Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

Can you also let us upgrade the WoD items to i130 please? It will just give us that many more choices to play around with without really breaking the game.

This sounds like a viable suggestion :D

Tbh >_> It'd be a whole lot better if they had made WoD gear i125, so you have an option between upgrading ironworks and dreadwyrm. Kind of hope they go that direction later on. Kinda defeats the purpose of releasing that new gear when usually the tome gear beats it and most people wouldn't waste a weekly item on something the same ilvl, even if its better.

But at the same time, they need more than two gear sets at the same ilvl, so we have more options to pick from and can mix and match, instead of "I'll get this full set", it'd be "Should I work for this piece? Or maybe that one?". That's what was great about older mmos. It gave you more to work for instead of only a single thing (expert) per day.

WoD pieces replacing FCoB pieces as best in slot? No thanks, and I haven't even started Final coil yet.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

WoD pieces replacing FCoB pieces as best in slot? No thanks, and I haven't even started Final coil yet.

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Not everyone does coil and to be honest it's not even necessary to gear up a job.

It's already been proven that anything over ilvl110 isn't required to beat final coil, it just gives more room for error. Having WoD gear upgradable to ilvl130 would do little to change balance of endgame.

Imo Syrcus Tower gear should of been the upgradable gear instead of soldiery, doesn't make much sense to have raid gear be inferior to vendor gear that came out before it.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

WoD pieces replacing FCoB pieces as best in slot? No thanks, and I haven't even started Final coil yet.

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Because ilvl dictates BiS now? NO, the stats dictate what is BiS and WoD, ironworks and Dread all have their own stats meaning anyone of them will be BiS imo Dread still has the best stats out of all 3 sets.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Dr...obe_of_Healing

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Au...obe_of_Healing

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wi...obe_of_Healing


So in this case the BIS happens to be the hardest one to acquire the Dread, since it gives both SCH and WHM vital stats they need, sure it has no DET but a both classes and use SS and Crit well.

But a i120 item has less stat points than an i130 piece of equipment, so ilvl does kinda dictate what "could" be BiS, unless we're talking about crafted gear. Materia sockets on non crafted gear, please?

Right, too much customization for a casual mmo. I forgot.

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Originally Posted by Trixxy

But a i120 item has less stat points than an i130 piece of equipment, so ilvl does kinda dictate what "could" be BiS, unless we're talking about crafted gear. Materia sockets on non crafted gear, please?

Right, too much customization for a casual mmo. I forgot.

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Well i had a look comparing stats and the Dread has more SS/Crit but lacks in MND and VIT compared to the ironworks so really WoD sets wont become BiS because the ironworks appear better, and everyone can easily farm Carbontwine from hunting..at least WoD means you need to run raids and have a random loot chance.

However i think they should do a weekly like carboncoat to make it fair to FcoB raiders.

I like this idea, why has no one thought of this before?

If the so-called "elite" that obtain that classification from playing a mere 5% of all content in the game want to cry about it, let them cry. Of all the would be temporary un-subscribers, they are the extreme minority, and they would strip themselves of the "elite" title in doing so.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

WoD pieces replacing FCoB pieces as best in slot? No thanks, and I haven't even started Final coil yet.

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No one is forcing you to replace gear. continue wearing FCoB pieces as if its some special badge of being "hardcore." Pretty sure titles are meant to be that badge of accomplishment.

Honestly... Grinding WoD isn't much different to grinding the 450 poetics for the week and buying/upgrading poetics gear.
Basically comparing random drop/luck to a token/currency system (poetics).

Coil gear only being on-par with Poetics gear (once twine is available from other sources, hunts being an example) no longer makes raids essential for BiS anyway..
At least with potential BiS coming from WoD, it would open up a lot more options for min/maxing - instead of settling with mediocre substats on certain pieces.

I'm for it.

