4 guildleves in less than 1 hour=1/3rd of the way from 49-50?

So I got some guildleves to test them out after the patch. 2 in Halatali, and 2 in Broken Water. I equip 2 skills, a basic attack and an aoe. I proceed to do them all on 3 stars with guardian's aspect, and get 35k xp in less than an hour.

That is more xp than most get in even a very good XP party, and all I had to do was use 2 skills. It posed no challenge at all, and when I tried 4 stars on the 5th I found I got less XP because of how the system rewards speed (seems imbalanced with difficulty settings). I know that XP chains will help balance this, but come on why so heavily encourage everyone regardless of whether they like to(or have to) play solo to do this?

I thought guildleves were no longer a (the) central feature of this game... hurry up and fix partying so I don't have to do this crap anymore.

You don't have to do it. They're fine as is now. I got about 30k myself doing a set of leves today but I think that's fine. I mean honestly when you used to be able to get 49-50 in 4 hours in Raptor parties (dunno if this is still possible), getting 1/3rd of your rank in one reset (taking 4 days to get all 3 sets done) that's not bad at all.

It's a nice amount of SP for those the leves are intended for, people without a lot of time.

Do you use R49?

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Originally Posted by Aion

Do you use R49?

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What does this mean?

And no a lot of XP for people who don't have a lot of time would be 15-20k. 35k makes it so everyone without a perfect static they can join as soon as they log on either has to do guildleves or they are going to level much slower. Just like it was pre-1.18.

Now I'm all for guildleves being a viable option for leveling for those few who like them, or who can't play with other people. But this was the game's problem before, and the developers even admitted as much. People felt like they had to do guildleves every reset or they were missing out, and well using 2 skills on the same guildleve every 36 hours gets really old after a while (or an instant).

This is exactly why we need the party changes coming in 1.2 to balance this, however even still I think being able to get half a level from 49-50 on 8 guildleves is a little much considering how mindlessly simple they are. Maybe if you were pulling out all stops as this "super solo player", but I was using 2 skills. A basic attack and an aoe. I didn't even equip anything else, no buffs no other weapon skills, because there is no point. The mobs at that difficulty die so fast.

Well to be fair you're doing R40 leves as an R49. Maybe if we had R50 leves they would be harder. Doing R30 leves as an R32 Marauder I had to use quite a few of my skills since I was doing them solo.

So you would be okay with 5 resets to hit 50 instead of 3? I mean the difference is only a few days really. And no you don't have to do them. I guess if you have to level as fast as you possibly can they're good to not miss but to what end? I dunno, I guess I just don't see the need to have everything to R50 as fast as possible.

Did Cedarwood+Cassopeia leves trio today, most on 5s and yarzon/devilts on 3s.

Higher levels gets more SP from bonus (I got 3800 with aspect on one at 27, the L31 got 4700).

Went 7/31k to 20/33k next level? or like 44k in 6 leves at 30s and it seems the XP rate just goes up more as you level up... in trio at 45 I should seem to expect 80k?!

Its a lot better now, can actually get rewards and such too instead of having to just save dunesfolk, ranine etc.

And how many leves can you do in a day? 8? Right.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Day and a half actually, to further press this point. One out of every three days doesn't have a reset.

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How long can you run grind groups? As long as you want?

You can get from 46-49 in a matter of 8 hours (in 1 day) with a continuous grind party whereas you can only do 8 regional leves every 36 hours to get less than a rank's worth of sp?

Yea, no. Party grinding is still the focus of this game.

Leves have higher sp/hour, but that alone is meaningless since they are capped. In fact, they have higher sp/hour for that reason. So a casual player can log in briefly at their own leisure and still stand a chance to get some decent amount of sp.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

And how many leves can you do in a day? 8? Right.

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Day and a half actually, to further press this point. One out of every three days doesn't have a reset.

Honestly

You guys are so shortsighted.

What if they went back to the way they were right after 1.18, AND raised level cap? You'd rage.

ALWAYS remember, There is STILL a lot of content that has NOT been made live yet in XIV. Ishgard, for example.

When Ishgard opens, I am expecting a level cap raise. Level 50 is NOT the highest level in XIV. I imagine that it would be around 65-75.

So with that kind of progression in mind, the CURRENT SP gains from leves are PERFECT. Don't mess with it!

