Please put a range limitation on shield lob / tomahawk

A simple change is all that I ask. These abilities should not be able to be used if you are in melee range.

Why? I find it very useful if I see a monster about to go harass my healer just as I tab to it so I can lob it before it gets away.

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Originally Posted by Ignnis

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If they are in melee range you can just use any of your hate moves to do that and use less tp. Also if the hate is about to flip a lob will not hold it very long. If they are trying to run off then they are no longer in melee and that's when it's useful.

An example if you have 2 mobs and one is about to flip just crack it with a Spirits / Halone or a Brutal / BB. Typically I would just use a flash or two. In general in group fighting you would either concentrate on the group in general lots of flash / soc / op / Steel Cyclone or you rotate hate moves from your rotation. If you are about to lose one you would focus more on that mob to lock it down.

Either way all of those are in melee range. Most of the people I group with (not everyone of course) only use it for pulls or if one runs off but typically that one is provoked / lobbed

Still: Why? Are you angry people use it when close up or something?

If they're lob-spaming things in range or something they're bad tanks. Keeping them from lobbing won't really help...

I don't see the advantage of disabling them in melee range. Just don't hit the button if you don't want to use them.

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Most of the people I group with (not everyone of course) only use it for pulls or if one runs off but typically that one is provoked / lobbed

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Heya ^^

It's not because the way you are playing or most of the people you are playing with play this way, that it's the only way to go.

It can happen that you shield lob by mistake, mashing buttons, but it's working as intented. SE won't play in our stead; we are in control of the buttons we press.

Rbstr and Bixby just gave enough arguments to close this thread.

I also don't like the idea that I wouldn't be able to throw something at something, just because its close to me.

I can still throw a baseball at your face if you are close enough for me to hit you with a sword or an axe, which have a pretty lengthy reach on them.

It would just be weird to say you can't throw things at things that are too close.

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Originally Posted by Rbstr

Still: Why? Are you angry people use it when close up or something?

If they're lob-spaming things in range or something they're bad tanks. Keeping them from lobbing won't really help...

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I never said anything about being angry about it. I just said I would like it changed.

It's a ranged attack and imo if you are in melee then it is not ranged. It's more of discrepancy issue then anything.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

I also don't like the idea that I wouldn't be able to throw something at something, just because its close to me.

I can still throw a baseball at your face if you are close enough for me to hit you with a sword or an axe, which have a pretty lengthy reach on them.

It would just be weird to say you can't throw things at things that are too close.

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You can't shoulder tackle unless you are @ a certain range. I can shoulder tackle someone within punching range in real life.

You can't do it at full speed though. And thats what a shoulder tackle is.

And are you arguing for it to be added to melee range? Im not saying the game should emulate real life in every aspect, but when it does don't argue against it.

Adding meaningless limitations seems less real, and takes away from my immersion.



I think taking away melee range would also interrupt the cast, and make the game play weird, especially if a mob is moving.


Also its not a ranged attack, its a mid ranged attack. It's distance is far shorter than a ranged attack.

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Originally Posted by Symbiant

It's a ranged attack and imo if you are in melee then it is not ranged. It's more of discrepancy issue then anything.

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Then any attack of Archer or Bard would need a minimum range by that logic. And, honestly, don't you find it much weirder that we can throw our shield/axe and... well, hold it in hand again 1 second later? We can throw our shield/axe ten times in a row, but it only bothers you that we can do it in melee range, not that we seem to have limitless amounts of shields/axes to throw?

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Originally Posted by MythToken

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I am pretty sure the description says ranged attack. As far as casters & bards go, none of those have the "ranged attack" in the description. So it would not apply to them. As far as immersion... what about the monk that can't tackle that is right in front of them when a tackle is typically an in your face type of fighting tactic.

As I said before it's a discrepancy issue. They can just remove the "ranged attack" and put something like delivers a blow of 130 or some bs like that or they can just make it what it states it is and keep you from using it in melee range.

I am sure you would not like to purchase a blue laptop online and when you it arrives it's brown would you? It's basically the same thing. Nit picky? Yes but, it should be something that should be fixed imo.

