SE why??

Okay, for those that don't know me. I'm a patient person. I enjoy a grind in a game, i enjoy putting some good time in, and reaping my rewards for doing so.

However. Seriously SE, what the HEEEELL were you thinking with this Atma Crystal RNG crap? I've not had a drop in DAYS, however a friend who started last night now has 4 or 5. I'm sitting at 3. Yes, 3. After about a week.

I've got patience with you SE. I accept you can't get everything right, but to lock this damned weapon (which at that point , doesn't even upgrade stats) behind a damned roll of the dice. You're making me very bloody upset.

Sort it out please.

Took me about 2-3 weeks to get all my Atma. Then another 2-3 weeks farming myth and completing books. Frustrating? Yes. Was it worth it? To me, yes. I can proudly wield my glowy bow knowing I put the effort into it.

Lol, I wondered how long it would take for an "if it's worth it you'll do it" reply. Yes, i realise a lot of people out there will be saying "oh well we did it by grinding". As I said, I don't mind a grind. But this is bloody pathetic. Here diligent player, roll a dice! oh, you didn't get the number 1 out of a 100? Go roll again!

I know i'm not alone in being irritated by this. A skill gate, sure. Behind some rock hard quest line or dungeons, sure. Damn even a once a week reward of an atma? Yeah, I'd take that. It's this literal starting by telling myself "well, might get one tonight, all tonight, or none tonight. There is no timeframe on this, no skill required but to mindlessly grind on simple fates, over and over.

Relic weapons are designed to be powerful weapons that can be gotten by anyone, regardless of skill level, exchanging the 'skill gate' for a grind that gets you the second best weapon in the game.

Its an alternative for people who cannot complete Coil 2 (Or whatever the newest raid is at the time). It is not there for your approval. It's not here to be fast. It's here to give you a chance if you are currently not up to the end game raiding snuff.

I say this as someone who just got Coil 2 unlocked about a week ago, and who's unlikely to get High A. stuff any time soon.

If you want a faster weapon that is obtained through skill, then get into Coil 2. If you cannot do so, then don't get pissy because SE didn't make what might be considered by some a freebie (Skill wise) 'easy' enough for you.

If Relic weapons were supposed to be for "anyone can easily do", then I am stumped to why people were stuck on Titan Hard for weeks and months at a time before the nerfs came.

lol, i'm currently working on titan extreme, and coil 5. i'm pretty sure i'll get to second coil soon enough. Yeah, i'll probably get a wep from there, but i have no doubt at some point soon relic weapon is going to overtake dropped weapons.

Seriously though, yeah, i get it. i take my hat off to you who can sink hours a day into trying to get 1 atma crystal and walking away with nothing. i bow to your almighty patience. The fact remains, this is a STUPID system of luck.

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Originally Posted by Bombast

It is not there for your approval. It's not here to be fast. It's here to give you a chance if you are currently not up to the end game raiding snuff.

.... If you cannot do so, then don't get pissy because SE didn't make what might be considered by some a freebie (Skill wise) 'easy' enough for you.

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As a paying customer, I'm pretty damn sure it's there for my approval. Do a quick forum search and see how much 'approval' this system has gotten. And no, it's not a freebie. As mentioned in my original post, i don't mind a grind (go look at my craft/gather classes .. those are a feasible grind), i just don't like a luck based 'you may never actually get this' system.

Divine, I sounded like you back when this Atma stuff came out. My wife and a friend of mine were all doing this atma thing at the same time. After a few days, I was 2/12, wife was 6/12 and friend was 9/12. That was with all of us fate-ing the same amount of time. However, the RNG, since it IS random does even out. Another 3 days and I was 9/12, wife was 10/12 and friend was done. Point is, my wife got 4 in 3 days and I got 7. It more or less evened out.

But what Bombast said is spot on. Atma/Animus/Novus weapons are obtainable by people with never stepping into very difficult content. The exchange of spending hours learning how to do second coil (which you can't be carried through) vs killing a whole lot of level 40 and under stuff and doing some dungeons, fates, leves... I won't say it takes less time to learn coil than to obtain an animus, but you can do the grind for animus with little challenge.

