Tired of This Sh*t SE (SCH, Keep the nerfs don't care) But..

Give us a DAMN CC for the Love of all that is freaking Holy!!!

We have Blizzard II (THM Move).

WHM-
Sacred Prism-(4x better than a Sacred Soil) Longer Cast Time w.e
Regen/Medica (Can't Kill it but can remove it).
Repose- CC-15 Sec Sleep.
Blizzard II (THM)- Induces a Bind Affect.
Holy- Induces a 4 second Stun (can spam until DR takes affect) Sub-Par dmg output.
Focalization- Until 2.2 Was a SCH only ability.
Fluid Aura- Knockback "30 Second CD" Binds Target.

SCH- LMAO
Fairy- If an intelligent individual were to attack SCH & Fairy simultaneously could easily kill a SCH & it's fairy if skilled.
Blizzard II- Cross Class from THM. (Note: Needs to be in melee range to utilize).
Aldoquium- Mitigation across the board- Ilvl 80 FL 600-750 1100x2 *Crit* Mitigation. Cough (Crit)- BLM 2000+fire Dmg, 2500 Fire III, 2500+ Flares LOL.
Aura Blast- 2min Cd,
Ruin II (Blind) Lol does it actually work. Maybe

Hint SCH :D. Pop that Sprint, Save that Swiftcast for Adloquium/Blizzard II & keep Adloquium/Stoneskin or other preliminary buffs up at all times.

Ready for more? No sorry that's it.
You may keep the nerfs, could careless about the aetherflow nerf.. But we've been asking for a viable CC of our own class.

Hint for patch 2.25 you could of just removed the heal reduction from disease for SCH and kept the heavy on it and removed the heavy from disease on SMN.

Listen to your fanbase(SCH) SE.

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Originally Posted by Vittorino

Listen to your fanbase SE.

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The fanbase complained SCH was too hard to kill...

... how about 'make more intelligent decisions' as the catchphrase?

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Originally Posted by Vittorino

Aldoquium- Mitigation across the board- Ilvl 80 FL 600-750 Mitigation. Cough- BLM 2000+fire Dmg, 2500 Fire III, 2500+ Flares LOL.

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keep in mind blm get's (like everyone else) synced down to ilvl 80 aswell, so these dmg numbers are a little hyperbolized ;)

It varies, should specify "Crit" numbers.

even crits aren't as high as you stated in ilvl80.
furthermore a crit is rng and your adlo can crit aswell which results in a much higher mitigation.

scholars are good enough as they are right now imo.

We get a pet which enables us insane survivability with our current skillset, and WHMs get CC. It's as simple as that.

You should always have one of each healing class at the minimum in the group anyhow, so what difference does it make?

What's this fanbase you're talking about? Majority of the people on here are in agreement that Scholars are just fine, if not better than White Mages in most situations.

Regardless, the thread is about cc. It certainly makes a difference if a mnk hypothetically were to spam perfect balance 1 ilm punch. Note sch cross class blizzard II must be in melee
A viable cc move that is from our class

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Originally Posted by Danbo05

What's this fanbase you're talking about? Majority of the people on here are in agreement that Scholars are just fine, if not better than White Mages in most situations.

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SCH fan base. If you read the description it states that :/

Up melees + nerf SCH, why both... I don't get it, 2 melees can roflstomp us already, they get some buffs, but we still get a nerf, seriously, why ?

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Originally Posted by Utsu

Up melees + nerf SCH, why both... I don't get it, 2 melees can roflstomp us already, they get some buffs, but we still get a nerf, seriously, why ?

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I've seen this before with other lazy companies:

They create a class that's much more difficult to play, balance it on average player ability...

Most people then avoid playing it because there are more easily-played alternatives, and therefore learn little about the class.

The few people who remain become excellent at juggling the many abilities.

When the latter group run into the former, the former become frustrated at the difficulty contending with the product of player skill clashing with their own ignorance.

In the days when dev teams had integrity, they used to make posts of "L2P", but over time the bean counters got involved, and the typical reaction since about 2008 in the industry has been to keep tossing nerfs at the "red-headed class" unto uselessness.