Nope these arguments dont justify a change.

Don't feed the troll, end thread.

Provoke + lob just after something moves and is just out of melee range. Means I don\\'t need to move so I don\\'t mess with any melee dps or have to move into aoes etc etc. ps4 tab targeting in large groups is a nightmare and sometimes things get yanked off me because I\\'m still tabbing to the monster.

Don\\'t like it don\\'t use it.

By ranged attack it just means it can be used outside melee range. Obviously you don't need that title on Bard and Caster spells, because duh they are ranged.

It is simply a way for melee to know it can be used outside of melee range. Which is just a simple description of what the skill does.

It says nothing about not being able to use it within melee range, which is exactly what shoulder tackle states. And shoulder tackle is not a ranged attack.

So it is very clear and working as intended. We will stop feeding you now.

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Originally Posted by Ignnis

Provoke + lob just after something moves and is just out of melee range. Means I don\\'t need to move so I don\\'t mess with any melee dps or have to move into aoes etc etc. ps4 tab targeting in large groups is a nightmare and sometimes things get yanked off me because I\\'m still tabbing to the monster.

Don\\'t like it don\\'t use it.

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Exactly! It's just out of melee range just as I have requested.

No one said to tab target mobs. If you are doing a group right you will not have to target but one mob.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

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Yes ranged does mean you can use it outside of melee. I don't disagree with that but, the other attack from ranged do not say ranged attack. As far as shoulder tackle goes. You brought in immersion so I brought up shoulder tackle because no one would try to tackle someone from 10'. Nothing immersive about having to run out 10' to tackle someone when you can tackle them at point blank range.
I would think that the word "Lob" would indicate range no? "Range attack" Is not needed on the description.

You can take repelling shot as another mislabel attack. Nothing in that description states you need to be up the mobs butt before you can use it. It just simply states "10-yalm backstep". It never told me that I could not use it in any location. I am ranged so I would assume I can use it in my average range no?

I screenshotted this thread. hilarious.

/endthread.

I use shield lob to drain my TP, so I can be cool and use my "BRD TP SONG NOW" Macro.

It's a single target enmity skill that doesn't require a combo to build enmity. The first melee skill in the enmity combo for both WAR and PLD do not generate enmity. So if a lob or a tomahawk will do the job of getting aggro back where aoe is not a possibility (flash out of MP or overpower out of TP) then using it in CQB is not a problem.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

It's a single target enmity skill that doesn't require a combo to build enmity. The first melee skill in the enmity combo for both WAR and PLD do not generate enmity. So if a lob or a tomahawk will do the job of getting aggro back where aoe is not a possibility (flash out of MP or overpower out of TP) then using it in CQB is not a problem.

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A raw Halone/Butcher is literally better enmity generation than Lob/Hawk. It's stupid to use outside of max range.

On that note, Overpower also generates better enmity than 'hawk and is almost the same range. Virtually no reason to even have 'hawk on your hotbar.

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Originally Posted by Bixby

I don't see the advantage of disabling them in melee range. Just don't hit the button if you don't want to use them.

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I see your point, but on the other hand many people like to have lob and mark target shared on the same button in a macro. Unless you time it just right, you can waste a gcd when changing the mark around.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

I see your point, but on the other hand many people like to have lob and mark target shared on the same button in a macro. Unless you time it just right, you can waste a gcd when changing the mark around.

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You'd face the same problem trying to mark a mob that's outside melee range without lobbing/hawking it. Or trying to lob/hawk without marking. Macros (in FFXIV) trade convenience for adaptability/performance. Smush two things together and you get to deal with the fact that they're smushed together.

I usually only pull with provoke and slam my flash macro on WAR. That plus riding Featherfoot on cooldown has gotten me 500 comms. Tomahawk is already pointless enough, just remove it.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

I use shield lob to drain my TP, so I can be cool and use my "BRD TP SONG NOW" Macro.

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Then the brd armies I keep getting in ST will all use it and you can spam it to your hearts content :D

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

A raw Halone/Butcher is literally better enmity generation than Lob/Hawk. It's stupid to use outside of max range.

