Turn 9 Meteors

This is got to be the stupidest part of any fight in this game, its to precise especially for DF. Maybe wouldn't be as bad if you had a regular static to perfect all day but otherwise forget it.
It's like every fight you have to explain to the new person so much I think thats why they quit. Even with exp'd players 99% of the wipes occur here at phase 2, 6 meteors. I suggest not to use anything where one player instantly wipes whole party instantly again, more of a single player game mechanic.:cool::mad:

Coordinaton is hard apparently. Both the sprint method and position method are easy enough for randoms to do of they can pay attention to what is going on. At least it isnt 8 like in Savage...

And the meteors aren't nearly as tough as the last phase.

But, t9 isn't meant for everyone to beat. It got only the echo for a reason, no mechanic nerfs

And honestly, if you can't handle t9, you don't belong in FCoB at all, which is the main reason for anyone to beat it now

You can heal wounds, cure diseases, but you can never cure stupid.

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Originally Posted by Reokudo

You can heal wounds, cure diseases, but you can never cure stupid.

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You can with mumble.

I'd argue that part is tricky, but no where near as bad as teaching people elementals in the final phase.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

You can with mumble.

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Even with a VOIP, you still can't fix that. My original WHM in my static was proof of this.

You're talking about doing a high tier endgame raid with a bunch of randoms of varying degrees of skill and experience whom you'll very likely never meet again. Honestly, do you really expect something to come out of it?

It only gets harder after T9, so if you can't get a group that sticks and gets it done then you're going to have even more trouble later on.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

one player instantly wipes whole party

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You say this like it's the only instance of such a mechanic in the game. *cough*T5/6/7pre-nerf/8/EXprimals/Atomos*cough*

VOIP cures stupid eh? If you have someone in your party that requires constant audio feedback from other players during a CLEAR PARTY (NOT a learning party), I suggest finding a replacement. People are worthless to me in a serious battle if they don't know the mechanics on their own and can't pay attention to the fight and focus on their own. I'm not going on VOIP to babysit lazy / useless people.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

VOIP cures stupid eh? If you have someone in your party that requires constant audio feedback from other players during a fight, I suggest finding a replacement. People are worthless to me in a serious battle if they don't know the mechanics on their own and can't pay attention to the fight and focus on their own. I'm not going on VOIP to babysit lazy / useless people.

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Well if you give up so easily on people then you don't deserve a win.
In duty finder at least. Everyone has to work together. A princess is just as unhelpful as a scrub.

The meteors in the first part aren't hard at all. If the super simple method of just doing them 4 feet apart is too complicated for random DF peeps, then do it the old way. One on the ring of the arena, another on the spire circle.

The hardest thing I've found is reminding them to move once the indicator disappears. Too many people think it's like KB's meteor in CT so they just stand around. People also argue about Mario Kart method or the back and forth one. If they disagree, they don't follow the method and wipe the group. Too many whiners that don't want to play nice.


Meteors at the end isn't an issue. How I was always taught that was that it was tank business. A tank (now especially that there's an off tank) should have learned the possible patterns that meteors can go and marked them up with the markers. If people watched the video, then they will know if they ask which marker is the first one to go to. If you don't know, ask. Ask instead of wiping.

Elementals are awful... People still get them wrong even when farming. This is where 99% of groups fail.

Basically, T9 isn't for DF peeps who don't know what they are doing. I'm sick of seeing people saying that "it's too hard for DF" and that they can only do it with a static. That's bs and it's you deciding that something else is at fault rather than you or the current group you're in.

The issue with DF in general is that you get too wide a variety of player in them. You get experienced people and then you're one of those lucky players who gets into a duty only to find the tank or healer that's decided that going in blind was a perfect idea. Yeah, go in blind to T9 and see how far it gets you. Probably the first Ravensbeak.

Game is fun, this 1 shot death of whole party isn't, and their the one's quitting not me

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Well if you give up so easily on people then you don't deserve a win.
In duty finder at least. Everyone has to work together. A princess is just as unhelpful as a scrub.

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I think you completely misunderstood what I was talking about so I'll leave you to your disillusion.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

I think you completely misunderstood what I was talking about so I'll leave you to your disillusion.

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You have to have beaten turn 7 to do turn 9 so they cant be that bad?

