Summoner Summons

so i was wondering what do you think would be the chances of making it so summoners being able to summon the standard primals like leviathan, shiva, ifrit, etc. cause it would be awesome if they made it where the summoners limit break ability could do that, like if there were different limit break settings that the summoner could choose from different primals, and that was the only one they could summon until they were out of the instance they were in.

0% unfortunately.

It's a creative idea and a lot of people hate Egis but they won't be changed out for anything.

As for the limit break, we've been told since launch that they will be changing it so that every class has a unique animation. Don't hold your breath, it will probably take until the first expansion or longer.

As an alternate looking limit break - totally viable for summoner I think - as standard summons similar to the ones in FFXI - I don't think so :/

I wish, I truly wish. It would have been nice to just have a mini version of the actual summons... instead of the egis. Just the actual primal models, only x100 smaller... just like in FFXI (although they were the same size there.)

I hope SMN get to full summons, like transform their current egi into the full primal to do a large AoE. Though as others have said, I think summoners will only ever regularly summon egis of the various primals.

This is one of my biggest dissapointments with this game is the egi system, i was a huge fan of summoner in FFXI due to your towering summons, one of my favorite being Fenrir, here we just have little avatars that shoot beams, but sadly i don't see it being changed unless they rework the system entirely, i'm afraid this is a "deal with it" situation,

But on the other hand, SMN is no joke when it comes to damage output. unlike FFXI...but that is another topic alltogether.

I really hope there is a unlock to or spell for this purpose. To try and veer away from the Egi's look silly x10000 time thread that SE /blacklisted, I'll just say that I really miss the classics. Really.

An overdrive spell that makes them temporarily look classical or something. A limit break that makes the party cutely dash off the screen and back on would be awesome (like in single player FF games). Something.

I like playing summoner, I dislike looking at my summoner.. lol

well i also more mean this for like the limit break system, like when the primals themselves use their special attack, and the more limit break bar you have the stronger it will be, and unfortunately i know the is little chance for it but one can hope right, because also it would kinda go back to like the older final fantasies where you summoned a primal, GF, summons, and eidolons and they did there attack and then departed the battle field

The only reason SMNs could have the giant summons in FFXI was because the world was much larger (with a lot, a LOT more empty space). Have fun trying to click ANYTHING with every SMN keeping a life size Titan out all the time.

What i don't get is why they can't actually look like miniature primals? We have minions that are basically miniature everything as options to follow us around, what's the issue with reskinning them to look like the actual primals? Or hell take it one step further and let summoners reskin their egis with any available minion they possess (which would include, when implemented, five or six new minions related to the Primals)
It wouldn't hard anything AND give an added reason to collect more pokem- i mean, minions.

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Originally Posted by Verranicus

The only reason SMNs could have the giant summons in FFXI was because the world was much larger (with a lot, a LOT more empty space). Have fun trying to click ANYTHING with every SMN keeping a life size Titan out all the time.

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Why are you clicking? :P

F# / "t" / tab Ftw, if they're not in your party and they're not the enemy they don't need targeting :D

Spells/limit break/"combat" mode vs "idle" stance. I imagine there are a number of ways to keep them pocket sized/temporarily so- without forever looking like one of tinkerbell's palls lol


In terms of OP though, if they added specialized limit breaks for summoner.. which summon would be used for which tier? Or would it use the summon you currently have out? That'd mean if they add a new summon they'd have to add a new limit break, and possibly a new effect/purpose. I think they could save some leg work by having the first two be a SMN focused actions and the last tier based off your summon. At least that way you dont have 3 unique LBs per summon, that's a lot.

Yea but instead of having three different casts from one primal just have their special ability and it get stronger from the level of LB used, like Ifrit for example make it so you summon him and he uses Hell Fire and the damage scales the higher the lb level

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Originally Posted by ClaireFury

so i was wondering what do you think would be the chances of making it so summoners being able to summon the standard primals like leviathan, shiva, ifrit, etc. cause it would be awesome if they made it where the summoners limit break ability could do that, like if there were different limit break settings that the summoner could choose from different primals, and that was the only one they could summon until they were out of the instance they were in.

