How does FFXIV differ from other Japanese MMOs?

I read a post in the Otaku thread and rather than deal with that entire goobbue turd of a thread, I decided to post my question in its own thread. Someone mentioned that one of the biggest gripes of Japanese players was how Americanized this MMO is. So I wondered, in what ways does FFXIV differ from a traditional Japanese MMO? Are there some things they do better or worse?

My only MMO experience prior to FFXIV was with Tera, for about a year after its launch. I learned that Korean MMOs are heavily grind oriented and they don't mind RNG quite as much.

Just curious about the differences and perhaps some insights on what Japanese players want from FFXIV

JP players like more of a grind. if you ever played ffxi when it came out.. that is what they want

This game tends to be a more fast paced and reactionary based game play. They tend to be more used to the style of complex algorithms of mechanics. Something that usually required long hours of experimentation and theory crafting among a community to crack (kind of like a big puzzle to them).

In general, the complex approach can be more fun, but when more people get involved then it takes less time for everything to just wind down to a guide on what to do.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but for the most part the only other 'big' JP MMO i have ever known is FFXI, so there's not really much to compare it too.

The next best thing, would be korean MMO's and they do love a grind. I played lineage 2 before WoW, and that game was grind city. So much fun though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Codek

This game tends to be a more fast paced and reactionary based game play. They tend to be more used to the style of complex algorithms of mechanics. Something that usually required long hours of experimentation and theory crafting among a community to crack (kind of like a big puzzle to them).

In general, the complex approach can be more fun but when more people get involved, the less time it takes for everything to just wind down to a guide that gets produced a week later.

---

Seeing as how Titan was the first bit of reactionary difficulty for many players...

What would a more JP Titan look like? Would it rely more on gaols and defenses the players need to get around?

would be more about posistioning for better dps, buffing eachother and cordinating attacks, the 10min fight would be 20-30min and slow jazz played insted of rock

ff11 boss fight.. they want this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn7Jftx6l_A

I'd hardly call the mostly scripted fights to be reactionary. More about memorization.

Hello, I did reply your question in that other thread, but the short version of it that I can give you here, is that (among other things that go from housing to poor animations and "cheap" cutscenes), they are unhappy with vertical progression and to how the game doesn't really force you to "learn your job".

They made an example of how tanks tend to grind through FATEs up to 50 without never touching a low level dungeon, thus arriving to endgame with no real tanking experience whatsoever (FATEs is more of a whack-and-run system). They enjoyed the various and strategic mechanics from FFXI (and other MMOs I do not know), where jobs felt actually useful, and not just copies of each other just with different animations. Magic bursts, skillchains, in short... team work. They are not happy with how hand-holding the game is and of how easily players get to endgame before they've actually learned a thing.

In short, NAs.

when i lvl my tank class i onyl do dungeons cuz the fast ques. >.< so here we have jp saying its to easy and a whole thread about how its to hard for NA players (have to do story line oh no!). lol cant make anyone happy it seems.

Thank you for both of your answers, Bluevann. This seems related to the streamlined stats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverhope

when i lvl my tank class i onyl do dungeons cuz the fast ques. >.< so here we have jp saying its to easy and a whole thread about how its to hard for NA players (have to do story line oh no!). lol cant make anyone happy it seems.

---

If you are referring to the "jobs gated behind 2.55" thread, people are not complaining about doing the storyline. They are complaining about not being able to do the storyline as the new jobs.

I was under the impression the JP fandom didn't like the game as much as we do but then I just got back from Japan and I could buy time-cards for FFXIV in any convenience store but only a few carried the cards for the Japanese-only Dragon Quest X.

It may just be that the JP fandom has a pretty vocal complaints faction?

It would be cool if there was a contest where the players could design a boss battle. Harder to implement than the kick starters do, but a fan can dream.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

It would be cool if there was a contest where the players could design a boss battle. Harder to implement than the kick starters do, but a fan can dream.

---

Most people would just make coil 2.0 styled boss fights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

Seeing as how Titan was the first bit of reactionary difficulty for many players...

What would a more JP Titan look like? Would it rely more on gaols and defenses the players need to get around?

---

It would require more mechanics with resource management and maintaining the resources to survive the fight. Maybe using ice to slow attack speed so tanks can survive. Gaols would just be a mechanic that could diminish the raids ability to keep ice up. Also potentially a wall to stop players from getting punted off. Players will decide during the fight who they should break out of gaol and whose should stay to act as a barrier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverhope

ff11 boss fight.. they want this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn7Jftx6l_A

---

Ah man I miss this! I honestly REALLY miss gear swaps

I can't think of any other major JP MMO's other than FFXI and Phantasy Star Online and PSO2. Neither which are or were as popular as FFXIV.

