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Exactly, if I wanted to WHM or SCH i'd choose either or but to be able to swap between them on one job would've been fun

OP, please give me your time machine so I can go back to a point where RIP used to mean something.

Ok 1st they said u can change with a long cooldown and now no change. The guy from reddit said a lot of stuff is not even finalized so take it as a grain of salt

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Originally Posted by Barimu

Exactly, if I wanted to WHM or SCH i'd choose either or but to be able to swap between them on one job would've been fun

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Instead you get to be SCH-esque or WHM-esque for any given battle. SCHs and WHMs don't have that option.

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Originally Posted by Kukajoo

Honestly the fact astralogian can do both is already really strong borderline OP...

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Nah, plenty of ways to balance & design for it.

They're a healer and FFXI Corsair rolled into one, so I'm okay if they can't switch stance in battle. Having two of these guys is better than having 2 WHMs or 2 SCHs because one Astro can switch to make sure they cover both roles.

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Originally Posted by Kukajoo

could you imagine the pressure the party would place on them? expecting them to be some wonderful do all fix all?

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How would this be a departure from healer status quo?

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Originally Posted by Kukajoo

i agree with squares decision to disallow stance change mid combat it feels like it would really balance it out.

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Pretty much. It'd be overpowered if they could just switch on a whim unless the skills were watered down.

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and if they could switch stances mid combat could you imagine the pressure the party would place on them? expecting them to be some wonderful do all fix all?

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Isn't this pretty much what healer life is anyway? :3

On the other hand, it means the two stances can have a real difference. If you are allowed to switch in battle, then every skill of the one stance must be balanced against every skill of the other stance as well. That would be very complicated and will result in too much of a variance in player performance, meaning the job as a whole becomes too difficult to balance.

Source?

Seriously, guys, information is spread all over the place at the moment. Is it too much to ask that threads link to sources? :(

Why are we telling AST to RIP when it's not even out yet? All because of stances? Really?

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

How would this be a departure from healer status quo?

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Isn't this pretty much what healer life is anyway? :3

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because astralogian is a new healing class with alot of intricacies that we don't understand yet
at least most understand the abilities and limitations of what a whm and sch can and cant do right now.
but astralogian can cover both of what each can do to an extent. im not saying healers as of now receive no pressure at all
but we just dont understand astralogian and i feel there are going to be many overexpecting what its going to be able to do

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

How would this be a departure from healer status quo?

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Because the AST would then be expected to provide both the large Heals (WHM mode) as well as the barriers (SCH mode).
At the same time.
All the time.

Having it without a restriction would mean the AST has to be balanced around its ability to provide both at once.
It would mean neither aspect of the AST would feel particularly powerful.

Amusingly, having the swap mechanic unusable in combat actually plays to the lore of the AST anyway, since the AST would simply read the future to determine which stance they need to be in for any given fight :P

I would not however, be against some form of really long cooldown that lets you switch modes in combat.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Source?

Seriously, guys, information is spread all over the place at the moment. Is it too much to ask that threads link to sources? :(

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I agree with this. I feel like if Astro not only heals less than the two other healers but now also can't change stances in battle then they are at a strong disadvantage. Because of this, I'm finding the information a little hard to believe and really would like to see a source. :/

Man, I effing hate seeing these RIP threads.

Stop it.

Seriously.

EDIT: You gods damned drama queen.

The way the healers seem to be designed now are like this.

SCH=Shield (shield and pet buffing)
WHM=Regen (Main Gimmick is heavy healing)
AST=Shield or Regen (Main gimmick are cards)

Rather than try to define AST as both or one or the other they decided to make it a switch either or and through that push it's focus on the cards for potency.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

I agree with this. I feel like if Astro not only heals less than the two other healers but now also can't change stances in battle then they are at a strong disadvantage. Because of this, I'm finding the information a little hard to believe and really would like to see a source. :/

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Imagine if a WHM had Adloq and Succor in addition to Medica/Medica II and Cure II+III.

Be kind of OP right?
But ... If the WHM had to choose, per fight, whether to have Succor/Adloq or Cure II/Medica it would not be so bad, right? Becomes a style choice.