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Well to be fair you're doing R40 leves as an R49. Maybe if we had R50 leves they would be harder. Doing R30 leves as an R32 Marauder I had to use quite a few of my skills since I was doing them solo.

So you would be okay with 5 resets to hit 50 instead of 3? I mean the difference is only a few days really. And no you don't have to do them. I guess if you have to level as fast as you possibly can they're good to not miss but to what end? I dunno, I guess I just don't see the need to have everything to R50 as fast as possible.

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It's simple human behavior, it is not that hard to understand that people will choose the most efficient route unless there is either an internal or external impediment to it. This is why it would be balanced for solo activities to give less XP than group activities, but it is absolutely not balanced for solo and much easier activities at that to give more than grouping.

Reward people properly for grouping, and reward people when they try to challenge themselves. That's all I want. It shouldn't be something people have to force themselves to do solely to prove something to themselves. If this is how shallow they want the leveling curve to be fine... but at least encourage people to seek a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Day and a half actually, to further press this point. One out of every three days doesn't have a reset.

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Fixed. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Fixed. Thank you.

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That's fine and great. Good for people who play casually and by themselves, I'm not against that (except that they are taking up a server spot in a multiplayer game that could otherwise be used by someone I can actually play with). But shouldn't there be a reward for grouping?

Not everyone who likes to group wants to play 8 hours a day just to see a benefit from it over playing solo... stop pigeonholing people.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

That's fine and great. Good for people who play casually and by themselves, I'm not against that (except that they are taking up a server spot in a multiplayer game that could otherwise be used by someone I can actually play with). But shouldn't there be a reward for grouping?

Not everyone who likes to group wants to play 8 hours a day just to see a benefit from it over playing solo... stop pigeonholing people.

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Do your leves every reset at your leisure and find groups to party grind with for further sp when waiting for next reset.

The 8 hours was for a single grind from 46-49. Extreme amount of time for a very large gain in sp.

Nobody is pigeon-holed. It's called options.

You sound like you have something against solo-friendly content. In that case, given how SE has made it clear time and time again that this game will cater to casuals as well as hardcore players and will be solo-friendly, you may not enjoy your stay in this game.

Once you're finished with leves that's it until the next reset. 2 hours tops out of 36. I'd say most people play more than 2 hours a day in which case they'd have to go find a party and grind in some manner to keep progressing.

I have to agree with many of the posters here, I think this is on par for solo content. When you've got only a short time to play, blast through them to still feel like you're making progress even though its by yourself. If you've got a lot of time, do them and continue to do other stuff for further exp.

EDIT HERE -> we can't forget other content is still on the horizon to allow us to all exp not only at our own pace/leisure, but to earn it in our own enjoyable manners. Chocobo escorts and hamlet defense are two things I know they are aiming for. If hamlet defense is like campaign or besieged from XI, then I have found my choice lol

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Do your leves every reset at your leisure and find groups to party grind with for further sp when waiting for next reset.

The 8 hours was for a single grind from 46-49. Extreme amount of time for a very large gain in sp.

Nobody is pigeon-holed. It's called options.

You sound like you have something against solo-friendly content. In that case, given how SE has made it clear time and time again that this game will cater to casuals as well as hardcore players and will be solo-friendly, you may not enjoy your stay in this game.

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They said the game will cater to a number of playstyles, and that grouping would be rewarded.

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The Future of Ranking Up

Ever since I posted on the forums, we’ve been receiving feedback from players worrying about whether or not we’re going to be nerfing the ranking up process. The simple and emphatic answer to this, just as I posted in the forums, is no.

FFXIV is an MMORPG. But before the MMO-ness, it’s an RPG at its core. So it goes without saying that it should be fun to see your character develop and grow. There should be clear-cut goals, and a sense of accomplishment when you achieve them. No need for worries on that front!

I don’t want there to be a huge loss of skill points imposed for dying, or for players to have to grind 5–6 hours a day for 8 months to get to the high ranks. I do think ranking up should take longer in MMOs than in non-MMOs, but I plan to make the process both possible and enjoyable for players willing to invest the time, even if they’re solo, and even by doing quests and guildleves.