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

You have to have beaten turn 7 to do turn 9 so they cant be that bad?

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I edited my post to clear up the confusion. I was referring to parties that are to CLEAR the content, not for learning. If I'm doing something that is a clear then my expectations is that everyone knows what they are doing. Obviously I'm not oblivious that people need to go through learning periods lol I thought that was implied.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Game is fun, this 1 shot death of whole party isn't, and their the one's quitting not me

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There's another game i don't remember the name where the punishment for failing a fight mechanic is an aoe which can be easily healed through.
WoW... i wish i could remember the name but that game is perfect for the "everybody is a winner! generation" wow, brain what are you doing!

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

You have to have beaten turn 7 to do turn 9 so they cant be that bad?

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T7 is nerfed to the ground and is now the easiest turn in scob. And...you also do not need it to access later turns.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

I edited my post to clear up the confusion. I was referring to parties that are to CLEAR the content, not for learning. If I'm doing something that is a clear then my expectations is that everyone knows what they are doing. Obviously I'm not oblivious that people need to go through learning periods lol I thought that was implied.

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Well i didnt know the exact debuff rotation for a while even though i beat it too many times. Also the fire in out is easy for a healer like me who stares at hp bar all fight but its not that clear to dps who need to hit dps check. SE should make it more visible to player. At least the rng isnt too bad.
Mumble makes the debuff phase easy.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

T7 is nerfed to the ground and is now the easiest turn in scob. And...you also do not need it to access later turns.

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And this is exactly why you shouldnt nerf previous content. people who couldnt do T6 before for some reason won't be able to do T9 now. When they nerf T9 they'll start crying about T10
People today don't need to get good anymore, all they need to do is wait to be spoonfed

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

This is got to be the stupidest part of any fight in this game, its to precise especially for DF. Maybe wouldn't be as bad if you had a regular static to perfect all day but otherwise forget it.

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Try putting together a PF for it. DF will inevitably have completely new people hoping for a carry.

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It's like every fight you have to explain to the new person so much I think thats why they quit. Even with exp'd players 99% of the wipes occur here at phase 2, 6 meteors. I suggest not to use anything where one player instantly wipes whole party instantly again, more of a single player game mechanic.:cool::mad:

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The way my static does the six meteors is we split up into 3 groups and go to the south, northwest, and northeast towers and stand along the inner edge of the outer ring (on the edge of the pale blue circle). When targeted by a meteor, you step out into the outer ring a few feet, then move clockwise to the halfway point between the two towers (the little blue triangle on the ground is a great way to know when you are halfway). Rarely do we have someone targeted by so many meteors that they run out of space before getting to the next group, they are always far enough apart unless RNGesus really really hates someone in their face, and it's fairly easy to coordinate.

But seriously, party finder. Unless you get incredibly lucky and land on a 7/8 static just pugging one person (and if you're tanking this is not very likely at all), T9 is not something I would ever touch in duty finder.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Well i didnt know the exact debuff rotation for a while even though i beat it too many times. Also the fire in out is easy for a healer like me who stares at hp bar all fight but its not that clear to dps who need to hit dps check. SE should make it more visible to player.

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Well I am sorry if the fight is too difficult for you without VOIP players giving you 5 second instructions. But I stand by my feelings. You can watch videos after you do a particular phase and things should click a lot better. If the only reason you have beaten T9 is because people have been giving you constantly VOIP commands so you don't mess up, I consider you 'carried' through it. Most people are going to disagree with me and that is fine, but it still won't change how I feel about this. I grew up during the Everquest generation of MMO gaming and have a very oldschool way of thinking in regards to difficult game content.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

And honestly, if you can't handle t9, you don't belong in FCoB at all, which is the main reason for anyone to beat it now

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Well, most of FCoB is easier than Nael, especially now that everyone is in full poetics gear. With that being said, I agree that they shouldn't nerf it.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

Well I am sorry if the fight is too difficult for you without VOIP players giving you 5 second instructions. But I stand by my feelings. You can watch videos after you do a particular phase and things should click a lot better. If the only reason you have beaten T9 is because people have been giving you constantly VOIP commands so you don't mess up, I consider you 'carried' through it. Most people are going to disagree with me and that is fine, but it still won't change how I feel about this. I grew up during the Everquest generation of MMO gaming and have a very oldschool way of thinking in regards to difficult game content.

