The Zodiac Quests need to be adjusted / fine-tuned on a patch-by-patch basis

This is merely my opinion - so don't bite my head off if you disagree. I am ***"NOT"*** making the argument that these items should be obtained any faster than how they are currently obtained. However, I think there are certain areas of the Zodiac questline that need to be adjusted / updated on a patch-by-patch basis.

To many, the Zodiac questline is a rewarding and fun way to spend their time (emphasis on spending of time). The main problem I have with the questline - is that the hardcore player is benefited while the casual is hindered.

Examples:
1) When the nexus questline was released - an item level 110 Novus was a more than an adequate weapon to have in dungeons / trials. Now - it is less so for players just arriving at the nexus stage.

2) When nexus was first released - there were countless players spamming trials / dungeons / etc. making it quicker to obtain light. Now - not much at all for players just arriving at the nexus stage.

3) Today - there are countless nexus players spamming dungeons for drops in DF. In a few months - you'll have the one person with nexus and a few others who are brand new to the dungeon likely quadrupling the time it takes to complete.

Basically these quests are being developed in a way where they are harder to complete the later you are to the game. I don't think any of these should be made easier - but I think adjustments should be made so that the time it takes to complete these quests does not go up. Sometimes that is unavoidable - but here I feel that there could be easy remedies if SE paid more attention to these quests each update.

Thoughts?

I've thought about point 3) a bit. Ten runs thru WP and no blood drop has me wondering how limited my window of opportunity is before DPS queues become unmanageable again. I can only imagine how bad the grind will be once the initial rush dies down.
That being said... it was nice of SE to allow someone to go in as an alt class.

For books, they could decrease the FATE timers by 25% (FATE is the only one that stop you to make a book in just some hours)
For Alexandrite, they could increase the soldiery rewards during 2.5 (also selling a stronger spirit bound potion in the GC shop)
For light farming, they could double the amount of light a content give you (maybe with 3.0 or 3.1)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

For books, they could decrease the FATE timers by 25% (FATE is the only one that stop you to make a book in just some hours)
For Alexandrite, they could increase the soldiery rewards during 2.5
For light farming, they could double the amount of light a content give you (maybe with 3.0 or 3.1)

---

Personally - I don't think the books need to be nerfed because I feel that everyone is in the same boat as the players before. I think soldiery rewards will increase in 2.5 similar to how myth rewards increased in 2.3. I think for light - they should allow you to use any weapon of your choice and adjust light bonuses based on the average light level of the team attempting the fight or potentially have duty roulette light bonuses.

I only hate one thing of this quest, that involves crafting classes 3, 3, 3, stars.... I really hate it, people can go and sell some eternal bond bracelets and then use that gil for buying those 3 star recipes while the rest of mortals have to somehow gain the gil to achieve that by other slow very slow methods....

Doing dungeons is fine for me, you can even use other classes, that's a relief.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Personally - I don't think the books need to be nerfed because I feel that everyone is in the same boat as the players before. I think soldiery rewards will increase in 2.5 similar to how myth rewards increased in 2.3. I think for light - they should allow you to use any weapon of your choice and adjust light bonuses based on the average light level of the team attempting the fight or potentially have duty roulette light bonuses.

---

I would love for light to be gathered by other roles other than to have your nexus equipped. It's one of the things I least enjoy about the process. The new relic hunt is so much more refreshing allowing many of us to change up and still get what we need.

While I do agree that, the later in you are, the harder it becomes, there are a few things that never end in a way.

1) Nexus primal grinding is still a thing. (http://www.reddit.com/live/tlfmtjl4fteo)
2) Dungeons (Fast ques now, lots of speed runs happening)

Honestly, you can still catch up all the way to the end but in some cases it might not even be worth it. If you were someone who was thinking of the grind now from the outside, then it's probably better to wait till expansion and the new relics.

At this point, the relic is more for the people who have kept up to date with it then for those getting into it. Most people don't get a second relic because of the grind in itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I would love for light to be gathered by other roles other than to have your nexus equipped. It's one of the things I least enjoy about the process. The new relic hunt is so much more refreshing allowing many of us to change up and still get what we need.

---

This so much. I want my Monk nexus but monk in a dungeon is just so bad. I enjoy playing heals and tanks in dungeons and if I go dps I go blm because its simply the best for any dungeon. And grinding primals without a static is impossible as dps, the queue times are way too long and barely anyone still grinds light on my server. They should just make it the same mechanic as the new relic quest, give us light as long as we have a novus weapon with us, dont give us light when we have more than 1 one with us, that way its well defined to which weapon the light goes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adrian74

I only hate one thing of this quest, that involves crafting classes 3, 3, 3, stars.... I really hate it, people can go and sell some eternal bond bracelets and then use that gil for buying those 3 star recipes while the rest of mortals have to somehow gain the gil to achieve that by other slow very slow methods....

