FFXIV ARR: Battle System Flaws

There are a lot of good things about FFXIV ARR battle system. The stellar animations and faced paced tempo are just two of the many things that the team has done excellently.

I am disappointed, however, that in a year of FFXIV ARR updates there have been very little, if no significant changes to the battle system. Over the past year these are the things I've noticed:

1. (I don't want this thread to digress into this specific point because it's turned into a dead horse on these forums, but it wouldn't be doing this post justice if I didn't mention it quickly.)

There is still too much delay in the battle system. Sacred soil, provoking a monster, placing virus on a target, stoneskinning, position update mechanics for melee, the list goes on and on. The delay is brutal sometimes.

2. Resource Management In short, there is none. We have this pseudo-fake system of resource management with TP and MP. Play within the rules and there is no running out of your resource. Why is this an issue? If there's no challenge in managing your resources, challenging encounters have to "kill" you in other ways. If resource management were more difficult, encounters could afford to have less insta-gib-jumping-over-the-flaming-skipping-rope mechanics. Which brings me to my next point...

3. Difficult Encounters and the Fiery Skipping Rope Ever feel like when you enter a new encounter, you're relearning everything from scratch? Extreme Primals and Coil are the two big culprits for this one.

There is no intrinsic difficulty to FFXIV's combat system. Because of this, 100% of the difficulty has to lie within the encounter.

A party's success in difficult FFXIV encounters is about 10% gear, 10% knowing your role/job, and 80% learning the encounter mechanics. This makes new encounters stressful and frustrating. Yes, every encounter should be difficult and hopefully bring a new set of challenges. But the whole difficulty should not come from the encounter.

If the distribution to a party's success was more around the 40% player skill, 30% gear and 30% knowing the encounter, developers could make challenging content that didn't rely on almost completely on the Fiery Skipping Rope.



The vision of an MMORPG's combat system can change a lot over the course of its life span. FFXIV: ARR is still a very new MMORPG, and I'm sure that in future updates and expansions we'll see a reworking of the battle system. But, the current system seems to discourage a lot of people from trying the truly difficult and challenging encounters.

I really love this game as a whole. The only thing that I absolutely despise about this game is system latency/delay/global cooldown this game has. It's just not twitchy, and I can't tell you how frustrating it is to have a game that is fairly new be years behind games that were coming out in 2004-2005. I think it's hilarious that I can have zero lag, but if bad things drop on the ground, I risk getting hit by it because there's positioning issues within the game.

I think Yoshi commented on this in the beginning of 2.0 and he said there were no plans to change it. I can't stress how clunky so many mechanics feel because of it, and I refuse to play a melee-based class because the 2.5 global is just painful.

All in all, great game. If there is room for improvement, your post hit it spot on.

I actually disagree with 2 and 3. I don't consider either of those to be a detractor.

For me, the game has continued to be interesting as I progress because each encounter is a new level of difficulty. In other MMOs, encounters get boring before they even release, since the difficulty lies in something outside that encounter and having the encounter itself be hard would just make it a pain, rather than fun. In this case, the system itself is relatively forgiving, while individual encounters are not.

What this means is that I need to learn each encounter on its own merits. I feel like a newbie all over again, every time... a feeling that I quickly lose in most MMOs, even after expansions release.

I agree entirely with #1, and while I understand where you are coming from for #2 and #3... I disagree completely.

no thanks I like the battle system how it is right now.

party mechanics change I wont have a problem with it, though if battle mechanics change we have a problem.

Every boss in the end game being a dance/pattern memorization is kind of silly. It's not like in old FF games you just lost to a boss over and over until you knew it's exact pattern and how to counter every attack.

Don't get me wrong, the game is challenging and a lot of fun, but something about memorizing every single move of an enemy with zero mistakes clashes with how I've enjoyed Final Fantasy or even Square RPGs in general for as long as I can remember.

I'm not saying randomizing everything is a great idea either. But I think gear should be able to carry you more than it does. That may sound like a "baddie" thing to say, but it seems silly to go from i90 to i110 and still get one shot by twisters or landslides or something. If you think of classic FF or Dragon Quest, whenever you got to a difficult boss, you would always grind some gear, change your jobs around, level up, build your party, etc. One shot dance mechanics make the game sorta lose that classic jrpg/ff feeling in my personal opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seibah

Every boss in the end game being a dance/pattern memorization is kind of silly.

---

well that battle mechanic can change the one where you know exactly whats coming up that I agree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reality_check

-Snip-

---

1. The delay isn't really that big when you think about it. Provoking is instant and the effect is instant as long as the person you're not voking off of does actions (to regain the hate you're putting yourself at the same level of.)