Hey Dspguy. Yeah, i can't understand the RNG will even out eventually, can't stay unlucky all the time huh? :P

But yeah, as i say i don't in any way diminish the work people are putting in for these, and i do complain about it but i'll still get on with it xD. Personally I want to be working on animus AND doing the higher level content anyway. I'm just a bit miffed with severe bad luck with the roll of the dice lol!

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Originally Posted by Divine_Intervention

As a paying customer, I'm pretty damn sure it's there for my approval. Do a quick forum search and see how much 'approval' this system has gotten. And no, it's not a freebie. As mentioned in my original post, i don't mind a grind (go look at my craft/gather classes .. those are a feasible grind), i just don't like a luck based 'you may never actually get this' system.

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I always love the 'paying customer' argument.

You are not paying for gear, easy times, and blow jobs delivered to your house. You are paying for entrance to a game. A game that requires effort of some sort to get a reward. If it doesn't require effort, and you pay for it, it's 'pay to win.' If that's what your looking for, there are a multitude of options available to you. You can try Mechwarrior Online, or Defiance.

lmao bombast. once again, re-read my post. i DON'T MIND WORK in a game. this is not work. this SECTION of the game is chance. ALL chance. You've worked for your weapon some say, i disagree, you just got lucky with fate drops. 1 hour or 50 hours, it's all luck. I have NO issue with putting work into getting gear. I have issue with a lazy game system that is PURE CHANCE.

So, let's repeat again, just in case you didn't get it. "It is NOT working for a weapon that's an issue, it's the system it is based on". Try to keep up.

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

Took me about 2-3 weeks to get all my Atma. Then another 2-3 weeks farming myth and completing books. Frustrating? Yes. Was it worth it? To me, yes. I can proudly wield my glowy bow knowing I put the effort into it.

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You know I came back after a little break and I think the most irritating thing with the myth farm is just composition. Hey I'm a monk, my options are get Myth slower or level another class. I can't really blame people for not wanting 2 to 4 minutes added on to their run from bringing a non BLM/BRD/SMN.

I think honestly there is a really good point about AOE damage and dungeon design wrapped up in this myth farm that EVERYONE is missing. There is a fundamental error in design here that really makes this frustrating for a few classes. You had the same thing happening in WoW when content wasn't made challenging enough. People simply did it as fast as possible, classes that could not contribute to that speed were left in the dust.

Completing a book every 3 days is hardly "being left in the dust"...

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Originally Posted by Divine_Intervention

It is NOT working for a weapon that's an issue, it's the system it is based on

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I think most of us agree, doing FATEs and getting nothing is discouraging.

I decided to take it easy, cap the soldiery tomes weekly, level alt classes, do FATEs while I queue, and try to not obsess with FATEs. It takes longer, yes, but you do other things in the meantime. I did like that, and maybe 1 week with no atmas, 2 atmas in 1 day, another week and no atmas, etc. You may well have bad luck all the time for a long time. 3 atmas in one week is quite good, unless you spend a lot of hours a day. At this pace you'll have the atma weapon in 4 weeks. BUT...it may be much better or worse.

The books are better in a way, since you know what work you have to do and how much it will take. BUT you get really bored of farming myth tomes. I don't know how much time it took me, but a bit under a week for each book x 9 books, between 7 and 8 weeks. Not doing anything else but farming myth tomes and fulfilling the books. While I farmed atmas I did other things since I couldn't stand farming more atmas, lol. But you farm myths and complete the books because you know you will advance. What is better?

When you reach the Animus (just arrived) then you have to farm another 1.500 myth tomes for the scroll!!!

At least now, if you just do your expert roulette daily you get 1 map and hopefully 1 alexandrite daily if you don't die doing the map, 75 days. You want things quick? Then you can farm myth and buy mysterious maps (I can't hear speaking about that right now, lol) or farm FATEs to see if an Alexandrite drops, (humm, not my favourite plate ;-). I think I may have time to do other things if I just do the Expert Roulette daily and the map and forget about farming myth tomes or FATEs. It takes time? Let's be it.