Not sure if you've actually played in frontlines, but the vast majority of fights you have galvanize, regen and medica II, protect (stoneskin i guess but not really reliable) covering your precious aetherflow stacks

against most players its a pretty low chance that they will touch them at all with buff strips, i honestly can't see this being noticeable in most matches

Scholars have many mitigation abilities in addition of their already high survival skills, removing aether stacks will not really render the class any more difficult to play than it is now. If you give them the AoE slow back or any form of knockback, it will make the current communities comments much worse than it currently is for the next patch that comes out.

Ceve is right in the sense that nothing will really be noticeable, it's one thing to mention that people are very good at giving you hundreds of situations on how disadvantaged they are after reading patch notes, but when actually playing the game they don't seem to be changing their playstyle very much or end up not even noticing these changes.

I'm still surprised SCH didn't get nerfed harder. A lot harder.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

I'm still surprised SCH didn't get nerfed harder. A lot harder.

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They shouldn't have been nerfed in the first place

The fact that Equanimity can be stun interrupted in retarded, and that this wasn't changed in regards to the SCH/SMN classes alongside the Aethyrflow Nerf just makes this more unbalanced. They didn't take away SCH's Healing or DPS so much as our ability to simply survive. Hard enough to heal anyone with 3 or 4 ppl interrupting is, now they can just take away our only viable method of surviving when that happens. And I don't just join Frontlones to merely survive but this makes their own survival be a much more pressing issue than their ability to heal/DPS more than any other class has had to face.

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Originally Posted by Utsu

Up melees + nerf SCH, why both... I don't get it, 2 melees can roflstomp us already, they get some buffs, but we still get a nerf, seriously, why ?

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because the majority of melee are baddies and SE caters to the carebear community and not the competitive one, so they make it so melee can kill you with less effort.
but what's going to happen in the long run is we will be right back in these forums looking at more tears from the same people crying about they can't kill SCHs again.
when it comes to pvp, SE just doesn't want the game to be competitive, or engaging at all. not one bit. they want to have the millions of customers without putting much effort in making the pvp competitive.
SE wants to walk the walk, but not talk the talk. but then again a gaming company isn't going to create a game that a game's playerbase can't handle or don't want. so if melee cries, SE is going to be right there with a Kleenex to soak up the tears.

Maybe they're trying to make it like rock paper scissors? Healer beats ranged beats melee beats healer.

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Originally Posted by Buff_Archer

They didn't take away SCH's Healing or DPS so much as our ability to simply survive. Hard enough to heal anyone with 3 or 4 ppl interrupting is, now they can just take away our only viable method of surviving when that happens.

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SE help!! My PLD/MNK/[insert any other class here] can't survive when I have 3 or 4 people hitting me and I have no support! Fix this now!!!

Do you hear yourself?

I'm totally in Gor's camp on this, I've gotten more useful PVP insight from them on here than anyone, I can only wish we were in the same GC and server. Hell we might have KO'd one another at some point though I'd rate their odds at having gotten a KO on me by now better than the other way around because knowledge and experience are more important in PVP than a lot of ppl seem to realize. I have no problem killing SCH's by the way using a couple of my fav techniques when I'm running SCH/SMN, and if I can do it without the 'melee buff' (it's a damn nerf) a melee player shouldn't need any more help doing it than they had before as they already have more actions at their disposal which give them leverage over casters than I do.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

SE help!! My PLD/MNK/[insert any other class here] can't survive when I have 3 or 4 people hitting me and I have no support! Fix this now!!!

Do you hear yourself?

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It's not about being focused itself. When a PLD/MNK/whatever gets focused they can continue to perform the role they're there for- DPS'ing, just with an aspect involving defense. A Healer who's role is to keep the party alive, not just themselves, was already limited in being able to perform their essential role to the party when focused and had to shift to survival mode, severely limiting their ability to heal the party. Our aethyrflow stacks becomes more of a survival tool in that situation than one to heal party members, so that if the party functions correctly I can stay alive long enough to heal myself and the party members who are now facing diminished healing. That was before the nerf, and I never complained about that aspect of things, that's part of it being formerly balanced in this regard.

Do you think a SCH being CQC'd by multiple opponents should be practically OSK'd and die in seconds, with the remaining party members having a major reduction in healing of up to 100% if no healers are left and are up against a group with one or more healers on board? For example, say a party with one WHM is up against one with one SCH. The ability of the former party to prevent the SCH healer the other from having their main survival skills at hand (which already have a cooldown once aethyrflow stacks are blown, and simply lustrating yourself does not buy hardly any time at all in this situation), without the latter party being able to do the same with the WHM, makes it a lot easier when all other variables are the same for party a to wipe party b than the other way around, and doesn't that constitute imbalance?

