Guess that Cross Skill!

Let have another round of "Guess that" Game

This time it is the Cross-skills of Dark Knight, Machinist, and Astrologian.

It simple, since these are Jobs we must follow the assumption that they may only be allowed only Cross-skill from 2 classes. Can you guess which will be the class cross-skills for these three new Jobs?

So far I can only guess....

Dark Knight - Marauder and ----

Machinist - Archer and Pugilist

Astrologian - Conjurer and Arcanist

I can see the other cross class for DRK being either GLA or THM - the former because, well, it's another tank that uses swords (Fight and Flight would be one GLA ability I can see being useful with DRK, and Provoke and Flash should go without saying), but it's more likely to be THM, given DRK's propensity for Black Magic in earlier FF games.

But I guess we'll see.

Dark Knight seems like it would have cross-class in Gladiator and Thaumaturge, maybe Lancer if a third cross-class is added to the mix (Blood for Blood just screams DRK). I don't think it'd take on Marauder cross-class abilities.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I can see the other cross class for DRK being either GLA or THM - the former because, well, it's another tank that uses swords (Fight and Flight would be one GLA ability I can see being useful with DRK, and Provoke and Flash should go without saying), but it's more likely to be THM, given DRK's propensity for Black Magic in earlier FF games.

But I guess we'll see.

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Well it sounds good in lore, by practice Thau Cross-skills doesn't sound like something would happen unless DK has Magic based abilities.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Dark Knight seems like it would have cross-class in Gladiator and Thaumaturge, maybe Lancer if a third cross-class is added to the mix (Blood for Blood just screams DRK). I don't think it'd take on Marauder cross-class abilities.

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GLA is a possible choice but DK may also obtain its own version of Flash and Provoke if it is not given GLA cross-skills such as Darkness being DK AoE Enmity skill that also does damage.

Similar to how Arcanist obtain it own version of Raise being Resurection.

I think it'd be interesting for DRK to cross class with Arcanist, and have it pick up Virus, and maybe Bio?

Probably wouldn't work that well but that's my best guess. I'm bad at guessing.

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Originally Posted by Slappah

I think it'd be interesting for DRK to cross class with Arcanist, and have it pick up Virus, and maybe Bio?

Probably wouldn't work that well but that's my best guess. I'm bad at guessing.

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Actually, while Virus untraited isn't very good, being able to crossclass Eye for an Eye along side the DRK utility might be cool. I wouldn't expect it but it does sound pretty nice.

As for my guesses:

Machinist will almost certainly crossclass Archer, but I want it to crossclass Rogue for Goad.

Astrologian will almost certainly crossclass CNJ/THM unless they get an instant raise as one of their CDs, then you can argue Arcanist as the second.

Dark Knight I want to Cross Class Marauder/Lancer and have it's it's Provoke instead of set the DRK's emnity to the top of the list +1, set another player's emnity to 0. But then I also want the DRK's tanking opener to be a 180 second CD spell that increases damage the target takes by 20% for 6 seconds and gives the DRK emnity based on this extra damage.

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Originally Posted by Zeful

Dark Knight I want to Cross Class Marauder/Lancer and have it's it's Provoke instead of set the DRK's emnity to the top of the list +1, set another player's emnity to 0. But then I also want the DRK's tanking opener to be a 180 second CD spell that increases damage the target takes by 20% for 6 seconds and gives the DRK emnity based on this extra damage.

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Ya it would be interesting if DK has it's own unique type of Provoke skills.

A Provoke skill that drains the enmity from the DK party members rather than buffing his or her Enmity to the enmity of the highest player would be a interesting one.

Not drain. He just wipes another player's emnity. I kind of want the best practice of "when to DPS as tank" to be backwards for the DRK. So he does his most effective DPS while he's tanking the boss. You spend your time as the Off tank building emnity, then when you tank swap, you hit that huge CD and damage buff right as you wipe the MT's hate and then with this huge lead of emnity just pop your Damage CDs and Bloodbath and go to town on the boss, while you maintain the boss' position by sniping the emnity of the other players in the raid.

It'd be a totally different flavor of tanking.

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Originally Posted by Zeful

Not drain. He just wipes another player's emnity. I kind of want the best practice of "when to DPS as tank" to be backwards for the DRK. So he does his most effective DPS while he's tanking the boss. You spend your time as the Off tank building emnity, then when you tank swap, you hit that huge CD and damage buff right as you wipe the MT's hate and then with this huge lead of emnity just pop your Damage CDs and Bloodbath and go to town on the boss, while you maintain the boss' position by sniping the emnity of the other players in the raid.