Doing dungeons is fine for me, you can even use other classes, that's a relief.

---

The ingredients are not rare or expensive, except for the fish. A FC member asked me what the pumice she just gathered was for, then offered to put it in the chest. I told her to sell it, because the stuff will be going for 200 gil each in a month. Same goes for Cypress Logs. Desynth items will soon be dropping to around 25k each on MB, cheaper to make if you have that desynth leveled, Beldah'ian glass is a common drop that it will be under 20k each in a month.

Two quests end with turning in the crafted item, wait until you are ready to finish them all before collecting your turn in items. You can hold off on the other two until that time as well (just make sure you buy your sacred spring water for 1600 tomes and bombard cores for 20k GC seals). By that time, you'll be able to buy all 8 for a fraction of what many spent getting +31 DET on their weapon.

If their plan is to use the relics from pre-expansion for the post expansion quest and upgrade, there would have to be significant nerfs to the current upgrade process as a whole. The reason for this is that when the expansion comes out significantly less of the population will be doing that content, which means that significantly less of the population will be able to help with the parts that cannot be soloed. Things like the fates and dungeons.

If this is their plan and they do not make major changes, then it seems their only other logical option would be to create a kind of catch up quest that would serve as the upgrade.

The most likely scenario is gear reset, that's how other MMOs do it when expansions are released. The current Relic quest ends, a new one begins with a new Relic in Heavensward. Everyone starts at the beginning again, just like when 2.0 launched.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illya

The most likely scenario is gear reset, that's how other MMOs do it when expansions are released. The current Relic quest ends, a new one begins with a new Relic in Heavensward. Everyone starts at the beginning again, just like when 2.0 launched.

---

To me - it would be infinitely better at expansion time if SE started a new relic quest but ALSO allowed 2.0 relics to be upgraded further (with a slight variation on stats / benefits). That way new players don't fall behind and can start a new relic questline - and veterans can continue to upgrade their 2.0 relics and also start the new questline if they so desire.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

To me - it would be infinitely better at expansion time if SE started a new relic quest but ALSO allowed 2.0 relics to be upgraded further (with a slight variation on stats / benefits). That way new players don't fall behind and can start a new relic questline - and veterans can continue to upgrade their 2.0 relics and also start the new questline if they so desire.

---

EQ did something similar when they launched their 2.0 epic weapons. In this game every class had an epic weapon, pretty much the same as relics in this game. However, knowing that many players had either not done them for one reason or another, or had little time to devout to acquiring the former prior to starting on the next they created kind of 1.5 bridge quest.

Now system worked as such, if you had the 1.0 epic weapon one could pick up the quest to start the 2.0 weapon. The player would gather the necessary items and complete the necessary fights for the weapon, and receive their new weapon. If a player did not have the 1.0 weapon, a NPC would sent them about the world collecting items to return to the NPC and then be rewarded with a 1.5 variant of their epic weapon. This was done because typically the people of whom had completed the 1.0 version were usually those of whom belonged to raid guilds and or had numerous friends that were able to help them. The 1.5 quest was essentially for the casuals.

Now, it is possible that this game could do something similar, however it seems more likely that they would just start everyone off on the same foot with a new relic.

Crafting items requiered for quest should be 1 star and the amount of Solds required should be 900

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mature

Crafting items requiered for quest should be 1 star and the amount of Solds required should be 900

---

this would be no grind

The relic weapon chain to me says they do not want new subscribers. If you told me from day one it would take a year of constant grinding to get a weapon that is underpowered at that time my basic response is going to be GFY.
There seems to be a lack of thought behind of quite a bit in this game and the impact the choices will have on a new player 2 yrs into the life of the game. Do they not see themselves lasting long enough for any of this to matter?

they just need to add a new title for obtaining all the Zodiac Relics like they did for the first batch. <The Insane> . cause you have to be in order to grid that many atma/books/Alex&Materia/Light/Crafting for 9 different weapons. + people would actually do this and prove how insane they are to the world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mercutial

I've thought about point 3) a bit. Ten runs thru WP and no blood drop has me wondering how limited my window of opportunity is before DPS queues become unmanageable again.

---

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...factsfaqhowto/

(7) You can be on another job/class and still get the item drops from the dungeons.

