I want FFXI skill chain/magic burst mechanics - Anyone else?

For those who don't know these mechanics:
-Each weapon gives access to a set of weapon skills always associated with an element.
-If two players would use their own weapon skill one after each other, they could create a "skill chain".
-If a caster uses a spell of the same element as the skill chain, then it would do a "magic burst", increasing spell damage (can crit) and its accuracy.

Let's say war uses a water element weapon skill, then monk would use an electricity element, it'd form a skillchain based on lightning, called "electrocution" (water conducts electricity, right? lol).

On top of that a caster could start melding a spell to enphasize the effect of this skill chain, casting a thunder based spell, which would "burst", doing twice the damage, a damage that could even crit to x4 damage.

Of course, ff14 gameplay would need a huge update because :
-a weapon skill system would need to be created with a gauge system similar to the limit break one
-the entire (stupid) ff14 spell system would need to be revised because caster jobs don't have access to all elements (whm has sacred, smn, sch have bio which could be the dark element, and so on). But we are living in the "action RPG" era so SQex decided to base all the gameplay on rotations.
-graphical display would need to find a smart way to display other players' actions effects without making low performance computers performance collapse.

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Is this idea exciting only to me?
Basically DPS would finally need to play together and not each one only thinking about his rotations. And don't tell me you pay that much attention to what other DPS players are doing when playing T9-T13.

Plus this would give a sense of satisfaction to tanks who could initiate skill chains with a /p using "weapon skill name" on <t> ice effect and then watch how his DPS team mates respond to that.

The only way I could see this working, and maybe this is what you are trying to convey:

Make the limit break gauge per player instead of party-wide. Based on certain actions or criteria the gauge fills for each player (player does damage, heals, takes damage whatever). Each job has a unique weapon skill/limit break or maybe eventually a few to choose from. Combinations of these limits with other party members results in a chain that provide special effects like more damage or maybe even other interesting things like buffs/debuffs/healing.

It would need to be implemented in a way that does not destroy the current playstyle or rotation of the jobs and so it is not a DPS loss. Currently a damage dealer can actually lose dps if they use a Limit Break at a suboptimal time. For instance as a DRG you do not want to use your LB if your dots or disembowel are not up or would fall off during the LB. Obviously you also don't want to be locked in the LB animation if you are about to get caught in an AoE that can one shot you.

So skill/limit chaining would need to be timed correctly and also provide enough of a benefit or damage to offset interrupting a DPS rotation.


BTW: Editing your post can allow you to bypass the character limit so you do not need to post multiple times.

Thank you, I did not know I could bypass the caracter limit by editing my post.

I think your proposal is more adapted to the game in its current state than mine. So this would be a great begining.

Sorry to anyone would love the current game system, but as a former ff11 player, I often feel very fustrated playing ff14 (the way smn is designed, using primals kittens, black mage using rotations, elements have no impact on gameplay, no weapon skills, warriors becoming tanks in ff14, wtf? ^^ etc.).
While I must admit ff14 fixed a lot of end game issues like toxic uses of gil, making the game casual player friendly and so on, I just feel a party is only a sum of players with no interaction whatsoever between each other.
In ff11, if you felt your tank was going through a hard time, you could provoke as war, nin, (and other jobs like samurai) to take a hit or two and then let the tank take the aggro back.

Anyway, I'm turning this thread in a selfish, nostalgic, comparison bewtween FF14 and another game. I'll stick to the idea of this tread, I promise.

It's understandable, I played FFXI for about 8 yrs and definitely enjoyed back when party members coordinated attacks and other actions during even regular XP parties. (Honestly even this kind of play disappeared after Treasures of Aht Uhrgan's release when mindlessly slaying the pink merit pinata's became the norm).
The problem is that 11 was a MUCH slower paced game. As a melee dps you basically sat there and auto-attacked 90% of the fight.

I don't know what playing DRG is like in coil contents, but I played it until lvl42 pretty intensively and while I was feeling I was actively pressing my keys to optimize my use of GCD skills, the only interaction I had with my team was checking my aggro so the tank can keep it on him, checking my party list to see if I should use my party slicing/piercing buff (forgot which one it is) and... that was it. If I try to think about how I'd play a DRG in T9, well I'd have to avoid getting in dalamud dives, I'd have to move away from iron chariot, not jump in lunar dynamo, place meteors... but I would still not need to watch what other DPS are doing hahaha.