If you don't agree, I'd definitely be interested hearing your opinion as to why, but with perhaps a little more insight this time. Perhaps my response before didn't make it clear why simply surviving as a healer, vs. being able to perform aspects of your role that contribute to the party's success, is not enough and diminishing our options for survival in this case greatly hinders our ability to perform our role in an unbalanced way relative to other healers.

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

We get a pet which enables us insane survivability with our current skillset, and WHMs get CC. It's as simple as that.

You should always have one of each healing class at the minimum in the group anyhow, so what difference does it make?

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Sacred prism and 2 tons of cc's + way better heal / survivability than scholar ? hell yeah you re talkin about white mage. Also a properly specced whm (not determination ones, thats for people that still dont understand how to play the game to begin with) absolutely destroy things in term of dps.

Look I got it that people find we are godlike but its mainly in a One vs one situation, or in a situation where stupid melees don't use any ccs, dont buff, dont use anything and let the scholar play with los so he got the time to cast one thing inbetween the hits he take, cc his enemies, break los again etc.

At this point I dont even know why SE is listenin to the people that cant pvp to begin with

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Originally Posted by Buff_Archer

It's not about being focused itself. When a PLD/MNK/whatever gets focused they can continue to perform the role they're there for- DPS'ing, just with an aspect involving defense.

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No, we are being attacked and thus are being stunned, heavy'd, knocked back, rooted, and god knows what else. Any one of these make us lose footing on our target, and we are no longer functional. We still get some hits in, but we aren't going to be performing near our full potential.

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Originally Posted by Buff_Archer

A Healer who's role is to keep the party alive, not just themselves, was already limited in being able to perform their essential role to the party when focused and had to shift to survival mode, severely limiting their ability to heal the party.

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See above. Melee DPS also become very limited in performing our role when being focused. Caster DPS are on the same boat.

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Originally Posted by Buff_Archer

Do you think a SCH being CQC'd by multiple opponents should be practically OSK'd and die in seconds, with the remaining party members having a major reduction in healing of up to 100% if no healers are left

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If you are all by yourself healing then yes, you should die. Your group needs more healers. PvP was balanced around WD; in WD you have 2 dps, 1 tank, 1 healer. If you disrupt this ratio then of course you will have issues.

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Originally Posted by Buff_Archer

A Healer who's role is to keep the party alive, not just themselves, was already limited in being able to perform their essential role to the party when focused and had to shift to survival mode, severely limiting their ability to heal the party. Our aethyrflow stacks becomes more of a survival tool in that situation than one to heal party members, so that if the party functions correctly I can stay alive long enough to heal myself and the party members who are now facing diminished healing.

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That's one big misconception, though. A healer's role is NOT to keep their party alive in PvP, it is to substantially slow down their party's rate of death. A party with 2-3 healers should still eventually fall. If a healer is unable to heal their party because they have to focus on healing themselves, and a majority of the enemy team's DPS are focused on said healer, then that healer IS fulfilling their role. Even if they're not actively healing their team, they are mitigating the damage their team takes overall by taking it in their stead.

One could say that Healers in PvP are much more akin to PvE Tanks than PvE Healers. It's a very selfless role to fill that doesn't always feel good when it functions properly (who likes being focused and constantly struggling, after all), but it's a very important role nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

No, we are being attacked and thus are being stunned, heavy'd, knocked back, rooted, and god knows what else. Any one of these make us lose footing on our target, and we are no longer functional. We still get some hits in, but we aren't going to be performing near our full potential.

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Incoming! (Saving for 1000 char workaround)

Had a family emergency will have to respond as soon as I can.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

If you are all by yourself healing then yes, you should die. Your group needs more healers. PvP was balanced around WD; in WD you have 2 dps, 1 tank, 1 healer. If you disrupt this ratio then of course you will have issues.

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I switched from Sch to WHM very, very early on in frontlines.

I can do about 5x as healing with the same gear on WHM as I could in SCH.

SCH was weak to begin with, very weak. With bad fairy AI (Micromanging? Plz), weak heals, and weak mitigation it was a joke.

Now it is not even a joke anymore, but has turned into that joke that was popular and went viral but ends up a few years later on your grandma's Facebook page.