Time to go and tank that crap if you want instant queues :D

As someone still working on the books, it is a daunting uphill battle that's pretty discouraging.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eggnook24

As someone still working on the books, it is a daunting uphill battle that's pretty discouraging.

---

One that will only get worse for people whom are just starting the game when the vast majority of players are 60 in the expansion.

Square boosted the Atma drops, so that's a first step. However, I can safely bet that they will take a LONG time to ease the other steps so that there won't be a ton of people suddenly burning through every relic quest and getting the last one in a short time.

I honestly wouldn't be upset if they even just removed the FATE section of the books at this point. I don't care about making other players sit around miserably for that stupidness at this point. Especially i100 weapons are pretty much falling by the wasteside with Shiva Ex runs.

I definitely don't wanna make a second one, that's for sure. Can't wait for my Nirvana though...

They will up the Drop rate of Alex, They will make 100% or close to it at all melds, They will make the new dungeon drops 100% or close to it.
There are lots of little things they can do when people move on to new content to make old content quicker.

Finally. Cash shop for 2.5 final stage Weapon when 3.2 or later comes out. Not pay to win so much as pay to skip outdated content not new content.

Before 2.45, I read some players like to say "relic for dummies only", skillful players don't need it etc.
However, everytime I saw ppl equipped it, at least I know this player has drive his job long enough like an experienced pilot.

So now suddely I feel relic is the greatest joke in ARR. ^^;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

If their plan is to use the relics from pre-expansion for the post expansion quest and upgrade, there would have to be significant nerfs to the current upgrade process as a whole. The reason for this is that when the expansion comes out significantly less of the population will be doing that content, which means that significantly less of the population will be able to help with the parts that cannot be soloed. Things like the fates and dungeons.

If this is their plan and they do not make major changes, then it seems their only other logical option would be to create a kind of catch up quest that would serve as the upgrade.

---

Or we can socialize with others and maybe sometimes our friends will want to do contents with us when they want a break from their own? :x

heavensward will reset the relic questline somehow. either there will be new questline. the only thing you would get from having maxed lvl 50 relic would probaly be that you can trade it in and get the new one insantly while new players would have to do the new quest first. there is just no way all the current things have to be done in order still for a new player on 3.0 as that would be outright stupid doing all that for an lvl 50 item thats totally outdated in every way compared to a lvl 60 easy to get weapon. nobody in his right mind would do that ever.

the only way this would work is trough MASSIV nerfs to the current line aka heavly streamlining it. there is just nothing else that can happen. i dont think yoschi wants to piss new possible customers off and heavensward will very likely bring lots of em. it wouldnt be very smart from a selling point of view guys. so dont hold your breath on your current relic i say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lillia

Or we can socialize with others and maybe sometimes our friends will want to do contents with us when they want a break from their own? :x

---

Perhaps. However I wouldn't want some new player or one returning from a long absence to be counting on that. And if they cannot get friends help, then what?

Animus FATEs were annoying to camp. Getting the alexandrite was a nice thing and not toooo grindy. Getting light though... especially if you want to play other jobs as well(like heal, tank to help out people) is what bugs me the most. But yeah I don't expect them to boost light for a while so until then gonna be making some gil off of the stuff that's needed for the zodiac upgrades.

As someone who just switched jobs, I kinda feel gated from a lot at the moment... And I know I'm gonna get a lot of stick for it, but that won't change my opinion...

I know that higher than an ilvl 115 weapon isn't needed if I'm not progressing in Final Coil, but that doesn't mean I want to stay with this weapon forever... and it would make it a little easier doing Final coil too.

My options are to either grind grind grind for the new Relic (from scratch), which would take me forever... or just wait for the new CT and hope it will drop the item that lets me get the 120 Ironworks weapon. Would probably take the same amount of time, which is a long time. But even then, 120 won't be that good, because the relic is 125, and I'm sure people are already on their way towards 130 or 135 relic weapon by then...

At the moment it feels like if you want to stay relevant with your weapon, you either have to keep playing on 1 job for all eternity and keep farming the new relic quests... or get a static and go hardcore to get the weapon from Final Coil.

I don't want to do either of those, so please SE, offer some more alternatives, or just make the Relic quest up to the new quest, a lot easier... At least if you have done the quests with another job, there should be some bonus the second time. I mean, you can get a 115 weapon by killing Shiva (very easy fight) 5 times if you're lucky... Meanwhile getting Nexus from scratch takes months. Makes no sense

they do make it easier over time...all the time.
zenith items has gotten cheaper, with every new tome introduced.
echo made the trials a lot easier, so does higher ilv, and nerfing mechanics.
atma drops have increased.
book prices has dropped a lot.
fate spawn rates have increased.
there's still linkshells that are focused on light farming.
and in a few months, we'll have expansion; probably with lv 60 relics, at which point the ones we have now, won't be used anymore.