Seriously Square Enix we need more interaction between players. Grinding is cool, watching my BLM dish 3k damage on spells is cool, sometimes when it gets really hot, watching my status bar is cool, but really I'd like to feel like I need to coordinate with other players a little more. I want more interaction. Not sex, not getting married either, just stuff like skill chains :)

They had an attempt at something like this in 1.0 with battle regimens. They didn't give us skill chains like fragmentation, reverberation etc but did put status effects on the mob like lowering magic defence or increasing the mobs cast timers/mp consumption. The problem was that they just weren't very good and were abandoned fairly early on. They certainly weren't as complex as in xi. Unfortunately I doubt we could have a skillchain system like the one in xi as the action in xiv is quicker and coordinating skillchains while keeping up optimum rotations would be difficult.
I like the idea of combining individual limit breaks for a skillchain though. Main reason I loved playing SAM so much in xi was the complexity the role of skillchain coordination. At one time I could probably have instantly told you which ws from all jobs and in what order were needed for whichever skillchain.

I know the feeling as I mained war/nin and was also a skillchain geek :)
Now I just feel very fustrated by ff14 because:
1-WAR is a tank O_O and summoner uses weird pets that look like ill pokemons
2-We all play alone, not interacting

All playing alone is definitely the major drawback of dungeon racing and fate training instead of good old fashioned open world xp parties. I don't want to think how many hours I spent in bird camps in xi, but I don't regret a single one of them. My longest was 16 hours straight, only moving to pull as cor while we had no rng in the pty, and to pop to town when I ran out of bullets.

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Originally Posted by charlemagne

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I thought it was pretty good, it was one of the few times in 1.0 you could actually do insane damage as a caster. Most stuff resisted you because of being several levels higer than you. If you had 7 melee attacks that worked with each other and a spell on top of the list you could do very high damage.

I miss that, unfortunately I think the combat system is too fast for something like that now.

They can't put the FFxi LB sys, coz they will need to revamp/redesign the whole LB sys and there is no elemental dmg balance sys (fire is weak to water etc), meaning there is no/not many mobs have elemental weakness. What they can do is to have 4 LB bars and 2 players can combine using 2 bars each to perform a combo LB with weapon dmg weakness as bonus dmg when done correctly. By weapon dmg weakness i meant the stat you see in your char stat screen that is always 0, blut resistance, slash resistance etc. I mean you see these debuffs in some bosses, like coil where enemies gets a buff of "slash resistance up" so why can't they take advantage of that. of course this will need some type of LB skill solely set on each jobs and are categorized based on the type of job you are, "DPS, Tank, Healer".

I would make this style of mechanic how a Red Mage does combos. Sword move > Element-charged Sword move > Elemental spell > maybe squeeze in an off GCD elemental attack

It doesn't work so well to try to do teamwork attacks because people are using combos/rotations.

I would love such a system again. It worked like a charm and made party synergy a blessing.

However, with how much Yoshi-P loves to cater to new players, I bet this would get the "too difficult" label too. Not to mention that they will have to adjust the class/job system dramatically.

Maybe one day..

The title of this thread immediately made me thing of this .

Its a shame that things like this aren't in the game - but thus is 2.0. Things are meant to be as easy as possible and therefore battle isn't this complex...and probably never will be. Even when it comes to elements, they mean nothing in 2.0, and I don't see that changing anytime soon =/.

Man, this brings back the best of memories :)
This is probably what I used to enjoy the most in FFXI. I also miss the sub job system but whatever! The cross class skills is an interesting system.

I think I can understand why this skill chain system in no longer possible in FFXIV ARR, because it would cost Square Enix too much to change the battle system this much. They'd have to rebalance classes, review all the game content, mostly these parts where LB plays such an important role, etc (T5? Mog Ex?...).
On top of that they'd take a huge risk towards the FFXIV player base who could reject such a fundamental change.
I just think this episode improved FF11 on many aspects but lost a lot of identity and good ideas FF11 introduced.
Yeah they had to relaunch the game because the first version was not a FF (I mean you can't forget the job system that exists since FF1) but so the project would not simply abort they had to keep lots of inconsistencies introduced by 1.0 and had to try and capitalize on it to make an up to date game, similar to MMOs that generate benefit today.

EDIT: One way to introduce a mechanic similar to skill chains could be to make a spell/skill available for each class once you've reached a set of conditions... Something similar to the mudras system but with less combinations. Then you'd have to synchronize with other party members to create a skill/spell chain hihihi. Would love that.

I think things are fine as is.

We'll be getting some new abilities for 51-60 and new traits which should spice up our rotations. LBs work fine as is imo.

This is FFXIV ARR, 2.0. Soon to be 3.0

This isn't 1.0, and this sure as hell isn't ffxi.
It's FFXIV and that's just what it is.

I would really like to see this back but (there is always a but my fine friend) we have to account for the market of this game. It's marketed towards casual players.