We need more content of the same calibre offering the same ilvl. If we had 5-6 different forms of content all offering different i130 gear it would be much more fun working out which slots you want from which content and gathering up different friends to tackle the different challenges. As it is now it's either faceroll hunts or rigid static for coil.

I would love to see this go hand in hand with more hard open world content designed for 8 players, poppable boss mobs with hard to obtain pop items, very dangerous areas, extremely hard group Leves etc etc.

For dangerous areas it would be cool to have a void that warps you to a harder version of the zone (just change the lighting to make it all dark and ominous and fill it with tough mobs and wandering boss mobs), with that zone still being completely open world (so anybody who has the void unlocked can enter).

Reusing a zone like this would take much less resources than creating entire new areas and would give many people the danger and excitement they desire in the open world.

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Originally Posted by Wobble

Not everyone does coil and to be honest it's not even necessary to gear up a job.

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So why do you need i130 gear if you don't Coil ? i120 is enough to duty and chill.

Nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Utsu

So why do you need i130 gear if you don't Coil ? i120 is enough to duty and chill.

Nonsense.

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Why do you need i130 gear even if you DO coil? Again, same argument. This game is all about gear grinding ultimately. Whether you raid or not doesn't even factor into it. Both the endgame content and the rest can be done without the highest-tier gear, so this argument is tired and defeated.

I don't see a point to upscale WoD gear... theres always those piece where the ilvl upgrade is a downgrade statwise. So will I eg keep my Demon Gloves of Healing because of those nice sweeeeeet crit and so does our bard prefer Demon Tabard of Aiming over Ironworks or Dreadwyrm. Ilvl makes gear not per se better and doesnt give you more skill.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Why do you need i130 gear even if you DO coil? Again, same argument. This game is all about gear grinding ultimately. Whether you raid or not doesn't even factor into it. Both the endgame content and the rest can be done without the highest-tier gear, so this argument is tired and defeated.

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You don't even know what you're talking about.

Do you really think we're slacking the rest of the week after cleaning FCoB ? The top CLs are doing hardcore optimisation for their jobs and rosters, speedkills, solohealing, etc.

The i130 is/should be an achievement AND a tool for raiders, better call us elitists if you want, I just don't know why a lot of ppl want top ilvl gear without any useful way to use it.

Now, can you answer, why do you need i130 gear as non-raider ? i120 is enough for what you're doing, it will be enough for the 3.0 too.

To be honest I was thinking about this too. Only 2 sets to choose is too low. Even if they make wod gear upgradeable the fcob will have still many bis pieces.

If they balance out several endgames contents in 3.0, like adding the fortress of alexander (already confirmed) and then add for example 1 or more super hard dungeons for 8 players like how was AV/CC in 1.0 and other stuff, with several gear sets where they had each 1-2 pieces where they are bis people would do several things to get all of them. In the end everyone would get busier with more to do and have more fun because they weren't doing just 1 thing to clear.

I dont see them doing tthat. I mean they didnt replace ST with Sol gear and the High Allagan gear.

seems like an interesting idea to me at least.

Also can we not have another thread about upgrade options devolve into "Casuals don't need anything above i90" again?

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Originally Posted by Utsu

You don't even know what you're talking about.

Do you really think we're slacking the rest of the week after cleaning FCoB ? The top CLs are doing hardcore optimisation for their jobs and rosters, speedkills, solohealing, etc.

The i130 is/should be an achievement AND a tool for raiders, better call us elitists if you want, I just don't know why a lot of ppl want top ilvl gear without any useful way to use it.

Now, can you answer, why do you need i130 gear as non-raider ? i120 is enough for what you're doing, it will be enough for the 3.0 too.

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Why should only people who do FcoB be the only ones aloud to have ilvl 130 gear? For those who have not unlocked the content or have a GROUP to do it, being limited in what you can and cant have is terrible and turns you away from the game. Again why should only a minority of people who do a tiny bit of the end game content be aloud to gain the highest level in gear?