As far as I can tell the major differences between this and FFXI is the speed of the game, which I don't believe is a factor simply because if you ever been to an Arcade in japan and watched them mash on Street fighter they love their twitch mechanics, or the size of the grind which in comparison to old FFXI you probably could level all jobs to 50 in FFXIV in the time it takes to get 1 to 75.

Another difference was the global servers but the JP/NA/EU generally kept to themselves in most cases, whereas this game tends to cram them together with the duty finder (even if partially isolated due to the 6 data centers)

You can't blame developers for bad player skill, the issue with tank's fate leveling to cap and sucking was most likely before the FATE exp nerf and Dungeon exp buff, but forcing tanks to run dungeons won't make a bad tank better, if you increased the grind to get to 50 it still wouldn't make a bad tank better (it might make a few quit the game before getting to endgame) but it doesn't fix the problem.

More likely than all the above is just the fact its the usual vocal minority, if you go and look at FFXIV reviews on any languages website you are likely to find almost every complaint under the sun from some other unsatisfied person.

FFXIV's success should indicate that it is hitting a rather big target audience and doing a good job at being a good game, but it's impossible to please everybody so there will always be someone somewhere who isn't getting the game they always wanted when they picked up FFXIV.

BTW strategic mechanics from FFXI:

Shameless plug from many years ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FJerome

It may just be that the JP fandom has a pretty vocal complaints faction?

---

Wait a minute - are you suggesting that in Japan, there's a loud vocal minority that complains at length on the forums?

Man, that's like a whole different culture over there! Nothing like our forums, amirite?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Firepower

snip[/URL]

---

Not gonna question your motives here, but you're wrong.

You just have to log in and ask the people around you, most will tell you, i'm done with the roulette, i'm done with the dailies, i'm done with my alex map, i'm capped for the week. Yes we play to be done with the game, SE managed to create a game which feels like a job, forcing us to play daily or weekly, and actually making us pay for it, and we do it, because, the world is awesome, it's lore, vanity, story, everything is good, the QoL of this game is awesome, but its main systems, combat, character customization and bosses are boring, yes perfect if you're a fan of arcade gaming, but this is not good for an MMO, even wow, a game i don't like, does it better in these fields.

So, don't say it's the vocal minority, because there are a lot of players that don't care at all about combat content, they do their duties and forget about it, players are bad because they don'r practice, and they don't do it because it's more annoying than fun, if you don't see thousands of groups completing coil, it's just because it's a pain.

So yes, the game is a financial success, because they keep the player-base playing and paying, but they fail to deliver "fun" to some of us.

Back on topic, this game is different from a JP MMO because of its priorities:

reward>grind>fun

I played FFXI for 8 years since it launched in NA -- got my AF3 +2 and all for WHM and NIN in Abyssea (hated how it made leveling so easy, esp. once people got some good atmas). However, even the 'ease' of Abyssea would be too difficult, I think, for most of the FF14 player base. I can't imagine people these days farming mats just to pop bosses that took 20 mins to fight and maybe losing to, after taking 40 mins or more to form the alliance - therefore getting no reward and no loot. God forbid trying to get a necessary atma (skill) using the correct elemental debuff in order to proc the correct light or using a slashing or blunt attack at the right time of the day....

I would LOVE for the concept of elemental weaknesses, debuffs, skill chains, and that kind of complexity to come back, but I doubt it would work with how FF14 is setup. I mean, most every difficult fight in this game is learning mechanics that never change, not working with your party to find the best strategy for taking out the bosses. Once you know the fight (memorize the mechanics), you can win. Just look at what happens when real teamwork is required (looking at Steps of Faith).

I can see why JPN feel FF14 is to Westernized because,to be honest, it is. Japanese like working together towards a common goal and working as a team to achieve victory, not just memorizing as a means to win. This is also why they would have preferred DF be server only, much like finding parties was in FFXI. It makes for an actual server community and people are more accountable for their 'reputation'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Snip.

---

I agree with you 100% Ive played both 11 and 14 from NA launch in both games I have always gone back to 11 because it is fun it has danger and unknown, I havnt even completed all of 2.1 yet in 14 because it just seems to much like a job and lacks any fun or bonding with groups that I do things with. I miss so many elements of 11 but I love how 14 looks and feel just seems it has lost so much. I have no idea why from 1.0 to 2.0 alot of good things vanished I want my magic weakness back makes no since how i can spam fire on fish and it does same damage as if i would zap it with thunder..... every FF game has had elemental weakness why the hell is this one have to change something that has worked for YEARS

Oh the feels....

http://i.imgur.com/dsLepOh.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Oh the feels....

http://i.imgur.com/dsLepOh.jpg

---

I have that as my desktop image XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Oh the feels....

http://i.imgur.com/dsLepOh.jpg

---

Such nostalgia lol. Can't lie, I definitely felt way more of a bond with people on FFXI than I do here, but once the cap rose it was too hard to keep up with it and balance full time work and part time photography. I am grateful that XIV is less of a time sink, but I'll never forget the relationships formed through the struggle in XI.