But yeah I would really like this to be implemented, albeit in a less complex way. For example, like, remember the beast tribes' buff? Enfire, enwater, enearth? I would like to see that when you meld a specific elemental type materia, your spells/skills would have a desired effect on the enemy, putting some sort of "debuff" on them, like a sticky note saying "this guy has been attacked by a fire weapon", and when another player attacks it with an earth elemental weapon, then the target would suffer a constant Dot called "lava" that would be reapplied with every skill chain.

Of course, the debuff effect has to have a percentage chain to stick on the target, but you get my meaning yes? This wouldn't affect gameplay MUCH but it would start off a more complex mechanism once the playerbase gets a hang of it.

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Originally Posted by Kraktur

Is this idea exciting only to me?

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Sounds interesting, could work, could be implemented if XIV:ARR get´s the same fate as XIV 1.0 had...

implementing this, I see the whole game break apart and being redisigned as it happened before,... putting this in the game as now, i don´t see it work

Dealing with mechanics is hard enough, now you want to implement chain-skill. It's a good idea but dps jobs like monk would need to choose, give up GS 3 to do limit chain or continue Dps which is why monks are so strong. Another things is limit break if im not wrong is gain when you land a skill, meaning Monk job would need to wait for drg and other dps to chain it. The amount of things you need to look out for suddenly become more. I think it's more of a burden than a fun mechanic to be implemented in FFXIV. Because the pace is SO fast
https://youtu.be/CMSkLXxNkkc < this guy says it all

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Originally Posted by Kraktur

Man, this brings back the best of memories :)
This is probably what I used to enjoy the most in FFXI. I also miss the sub job system but whatever! The cross class skills is an interesting system.

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You kept talking about FFXI, this is FFXIV man, stop talking about another game. Some ideas just don't work here. I don't understand why FFXI players keep wanting FFXIV to be the same as FFXI, like DRK for example. Go back and play FFXI if you want the memories so much

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Originally Posted by Kraktur

One way to introduce a mechanic similar to skill chains could be to make a spell/skill available for each class once you've reached a set of conditions... Something similar to the mudras system but with less combinations. Then you'd have to synchronize with other party members to create a skill/spell chain hihihi. Would love that.

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Sorry for quoting myself, I just wanted to point out how this could be declined in FFXIV. You have to think about it this way: it's a reward for playing together, not something you need to do.

This is quite consistent with the way Square Enix makes older content more trivial as time goes by, increasing echo, increasing the ilvl of items you can buy with farmable currencies like poetics, soldiery, introducing new raids (like WoD). You make older content easier to beat (content like T9 remains hard but more VIT makes it more forgiving etc.).

Whereas new content could be designed to match this kind of new mechanics.
On the one hand the player base seems very pleased with the new job level cap which will move current skill/spell rotations and tp/mp management, on the other hand you use the same arguments to say you don't want change. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Blueskyy

You kept talking about FFXI, this is FFXIV man, stop talking about another game. Some ideas just don't work here. I don't understand why FFXI players keep wanting FFXIV to be the same as FFXI, like DRK for example. Go back and play FFXI if you want the memories so much

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This is a forum, I was sure I would eventually read this kind of comment. Unfortunately, I will not answer this.

^
XI is still there if you really miss it. Players caught on to SCs and MBs being more of a gimmick than an actual dps boosts a century ago though. Only exception was when monster vs player parameters were so out of balance that the only way to dent something was to SC/MB, which was already silly imo.

WAR was supposed to be a tank but failed at it so players took it upon themselves to fix it. which happened with pretty much half the jobs SE implemented. (Nin, sam, dnc, drg, pup)
At least SE gave the jobs in this game the tools to do their job. (For the most part haha)

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Originally Posted by Blueskyy

Dealing with mechanics is hard enough, now you want to implement chain-skill. It's a good idea but dps jobs like monk would need to choose, give up GS 3 to do limit chain or continue Dps which is why monks are so strong. Another things is limit break if im not wrong is gain when you land a skill, meaning Monk job would need to wait for drg and other dps to chain it. The amount of things you need to look out for suddenly become more. I think it's more of a burden than a fun mechanic to be implemented in FFXIV. Because the pace is SO fast
https://youtu.be/CMSkLXxNkkc < this guy says it all

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I just listened to Mr Happy's point of view and I understand what he says. Basically he is saying that in ff11, experience showed that players liked the mechanic, but did not find it useful in the end because it was not optimal to skillchain in general so they stopped using it consistently.
- Yes.
Does it mean you can't find a way to adapt this mechanic to this game and create the same enthusiasm and design it better to suit the global gameplay?
- I don't think so. And I explained why.

If this is implemented, give me my SAM & DNC back for solo light chians. TY the end.

This game is just too fast paced to really implement something like this. SC/MB even became obsolete in FFXI once people realized that zerging was a faster way to kill stuff.