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Originally Posted by Titor

I switched from Sch to WHM very, very early on in frontlines.

I can do about 5x as healing with the same gear on WHM as I could in SCH.

SCH was weak to begin with, very weak. With bad fairy AI (Micromanging? Plz), weak heals, and weak mitigation it was a joke.

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Or, you know, you could just be a better WHM than SCH in PvP. Which is the far more likely truth, since SCH have been competing with WHM fine pretty much since the start of FL.

Just because you're doing better at one class than another does not definitely mean that the latter is weak.

In my opinion I see a lack of defensive skill for other classes than Helaer.
Usually I play SCH but I love to switch to BLM or SMN, but when I do it, I feel totally vulnerable xD
With BLM u can atleast use Manaward (Manawall in my opinion in PvP is really less useful, it is removed even via autoattack xD), but for SMN and other DPS classes just one defensive skill is not the worst thing that they should implement xD

Healers are your defensive skills

While you guys are keep sending out message that it is other players' learn to play issue, maybe it is time for you guys to start to learn to adpot?

What happen when you stack Scholars?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...SCH-Too-Stronk

Read it yourself. You are branch off a dps class called Arcanist and Aetherflow has provided you too much for a healer. It is too strong and need a counter. They didnt blanket nerf Atherflow for Scholar (Blizzard would) and still allow you a chance to be adpot to Monk's adjustment. Just get over with it and learn to adpot it. This is not an end of world scenario. You also recommand to play different job and fidn out why they think Scholar is too strong instead of trapped in your tunneled vision world. This is armoury system, not WoW's spec system where you have to spend a lot of effort to play a different spec. Give it a try.

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Originally Posted by Titor

I can do about 5x as healing with the same gear on WHM as I could in SCH.

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Of course, because its a different playing style. WHM specializes in raw heals, SCH specializes in absorbing damage.SCH was never meant nor intended to do the same amount of healing nor even come close to it as a WHM. when I heal on WHM I do 1700+, when I heal on SCH its about half that, around 1k-ish. working as intended. And please I hope you're not going by the scoreboard on FL because 1) that counts overhealing which WHM does a ton of and it doesn't recognize damage absorption at all. now if SE made it so the scoreboard didn't count overhealing and counted absorptions, you may find WHM and SCH around similar or at least competitive numbers.

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Originally Posted by Titor

SCH was weak to begin with, very weak. With bad fairy AI (Micromanging? Plz), weak heals, and weak mitigation it was a joke.

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/munches popcorn

Now you're talkin crazy talk. I disagree that SCH was weak to begin with, at least as far as pvp was concerned. Eos was nerfed at the beginning of pvp and I believed she should have been because she was a pretty much a walking benediction. She did a shit ton of healing when in attunement. If I could find my old videos of me in the early days of pvp, you would see me going into Attunement and Eos healing me from near 0 to full in less than 2 seconds before she got nerfed. I do agree that the management of Eos is horrid.She doesn't cast spells even when spamming her abilities because she queues spells and if you have more than 1 person who is less than 80% hp on your team, even if your spamming her CDs, she will ignore you and continue casting embrace. On top of if she is moving she also doesnt cast spells either. So yes, pet management in this game in general is horrid. the worst I've ever seen in all the games I've played a pet in. and I'm not even going to begin talking about all the times in Wolves Den where she has gotten stuck behind a wall and just sat there until she was done doing whatever she was doing.

all in all SCH i wouldn't say it is a strong class, but it certainly isn't weak either. its just a harder class to play because you have to deal with fail pet management and no defensive moves.

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if you are a Scholar and you cant outplay DRG, BRD, MNK, PLD or WAR in 1 v 1 situation, you got a serious issue.

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I just had to make a comment on this, Healer wether it's WHM or a SCH will have a hard time 1 v 1 against a MNK or DRG because of Fetter Ward and Weapon Throw! I have SCh and WHM leveled I mainly play WHM in FL and Wolf Den, I spend most of my time staying away from DRG and MNK because of those 2 Abilities. When they use Fetter Ward Ability I cant Repose, Fluid Aura or use Stone to get them off of me... and when they use Weapn Throw I get Slowed then jumped.. I have to go into 911 mode in order to remove that slow and to get away. And it would be Absolutely Stupid for ANY healer to try and 1v1 a War unless you like to be Stun locked topped off with a Fulls Swing. It is NOT easy to play a healer at ALL in pvp. I am not complaining here at all abut the abilities that other classes use against us Healers but it is very clear you don't either.

