MNK or NIN?

Basically, I've gotten both my MNK and my NIN to level 50 and I plan on maining one. My question is, since I've looked around and haven't been able to find a better answer;

Which one is the better DPS?

I feel like I'm more partial to the MNK rotation than a NIN rotation, but that could just be NIN being somewhat slower. Out of both rotations, the MNK rotation seems more... indepth, seems more difficult to pull off correctly. Am I correct in thinking like this?

Out both of them, which one do you think has the most capability to outshine the other. As in, what is more impressive a good MNK or a good NIN?

Thanks in advance.

MNK is still the highest single target DPS. Final Coil bosses have hardly any downtime unlike previous coils so you won't lose GL3 if you are good. There's maybe 1 occasion each in 12 (transition to adds phase) and 13 (Teraflare) but you'll have PB back up for both those times.

NIN is only maybe 10-15 dps behind though, and the utility they bring to the raid more than makes up for it.

My worry is, more than likely that NIN will be nerfed next patch. It seems way too powerful.

DRG
/10char

People often overlook the excellent utility of Monk. Dragon Kick is amazing mitigation, and full Mantra really eases the burden on Healers during raid wide AOE damage.

People really don't understand Ninja that well. It's not overly powerful, so much as Dragoon is lacking right now. For example Ninja's high potency and fewer positional attacks are to balance Ninjutsu taking about a GCD to execute, and Huton does no damage by it's self.

not to mention, Huton is literally dragoon's heavy thrust (arguably, ninja's huton is inferior to HT) and part of monk's GL.

the 15% skill speed boost is necessary to keep ninja on par with DPS (without it, look at how horrible ninja DPS is).

The Final Binding Coil of Dragon Kick

Neither. Level Warrior or Rodeo Clown. They play like a DPS but without the 5 min+ wait time on anything you want to do.

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Originally Posted by Ixsiehn

not to mention, Huton is literally dragoon's heavy thrust (arguably, ninja's huton is inferior to HT) and part of monk's GL.

the 15% skill speed boost is necessary to keep ninja on par with DPS (without it, look at how horrible ninja DPS is).

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Let me just toggle my 20% damage boost on dragoon. Oh wait.

make what you want, but I imagine the only class not receiving a change atm will be monk. Expect nin to be nerfed and drg to be buffed.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

make what you want, but I imagine the only class not receiving a change atm will be monk. Expect nin to be nerfed and drg to be buffed.

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So why is it you expect Ninja to be nerfed. I've yet to hear a good reason which didn't amount to on paper they might seem overpowered.

If you're adept at moving around an enemy to maximize damage, Monk is for you. If you like using different types of attacks and utility moves without the confusion, Ninja's your job. Both can decimate single targets and contribute some degree of AoE damage. You can't go wrong either way as Gloam armor (not accessories, though) fits both jobs.

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Originally Posted by dday3six

People often overlook the excellent utility of Monk. Dragon Kick is amazing mitigation, and full Mantra really eases the burden on Healers during raid wide AOE damage.

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For now, yes, Dragon Kick doubles as personal damage ability as well as an (unintended) magic damage mitigator*. Mantra is really useful for T12 adds phase once the stacks start reaching double digits during the third phase.
Both these issues will solve themselves when the players get more geared for it, however. Thus monk utility is only temporary.

* It's up all the time anyway if the monk knows what he/she's doing, regardless of the intelligence debuff or not.

Let's put it this way...

When I am on my i109 NIN I will almost always get out-dps'ed by an equally geared MNK that I respect (ability-wise). HOWEVER, I will absolutely smoke MNK dps in Golems and on Ghost in T9 due to NIN's burst dps. If you get 20-40 seconds between having to dps (1st golems, 2 golems, ghost) having that dead space of Ninjitsu can really boost your dps relative to other classes, allowing you to TA/Raiton/Kassatsu without burning an active 20s on Huton.

I think its too early to tell how good/average/bad NINs can really be. I haven't seen anyone blow my mind on NIN yet, but I'm sure its possible.

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Originally Posted by dday3six

So why is it you expect Ninja to be nerfed. I've yet to hear a good reason which didn't amount to on paper they might seem overpowered.

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They have more utility than dragoons, and trump their dps. I think nin and dragoon should at least be on equal damage output, and definitely always and significantly behind monk due to both nin and drg increasing the damage of party members. That nin is close to mnk and has the best utility of the 3 should make it pretty easy to see a lack of balance.

Arguing that monk has dragonkick and mantra is no argument imo. These are not damage support skills, such as what nin, drg and bard have.

Let me just say that while putting forth double effort on MNK, it only gains 10-15 DPS over my equally geared NIN.

It comes down to your raw ability in high-pressure encounters, static composition and preferred utility. +10% Party Damage/60s, Goad, untraited Mantra vs. Traited Mantra and Dragon Kick.


EDIT: NIN will not be nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

They have more utility than dragoons, and trump their dps. I think nin and dragoon should at least be on equal damage output, and definitely always and significantly behind monk due to both nin and drg increasing the damage of party members. That nin is close to mnk and has the best utility of the 3 should make it pretty easy to see a lack of balance.

Arguing that monk has dragonkick and mantra is no argument imo. These are not damage support skills, such as what nin, drg and bard have.

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DRG is lacking therefore nerf NIN rather than buff DRG, that will convince people to want DRG in raids and not just 2 MNK.

Completely dismiss a near continual INT debuff, not like Magic is a common damage type of anything.

Right now NIN has a spot at the table. DRG needs work to have one. All a NIN nerf would do is ensure MNK is the go to Melee DPS. One job heavily favored is not balance.