2. People said complexity of any kind is bad for MMORPGs, Yoshi listened to them.

3. To be fair this is good and bad because you should relearn as you enter new encounters - however it's a bit much simply because of auto kill mechanics more than anything. A lot of XI fights you could go in and do what you do normally but the boss tend to throw in loops that give them their own set of difficulties, for example Omega's Quad/Bipedal modes completely changing the fight without throwing in an annoying instant kill mechanic if he does like it would be in XIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tupsi

1. The delay isn't really that big when you think about it. Provoking is instant and the effect is instant as long as the person you're not voking off of does actions (to regain the hate you're putting yourself at the same level of.)

---

The action is instant and the enmity is instant because those are client based calculations that you see. The target of the target won't change for a second or two as it takes time for the server to process those.

I agree with the battle system being a bit of a wash, but #2 I'm on the fence about and #3 I disagree with. Encounters SHOULD have the difficulty within the encounter; if the encounter's not the difficult part, and it's instead in the class you're playing, then it's back to the EQ1 style of combat; It's not a hard fight, but it's given false difficulty because you aren't provided with the tools you need. It's like doing a mini-golf course, except instead of putters they give you pool cues.

But as far as everything being server side, and the 2.5 second GCD, I agree. It makes combat feel slow, clunky, and sticky, and feels like something we would've had to put up with 15 years ago - not today.

I'd say my biggest complaint about the combat system would be how useless most macros are. Like if I want to put physic and ruin on one macro so I can heal if my targets friendly and attack if it's not...well I *can* do it. But now that button's going to be clunky and unresponsive. And that goes for any macro with a ability on the gcd in it. So there's a lot of UI cluster when there doesn't need to be.

The blanket reasoning for it seems to be they don't want the macros playing the game for you. But if they don't want you to be able to do something with a macro don't allow it. Don't just make macros in general bad.

"There's no resource management"

*Plays Arcanist as main*

http://media.tumblr.com/198d0aebaf36...gOn1snpzkg.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by subteraneanbird

"There's no resource management"

*Plays Arcanist as main*

http://media.tumblr.com/198d0aebaf36...gOn1snpzkg.png

---

Resources like TP and MP on any job in the game are only there to prevent you from using certain skills too many times. And, even then, the only consequence is a brief moments of inactivity while you regenerate back to full.

There is no strategic use of TP or MP in this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reality_check

Resources like TP and MP on any job in the game are only there to prevent you from using certain skills too many times. And, even then, the only consequence is a brief moments of inactivity while you regenerate back to full.

There is no strategic use of TP or MP in this game.

---

In an extended fight, especially semi-challenging ones, it's fairly easy to run out of TP, or MP as a WHM. The fact that Mage Ballad is 'ever' useful implies that there very much is limited resources to manage, same with Invigorate, which is only a temporary bit of extra. Needing to slow down ability use to prevent running out of TP is the same, and the more Skill Speed you have, the faster it happens.

Simply because resources don't matter on trash pulls, doesn't mean anything. It's not 'intended' to run out, that'd add complexity to short, common fights, which rather goes against game style.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrAM

In an extended fight, especially semi-challenging ones, it's fairly easy to run out of TP, or MP as a WHM.

---

Turn 8, TP needs to be managed and cooldowns timed for TP recovery. T9 is very mana intensive for WHM. But for obvious reasons, the more you overgear the content, the less of an issue resource management becomes. Doing content at the recomended ilvl will start to put more of a strain on resources.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapphic

Turn 8, TP needs to be managed and cooldowns timed for TP recovery. T9 is very mana intensive for WHM. But for obvious reasons, the more you overgear the content, the less of an issue resource management becomes. Doing content at the recomended ilvl will start to put more of a strain on resources.

---

Which I'd imagine is exactly how things should be. Overgearing content always makes it a breeze, and it's one of the biggest issues with our end game right now.

Pre-50 dungeons can actually be harder then the newer 50 dungeons simply because of the level/ilvl sync. If they'd enforce an ilvl range to 'all' dungeons, we wouldn't have nearly the level of easy content we have now.

Just imagine what these dungeons are going to be like once they raise the level cap and do, presumably, enforce a sync.

Main thing that irritates me about the battle engine is the huge disconnect of the AoE indicators disappearing, and then the animation of the attack going off. The attack animations should be preparing in the middle of the indicator's duration so you actually get 'hit' by the animation effect right as the indicator fades out, and not a whole second later.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapphic

Turn 8, TP needs to be managed and cooldowns timed for TP recovery. T9 is very mana intensive for WHM. But for obvious reasons, the more you overgear the content, the less of an issue resource management becomes. Doing content at the recomended ilvl will start to put more of a strain on resources.

---

The TP/MP system should influence combat in EVERY single encounter for EVERY single job. The system is moot if it's only for adding depth to turn 8 for bards, dragoons and monks and turn 9 for white mages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrAM

Overgearing content always makes it a breeze, and it's one of the biggest issues with our end game right now.
.

---

This is the complete opposite to how it is. If you don't know the mechanics of the fight, you're going to die no matter what ilevel your gear is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reality_check

The TP/MP system should influence combat in EVERY single encounter for EVERY single job. The system is moot if it's only for adding depth to turn 8 for bards, dragoons and monks and turn 9 for white mages.