Someone who is in a hurry can pay a lot of myth tomes for a mysterious map (800 I think) or farm fates like for the atma and see if an alexandrite drops (I tried, no drops in this first day.) I think people who are in a hurry are made to pay it dearly. I don't think it is worth it for me.

Edit: As you see, I opted for not repeating Brayflox HM speed runs ad nauseam. I have tried SR and sometimes they have worked, even duty roulettes Speed Runs work fine with the right group, but finding a group that works well with the Party Finder is not that easy. I don't find it's to my liking to practice with a group till it works, changing members, etc., then next day start looking for a new group and start practicing again.

Making a static group may be wonderful, although farming with a lot of repetition. But if you do roulettes you also repeat content, at least the Main Story Roulette has only 2 varieties. Making it last as less as possible is also a good sensation. Anyway 1.500 tomes are 30 Speed Runs. Also several days of roulettes...

Maybe farming 800 tomes for a mysterious map doing Brayflox HM 2 bosses in a super SR is not as horrible as it seems to me, I don't know. This would be 16 Brayflox HM 2 bosses for 1 mysterious map, and you can co-operate with the maps in 2 groups of 2 players. With a static it doesn't look that bad. Especially compared with "n" FATEs for the alexandrite.

Even then, there is a lot of new content coming in next patch so we can as well obtain the upgrades as we also do the new content.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Completing a book every 3 days is hardly "being left in the dust"...

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First of all this is a comment in reference to what happened in WoW, certain classes getting less popular because they can't AOE Nuke being left in the dust. It's something that happens when dungeons get too easy to AOE. It also promotes a real crappy style of play in my opinion.

Though getting 50 Myth about every 5 minutes while compared to doing what 3 or 4 roulette? It's certainly a disparity. It's irritating to see people who desperately want more dungeon farm badge grinds. I guess if the devs are listening to you I really will have to level a BLM, tank, or healer simply to get my relic on my DPS charcter.

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Originally Posted by Worm

I guess if the devs are listening to you I really will have to level a BLM, tank, or healer simply to get my relic on my DPS charcter.

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If you want it in a couple of days, yes - otherwise the disparity is non existent. You can just do roulette and do a book every 3 days, which is hardly being left in the dust, hence my comment. I know he was referencing WoW but nothing of the sort is happening here, so there's no comparison to be made. There are other ways to get myth besides speedrunning Brayflox, and they are perfectly viable for any class, unless you're in a hurry. If you really want it now and are willing to spend hours farming the same dungeon... you can put in a little more extra effort and do it with the most desired class.

A lazy and uninteresting system isn't made by better by accessibility.

two 20 hour sessions of Straight Fate farming, right when the patch released, amounting to just about 1000 Fates.

Then

about a Week and a half to finish the books.

I suspect some time in 2.35 or 2.4 SE will increase the drop rates for Atma Stones.

Please Look Forward to It!

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Originally Posted by Moqi

If you really want it now and are willing to spend hours farming the same dungeon... you can put in a little more extra effort and do it with the most desired class.

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Changing class is not an option, you would obtain the upgrade for another job's weapon.

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Originally Posted by Valmar

I suspect some time in 2.35 or 2.4 SE will increase the drop rates for Atma Stones.

Please Look Forward to It!

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Of course Atmas will drop easier, and later also Alexandrites, who also drop with FATEs, but not very soon, I suppose.

People have made a lot of effort for their Animus weapons, and also for their End game drop weapons, just because they are better than the Animus.

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Originally Posted by JonBigwood

snip

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Yep, your entire post was precisely my point. I started off by using the system you do/did, just doing it now and then as i was near one, that yielded a little. Eventually though, i'm pretty much full 90/100 gear, trying to down extremes and t5, which is difficult to find a group for, so this is how i pass my time xD

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Originally Posted by JonBigwood

Changing class is not an option, you would obtain the upgrade for another job's weapon.