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My entire static is always on VoIP for raid content. So we were carried? By whom, ourselves? o.O

Yeah how dare you actually communicate with each other! such a casual.

Before Fcob (i hear thats hard) i thought FFXIV raiding was easy sauce , so i put less effort into memorizing the exact debuff rotation because we one shot it anyway. The hardest raid content ive done in a mmo has been WoW where i feel that healer had a big skil cap.

It's not difficult at all as long as the entire group is on the same page about what method they're going to use for positioning (3-3-2 method, sprint method, etc.). I've been in multiple T9 PUG groups who have handled meteors just fine.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Game is fun, this 1 shot death of whole party isn't, and their the one's quitting not me

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Endgame content is largely a hopeless trainwreck because of it. I pretty much stopped trying second coil or extreme trials because of the constant cascade quitters or the eventual vote abandon.

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Originally Posted by Mastanight

Game is fun, this 1 shot death of whole party isn't, and their the one's quitting not me

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You must be new here. Hi this is FFXIV one shot death of whole party is the whole game and has been since first coil.

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

Well I am sorry if the fight is too difficult for you without VOIP players giving you 5 second instructions. But I stand by my feelings. You can watch videos after you do a particular phase and things should click a lot better. If the only reason you have beaten T9 is because people have been giving you constantly VOIP commands so you don't mess up, I consider you 'carried' through it. Most people are going to disagree with me and that is fine, but it still won't change how I feel about this. I grew up during the Everquest generation of MMO gaming and have a very oldschool way of thinking in regards to difficult game content.

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It's standard for statics to have a dedicated 'shouter', not only in this game but in almost every mmo. Hell even Lucrezia used an ACT plugin that calls out every skill/cast the boss does when they first cleared fcob, you can like it or not but it's normal, and I would not go as far as saying these guys got carried through anything. On top of that, a person who does not understand the mechanics of the fight to some degree and has an idea about what phase and what mechanic happens when will not be saved from making mistakes or getting carried through raid content as difficult as T9 and upwards, that's just straight up delusional. They would still wipe the party more often than not due to making panic moves in the wrong situations.

I have no idea why pf/pugs prefer the spread out method. My static uses the sprint method and it has a much higher success rate than the spread method and our group have pretty diverse IP range (from 300 to less than 80). We don't even use the same timings. Some in our group sprints before the first meteor pops, I pop sprint when I see the first meteor icon (I have 280+ latency) so I don't think latency difference is an issue. Hell, spread out method seems to require more awareness than sprinting cause I've seen people run to an empty space when they got the meteor icon and it turns out that spot he ran to was the spot chosen for the last meteor by someone else and they die. Plus, the sprint method is more fun.

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

You're talking about doing a high tier endgame raid with a bunch of randoms of varying degrees of skill and experience whom you'll very likely never meet again. Honestly, do you really expect something to come out of it?

It only gets harder after T9, so if you can't get a group that sticks and gets it done then you're going to have even more trouble later on.

You say this like it's the only instance of such a mechanic in the game. *cough*T5/6/7pre-nerf/8/EXprimals/Atomos*cough*

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Lies, T10 is a cakewalk after my static spent week after week on T9. :3

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

Well I am sorry if the fight is too difficult for you without VOIP players giving you 5 second instructions. But I stand by my feelings. You can watch videos after you do a particular phase and things should click a lot better. If the only reason you have beaten T9 is because people have been giving you constantly VOIP commands so you don't mess up, I consider you 'carried' through it. Most people are going to disagree with me and that is fine, but it still won't change how I feel about this. I grew up during the Everquest generation of MMO gaming and have a very oldschool way of thinking in regards to difficult game content.

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VOIP isn't a cure, but it ensures communication through it.

It patches over the parts which can go wrong and easily make things easier to adapt to. Doesn't in any way whatsoever mean it's a carry.

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Originally Posted by Set-Abominae

You must be new here. Hi this is FFXIV one shot death of whole party is the whole game and has been since first coil.

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If this is nothing new, then it should be easily done. Players must dodge and heal or whatever quickly so lining up meteors should be easy, but fails usually occur. After thinking about fight more I am convinced its just a matter of high dps to clear golems quickly, then plenty of time to run to the 6 poles, for six meteors. Any other space should be used as a backup if a player gets more than one because poles are to far apart and spaces in between are more risky. Basically just a dps check on golems, meteors should have no problem with more time.