It'd be a totally different flavor of tanking.

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so you hate being able to tank swap?

I wanna know whats the regular job for dark knight.

Swordsman or are they going gladiator and then advance job.

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Originally Posted by aisustrong

so you hate being able to tank swap?

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Given I described a tank swap occurring... I don't see how this follows. But in case I was unclear, A DRK tank swap would hinge on two mechanics, setting the current Tank's hate to 0 (which given how Provoke works is irrelevant for the swap back), and then having a long cooldown ability that gives the DRK 20% of the raid's damage as enmity. If the DRK was keeping behind the other tank in enmity than this would put him at the top of the enmity list by a large margin until the tank swap needed to go in the other direction, in which provoke would take it from the DRK no matter his current enmity. As long as the swap only needs to occur every minute and a half (As the second ability was on a 3 minute cooldown) than this set of abilities should work just in general.

Is it perfect? No, of course not, Thornmarch Ex would be problematic with this set up. But it's what I would like to see.

So please explain how this prevents tank swapping?

it would make it so you can only swap with provoke
what if provoke isn't back up in time?
it is possible to do a swap without provoke

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Originally Posted by Zeful

Given I described a tank swap occurring... I don't see how this follows. But in case I was unclear, A DRK tank swap would hinge on two mechanics, setting the current Tank's hate to 0 (which given how Provoke works is irrelevant for the swap back), and then having a long cooldown ability that gives the DRK 20% of the raid's damage as enmity. If the DRK was keeping behind the other tank in enmity than this would put him at the top of the enmity list by a large margin until the tank swap needed to go in the other direction, in which provoke would take it from the DRK no matter his current enmity. As long as the swap only needs to occur every minute and a half (As the second ability was on a 3 minute cooldown) than this set of abilities should work just in general.

Is it perfect? No, of course not, Thornmarch Ex would be problematic with this set up. But it's what I would like to see.

So please explain how this prevents tank swapping?

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Moogle EX.

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Originally Posted by aisustrong

it would make it so you can only swap with provoke
what if provoke isn't back up in time?
it is possible to do a swap without provoke

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Ah, that's a good point which I hadn't considered, because I don't think I've ever seen a need for such a situation, but I can't argue that such a situation would never come up.

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Originally Posted by Metabug

Moogle EX.

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Which could be dealt with by hitting the healers with the enmity eraser assuming everyone is playing their part correctly.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

I wanna know whats the regular job for dark knight.

Swordsman or are they going gladiator and then advance job.

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They have explicitly stated that DRK, Machinist, and Astrologian will not have base classes.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

I wanna know whats the regular job for dark knight.

Swordsman or are they going gladiator and then advance job.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

They have explicitly stated that DRK, Machinist, and Astrologian will not have base classes.

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Ya Dark Knight, machinist, and Astrologian are the new breed of Jobs for FF14ARR and most likely future Jobs may follow their design for no classes.

These 3 new Jobs will start out as Jobs and will not have classes. This does not mean that they're removing the class system but instead they are only making Jobs now that will not have their own class. Current Classes in the game will still remain in FF14ARR.

However, being pure Jobs that means certain things may be limited such as Retainers may not become DK, Mach, and Astro. Along with that these Jobs may only be allowed to maintain only 2 classes for their cross-skills.

Another is that these Jobs have been mentioned that new characters/new players will not be able to start out as DK, Mach, and Astro just like how Rog/Nin unlock functions but the only requirement to unlock these 3 Jobs is to Unlock Armary System and find/reach their Job Trainer (there is no Main Story requirement so new characters and go right into these 3 Jobs even if they are in 2.0 Main Scenario). Their Job Trainer location is unknown for now so they can be placed anywhere once 3.0 is released due to being Job Trainers which are not bound to City-States, unless lore demands it, like the Class Guild Trainers but their location may affect players ability to access these trainers if they are placed into certain places like the new Sky Continent or a area surround by high level enemies.

Depending how they handle this new set up it is possible DK, Mach, and Astro may or may not provide new cross-skills. If these 3 New jobs do not provide cross-skills it may be setting up Gla, Pug, Mar, Thau, Cnj, Acn, Arc, Lnc, and Rog as the main source for cross-skills which would drive people to go back to these 9 classes to obtain any future cross-skills released in the lvl 50 or higher levels.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

I wanna know whats the regular job for dark knight.

Swordsman or are they going gladiator and then advance job.