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NO! You take your Meteor and you cast it like everyone else!

Hmph! Silly Summoners and their accurate ideologies. Makes me sick!

And tell your Bard friends they can forget about Eagle Eye Shot as well!

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Originally Posted by Double

NO! You take your Meteor and you cast it like everyone else!

Hmph! Silly Summoners and their accurate ideologies. Makes me sick!

And tell your Bard friends they can forget about Eagle Eye Shot as well!

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SE mentioned they are planning on giving each Job their own limit break.

but i dont even have a summoner

Given that SE has mentioned looking into Job-specific Limit Break animations, I don't think it's entirely out-of-the-question to imagine that the Primals may be involved in some way with SMN's limit break animation. I don't expect SMNs will ever summon full-sized Primals outside of rare situations of that sort, but Limit Breaks? I could see it. No worry about screen clutter that way (at least, no more than that caused by current Limit Breaks, such as Meteor).

As hilarious as it would be to see a party of eight SMNs all lugging around full-sized Titans, I think the humor would wear thin pretty quickly. XD

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Originally Posted by ClaireFury

so i was wondering what do you think would be the chances of making it so summoners being able to summon the standard primals like leviathan, shiva, ifrit, etc. cause it would be awesome if they made it where the summoners limit break ability could do that, like if there were different limit break settings that the summoner could choose from different primals, and that was the only one they could summon until they were out of the instance they were in.

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Primals? No.
More primal looking Egis? Maybe.

Say on a chart

Egi ---------------------|-----------------Primal
Egi ------------limit egi--|-----------------Primal

I really like the FFXVI SMN job, it is my favorite job currently in the game. Specifically, I like how it adds a DoT output and gives the actual player some responsibility in their spells, rather then just sending out the summon to do it.

That being said, I think there is a lot they can do when it comes to the egi. I am less concerned by their appearance, and more the fact we are forced to use just one to be honest. I say give the player Contagion and let the pet be either a situational thing or just a personal choice. In regards to the egi designs, they perfect but I do not mind them. I quite like them in a way, although it would be nice to see the larger ones involved somehow. I like the idea of the SMN LB being a larger Primal, perhaps reflecting the one you have summoned? Enkindle could be used in a similar way too.

One of the few negative aspects of this game being a FF title, is the fact that people have certain ideas when it comes to aspects such as summons, so I am unsurprised to see some dislike there current state. As I said, I like the summoner class as it is and I would hate for it to be diminished by trying to copy, say, the FFXI version. It should be a unique job in its own rights, not a flat imitation.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I like the idea of the SMN LB being a larger Primal, perhaps reflecting the one you have summoned? Enkindle could be used in a similar way too.

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We definitely do not want the SMN limit break to be dependent on the egi in any way. Egis do die, and swiftcast may not always be available - it'd suck if this rendered the SMN unable to perform their Limit Break in a pinch situation (and if your egi is dead and swiftcast is down, that's a pretty good sign you're in a pinch situation).

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I really like the FFXVI SMN job, it is my favorite job currently in the game. Specifically, I like how it adds a DoT output and gives the actual player some responsibility in their spells, rather then just sending out the summon to do it.

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So basically, you don't like summoner, you like the rebranded WoW class :p Summoner in the series has the ability to use spells (White or Black magic) but was never THE focus of the job, which is why people largely have issues with egi aside the appearance, they're fairly useless in comparison. Garuda has the biggest use since it further enhances your DoTs.

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would hate for it to be diminished by trying to copy, say, the FFXI version.

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Then it would be an actual Summoner. Hell my Garuda in XI has a million times more use than the one in XIV, if we're to compare. The main argument against it is: "Summon then release" which hasn't been true since 2004-2005.