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

Why should only people who do FcoB be the only ones aloud to have ilvl 130 gear? For those who have not unlocked the content or have a GROUP to do it, being limited in what you can and cant have is terrible and turns you away from the game. Again why should only a minority of people who do a tiny bit of the end game content be aloud to gain the highest level in gear?

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with carbontine u upgrade ironworks to ilvl 130 , + encrypted tomestome for weapon

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

Why should only people who do FcoB be the only ones aloud to have ilvl 130 gear? For those who have not unlocked the content or have a GROUP to do it, being limited in what you can and cant have is terrible and turns you away from the game. Again why should only a minority of people who do a tiny bit of the end game content be aloud to gain the highest level in gear?

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I already answered, please read my post again : you don't have any useful way to use the i130 gear if you don't clean the Coil.

You're just answering me with other questions, I still wait a correct answer : why do you really need i130 gear if the i120 gear is enough for what you're doing ?

I really hate the upgrade system, I liked it more when tome and coil gear was the same level so I didn't have to worry about my mind and could just wear whatever I liked best. But since we have this now... I support this. I still use WoD gear (and have used ST gear before) but as a healer especially, secondary are so minor that you'll always want the 130 gear over the 120, unless as a sch you really need to stack crit. It's a shame. There are some good drops but in the back of my mind I'm always thinking "is it really worth wearing this for the secondary stats when I could have more mind and some 20 points in a stats I don't like?" and the answer is usually no.

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I already answered, please read my post again : you don't have any useful way to use the i130 gear if you don't clean the Coil.

You're just answering me with other questions, I still wait a correct answer : why do you really need i130 gear if the i120 gear is enough for what you're doing ?

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Some people need 130 to clear content because they can't do it in 120, just like some need Echo. So what? Why do you even care what people use their gear on? It's none of your business.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

with carbontine u upgrade ironworks to ilvl 130 , + encrypted tomestome for weapon

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Encrypted Tomestone isn't available outside FCoB yet.

ScarletDawn's complaint wasn't about that you couldn't get i130 gear, but that Utsu was saying that i130 was/should only be important to raiders.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I really hate the upgrade system, I liked it more when tome and coil gear was the same level so I didn't have to worry about my mind and could just wear whatever I liked best. But since we have this now... I support this. I still use WoD gear (and have used ST gear before) but as a healer especially, secondary are so minor that you'll always want the 130 gear over the 120, unless as a sch you really need to stack crit. It's a shame. There are some good drops but in the back of my mind I'm always thinking "is it really worth wearing this for the secondary stats when I could have more mind and some 20 points in a stats I don't like?" and the answer is usually no.


Some people need 130 to clear content because they can't do it in 120, just like some need Echo. So what? Why do you even care what people use their gear on? It's none of your business.

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As you said, Echo buff exists, can't they wait for it to be up on FCoB ? i120 gear is enough to clean FCoB, it's enough to try to beat it aswell.

And you missed something : a lot of ppl want i130 gear and won't go to the FCoB.

The problem is that a majority of ppl think that raiders are elitists, but they're wrong. We don't look at them like "Hahaha look at these baddies, i120 xoxo", I just don't understand why they need endgame gear without any useful way to use it. As raiders, we don't need endgame gear to /afk Mor Dhona and show how strong we are, we just want the endgame gear to do "hardcore" PvE things as I said on my other post, and to optimize our jobs and rosters as high as it's possible.

Anyway, peace.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Encrypted Tomestone isn't available outside FCoB yet.

ScarletDawn's complaint wasn't about that you couldn't get i130 gear, but that Utsu was saying that i130 was/should only be important to raiders.

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it will be avaliable at WoD or Gold saucer thats for sure .

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

WoD pieces replacing FCoB pieces as best in slot? No thanks, and I haven't even started Final coil yet.

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Dat tank chest piece doe....