That's the sort of position the AST is going to be in. It will have the opportunity to tailor its healing style per encounter.
I can well imagine using Barrier mode for fights that have a lot of unfocused AoE but switching it to WHM mode for more bursty bosses.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Imagine if a WHM had Adloq and Succor in addition to Medica/Medica II and Cure II+III.

Be kind of OP right?
But ... If the WHM had to choose, per fight, whether to have Succor/Adloq or Cure II/Medica it would not be so bad, right? Becomes a style choice.

That's the sort of position the AST is going to be in. It will have the opportunity to tailor its healing style per encounter.
I can well imagine using Barrier mode for fights that have a lot of unfocused AoE but switching it to WHM mode for more bursty bosses.

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If the potency is less then no, it's not. The actual potency is said to be lowered if you read what I said. It's not confirmed as far as me actually seeing it of course but even the live streamer from earlier said it was and it's something that's been going all over the net for a while.

Edit: It depends really on how low the potency is of course but so far, if it's too low then stance changing being limited down as well is going to be a lot of limits to the job. :/

Can we please have a source on this info? I'm trying to find it in that journalist's AMA, but I'm not seeing it.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

If the potency is less then no, it's not. The actual potency is said to be lowered if you read what I said. It's not confirmed as far as me actually seeing it of course but even the live streamer from earlier said it was and it's something that's been going all over the net for a while.

Edit: It depends really on how low the potency is of course but so far, if it's too low then stance changing being limited down as well is going to be a lot of limits to the job. :/

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Except its not really a good idea for a healer to basically have 10 different low potency heals.
You'd be spending your whole combat time just slamming spell after spell after spell trying to keep up.

Having it a pre fight decision lets each mode be powerful and unique in its own right without the need to worry about how powerful it'd be to have access to Cure II and Adloq at the same time.
Hell, they may even add a third mode thats all about Regen effects.

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Originally Posted by dragonflie

Can we please have a source on this info? I'm trying to find it in that journalist's AMA, but I'm not seeing it.

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He stated it in his twitch stream, idk the exact time as I watched it live

info that slycer translated from a game watch article!


http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...vent-5-18-5-21)

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

Less fun than dynamically altering battle posture.

Really bummed about this design-choice, honestly.

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I'm actually happy with it. Something different as you need to choose which stance will be more valuable for the fight at hand. Also, I think what Kukajoo said is spot on, though I'm sure there will be exceptions depending on the fight.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Except its not really a good idea for a healer to basically have 10 different low potency heals.
You'd be spending your whole combat time just slamming spell after spell after spell trying to keep up.

Having it a pre fight decision lets each mode be powerful and unique in its own right without the need to worry about how powerful it'd be to have access to Cure II and Adloq at the same time.
Hell, they may even add a third mode thats all about Regen effects.

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Well, I think it could add an interesting change and if the potency is low enough but not too low (I do hope it's not super low.) then maybe it can just be something to just add some unique playstyle to healers. Right now, with no stance change and no potency matching out either healers, it makes Astro the lowest in bracket of healers before it's even released. You may as well burn the whole job concept in a fireplace and forget it even existed if they can't do a thing against the two healers because SCH + WHM would be more effective. @-@

( I still don't want to 100% believe either gestures till I see it myself though, but some sources on certain things would help confirm information better though as well as lay my seeds of doubts to rest. )

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Except its not really a good idea for a healer to basically have 10 different low potency heals...

...Having it a pre fight decision lets each mode be powerful and unique in its own right...

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That's not how it would work (or works). I mean, technically, I suppose... but it's essentially the same 'heal,' just converted into a shield.

It's no more interesting, it's a slight mechanical slant on the same spells.

Basically, the idea to have it toggle-able mid combat is much cooler:

Party is hurt, heal up in curative mode real fast; incoming big damage, toggle to barrier mode & prep; big damage taken, barrier's are down, toggle back to curative mode.

If healing only one or a few targets at a time, juggling these two healing-postures would be a very rich, dynamic experience & play very skillfully.

The way it would be balanced is just having the potency of either be less than that of both the WHM & SCH.

This would make it a very interesting mix of both healing styles in combat, with neither of the two's advanced HW mechanics, but instead cards to give it that added richness & complexity.

And you're off with regards to it creating more uniqueness if made a pre-fight decision...