Mo buffs, Mo nerfs. Everyone let's just play nice, ok. But in all seriousness, I don't think NIN's will get nerfed at all. DRG's may get a buff but not like the MNK buff back in the day. You may see the dev's add something to BfB's trait or something. But it's all speculation. Honestly if I had to do it all over again from scratch, I'd choose MNK

I don't understand you people ninja is not op just because it does abit more damage then drg and mnk doesn't make it op want op look at blm its op and they have yet to nerf it

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

make what you want, but I imagine the only class not receiving a change atm will be monk. Expect nin to be nerfed and drg to be buffed.

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Right... lets put DRG to where Ninja are now and nerf Ninjas to the point where DRG are atm and call it balance.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

Right... lets put DRG to where Ninja are now and nerf Ninjas to the point where DRG are atm and call it balance.

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Not trolling but id actually call that balance. Assuming equal dps one would always choose NIN over DRG because of more utility and NIN being less effected by mechanics.

Alternative would obviously be to give more utility to DRG instead.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Not trolling but id actually call that balance. Assuming equal dps one would always choose NIN over DRG becaushttp://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2601864e of more utility and NIN being less effected by mechanics.

Alternative would obviously be to give more utility to DRG instead.

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How would that be balance? There are already plans to buff dragoons to put them there where the other melees are now, it wouldn't make sense to nerf ninjas to have monks and dragoons topping the meters. Ninjas right now are in their right place and don't need a nerf, only dragoons can't be ignored anymore and do need a buff which they are getting.
Alot of people seem to forget Dragon Kick too which monks have, this skill alone is gold in the final coils, because litteraly everything that hits your group is magic.

Besides a Ninja in your group will be your best friend with Goad, he will push your DPS by alot in longer fights, why would you want him nerfed when DRGs get buffed anyway.

I think you would benefit the most if you don't leave neither behind then ask yourself what you want to play the most.

Its true that Ninjas have the 'Vulnerability Down' debuff, which draws an extra 10% damage from everyone's attacks for 10 seconds, and are self sufficient for their self power boosts, however they often lack on the Defensive department and can easily find themselves on the red with no way to get back up or be on the defensive for too long.

Whilst Monks might not have a way to boost anyone's damage output but themselves, but their defensive move repertory isn't half bad, which allows them to give support to healers and tanks by reducing the enemy's INT for all those magic based moves, and boosting the heal powers of nearby party members (often the tanks), on top of that, they have a few more defensive moves for self survival.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Alternative would obviously be to give more utility to DRG instead.

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Just a thought, but wouldn't that require a complete re-work of DRG though?

Ninjas can go a bit crazy on their moves, but be mindful of silence, Jugulate is very important for silencing when necessary.
Monks might have a bit of trouble with their positional requirements, but all you lose is the maximum DPS output, the side effects, buffs and debuffs will all still proc, so its not that unforgiving.

Ninja's 'Vulnerability Down' can hit once every 60 seconds, which lasts for 10 seconds, and if not executed from behind target, it will fail, and good bye Vul-Down for 60 seconds regardless.

Monks can do the 'INT-down' by doing their normal rotation, so expect it to be up in 7.5 seconds in the fight and stay there for as long as it lasts.

Ninjas don't have as much TP troubles as Monks, since they have forced stops every 20 seconds to execute their special moves, it works in favor to their TP recovery, along with the fact that most of their skills arent that TP expensive.

Given this, Ninjas can actually Sprint in battle :v

Monks can be TP hungry, or very TP hungry, or extremely TP hungry depending on how many DoTs their are willing to keep up. On accordance to that, their TP can be self-sufficient from 10 to 3 minutes.

I would say try both classes out in raids and decide from there.
Really if you prefer a class do not be so concerned about dps numbers as they are closer then some think.
You cannot go wrong with either one.

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Originally Posted by Maero

I would say try both classes out in raids and decide from there.
Really if you prefer a class do not be so concerned about dps numbers as they are closer then some think.
You cannot go wrong with either one.

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I agree. I think too much emphasis gets placed on DPS numbers, which is part of the reason why SE has been against using parsers up to this point (that seems to be changing). Bottom line is this:
1. Did your party meet any DPS checks within the raid?
2. Did you survive wipe mechanics while putting little unnecessary stress on the healers?
3. Did your party clear the content?

If the answer to all these is "yes", and you enjoy the job you're playing, keep it.

I'd say mnk, literally everyone and their mother is a ninja right now.

It's really quite annoying.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

How would that be balance? There are already plans to buff dragoons to put them there where the other melees are now, it wouldn't make sense to nerf ninjas to have monks and dragoons topping the meters. Ninjas right now are in their right place and don't need a nerf, only dragoons can't be ignored anymore and do need a buff which they are getting.

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Well you have to think a bit further. Why would you bring a DRG if NIN had the same dps but gave you utility on top? You wouldnt.
Assuming same dps people would still ignore DRG.

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Originally Posted by duceTRE

Just a thought, but wouldn't that require a complete re-work of DRG though?

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Wouldnt need to be that complicated actually. Notice how dragon kick, dancing edge and storms eye all have an additional debuff on top of the resistance down (INT and Heal down respectively)? You could just add such a debuff to disembowel like lets say -5% dmg and bam DRG has utility.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Well you have to think a bit further. Why would you bring a DRG if NIN had the same dps but gave you utility on top? You wouldnt.
Assuming same dps people would still ignore DRG.

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This assumes the buff would not include utility as well. I'm inclined to believe SE understands how players value it at this point. Best case scenrio is they add utility to DRG, so it will be a case of choosing which utility is best for your group.