---

You know what's not fun?

Being able to do high DPS and then being slapped on the wrist and told to stick my thumb up my butt and stand around for fifteen seconds because my TP gets constantly drained. It's nothing but an artificial limiter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reality_check

This is the complete opposite to how it is. If you don't know the mechanics of the fight, you're going to die no matter what ilevel your gear is.

---

This only matters for the one hit kill attacks and attacks that remove you from the fight, while there may be 'one' in most high end boss fights, it's still only one mechanic that you must, at all times, deal with. Everything else can be, and eventually is, overgeared. Just look at this thread that popped up recently: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-runs%21%21%21

Initially complains about overgearing making fights harder or impossible, but quickly turns around as people point out all the ways to ignore mechanics or handle them differently. Generally, more easily.

Just because you can't stand in one place the entire fight doesn't mean you can't overgear it. You can take more damage, healers can pick up more slack, and overall damage ends the fight that much faster. It all gets easier with better gear.

Sure... resource managemnt is non existant... tell me another good joke... As a bard my TP can be drained within the first few opening minutes of a longer fight - depending if I get procs or not. T5 by the end of the initial adds I will generally be at half TP. By the time first neurolink drops I'm more likely to be at 0 TP(and I tend to already use one invigorate by this time)(it's also why I hate skill speed). So by that time I switch to auto attack to regen my TP to be able to help with conflags(oww what's that you say no strategic use?). Getting into a conflag is a godsend for me since it will allow me to usually fully regen TP. So yes there are strategic uses if you know what you are doing. I do like the 2.5s GCD. But I agree about some positional updates and certain skills taking a while to actually activate.

the only thing that bugs me, about the battle system, is the fact that BLM's procs activates only when Fire lands on the target, instead of when casted.
that usually requires that you wait till the spell lands,before the next cast, or else you lose a proc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eissels

You know what's not fun?

Being able to do high DPS and then being slapped on the wrist and told to stick my thumb up my butt and stand around for fifteen seconds because my TP gets constantly drained. It's nothing but an artificial limiter.

---

Yeah, if only there were.....I don't know...materia that could cut your TP usage by a % or boost your TP per hit...or a support class that's actually support and can focus on buffing the party and keeping TP and such up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruskie

Sure... resource managemnt is non existant... tell me another good joke... As a bard my TP can be drained within the first few opening minutes of a longer fight

---

To be fair this is more due to BRD having zero combos in this version XIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tupsi

Yeah, if only there were.....I don't know...materia that could cut your TP usage by a % or boost your TP per hit...or a support class that's actually support and can focus on buffing the party and keeping TP and such up.
To be fair this is more due to BRD having zero combos in this version XIV.

---

Well WHM needs to manage MP and WAR needs to manage TP... I get asked by WARs rarely but still happens for TP song and even mana song from PLDs. Only jobs I never got asked for either is BLM, DRG and MNK.

I think skillspeed should affect TP regen and spellspeed MP regen. Would be more usable than currently is.

Overall, I really don't have a problem with the battle system, except for the "Team Jump Rope" mechanics (ie: scripted battles). I don't think it should be 100% random, but, it would be cool if bosses could mix things up from time to time. Just to keep people on their toes.

Also, I really don't have a problem with the GDC; but what would they do with stats like skill speed and spell speed if they got rid of the GDC. Not being snarky, I'm just curious. Would they allocate those numbers to various other stats? To be honest, I'm not exactly sure if spell speed effects the GDC like skill speed, or the actual casting timer.

Also, I would like the ability to do /wait 2.5 or /wait 1.5 in my macros, I think that would be nice.

Yawn, Another bad who had to memorize titan rotation to beat it.

Guess what if your player skill was high enough you didn't have to.

Have fun playing hello kitty online.

I agree with 1 but not 2 and 3. As a whm, MP managment can be hard sometimes and I just have no idea what you mean with #3... isn't that what new fights are supposed to be about? New mechanics, figuring out how to beat them... i actually like that gear doesn't matter that much.

The battle system is decent. I just wish they removed or improved Skill Speed. Right now it's almost completely worthless as a stat and yet it's so horribly common on gear. I wouldn't vomit every time I saw it if it at least increased auto-attack speed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShinkuTachi

Also, I would like the ability to do /wait 2.5 or /wait 1.5 in my macros, I think that would be nice.

---

You can. :) I'm guessing you are on a Playstation? At first, we couldn't use the decimals in our macros, but now we can.
I have /ac Stoneskin <2> <wait 3.5> in one of my macros (for example).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sadana

You can. :) I'm guessing you are on a Playstation? At first, we couldn't use the decimals in our macros, but now we can.
I have /ac Stoneskin <2> <wait 3.5> in one of my macros (for example).

---

Oh ok, thank you for pointing that out. I'll be trying it out soon ^^
I remember trying that out a long time ago and it didn't work, so I haven't bothered trying since.