I personally like the way FFXIV went with smns. I could not stand going out and see all the same smns out at the same time in FFXI. It killed the feel of the game. Their is no way there is more then on Ifrit from a storyline standpoint. The egis make more sense then the full smns. But they did state they are "trying" to make it so that only one player per server per smns could get the avatar.

FF10 Summoner was perfection. You had correct size and graphics, and you had the ability to use its elemental properties, and in addition to all that you could customize skills. Pretty much 200% Summoner awesomeness and I could buy new FFs that only re-used Yuna and the summons for decades without getting bored.

FF11 Summoner had a good attempt at redoing FF10, but failed hard at global (or 2) timer to do anything interesting at all, and had a cap of -15 reduction while melee could lower their attack delay by ~80% (kind of like -45 BP timer). Complete and utter lack of gear was also a nail in the coffin. (Took 8 years before we saw any increase avatar damage gear, while other classes had their weapons and MAB boost them since launch). Naturally perpetuation was the dumbest idea ever, since it is like making a PLD lose MP as long as he has a shield equipped "because reasons".

FF14 Summoner is like SE learned from all their mistakes in FF11 and fixed all problems, but didn't understand what was already good and ruined the graphics and enjoyment from using the avatars. The current fix to all of this would be to just give us a new set of avatars in an expansion, which replace the egi-form that majority of Summoners dislike.

It is not rocket science dear Staff. We want models that remind us of past FFs, not something new and unique. Don't change a winning concept unless people are actually complaining.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

FF14 Summoner is like SE learned from all their mistakes in FF11 and fixed all problems

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That's kind of interesting, considering I recall my summons in XI being a lot more useful to not only myself but my party as well as doing a ton of damage, with Garuda, Diabolos and Fenrir topping the charts end-game. So if doing damage was an issue that they corrected by making them largely (but not completely) useless in XIV..that would be...interesting.

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Originally Posted by Stridentzephon

I personally like the way FFXIV went with smns. I could not stand going out and see all the same smns out at the same time in FFXI. It killed the feel of the game. Their is no way there is more then on Ifrit from a storyline standpoint. The egis make more sense then the full smns. But they did state they are "trying" to make it so that only one player per server per smns could get the avatar.

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You mean Garuda, Garuda everywhere?

Because of elemental and special abilities later levels did have less then desired variance but im 100% sure I saw more variance in summoning in FFXI then I have seen in FFXIV. Easy to say since FFXI has way more summons, so a bit unfair to compare buuuut.. still have seen more variance. Also SMN looked like a SMN in XI, since the summons were the focus- they are a side focus in XIV, which makes it feel less SMNery. I like the dot mechanic (ffxiv) so I haven't really called for a redo, but in terms of classic FF I'd say FFXI won the summoner award of being "a summoner".

The other main reason why so-called 'traditional' summons simply cannot work in FFXIV is because of the game's lore - the Primals are extremely dangerous, and require so much aether to summon, one solitary summoner alone simply cannot cut the mustard. Each time the beastmen summon their Primal, they require numerous SMNs all evoking the Primal at once, consuming a huge supply of crystals in order to do so. And that says nothing about the malevolent, negative influence a Primal has on those who summon them (although that is excused for player characters, seeing as they have the Echo and all).

Hence why the player SMN Job only summons an egi and not the full Primal. You're only summoning a sliver of a Primal's power which manifests as the 'egi' form and not the full Primal itself, because it's the only possible way. Not to mention the very secret of summoning was taught to the beatmen in the first place by the Ascians anyway so they kind of have the monopoly on summoning (the player SMN Job was a short-cut technique developed by the ancient Allagan Empire). So yeah, egis will be staying I'm afraid.