What he's saying is that if you don't have a nexus by now, then your weapon isn't even stronger than a drop you can get from running shiva EX 5 times. So if a new player is to come into the relic line at this very moment they would have to do a lot of time wasting just to compete with what they can get with way less effort.

The Atma rate buff was a nice buff, but it was one that needed to come much sooner. The animus books are cheap enough but some of the enemy/fates required need to be cut down, and the novus needs to not require 75 alexandrites.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coatl

What he's saying is that if you don't have a nexus by now, then your weapon isn't even stronger than a drop you can get from running shiva EX 5 times. So if a new player is to come into the relic line at this very moment they would have to do a lot of time wasting just to compete with what they can get with way less effort.

---

This.

I think the point that is getting lost here is not that each INDIVIDUAL step is too hard, but that trying to get them all done QUICKLY in order to catch up if you are a new or returning player is near impossible. I swapped from WHM to SMN for raid and am pursuing the relic because the Ironworks book is garbage (on Animus stage ATM lmao), but I guarantee I'll have the Dreadwyrm grimoire before I'm done so I'm kind of wondering why I'm even bothering. >__>

I guess my cold comfort is that the relic quest isn't really MANDATORY, but I miss when the weapons were a skill check (two trial fights and HM primals) rather than a timesink. Not sure why they introduced a tomesink weapon IN ADDITION to the relic when they could have just gated the relic behind tome caps like they used to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coatl

What he's saying is that if you don't have a nexus by now, then your weapon isn't even stronger than a drop you can get from running shiva EX 5 times. So if a new player is to come into the relic line at this very moment they would have to do a lot of time wasting just to compete with what they can get with way less effort.

The Atma rate buff was a nice buff, but it was one that needed to come much sooner. The animus books are cheap enough but some of the enemy/fates required need to be cut down, and the novus needs to not require 75 alexandrites.

---

Yep that's why I don't bother with it lol. Getting the ilv 80 and then 90 Relic Weapon is easy and fast. The Atma is quite doable too.

Grinding for weeks to get the 75 Alexandrites + 75 Materia is a major pain in the rear for a guy who got to Lv.50 10 days ago =)

That's why I use the ilv.110 Soldiery weapon lol.

That moment when you realize SE is just using Relic to push old content

Not enough people spamming Fates? ATMA!
Not enough people spamming Garuda Hard? Lights!
Not enough people spamming crappy, outdated dungeons outside of Expert Roulette? ....

Yup, reused content like this needs to go.

Give us unique boss fights, 8 man instances , fraction leves, etc. Stop putting legendary relics with reused, boring content :(

Yeah, it seems they are not even trying with the new relic quests now. When it first released it was fun doing trials made specifically for it and fighting primals for the items which are 100% drop. Now its just using the relic quest to fix their past issues with not enough people doing fates, people having slow queues so they make last step dungeon grind to make low levels get carried and hard mode primals with light to get people past that as well. I am really disappointed in SE because they turned a good idea into a a boring grind and this led to people not caring about the relic. I mean after the way people responded about rng they do it again? It just shows they don't really care so long they get what they want in the end faster queues for people and making the world feel alive when PS4 version released with Atma. Also why link it to crafting? I mean really why? I dont understand and why 3 star mean wtf? gg SE gg...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remus

I am really disappointed in SE because they turned a good idea into a a boring grind and this led to people not caring about the relic.

---

This. I had to stop working on Zodiak because it stopped being fun -- and "fun," is I believe what we are all paying for here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remus

Yeah, it seems they are not even trying with the new relic quests now. When it first released it was fun doing trials made specifically for it and fighting primals for the items which are 100% drop.

---

On a side note, I am kind of disappointed with the relic quest and upgrade. It's the same for everyone. For a company that tries to go with the lore as much as possible, this is one of those things that they just didn't do. It would be nice if the quest for each class/job was unique to them. I think it would also make the whole process more rewarding.

Totally in agreement with this. I came back on 2.4 just after leaving since 2.2... I grinded the atma, began books... saw the new relic quest and said screw it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Radacci

and in a few months, we'll have expansion; probably with lv 60 relics, at which point the ones we have now, won't be used anymore.

---

wich is exactly why the relic isnt rewarding anymore they have been always subpar to the coil weapons at this point of time its better to just not do it get a primal weapon and go on to coil to get the dreadwyrm one or the ironworks one and then wait for heavensward for the new relic