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Public Areas and Party Play

We’re hurrying to bring in adjustments to enemy distribution, respawn timers, linked-enemy bonuses, and party bonuses to make skill point awards in public areas even tastier when playing in a party. Regarding linking, the current specs for fixed “enemy groups” will see large-scale changes towards a system more capable of addressing the combat potential of parties.

In attempting to cover the expansiveness of some zones, the current distribution of enemies left some wide gaps between them. This is another area high on our list of priorities that will see heavy adjustments.

Putting together a party isn’t all ponies and rainbows—there’s the time and effort spent getting the setup right and traveling to a camp, the risks involved when battling strong enemies, and so on. It’s an investment on the part of players, and we’re going to make sure skill point awards reflect that.

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That's what I'm referring to. Grouping should not be an option only there for hardcores who want to continue to level after they have exhausted all their guildleves, and sidequests. It should be beneficial from the onset. I'm not against solo rewards, I just want there to be actual rewards for grouping too.

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I don’t want there to be a huge loss of skill points imposed for dying, or for players to have to grind 5–6 hours a day for 8 months to get to the high ranks. I do think ranking up should take longer in MMOs than in non-MMOs, but I plan to make the process both possible and enjoyable for players willing to invest the time, even if they’re solo, and even by doing quests and guildleves.

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This sounds exactly like what the leve quests are now >.> He doesn't want to FORCE people to grind 5-6 hours a day for 8 months to get to high ranks, with how it is now you don't have to no matter how you do it. However if you CHOOSE to grind 5-6 hours a day you'll definitely hit those high ranks faster and the only way to do that is to party up and grind.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

They said the game will cater to a number of playstyles, and that grouping would be rewarded.





That's what I'm referring to. Grouping should not be an option only there for hardcores who want to continue to level after they have exhausted all their guildleves, and sidequests. It should be beneficial from the onset. I'm not against solo rewards, I just want there to be actual rewards for grouping too.

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There is. It's the ability to grind against high rank mobs that give 300+ sp per kill as long as you want - stuff you cannot normally kill yourself at a half-decent rate, and sp you cannot get solo.

Comparing capped, limited content sp to grinding is silly.

Everyone can do their leves solo whenever they want. Someone who always does only that will always get smoked by someone who party grinds regularly.

All you're actually saying is "unless someone spends as much time partying and grinding as I do, they shouldn't even hope to be able to rank up at a decent rate."

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Originally Posted by Arcell

This sounds exactly like what the leve quests are now >.> He doesn't want to FORCE people to grind 5-6 hours a day for 8 months to get to high ranks, with how it is now you don't have to no matter how you do it.

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Nor did you before 1.18a or at anytime in the history of FFXIV. What's your point?

However people who group now have to play significantly longer in order to get the same XP as those who only solo. So why should anyone start grouping until after they've exhausted solo content? If this is the direction of leveling balance, that isn't giving people real options.

I guess this whole thread is kind of jumping the gun though, since we are getting XP chains and party areas in 1.2. Just wanted to point out how ridiculously easy leveling solo is now, and how necessary it is for grouping to get a boost to keep up.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

However people who group now have to play significantly longer in order to get the same XP as those who only solo. So why should anyone start grouping until after they've exhausted solo content? If this is the direction of leveling balance, that isn't giving people real options.

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What? Umm...you know you can do leves in groups right? You can do them as a group (faster I might add) and then go grind if you so choose. If I'm not mistaken at that point you're getting just as much as the solo player and then some.

I think your argument would only be valid if you could do leves non-stop which certainly isn't the case.

It's fine as is now. In fact, I bet won't be long before someone will come and complain how 4 guildleves don't give a full rank from 49-50.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Do your leves every reset at your leisure and find groups to party grind with for further sp when waiting for next reset.

The 8 hours was for a single grind from 46-49. Extreme amount of time for a very large gain in sp.

Nobody is pigeon-holed. It's called options.

You sound like you have something against solo-friendly content. In that case, given how SE has made it clear time and time again that this game will cater to casuals as well as hardcore players and will be solo-friendly, you may not enjoy your stay in this game.

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this and

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Well to be fair you're doing R40 leves as an R49. Maybe if we had R50 leves they would be harder. Doing R30 leves as an R32 Marauder I had to use quite a few of my skills since I was doing them solo.

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ive been hoping R50 leves for months now. im actually kind of surprised they havent implemented this yet.
also, modern games use a plethora of dungeons as a means of grouping for bonus XP/loot not party camping. perhaps this is going to be the games future options to level faster than soloing.

one thing i think they need to fix is the XP LOSS for fighting multiple mobs at once. we have aoe abilities, why shouldnt we be able to aoe them without an XP minus factor?

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

There is. It's the ability to grind against high rank mobs that give 300+ sp per kill as long as you want - stuff you cannot normally kill yourself at a half-decent rate, and sp you cannot get solo.

Comparing capped, limited content sp to grinding is silly.

Everyone can do their leves solo whenever they want. Someone who always does only that will always get smoked by someone who party grinds regularly.

All you're actually saying is "unless someone spends as much time partying and grinding as I do, they shouldn't even hope to be able to rank up at a decent rate."

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No I'm saying that people shouldn't have to devote 8 hours a day to grinding in order to compete with those who like to level through guildleves, because I don't like to do guildleves. A lot of people don't like to do guildleves, or sidequests for that matter. So your answer to us is "oh it's okay though, because you can grind for an unlimited amount of time so in the end it works itself out".

Well maybe there are some people out there who both like to group, and like to do things other than grind nonstop 24/7. Why should people who solo get to spend less time leveling than those who like to group? I don't see the need for such a severe handicap because some people can't be bothered to do things with others. Being antisocial doesn't seem like something we need to go out of our way to reward people for.

I think the bigger concern is that he was one shotting the leve mobs.

I have nothing against the sp bonus from finishing a leve right now provided it takes skillful playing and offers a challenge. but I do have issue with how stupid easy leves are.

Casual != easy.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

I think the bigger concern is that he was one shotting the leve mobs.

I have nothing against the sp bonus from finishing a leve right now provided it takes skillful playing and offers a challenge. but I do have issue with how stupid easy leves are.

Casual != easy.

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But again to be fair he's an R49 doing R40 leves. We don't have R50 leves yet which is why this can happen.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

I think the bigger concern is that he was one shotting the leve mobs.

I have nothing against the sp bonus from finishing a leve right now provided it takes skillful playing and offers a challenge. but I do have issue with how stupid easy leves are.

Casual != easy.

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Exactly, unfortunately if you make them more difficult they will complain. I don't even care if they reduce guildleve XP to be honest, but people should be rewarded for doing something more challenging than this drivel.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

But again to be fair he's an R49 doing R40 leves. We don't have R50 leves yet which is why this can happen.

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It happens at all levels, you are just doing guildleves in a counter intuitive way by trying to challenge yourself. Didn't you get the memo, apparently that isn't how you are supposed to play an MMO in 2011!

Stop living the past!!! Turn off (your brain), Log in, and tune out dude. The rallying cry of the new counterculture of anti-intellectual video gamers.

I was just doing a leve at horizon on my rank 21 Thaumaturge. The leve mobs were rank 28... several fights didn't even see me losing stoneskin. Even the fight at the end against 3 mobs at once took barely any effort. That's a bit ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

It happens at all levels, you are just doing guildleves in a counter intuitive way by trying to challenge yourself. Didn't you get the memo, apparently that isn't how you are supposed to play an MMO!

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Except it doesn't. Again I was doing R30 leves today as an R32 at about 3 stars. It took quite a bit of work on my part to get through some of them, especially those with the trickier monsters.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Except it doesn't. Again I was doing R30 leves today as an R32 at about 3 stars. It took quite a bit of work on my part to get through some of them, especially those with the trickier monsters.

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So soloing a leve at the difficulty for what... band? Which I believe is supposed to be atleast 3 players doesn't seem too easy for you?

Doesn't seem easy at all to me, hell I almost died a few times. It was a decent challenge I'd say, not necessarily hard by any means though.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Stop living the past!!! Turn off (your brain), Log in, and tune out dude. The rallying cry of the new counterculture of anti-intellectual video gamers.

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Umm...what?

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Except it doesn't. Again I was doing R30 leves today as an R32 at about 3 stars. It took quite a bit of work on my part to get through some of them, especially those with the trickier monsters.

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What exactly did you think you were gaining by doing your guildleves this way? Because rest assured it wasn't more SP.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

What exactly did you think you were gaining by doing your guildleves this way? Because rest assured it wasn't more SP.

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A challenge maybe? Make things a little more interesting and less boring. What does it matter to you how I do my guild leves?

It's funny to me that some people are just now figuring out that leves are SP goldmines after 1.18.

And yes, they're fine exactly as they are. Gives the folks who want to solo or don't have time to group a viable, reasonable way to level their classes.

I don't understand why certain people want casuals to be locked out of leveling content.

The leveling isn't challenging, it's not engaging, and it's tedious.

Remember, we want casuals in the game because casuals fund the development of content for niche players [aka end game players] that they couldn't otherwise fund by themselves.

I think for casuals Yoshi's aim at 2 hours per 4 months to level one class is too slow. We need all types of players in the game, and leveling shouldn't define players within a game.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Doesn't seem easy at all to me, hell I almost died a few times. It was a decent challenge I'd say, not necessarily hard by any means though.



Umm...what?

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You've never heard of Timothy Leary? It's the opposite of turn on, tune in, and drop out. Though I guess it should be turn off, tune out, and drop in because people would much rather turn off their brain, tune out of their surroundings, and drop into rank to fit their overwhelming need to conform to popular opinion. Whereas Leary was encouraging people to be more aware of the world around them, their own abilities, and to "drop out" of the restrictive socially constructed confines of the time.

I'm referring to the incredible backlash people have nowadays against anything that might encourage or even reward them to challenge themselves. It's a serious problem in MMO's, and obviously a much more serious problem in modern society in general.

Oh and again I'm not the one trying to take away options here. I am all for guildleves and sidequests and whatever other silly solo content you want to play. I just want to be rewarded if I choose to do something with more substance. Right now I'm not, unless as some have been so kind to point out I play twice as long (oooh fun, Thank you so much!!!).

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

It's funny to me that some people are just now figuring out that leves are SP goldmines after 1.18.

And yes, they're fine exactly as they are. Gives the folks who want to solo or don't have time to group a viable, reasonable way to level their classes.

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I'm perfectly happy with a means for gain in a casual setting...

But leves can provide a ridiculous return on sp with little or no effort on the part of the player. Leves should provide challenging engaging content for the rewards... and right now, they really don't.

Also keep in mind that Yoshi stated he was thinking of actually extending the time for reset on leves too. You can party all day but leves have limits and, if Yoshi goes through with what he said, even stricter limits will be forthcoming.

People are going to do leves no matter how much sp they give just because they are there. Then they will finish and go back to grinding. I see no fault in this or any reason to change it. Leves are for solo and/or casual players. Leave them alone and go party if that's what you want to do. Working as intended.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

You've never heard of Timothy Leary? It's the opposite of turn on, tune in, and drop out. Though I guess it should be turn off, tune out, and drop in because people would much rather turn off their brain, tune out of their surroundings, and drop into rank to fit their overwhelming need to conform to popular opinion. Whereas Leary was encouraging people to be more aware of the world around them, their own abilities, and to "drop out" of the restrictive socially constructed confines of the time.

I'm referring to the incredible backlash people have nowadays against anything that might encourage or even reward them to challenge themselves. It's a serious problem in MMO's, and obviously a much more serious problem in modern society in general.

Oh and again I'm not the one trying to take away options here. I am all for guildleves and sidequests and whatever other silly solo content you want to play. I just want to be rewarded if I choose to do something with more substance. Right now I'm not, unless as some have been so kind to point out I play twice as long (oooh fun, Thank you so much!!!).

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Then bring challenge through content and mechanics which press players' abilities - not through routine rotations. Leveling is more about "Turning off" than "Turning on".

I just can't agree that casual gameplay has to be this easy.

Leves have a timer of 30 minutes. How many people spend even close to that amount of time on any leve that doesn't require a leve mob to drop a necrologos page?

When a leve mob can be 7 ranks higher than a player and hit that same player for 17 damage a hit, there is something wrong. When a player can fight 3 leve mobs all 7 ranks higher than the player and not have to use some form of CC or cure, there is something wrong...

A non-leve mob that is rank 27 would hit for atleast 10 times the damage those mobs were hitting me for.

Leves are dumbed down too much... it's not casual... it's special ed.