SMN LB should be a random pick of an actual summon. Rather than bringing the meteor get the actual summon as a LB. That would be cool. I don't think is impossible I think is question of complexity that's all.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

The other main reason why so-called 'traditional' summons simply cannot work in FFXIV is because of the game's lore

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Same lore in FFXI, actually as they're pretty much the "creators" along side gods like Altana, Promathia, Zahak and the elemental beasts of Adoulin - hence why in XI you also only gain a 'fragment' of their power as if they fully awaken, let's just say that fan will be covered in brown matter.

I love playing Summoner, but the -egis depress me.

To paraphrase a popular saying: "Please look forward to" Shiva-egi.
http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...28b7878168.jpg

I would love them to atleast show briefly to do their aoe when there 3 bars for the lb.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

That's kind of interesting, considering I recall my summons in XI being a lot more useful to not only myself but my party as well as doing a ton of damage, with Garuda, Diabolos and Fenrir topping the charts end-game. So if doing damage was an issue that they corrected by making them largely (but not completely) useless in XIV..that would be...interesting.

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It depends on how awesome the people you compare to are. I was in a great LS and because of that saw how Summoner paled in comparison for almost the entire game when it came to endgame geared jobs. We did have a Summoner DD party on VRTRA and we did have one on Odin for examples. But majority of endgame content you just threw well equipped WAR/SAM/BLM at and you'd win faster than using SMNs.

In short, SMN was the slow and safe way to try out content, and then it was "go away SMNs, we are used to the fight and need it to be fast".

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Originally Posted by myahele

I would love them to atleast show briefly to do their aoe when there 3 bars for the lb.

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The "system" for this is in place too - Ultima in Minstrel's Ballad has this effect, so they could easily implement it into normal gameplay, but it would take a sizable update to the current content to allow it though. All in all, let's not forget the main reason yoshida went with egis was because he felt the way it worked in XI it "cheapened" their power to see numerous Ifrit/garuda/etc running around, so instead we get to see hundreds of Garuda Egis everywhere.

There's a Summoner Job?

Wait...

Paladin..
Warrior..
Bard..
White Mage..
Scholar..
Warlock..
Black Mage..
Monk..
Dragoon..

Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

The "system" for this is in place too - Ultima in Minstrel's Ballad has this effect, so they could easily implement it into normal gameplay, but it would take a sizable update to the current content to allow it though. All in all, let's not forget the main reason yoshida went with egis was because he felt the way it worked in XI it "cheapened" their power to see numerous Ifrit/garuda/etc running around, so instead we get to see hundreds of Garuda Egis everywhere.

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So basically instead of have the summons cheapened, have the summoners themselves cheapened. got it XD. I remember getting summons in FFXI was awesome to first summon it and just stare in aww of your "sliver" of the primal (even there after, they looked very cool). Unlocked all three in FFXIV, couldn't decide which one I wanted to face palm to harder lol.

Moving back to limit break stuff though, if we ever get a utility summon- like a major CC/Debuffer, would the LB using that primal be different? Would give SMN a unique dual LB choice, may upset other jobs though. Still think it would be very cute to see the party scamper off screen when using the LB like in single player FF games.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

So basically, you don't like summoner, you like the rebranded WoW class :p Summoner in the series has the ability to use spells (White or Black magic) but was never THE focus of the job, which is why people largely have issues with egi aside the appearance, they're fairly useless in comparison. Garuda has the biggest use since it further enhances your DoTs.



Then it would be an actual Summoner. Hell my Garuda in XI has a million times more use than the one in XIV, if we're to compare. The main argument against it is: "Summon then release" which hasn't been true since 2004-2005.

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That is the thing though, you seem to be comparing it only to the XI job, rather then judging it by its own merits. Personally speaking, Jobs in this game should not have to compete with those of past FF titles, they should be judged on their own merits and strengths as if they are brand new creations. As I said before, I think there is a lot more they can do with the egi so I agree there role can be heightened, but for the most part I am very happy with the core aspects of the job.