On that note, Overpower also generates better enmity than 'hawk and is almost the same range. Virtually no reason to even have 'hawk on your hotbar.

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Requires combo. And overpowered is less range and costs more tp. This is my last post to this troll thread

It's a video game. If you really want to play semantics here, we should have our shield unequipped after the first Lob. Surely that makes more sense, right?

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Originally Posted by Madotsuki

It's a video game. If you really want to play semantics here, we should have our shield unequipped after the first Lob. Surely that makes more sense, right?

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And us warriors without an axe. On that note, lets make arrows a consumable so that people can craft them and abuse the markets.

Player choice, if you don't like Tomahawk or "think" it shouldn't be used outside melee range don't use it. Simple enough just like fracture.

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Originally Posted by Symbiant

Exactly! It's just out of melee range just as I have requested.

No one said to tab target mobs. If you are doing a group right you will not have to target but one mob.

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Bad tank is bad.

Sometimes a lob is needed for that extra aggro, and it's off GCD, so if you're in a RoH combo on 2 mobs, and the third one turns to the healer, if provoke is down or mp is low (which happens a lot when spamming flash), it's a viable attack.

Why remove/limit an ability in a tank's bag just for emersion? It's a fantasy game.

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Originally Posted by Eggnook24

Bad tank is bad.

Sometimes a lob is needed for that extra aggro, and it's off GCD, so if you're in a RoH combo on 2 mobs, and the third one turns to the healer, if provoke is down or mp is low (which happens a lot when spamming flash), it's a viable attack.

Why remove/limit an ability in a tank's bag just for emersion? It's a fantasy game.

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Shield lob is not off GCD lol

Shield lob is quick aggro grasp tool besides Flash. All first move in any combo for Pal or War does not gave aggro generator built-in. I still don't see what to justify for the change??? And for the sake of argument, let say it is changed, don't blame us if we can not get the aggro back fast enough, and you are dead because of that. I can so see that coming, like really, no kidding....Please, use your intelligent better, please!!!

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

Requires combo. And overpowered is less range and costs more tp. This is my last post to this troll thread

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Ignoring Defiance/ShOath:

Uncomboed Halone/Butcher is 100x5 = 500
Overpower is 120x5 = 600
Lob/Hawk is 130x3 = 390
Uncomboed Skull/Savage is 100x3 = 300

Lob/Hawk isn't that great.

Overpower is a whopping 3y less.

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Originally Posted by Symbiant

I never said anything about being angry about it. I just said I would like it changed.

It's a ranged attack and imo if you are in melee then it is not ranged. It's more of discrepancy issue then anything.

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no melee range attacks for BRD

Of all the things that need to be improved, you pick this to dedicate an entire thread to?

Just no.

Move along folks, nothing to see here.

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Originally Posted by Symbiant

You can't shoulder tackle unless you are @ a certain range. I can shoulder tackle someone within punching range in real life.

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This is just as stupid as saying bards shouldnt be able to fire arrows at melee range.

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Originally Posted by Symbiant

Exactly! It\\'s just out of melee range just as I have requested

No one said to tab target mobs. If you are doing a group right you will not have to target but one mob.

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Only.target.one.mob.in.a.pull....

I need a sec....





Ok.

You should be constantly doing your rotation on the whole group because healers generate agro on EVERYTHING you have pulled.

Also to guy above I think your confusing provoke with lob, provoke is off GCD.

I play on PS4. My Lob is a Macro which also puts Mark #1.
Therefore I always start a fight with lob so DPS knows which to go for. During my combos, I normally use the lob to put marker on new target.
I do that on the cooldown so I don't actually Lob noone, just apply the number. But sometimes I end up lobbing when the cooldown finished.


Anyways, I don't see a point in not allowing the skills to be cast.
If you don't like, don't cast. Not everyone is noob/troll like you :D

Also, this:

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Then any attack of Archer or Bard would need a minimum range by that logic.

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ehh? it doesn't break the game and changing it wouldn't make people better players.

perhaps figure out ways to spend TP more efficiently rather than requesting for a change