Long ago I was in a LS with that guy on Seraph. I think. I know it was one of the dude's who made a skillchain chart....

If there is one single aspect from FFXI that I wish they would bring back, it's cross player skillchain combos. They were fun, and the multiplicative damage bonuses made you more with a partner than you were by yourself. Evisceration + Tachi: Jinpu = DISTORTION FOR 1200 bonus damage woooo!

People complaining about FFXIV being "a job" remind me of:
EQ1 players saying raiding felt like "a job"
FFXI players saying the game felt like "a job"
Wow pl-wait...
Yeah there's a pattern here. Any game played for any length of time will begin to feel like "a job"
Log on, do daily thing #1392, raid, etc. It's the nature of the genre.

Well i played recently pso 2 so i can say the grind is way heavier than here and the rng is god aweful but i see less people complaining about it and just grinding all day. I played as a mage and i had to have a good reaction to evade everything because pretty much every attack could one shot me.
Character dressing and makeup combinations are almost limitless Many crossovers.

Also breast phisics! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9nwPK1nyI0 (this was a glitch in the beginning still cracks me up)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamein

Please correct me if I am wrong, but for the most part the only other 'big' JP MMO i have ever known is FFXI, so there's not really much to compare it too.

The next best thing, would be korean MMO's and they do love a grind. I played lineage 2 before WoW, and that game was grind city. So much fun though.

---

There is also Dragon Quest X Online from SE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kyuven

People complaining about FFXIV being "a job" remind me of:
EQ1 players saying raiding felt like "a job"
FFXI players saying the game felt like "a job"
Wow pl-wait...
Yeah there's a pattern here. Any game played for any length of time will begin to feel like "a job"
Log on, do daily thing #1392, raid, etc. It's the nature of the genre.

---

Usually when people are saying it starting to feel like a job, it is that pressures in the game either by design or by the players make them feel forced to play during times they don't want to, lest they fall behind on content and be less valued.

Consider this, one of the biggest games in Japan is Monster Hunter. It's a game where the object is to hunt monsters, you hunt monsters, steal their bones and hides and teeth to make better gear to fight harder monsters. That's all the game pretty much is (and mining, and cooking food), gathering resources to continue playing the game to gather better resources.

This game is more, log in, cap poetics, run wod/coil, or, if you got your gear, wait for the next patch to make all the gear you spent 3 months getting obsolete. Repeat. XI, you could pick up gear at low levels that would last you till 75, at 75 you had different progression routes to gear up, Sea, Sky, Dynamis, HNM, BCNM, Nyzul, Salvage etc. etc. XIV is pretty much devoid of any meaningful content, you're on a giant roundabout and oh look, it's about to start again.

Also with XI, you had gear swapping, as RDM you had a full inventory of gear for swapping to INT or MND depending on the spell you wanted to use, the game wasn't challenging by any means, but when you had to gear up for (as DPS) a TP build and a WS build, just having Item X for slot A isn't enough, you needed item X, Y and Z for slot A. This games pretty much build for the Facebook Games generation.

I have to disagree. FFXIV require good amount of coordinate in the Coil. XI is way over doing it with gear swapping, no body ACTUALLY like it but if u don;t you are shamed upon. Do you remember the day you NEED Scorpion Harness +1 to get an exp pt as Thief? I do and i do not miss it one bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xellos2099

I have to disagree. FFXIV require good amount of coordinate in the Coil. XI is way over doing it with gear swapping, no body ACTUALLY like it but if u don;t you are shamed upon. Do you remember the day you NEED Scorpion Harness +1 to get an exp pt as Thief? I do and i do not miss it one bit.

---

Now you need ilvl.
*coughelfinbowcough*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lexxuk

This games pretty much build for the Facebook Games generation.

---

XI was one of the only games to actually do that.
Even EQ1, which predated it, didn't have nearly as much gear swapping. You still had "sets" for different situations, but you have those here as well, especially tanks.
Also I will continue to argue that promoting in-combat gear swapping was horrid design in FFXI's case. Inventory was already ludicrously limited (you started with 30 slots and could go to 80. This included your equipment that was currently equipped. They later added more inventory options but that was years down the road)
Just because something is more convenient doesn't mean it's dumbed down. Often time even the creators would rather have the more convenient option over the more complex option.

XI's gear swapping got so bad we switched over to third party programs just to manage it. First XML, then LUA.

Nothing made me cry as much when getting a new piece of gear that I wanted as the fact that I was going to have to open my LUA, replace the piece of gear in probably ten slots, and then test it extensively. I discovered a typo between a piece of gear and its +1 version that way.