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Neither?
They're a Dark Knight from the start

Pretty sure DRK will have to cross from GLA or risk being obsolete, for one simple reason. Provoke. If DRK can't tank swap then it can't do half the content in the game right now. So unless it has it's own form of provoke, I'm gonna say GLA and MRD based on bloodbath as I think DRK will likely be about hp drain. With GLA and THM being a possible option if dark Magic is a big part of it for swift and surecast to get drains off etc.

Another possiblity is that with the expansion they are going to remove cross class restrictions for jobs and just let anyone take anything. yes this would make classes entirely obsolete but I think that's the direction they're going for. Besides they'd still have their 10 cross class spots.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Pretty sure DRK will have to cross from GLA or risk being obsolete, for one simple reason. Provoke. If DRK can't tank swap then it can't do half the content in the game right now. So unless it has it's own form of provoke, I'm gonna say GLA and MRD based on bloodbath as I think DRK will likely be about hp drain. With GLA and THM being a possible option if dark Magic is a big part of it for swift and surecast to get drains off etc.

Another possiblity is that with the expansion they are going to remove cross class restrictions for jobs and just let anyone take anything. yes this would make classes entirely obsolete but I think that's the direction they're going for. Besides they'd still have their 10 cross class spots.

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There is always the posibility that DK does obtain it own version of Provoke if it does not obtain GLA cross-skills but with a unique twist in how it works while still making it viable for Tank Swapping with other tanks. While it would be easy to just slap in GLA cross-skills for all new Tank Jobs. It would just be a cheap lazy way of doing things which would result in all Tanks, current and future, to always have GLA cross-skills.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Dark Knight - Marauder and ----

Machinist - Archer and Pugilist

Astrologian - Conjurer and Arcanist

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Well, since this game is trying so hard to be Final Fantasy 4 junior, I'd say: Dark Knight is Gladiator and Lancer, after all that Cecil goodie two shoes is Dark Knight/Paladin, and Blood 4 Blood fits perfectly with the nature of Dark Knight.

Machinist would be Archer and Rogue since the devs keep on saying Machinists are suppose to be agile.

And I can't see a healing class without Swiftcast, but I can see one without stoneskin, also Archanist fits the vibe of Astrologist more than Conjurer so Astrologist I'd say Thaumaturge and Archanist.

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Originally Posted by Zeful

Astrologian will almost certainly crossclass CNJ/THM unless they get an instant raise as one of their CDs, then you can argue Arcanist as the second.

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This would be pretty terrible if they didn't have access to Swiftcast.

I'm actually expecting them to up the number of classes each job can pull from to 3 in the expansion. If nothing else, every class is going to have another slot to cross-class a skill in but some classes barely have enough to fill 5 as is (WHM...) nevermind five actually really desirable choices, so yeah. I also expect a minimum of newly introduced skills post 50 so I don't really expect any new cross classes to show from there.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

This would be pretty terrible if they didn't have access to Swiftcast.

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They could always have their own version of Swiftcast or a skill similar to Swiftcast but works differently.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

I'm actually expecting them to up the number of classes each job can pull from to 3 in the expansion. If nothing else, every class is going to have another slot to cross-class a skill in but some classes barely have enough to fill 5 as is (WHM...) nevermind five actually really desirable choices, so yeah. I also expect a minimum of newly introduced skills post 50 so I don't really expect any new cross classes to show from there.

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Also expecting them to add a 3rd choice of class cross-skill. PLD and WAR could benefit a lot from being able to choose Keen Flurry from Lancers as an example.

DRK will be marauder and lancer, SE said it would be a parry tank, Keen Flurry, invigorate and feint would serve it well, but i fear some will use blood for blood lol.

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Originally Posted by Renik

DRK will be marauder and lancer, SE said it would be a parry tank, Keen Flurry, invigorate and feint would serve it well, but i fear some will use blood for blood lol.

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SE may not give any damage buff to Dark Knight, but if you have maurder at least you can cast blood bath which almost last as long as b4b. I'm still feeling gladiator though, Dark Knight doesn't have much ways of self heal usually.

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Originally Posted by thunderbreak

Dark Knight doesn't have much ways of self heal usually.

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"Master of All Swords! Cut energy! Night sword!"
all 3 of the new classes were present in Final Fantasy Tactics, where the Dark Knight class had drain attacks to restore HP, which has also been a big feature of the class for a long time

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Originally Posted by kyuven

"Master of All Swords! Cut energy! Night sword!"
all 3 of the new classes were present in Final Fantasy Tactics, where the Dark Knight class had drain attacks to restore HP, which has also been a big feature of the class for a long time

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Well I hope you are right, although this game doesn't seem to take much after Tactics. Based on what I seen so far, Astrologan isn't a healing class in tactics, Machinist doesn't play like engineer. So I seriously doubt they'll model Dark Knight after tactics.