Each to their own, though.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

We definitely do not want the SMN limit break to be dependent on the egi in any way. Egis do die, and swiftcast may not always be available - it'd suck if this rendered the SMN unable to perform their Limit Break in a pinch situation (and if your egi is dead and swiftcast is down, that's a pretty good sign you're in a pinch situation).

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Hmm, good point. Perhaps it could randomized? Any Primal you have unlocked, for example.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

That is the thing though, you seem to be comparing it only to the XI job, rather then judging it by its own merits. Personally speaking, Jobs in this game should not have to compete with those of past FF titles, they should be judged on their own merits and strengths as if they are brand new creations. As I said before, I think there is a lot more they can do with the egi so I agree there role can be heightened, but for the most part I am very happy with the core aspects of the job.

Each to their own, though.

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Actually, my comparison is to all of them - Because in XI it was pretty much an 'evolution' of the previous FF Summoners, which it was more of the successor to FFX's because X was the first time you had direct control of a summon in the series. This is why I said even as the summoner itself they could use white/black magic too, so that part of the warlock summoner is correct in XIV's iteration, but it was never the true focus perse.

Maybe with the expansion, Square can put in a quest to Summon a stronger version of the primal that can be controlled by the warriors of light.

Egi is a fraction of the essence of a true Primal like 5%. With the expansion maybe wil would be able to summon up 30% which will maybe change their appearance.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Summoner in the series has the ability to use spells (White or Black magic) but was never THE focus of the job,

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Why must you turn my office into a house of lies?

Rydia was more effective as a Black Mage

Eiko and Garnet spent most of their time casting White Magic

If you had to rely on your Summons in FFX you where doing something SERIOUSLY wrong, to the point where the game punished you for relying on them from the midway point onwards.

I love how people are advocating for less pandering to the lowest common denominator then immediately say Summoners NEED Massive Gojira-sized God Monsters with Michael Bay Explosions for attacks (Before you get on my case I am exaggerating for comic effect. Unless it's Akiza who seriously wants this)

Or maybe have the lb for smn be a giant version of the egi (think lv 50 smn quest boss) that does a large aoe (with or with status debuffs). It can be called "grand summoning"

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Actually, my comparison is to all of them - Because in XI it was pretty much an 'evolution' of the previous FF Summoners, which it was more of the successor to FFX's because X was the first time you had direct control of a summon in the series. This is why I said even as the summoner itself they could use white/black magic too, so that part of the warlock summoner is correct in XIV's iteration, but it was never the true focus perse.

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Even so, you are still comparing it to past iterations of the job trope. In my own opinion, new titles should not live under the shadow of past incarnations, but enhance or add there own twist to it. I think the addition and deeper incorporation of DoT over White/Black magic spells is a nice twist and gets the player more involved with the combat rather the just letting the egi do most of the work (Although as I said, I do think they need to be incorporated more into our rotation).

You and others may think this just makes it a cheap rip-off and nothing much else, if so then then each to their own. I hope one day the job becomes something everyone here can enjoy. I myself just happen to really enjoying playing as this warlock rip-off as it is for now! :p

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

The other main reason why so-called 'traditional' summons simply cannot work in FFXIV is because of the game's lore...

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Well actually SE shot themselves in the foot with the so-called "lore" of theirs in re-guards to Summoners and Primals.

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In times immemorial, there lived mages who had not only the power to summon the primals, but also the means to transmute the primals' essences, thus binding them to their will. Known simply as summoners, the existence of these men and women and their arcane art have been all but lost to the ages.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/game/#!/jobs/content

According to this page of SMN lore, SMN's have the power to summon Primals AND transmute their essence as well.

OT:
I really hope we do get full primal summons as a way of our own personal Limit Break that would finally breath life into what Summoner is supposed to be.

And when most people ask for better primal looking summons they aren't usually asking for full bodied Primals the size of the actual Primals it's more just about the detail, which I agree with and would agree with in a smaller increase of size too. Just my opinion. It's all about them aesthetics.