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I was talking about farming myth with Brayflox speedruns.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I was talking about farming myth with Brayflox speedruns.

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I know, but If you want the Monk's weapon, changing to BLM and obtaining the BLM's weapon is not an option (for obtaining the Monk's weapon, that is.)

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Originally Posted by JonBigwood

Changing class is not an option, you would obtain the upgrade for another job's weapon.

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I think he means specifically for the myth farming. I've been doing my MNK's weapon, but all of the atma and a lot of the myth farming has been done on BLM.

EIDT: Beaten, but kinda funny that I've been doing exactly what's 'not an option', though it's just a coincidence. I had BLM leveled already.

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Originally Posted by Nutz

I think he means specifically for the myth farming. I've been doing my MNK's weapon, but all of the atma and a lot of the myth farming has been done on BLM.

EIDT: Beaten, but kinda funny that I've been doing exactly what's 'not an option', though it's just a coincidence. I had BLM leveled already.

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Ah, now I understand. Of course you can obtain the myth tomes and also the atmas with one job and spend them on another, I thought the suggestion was to change jobs forever, misunderstanding... :-) You need to complete the books with the weapon you want to upgrade, that's for sure ;-)

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Originally Posted by Moqi

*snip*

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Well it's not happening yet. Though if you continue to see this trend of the preferred way of running dungeons being AOE spam you'll have a lot of trouble finding non-roulette groups. Especially if there will be a tome nerf each extra part of this relic there is, unless they start Soldiery Tomes for the next branch with this nerf in place to begin with. Honestly my issue isn't the grind but instead the style of which current content dungeons are being run.

Also roulettes take time. I mean are you doing all yours in under an hour? I guess it all depends on your luck having to do 4 roulettes a day is a little much. Of course I'm sure you'll reassure me it's the same exact thing as being able to get 10 tomes a minute.

If they keep this design for the next relic I'll definitely be leveling a BLM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nutz

I think he means specifically for the myth farming. I've been doing my MNK's weapon, but all of the atma and a lot of the myth farming has been done on BLM.

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This is what I meant. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

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Originally Posted by Worm

[...]

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Dude, if you want to speedrun, you'll have to use the fastest party, otherwise what kind of speedrun is it? This game is throwing myth at you everywhere. You have maps, you have beast tribes, you have roulettes, dungeons and raids, and soon we'll have even more options, with frontlines and whatnot. If you want the fastest way, which currently is AoE trash mobs down in Brayflox, then you're gonna have to play a job that does just that, it seems pretty logical. Otherwise, you can get myth in other ways - that don't take that much more time and you can do it in other ways. Again, a book every 3 days is not and endless wait. I'm doing just that btw. It's perfectly designed to be completed by any class at the same amount of time - and with the armory system, anybody can take the "Brayflox shortcut" regardless of the weapon they want to upgrade. There is no issue.


Anyway, this is about Atma, not Animus, so I'll stop here. For OP I've got not much to say except keep trying. I got 7 Atmas in 2 days and the 8th after 3 weeks of nothing. Just don't obsess over it, do some FATEs while you wait for other things and eventually you'll have 12. The more you think about it the more it'll piss you off, so don't. If it makes you feel better, it's downhill from there.

I'm not saying anything about the myth grind being an endless wait. I'm saying that having AOE farm being the optimal way of running dungeons is bad and will have negative side effects. I don't even know if you're reading posts at this point. I mean it's certainly not perfectly designed and I sure don't think I'm going to be getting 500 Myth as fast as a farming group by going through four roulettes. It's just becoming another daily grind at that point

I mean honestly we're in agreement here. You just can't stand a flaw in the design being point out and want to show me how it's really not a problem because I have the option of just leveling up the optimal class! So there's really no issue with some classes being bad for dungeon runs because you can just level up an optimal class! I mean if they go with this myth grind for the next step I guess I'll do just that. