Move the 100 myth message to the end of battle or get rid of it

All this message does is promote harassment and exclusion of new players. As it stands now, you can practice practice practice the battle all you want, but at some point you will have to join a farming PT to get the clear and unlock new content. But oh wait all the farming parties have "NO 100 MYTH" in their PF comments.

"Just get a static!" I hear the apologists shout. Some people can't play as much as they'd like. Are they banished to farming last patch's content forever? Is that really fair?

Is this the devs' intention? Designing a team jump rope game where if one player F's up, everyone dies? Creating a toxic community?

It wont matter next patch. Myth will be removed however soldiery will probably take its place :x So I guess I can agree that for this reasoning the new player bonus should be hidden until the end.

I'm one of the few that gets excited.
#datbonus

And they could potentially make this mistake again with the myth bonus being converted to a Soldiery one.

Y'all, I'm all for party finder groups setting their own requirements and expectations. That's the point of the party finder. But we can't deny that the 100 myth bonus marker did the opposite of what it was touted as doing - rather than giving a positive incentive for content veterans to help new players clear, it simply created a new social marker for exclusion and raised the social barrier for content back to 2.0 levels of "Have a static, be a veteran from a static, or log off until the next patch."

And boy, it would suck if the player subscription cycle involved constant, unsustainable player inactivity after the first month of every patch, wouldn't it.

I don't know, I haven't tried myself because I'm still behind in content, but you could make your own clear party in the PF. I'm sure there are other people looking for the same things you are. I'm sure there are other people who have had plenty of training parties but is ready for a clear too, it could be beneficial for others as well. Just a thought though, I'm not quite here yet so I could totally be wrong.

You really shouldn't be joining a farming party if you haven't gotten a kill UNLESS you know most of the people in that party/they're aware of your situation.

If your schedule doesn't work with a static, then I suggest either finding or creating a Linkshell; that's how I got all of my Extreme primal kills and most of my T5 practice. Group up with LS mates on a consistent basis and you'll find yourself having a lot more success then chancing it with new pugs each time. It took me a weekend to get a shell from 2 people up to max capacity just by shouting in areas.

Anyway, I think the myth message absolutely should stay. It lets me know when someone has joined a farm group hoping for a clear (which is really inconsiderate unless you've discussed it with the leader), and it also lets me know if someone might be new to content in the DF. Since people rarely speak out and say that they're new, that myth message is the only clue I've got. At least if it pops up, there can be an attempt at communication BEFORE problems arise.

100% agree, I don't think any good has come from it.

I would agree with the change. There have been many times I join a DF group, learn the script of the fight, but die on the last phase. So the player already knows the entire fight but because the last group couldn't officially finish it, your still branded as someone who has no clue and would be nothing but dead weight. The biggest joke I've seen too is I finally get myself comfortable with some content and join "pro" parties and they are the ones dying every 2 seconds because of 'lag' or something.

I have nothing against this, honestly. It's bonus myth on top of the rewards, so it's pretty nice to have. It's pretty helpful as well to know if anyone is new and need explanations on the dungeon or fight. I'm just happy to help out on occasion. So, I disagree with removing it. How else would I know if anyone needs any help?

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Originally Posted by Sho86

So the player already knows the entire fight but because the last group couldn't officially finish it, your still branded as someone who has no clue and would be nothing but dead weight.

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Then say something. Communication is the key. If you were confident in your ability to beat the fight, then by all means talk to the party leader about it. Whether or not they decide to accept you is up to them and you'd rather not want to join those who decline. Personally, I'd prefer have people that actually tell me if they had the experience and wanted to join for the kill rather than those who just sneak in and not saying a word.

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Originally Posted by Sho86

The biggest joke I've seen too is I finally get myself comfortable with some content and join "pro" parties and they are the ones dying every 2 seconds because of 'lag' or something.

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Are you sure that those "pro" people are living up to their claims? It all comes down to whether they lied to you or not. The disparity between the community is divided by a web of lies. The more people lie, the more chances of other people not trusting anyone else they don't know. Thus, end-game players are less likely to trust other people (and the reason why they don't like the 100 Myth message), and this leads to people lying their way into their parties even more, and the cycle repeats itself. This is why communication is the key! :)

You shouldn't try to sneak into a farm party that has the expectation that you have cleared it already. Instead you should tell the leader that you know the fight well and practiced it in other groups and ask to join. By being sneaky you just get a lot of people mad at you and if you were honest and told the truth most likely they would let you join.

I agree, but i still shake my head at the people who do this, as someone can easily know the fights, they just need to clear it, or in most cases people being on alts.

but then never realize people with those "clears" where just carried to the win and are wiping the group far more then the 2 people who have never cleared, it is and will always be a silly requirement. but it is funny to see morons flip a table when they see myth bonus and won't ATTEMPT the battle, they just bail asap. ego does not get much bigger then that.

I personally don't really care for 100 myth. You are not doing these fights for Myth, you want the loot at the end.

One thing that would absolutely give most people the incentive to teach or take on someone that has not cleared would be to have this bonus of 100 myth(soldiery in 2.4 most likely) replaced with "greatly increased drop rate of items" such as mounts, mirrors, Ramuh weapons those items that don't drop 100% of the time and also the craft items for bardings and furnishings.

Also for fights that do not have additional loot that don't always drop, like Coil for example. For Coil you could have the chance for additional armor drops from chests.

This is such a simple solution and it's only a "chance" you can't exploit it and most of all, everyone will want the bonus that the person that hasn't cleared gives you.

Hmm, how about something like "Get a extra chest with higher gear chance at the end of expert dungeons if 2 or more players in the party do it the first time"?

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Originally Posted by Felis

Hmm, how about something like "Get a extra chest with higher gear chance at the end of expert dungeons if 2 or more players in the party do it the first time"?

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Wow you read my mind i was thinking the same thing.

Higher chance drops of rarer items if new people in the party. i bet you that will make some incentive to accept them.

um, 100 myth is the best prize to carrying someone through content...

Nah, I like how it gives some sort of an idea as to why the group might have wiped. More importantly, it filters potential suspects in PF groups, who might be looking to get carried.

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Originally Posted by Kastraan

um, 100 myth is the best prize to carrying someone through content...

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Unfortunately 100 myth is not enough for most people.

This has relegated the alert to instead being an alert to hunt down the new person and remove them. Or to leave the team immediately because there's a new person.

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Originally Posted by Danbo05

I'm one of the few that gets excited.
#datbonus

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Haha me too!

Also, unrelated: how is your character so dark? That's the skin tone I wanted but the darkest was this dark-ish grey. Your character looks amazing!

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Originally Posted by Gextiv

Nah, I like how it gives some sort of an idea as to why the group might have wiped. More importantly, it filters potential suspects in PF groups, who might be looking to get carried.

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That still does not work tho, which is what you're not getting. as more likely then not half the people in your partied were carried for the win.

I agree. The new player message doesn't mean anything. I had a FC member yesterday who got Melusine to 1% and then they wiped. A couple more seconds or some more lucky procs and they could've done it. How is that not the same as kill exp? And on the other hand, not having a message doesn't mean you know how to kill it, you might have died halfway throught but the party still defeated the boss and you got your clear with exp only up until 50%.

The bonus is nice but it creates much more hostility than incentive to allow new players to join in.

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Originally Posted by Riko_Futatabi

I personally don't really care for 100 myth. You are not doing these fights for Myth, you want the loot at the end.

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This is such a simple solution and it's only a "chance" you can't exploit it and most of all, everyone will want the bonus that the person that hasn't cleared gives you.

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This is really the reason. If you want Myth, you'll probably go out and do a few hunts. Even Soldiery wouldn't be a good enough offer, because that can be done through the same means. The incentive needs to be something that is valuable for players to accept it. Otherwise, it's just a means of discrimination.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

This is why communication is the key! :)

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Yes, communication is key, in a community that accepts it. In this game, you could be the best player out there (an extreme example) yet have that 100 myth tagged when you come in; they'll ask'n'boot without a care. Words have no weight with general community in this game, only whats shown, and whats shown is 100 myth noob status with nothing else. Unless they put in extreme technicalities like 'Phases reached 3/4' etc, it will always be either 'noob' or 'pro'.

As for my 'pro' example earlier, clearly they did not live up to their claims, hence my point. They expect the best, not always because they are great players themselves, but in truth looking to be carried in their own way. I've long stopped running with groups outside my FC when it comes to "hard" content, since it really is nothing but toxic hate flying every which way. In my FC runs we have plenty of people new to fights and after a couple wipes they end up doing better than most of the previous PF/Shout groups.

In short what I'm trying to say is be it your a true newbie to the fight or semi-experienced with it, it comes down to the player. Being branded by the game and shoved into a lot your not actually with is why things heat up. Oh, not to mention if your a person that plays alts, your down right screwed too.

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Originally Posted by Volcano

That still does not work tho, which is what you're not getting. as more likely then not half the people in your partied were carried for the win.

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I agree, there is variation as to how players complete content. But you are assured that everyone saw the boss go down, at least once, when you do not get the myth message.

I take comfort in that.

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Originally Posted by Sho86

In this game, you could be the best player out there (an extreme example) yet have that 100 myth tagged when you come in; they'll ask'n'boot without a care.

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Seriously? I know on my server that this might happen with PF "farm" parties, but most raid parties will at least try someone who knows all the mechanics but just hasn't cinched a clear yet. Just need to be honest about how far you've been so that they can make an informed decision and obviously be prepared to leave if you seem to be causing wipes.

I guess, since that's the community attitude that I've experience, I really don't see a problem with the 100 Myth message. It's really sad to hear that people are treating each other that way :(

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Originally Posted by Sho86

Snip

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Even new players without any experience can be toxic to the community. It's based to perspective. In most cases, if a person does not like you because of the notification popping up, it's because you did something that you shouldn't have in the first place. For example, joining a farming party without any prior notice. These parties don't expect perfection, rather, they just want to get their loot. You can say that the current loot system can be the cause of it, but that is best left for another discussion.

However, I'd rather they keep this notification. New players tend to stay quiet when they're new to a dungeon - either they are shy or don't have a keyboard. I'm willing enough to help anyone I meet through the DF, because they deserve the kindness without the worry of messing up. I don't expect anything in return. I'm just glad to help in any way I can. :)

I like it when it tells me. That way I can explain things as we go or from the beginning. I'd rather that than find out on wipe number 3. :)

So you'd rather the player be harassed for their poor performance for joining a group they weren't qualified to join?

I agree the major issue here is there is generally a lack of middle ground for players who are competent enough (more competent than a lot of farm players) but haven't had the clear not by their fault but others not pulling their weight.

For instance I neglected to clear Ramuh when the majority was still doing it, I have made it past adds several times now and pushed him down to 10% when he enraged (other DPS's died) and can consistently clear all the mechanics of the fight, but because of that stupid myth message I have little hope of ever getting a clear now since all parties that would be decent enough to clear the fight won't take me and that leaves me with learning parties. Clear parties are very rare as they require people who are no longer learning but do not have the clear and since farm people don't want to waste time they won't join so you get a clear party with a bunch of learners pretending to know what to do. So my options are either bash my head against the wall with duty finder until I luck out or sit in party finder for 6 hours trying to form a "win" party.

Just because you cleared the fight doesn't mean you are any good at it. I remember when I cleared mog EX when it was released and started joining FARM (clear only) parties to try and get my necklace, the amount of trash players I ended up with who were killing moogles or more often than not straying into the middle of the arena getting hit by delta it took me longer to get my 2nd and 3rd victories over mog ex than it did the first. Not to mention the whole host of FC's that sell clears, how many people bought wins then rolled up into a farm party afterwards because they have the "clear".

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Even new players without any experience can be toxic to the community.

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Yes, those be the "noobs" that just like to cause destruction and trolls, not the point I'm making.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

In most cases, if a person does not like you because of the notification popping up, it's because you did something that you shouldn't have in the first place. For example, joining a farming party without any prior notice.

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Again, my point proves in your response. Its either 'noob' or 'pro'. No regard for those who got the boss through all phases, or done it before on a main character. People in farming parties want what? Loot, and to get that, you need to clear. People who want clears need that too, imagine that. I'm not arguing the trolls and completely clueless do not belong there. I'm talking about those who have done the fight and know the mechanics, yet have had bad luck with parties who are clueless.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

These parties don't expect perfection

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Right.... In the off chance a 100 myth player is allowed to stay, its always with the warning "don't mess up" and 1 death can lead to a frothy rage by others who die as well, yet theirs are ignored at that point cause they have that golden clear already. Even in the event of not a single person has that tag, they go ballistic on each other when a wipe happens.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

I'm willing enough to help anyone I meet through the DF

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So am I, and a handful of other people on this game. Largely though people rather rage or boot, sometimes even just leave themselves without even considering the situation. That is why new players learn to be quiet, because each run (even outside farming parties) is like walking on eggshells not knowing when someone is gonna blow up for something trivial. I see a lot more "I'm the new guy here" in Sastasha than say Stone Vigil Hard when the message pops.

In any case I've had my fill of the forums, I've made my point and I can't word any other way by now. Yet the only response is always a 'black and white' viewpoint with some rose tint glasses on the side. IE: 'You don't belong in this content cause 100myth tag so you must be crap , but oh, I'll help you in this other content - cause I like to be helpful and open-minded like that.' /facepalm

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Originally Posted by Firepower

I agree the major issue here is there is generally a lack of middle ground for players who are competent enough (more competent than a lot of farm players) but haven't had the clear not by their fault but others not pulling their weight.

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This entire post is the most accurate and factual one in this thread.

Firepower, I know your feel bro. I've had to convince teams to let me in despite message under the promise I knew what to do. I remember being one of only three left alive in my Turn 5 clear and then getting vited to 2nd coil after. But even finding a team like that took weeks and a lot of /tell convincing to leaders.

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Originally Posted by Avisaia

I like it when it tells me. That way I can explain things as we go or from the beginning. I'd rather that than find out on wipe number 3. :)

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It'd be great if more people thought like you.

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Originally Posted by Riko_Futatabi

Also for fights that do not have additional loot that don't always drop, like Coil for example. For Coil you could have the chance for additional armor drops from chests.

This is such a simple solution and it's only a "chance" you can't exploit it and most of all, everyone will want the bonus that the person that hasn't cleared gives you.

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From a Coil perspective this would promote selling your 8th static slot for the extra armor if you're capable of 7-manning lol

Before the myth message they would just queue something up that required the instance to unlock or demand to see your achievement history on the Lodestone. It hasn't changed all that much. Just now they don't know you haven't cleared until you're queued in. The best thing you can do is get some friends. Join some LSes or a Free Company. Even if you don't do things with some people all the time, if you generate a good rep with them they'll always let you into their group.

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Originally Posted by Sho86

In any case I've had my fill of the forums, I've made my point and I can't word any other way by now. Yet the only response is always a 'black and white' viewpoint with some rose tint glasses on the side. IE: 'You don't belong in this content cause 100myth tag so you must be crap , but oh, I'll help you in this other content - cause I like to be helpful and open-minded like that.' /facepalm

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Your response looks quite one-sided, to be honest. I don't condone the use of the notification to harass other people, but in the least, people should be smart enough to figure this out themselves. The notification is by no means a way to tell of the skill level of the person, but a lot of people seem to think otherwise. Nobody is excluding you from content because of the notification. You are excluding yourself by not doing anything about it. This is what most players seem to be missing; Initiative. :)

NO.
"farming party" is for people who have cleared the fight multiple times, we're not here to potentially carry anyone. Make your own "clear party" instead of joining farm runs.

Honestly just whisper the party leaders.
When I got sick of trying to clear Levi EX via the DF i just whispered someone in the PF who had a farm group and told them the situation. I knew the fight by heart I just couldn't get a DF group that could clear it.
Gave me a chance and I aced it.

I don't see any good reason to remove it. I don't exactly get what's wrong with preventing people from lying about their experience to get into parties that have established requirements that they don't meet.

And party leaders have every right to choose the requirements for their parties as they wish.

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Originally Posted by Ghasto

NO.
"farming party" is for people who have cleared the fight multiple times, we're not here to potentially carry anyone. Make your own "clear party" instead of joining farm runs.

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You have no idea how many times people have cleared content. Someone who got to 1% a hunderd times has more experience than someone who cleared it once because he died halfway through but guess who'd be able to join your PF.

I never put no 100 myth on my PF because it's useless. Unless you personally know that person, the absence of the 100 myth message tells you nothing about their skills.

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Originally Posted by Alyko

All this message does is promote harassment and exclusion of new players.

Is this the devs' intention? Designing a team jump rope game where if one player F's up, everyone dies? Creating a toxic community?

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You can't blame the devs for how the community behaves. Following human logic, a 100 myths bonus is supposed to incentive people into letting new members in the group. Because 100 myths is a BONUS.

That the elitists decided they don't need those myths and they're not worth the "hassle" of having one new member in their group, that's no one's fault but their own.

Nope. People will simply revert to achievement checking or in the case of earlier primals, lockout checking with the newest primal. I mean it's not like "Farm parties" and checks just popped up for no reason. People just got tired of people sneaking in for clears or for "experience" and causing multiple wipes. If you want to join a farm party because you are sure that you can clear/have been to "1%" etc, talk to the party leader, most players will understand and atleast give you a shot, because you were honest. If your intent is sneaking in and lying, then really why should I or anyone else be obliged to help you out?