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Originally Posted by Vandril

Or, you know, you could just be a better WHM than SCH in PvP. Which is the far more likely truth, since SCH have been competing with WHM fine pretty much since the start of FL.

Just because you're doing better at one class than another does not definitely mean that the latter is weak.

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Not just me in particular, but the scoreboards. I can start gathering screenshot evidence of it, but I usually see schs around 100k-150k healing, whereas whms are around 300k-500k. Even if we consider SCH's shield (which is usually basically doubling their healing), SCH's would only be around 200k-300k in healing/migitation, assuming they never used lustrate or physick or healed with their fairy. And yes schs can overheal too, just like whms. Especially if they are spamming succor or whatnot, so since both classes overheal I can just count overhealing in the mix.

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Originally Posted by Titor

Not just me in particular, but the scoreboards. I can start gathering screenshot evidence of it ...[stopped reading]

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the scoreboard is inaccurate. you see WHMs at 300-500k healing because they are spamming Medica IIs of which the scoreboard keeps counting the ticks when everyone is at full hp.

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Originally Posted by Titor

Even if we consider SCH's shield (which is usually basically doubling their healing), SCH's would only be around 200k-300k in healing/migitation

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did you pull these numbers out of your .... how do you even know this or you just making it up because you think it sounds good?

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Originally Posted by Titor

And yes schs can overheal too, just like whms. Especially if they are spamming succor or whatnot, so since both classes overheal I can just count overhealing in the mix.

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um no. nothing like WHMs can. if any SCH is spamming Succor, they need to just delete their character. both the heal and the galvanize for it are crap and could never sustain the hp of an entire group like WHM Medica II can.
To put it in perspective for you, in ilvl100 gear, it only heals for 350ish so in ilvl80 synced FL, it will do much less. that is not enough healing to sustain any group.
In ilvl100 gear, the initial hit from Medica II is 500ish, with 130ish ticks for the next 30 seconds, so in ilvl80 it will be less. but just from the initial Medica II hit, the WHM has already healed almost as much as two Succors and can run around while it still ticks as the SCHs has to keep recasting and get interrupted in most cases.

So no, SCHs overhealing is nothing like WHM healing ... by leaps and bounds.

Hmmmm... what happened to my post and that guy's post? I was going to explain why I said Scholar should win in 1 v 1 agaisnt MNK and DRG but found my original post disappeared.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Hmmmm... what happened to my post and that guy's post? I was going to explain why I said Scholar should win in 1 v 1 agaisnt MNK and DRG but found my original post disappeared.

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That was on the other thread...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/f...188168/?page=2

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Originally Posted by Koltik

That was on the other thread...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/f...188168/?page=2

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No it is this one, because I was in middle of editing my response.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

Hmmmm... what happened to my post and that guy's post? I was going to explain why I said Scholar should win in 1 v 1 agaisnt MNK and DRG but found my original post disappeared.

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http://8tracks.imgix.net/i/000/742/413/SPPOKY-4049.jpg

I think Scholars are more or less fine for now (after being able to finally test things out in WD and FL). The gameplay in WD does become harder when someone is PB dispelling and silencing during burst windows but it does make the class force the player to react properly instead of on reflex. (like how most people instantly purify the moment sleep debuffs them)

I don't agree with the person who's saying SCHs are weak or not as good, they are just different. I do agree that Eos is a little silly (she is a fairy), but the only change I would ask if I had to is that we can control her when CC'd or attuned.

If that change was made, it would create more threads in this section!

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

I think Scholars are more or less fine for now (after being able to finally test things out in WD and FL). The gameplay in WD does become harder when someone is PB dispelling and silencing during burst windows but it does make the class force the player to react properly instead of on reflex. (like how most people instantly purify the moment sleep debuffs them)

I don't agree with the person who's saying SCHs are weak or not as good, they are just different. I do agree that Eos is a little silly (she is a fairy), but the only change I would ask if I had to is that we can control her when CC'd or attuned.


If that change was made, it would create more threads in this section!

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Yes more threads from people complaining about fairy being controlled while SCH is attuned lol, There will always be some form of complaining. *omgad!! SE just made it harder to kill SCH! they can control Fairy! *sarcasm*