It does the opposite. Basically, having it be predetermined means you're either stuck in WHM or SCH mode...

Sure you can afford that tiny bit of added potency for the inability to toggle back-and-forth mid combat... but you're losing that dynamic gameplay which' where much of the uniqueness would come from.

Having it predetermined actually waters it down, rather than enhancing it.

Not only that, having it toggle-able makes for a far more interesting 'supportive healer' type of role as AST could cake/layer on added, shared effects with the other healer-type mid fight.

Let me stack some barrier on your barrier, let me slather some regen on your regen... but wait! You're merely a WHM & everybody's topped off now, let me handle it from here... BARRIER'S FOR ALL!

Or, if you've got two AST's... think of the synergy two in-sync with one another could have... esp. if raid damage is mixed up, like half the group is 100% while the other half is mildly damaged.

"I got the regen's, you shield up the other half! Oh no, my barrier's got popped, switching out! Don't worry, I just healed em back up real quick--time to shield up with me bro!"

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Originally Posted by Barimu

He stated it in his twitch stream, idk the exact time as I watched it live

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At 1:18:20 he clearly says there's no cooldown on switching stances.

So I ask again. Source?

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

At 1:18:20 he clearly says there's no cooldown on switching stances.

So I ask again. Source?

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Rather he gives a clearer example of why he thinks Astro would be very valuable in battle and goes to say that inside the T13 fight with bahamut you would switch stance. He clearly says the healer could switch stance then aid the other healer in his example.

That's a few moments before your timer btw, but it'd be pretty misleading if he then turned to say well you can't stance switch in battle after using in a form of an example of astro being able to.

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

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The problem is, currently, a SCH handles damage preperation and the WHM handles restoration in large chunks.

If an AST could do both at once with nothing more than the press of a button, suddenly AST+AST becomes the best heal comp, period.

Why would you take a SCH when an AST provides the Barriers AND the big heals?
Why would you take a WHM when an AST provides the big heals AND the Barriers?

The answer is, you wouldn't. The AST would flat out replace both those jobs by being able to do two jobs worth of healing on their own.

It wouldn't make it dynamic at all.
Top off the group with WHM mode then switch to Barrier to apply shields, switch back to WHM mode.
Shields go down, damage is taken.
Heal up, switch to Barrier, reapply shields and then back to WHM mode.

Hardly dynamic.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

The problem is, currently, a SCH handles damage preperation and the WHM handles restoration in large chunks.

If an AST could do both at once with nothing more than the press of a button, suddenly AST+AST becomes the best heal comp, period.

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That assumes a lot. A large part of why people avoid SCH+SCH right now is because Galvanize doesn't stack at all, so what makes you think AST shields will stack? Especially given that SE's response to SCH/SCH not stacking is to let one of them go pure heal? And we've already been told they don't have the throughput of the other two classes, so taking two healers who don't have throughput would be a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

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Because Astro may not be able to provide big heals or heavy shielding with their barrier, it's like the RDM of the healers basically... It can do both but it's not great at either. .-.

Keep in mind that RDM never ever replaced BLM or WHM nor sword users just because they were able to do all three. Rather they were a side asset to them, much like astro would probably be with their cards.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

Because Astro may not be able to provide big heals or heavy shielding with their barrier, it's like the RDM of the healers basically... It can do both but it's not great at either. .-.

Keep in mind that RDM never ever replaced BLM or WHM nor sword users just because they were able to do all three. Rather they were a side asset to them, much like astro would probably be with their cards.

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No, AST will be able to replace them both, if not they would be useless and not balanced.

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Originally Posted by lololink

No, AST will be able to replace them both, if not they would be useless and not balanced.

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Just saying no they will be able to doesn't really help or explain anything... could I ask you to go further into your reasoning? :x

And to just explain what I see? I see two astro's being able to heal enough to get by but not better than WHMxSCH combo which means two astro healings would be with struggle in comparison to WHMxSCH and the only unique merit would be their cards. I personally would only be more concerned on matter of barrier stacking.

Together with either WHM or SCH I see them working a lot better because they can offer a nice card buff and then the affects the whm or sch's counterpart could offer in a miniature form e.g slightly weaker HoTs or Barriers.