People still don't clear T5 on the DF so you can't expect them to clear T9. The meteors are getting people because it is the first thing in T9 that wipes the raid and people don't get to learn the stuff that comes afterwards. The thing that cascades the run into a mess is often lunar dynamo, when you have people running around with the white meteor stream markers and clipping each other and getting each other killed or running into the forbidden donut it leads to a sequences of events attempting to recover, often with the tank dying and then wiping.

But meteors is actually probably the easiest part of T9. The whole arena is a clock face with 12 spots clearly marked for you with every hour interval as the spot for meteor drops. There are 12 spots and 6 meteors to drop, there is no good reason why that can not be done. People need to hedge their bets at an hour marker, and when the get meteor, as soon as it is coming down i.e. the indicator disappearing, move to the next hour marker that does NOT have a meteor. It actually doesn't matter where everyone else is standing, they just have to get out of your way by going to a hour marker next to them. So spread all 8 people to 12:00, 2:00, 3:00, 4:00, 6:00, 8:00, 9:00, and 10:00 and just drop 6 meteors in any of those spots without overlap. The timing of the meteors is well known, and the position for them is well known, the rest is just people executing.

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Originally Posted by Jeckyl_Tesla

VOIP isn't a cure, but it ensures communication through it.

It patches over the parts which can go wrong and easily make things easier to adapt to. Doesn't in any way whatsoever mean it's a carry.

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Right? Carrying someone through T9 means you told them to just eat the wall and watch from the sideline.

If they follow the mechanics (even if they are talked through it on VoIP), that's a legitimate clear imo.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

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If they follow the mechanics (even if they are talked through it on VoIP), that's a legitimate clear imo...

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Voice chat helps, but it can't fix human response time issues. If they don't have the practice and aren't ready to really move it for thunder it will paralyze and wipe the party most of the time. Usually by the time you call it out and by the time they move it is too late. Similarily you mark for divebombs, assuming you did this correctly, telling some to go to A, but they are so occupied by fire and thunder they can't find A fast enough and goes the wrong way that is a wipe too. People need the practice to be able to anticipate it properly.

I've been helping with T9 clear parties for the past 6 weeks now, and it seems without practice it is just not happening, and this is with people on voice chat on the PF. In all I've seen roughly 1 clear per week is what it comes down to. So for the DF if you can get to heavensfall you are doing really well.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Voice chat helps, but it can't fix human response time issues. If they don't have the practice and aren't ready to really move it for thunder it will paralyze and wipe the party most of the time. Usually by the time you call it out and by the time they move it is too late. Similarily you mark for divebombs, assuming you did this correctly, telling some to go to A, but they are so occupied by fire and thunder they can't find A fast enough and goes the wrong way that is a wipe too. People need the practice to be able to anticipate it properly.

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I agree. Until we'd gotten some practice in the last phase, it felt like the mechanics were thrown at you impossibly fast. After you go through it a few times, it gets better. Now it's a matter of rote. We have T9 on farm and we still use VoIP for it. *shrugs* I don't see a damn thing wrong with it and I personally don't consider it carrying.

When we take people for clears (FC mates and friends rather than sold runs), we try a few times post-Heavensfall with them. If they just don't have the practice to keep up with the calls in the last phase, we have them eat the wall at the phase push and clear it, along with a friendly offer to run more and teach the mechanics at a later date.

Meteors were never a huge problem for my static. We just used the three-group method. T9 was the hardest content available until FCoB released. It's not meant for everyone to clear it.

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Originally Posted by Able

Meteors were never a huge problem for my static. We just used the three-group method. T9 was the hardest content available until FCoB released. It's not meant for everyone to clear it.

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It's why echo was invented. :3

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Originally Posted by Lycelle

It's why echo was invented. :3

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Even with echo, if you can't dance the dance you aren't getting anywhere with Nael.

I'm glad they left the mechanics alone.

6 meteors? Don't you mean 3 meteors like people were doing 20 ilvl ago pre echo?

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Originally Posted by 314159265358979323846264338327

6 meteors? Don't you mean 3 meteors like people were doing 20 ilvl ago pre echo?

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The second set is always 6... >.>