I'm still going with my thoery of the Dark Knight from this game modeled after FF4 based on weapon and design and the trending of this game.

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Originally Posted by thunderbreak

SE may not give any damage buff to Dark Knight, but if you have maurder at least you can cast blood bath which almost last as long as b4b. I'm still feeling gladiator though, Dark Knight doesn't have much ways of self heal usually.

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A combination of bloodbath and blood for blood would be good to get a DMG boost relieving the def penalty, but i would not serve as self healing, all healing would be lost to compensate the loss of def, i expect a drain or combos with drain effect for DRK self healing.

Gladiator could work as well, but i can't imagine a dark knight using flash lol.

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Originally Posted by BlueThunder

Also expecting them to add a 3rd choice of class cross-skill. PLD and WAR could benefit a lot from being able to choose Keen Flurry from Lancers as an example.

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Not to mention Invigorate... Until you can see other party members' TP on the party list, having a personal source of extra TP would be invaluable, as you can't always spare the time to type a request... if you even have a nin/brd in the party.
(TBH, I wish they'd make the TP recovering items usable outside of PVP as well... It just makes things unbalanced -- mages have items to provide them with more skill/spell use, but TP-using classes don't?)

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Originally Posted by Renik

A combination of bloodbath and blood for blood would be good to get a DMG boost relieving the def penalty, but i would not serve as self healing, all healing would be lost to compensate the loss of def, i expect a drain or combos with drain effect for DRK self healing.

Gladiator could work as well, but i can't imagine a dark knight using flash lol.

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My friend have an interesting theory, maybe Dark Knight isn't going to be about self healing, but it's going to work like the warriors and bears from WoW. As you take damage or self damage, you build a resource bar and you can use the resource bar to do various things and abilities. That actually sounds very logical if this is what Dark Knight ends up being.

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

as you can't always spare the time to type a request... if you even have a nin/brd in the party.

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Come on man, how many of them actually comply anyways lol?

AST has to have BLM or it will be gimped to the max. Swiftcast is too OP.

I think DRK is going to use ROG as one of its base classes for Perfect Dodge and Goad. They had mentioned it was going to be a parry/evade tank so that makes some sense to me.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

AST has to have BLM or it will be gimped to the max. Swiftcast is too OP.

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But if AST has its own version of Swiftcast and has Tha Swiftcast at the sametime then it will have Double Swiftcast.

Now that will be a Super OP Healer Job! :p

Jokes aside:

If that kind of thing happens then AST would run WHM and SCH out of Buisness for having two swiftcast like skills. :)

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

I think DRK is going to use ROG as one of its base classes for Perfect Dodge and Goad. They had mentioned it was going to be a parry/evade tank so that makes some sense to me.

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I don't recall what type of tank DK may be since the only info we got during the revealing was this...

http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/mida...k-epl-1025.jpg

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

\I don't recall what type of tank DK may be since the only info we got during the revealing was this...

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When discussing it at some point during that show, he said something about the DRK play style would be a parry/evasion tank with dark magic powers.

It was in the original batch of info that came out from the show when it was announced, I'm not going to go find it.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

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Oh that where it was mentioned. While interesting thing to note I'm a bit concerned how DK would work as a Tank. There is a lot of big hitting attacks that tanks must face and not all can be parry/evaded.

I hope there is a proper type of mitigration or HP boost in their Tank Stance to balance out the factor with unavoidable skills.

I don't believe any of the new classes are gonna have cross skills. I think they will get their own version of needed skills from the original classes. I hope so, because like I believe that these jobs need to be more unique, not feel like cookie cutter jobs. I want variety in not only the Jobs but also the functionality of the jobs. SE, give us something with these jobs to make them unique so as to have many different playstyles and builds.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Oh that where it was mentioned. While interesting thing to note I'm a bit concerned how DK would work as a Tank. There is a lot of big hitting attacks that tanks must face and not all can be parry/evaded.

I hope there is a proper type of mitigration or HP boost in their Tank Stance to balance out the factor with unavoidable skills.

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I'd like to think they'd learned their lesson with the WAR in 2.0. I'm guessing DRK will be as much a parry/evasion tank as WAR is a drain tank currently.