I agree if both dreadwyrm and ironwork piece is horrible would be nice if demon piece would give you bis stats with ilvl130 gear. Like SMN and BRD have pretty horrible skillspeed/spellspeed gear.

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Originally Posted by Utsu

I already answered, please read my post again : you don't have any useful way to use the i130 gear if you don't clean the Coil.

You're just answering me with other questions, I still wait a correct answer : why do you really need i130 gear if the i120 gear is enough for what you're doing ?

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So your attitude is you don't raid so you don't deserve ilvl 130 gear. And this is why people are labeled as elitist. Your saying im not aloud to have gear because i dont go FcoB, i pay my sub im aloud to have the entire game.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

So your attitude is you don't raid so you don't deserve ilvl 130 gear. And this is why people are labeled as elitist. Your saying im not aloud to have gear because i dont go FcoB, i pay my sub im aloud to have the entire game.

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I'm not saying that at all, what the hell...

It's not about "you don't deserve", it's about "you don't need it", did you really read my posts ?

Come on, please, could you please stop calling us elitists when you seem to feel inferiors by yourself with your bad interpretations ?

And you have the entire game, FCoB is not closed.

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I just don't understand why they need endgame gear without any useful way to use it

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So what? I have no idea either but it does not affect me in any way so who cares. Why would I be against it? What they do with it it's their business. Everyone has its own way of having fun, if they like to do Wanderer's Place HM in 130 let them.

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The problem is that a majority of ppl think that raiders are elitists, but they're wrong.

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When you think people shouldn't get gear to a certain ilvl because they don't raid, you are.

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Originally Posted by Utsu

I'm not saying that at all, what the hell...

It's not about "you don't deserve", it's about "you don't need it", did you really read my posts ?

Come on, please, could you please stop calling us elitists when you seem to feel inferiors by yourself with your bad interpretations ?

And you have the entire game, FCoB is not closed.

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But you don't need ilvl 130 gear to clear FcoB so why complain about others getting it who do not raid?

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Originally Posted by Moqi

When you think people shouldn't get gear to a certain ilvl because they don't raid, you are.

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I find it highly amusing when people talk about bis this and that and maximizing secondary stat when they don't do coil though.

That's like ricing up your car with nitro and stuff to take your niece to school.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

I find it highly amusing when people talk about bis this and that and maximizing secondary stat when they don't do coil though.

That's like ricing up your car with nitro and stuff to take your niece to school.

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Again why does having to do coil seem like the only way ur aloud to max out your char? People back in (other mmo with pandas) would try max stats without raiding because idk they liked to obtain gear and max out their char.

I'll repeat again : it's not about "they shouldn't get" or "they don't deserve".

My feeling is that i130 gear is designed for raiders to optimize themselves (hardcore theorycraft, hardcore raid trials like solohealing and speedkills, etc) because i120 is enough for everything else.

That's why I'm wondering why everyone want endgame gear without any "hardcore" endgame goal.

"Why complain" ? I do not.

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Originally Posted by ScarletDawn

Again why does having to do coil seem like the only way ur aloud to max out your char? People back in (other mmo with pandas) would try max stats without raiding because idk they liked to obtain gear and max out their char.

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Why are you so offended? I only said I find it amusing, not that people shouldn't do what they do. You're attacking my freedom of thought here.

Are you some kind of thought elitist?

As a SMN I support this idea.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Why are you so offended? I only said I find it amusing, not that people shouldn't do what they do. You're attacking my freedom of thought here.

Are you some kind of thought elitist?

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No im the thought police.


And im not offended i couldnt careless, i just think people shouldn't get up in arms because casual non raid players get to use the same items as hardcore raiders.

Omg yes please, the summoner itemization issue will be somewhat solved!

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Originally Posted by Taei

Can you also let us upgrade the WoD items to i130 please? It will just give us that many more choices to play around with without really breaking the game.

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Can you upgrade the ST gear to ilevel110 after ST give you sand of time?

I doubt SE change the pattern before 3.0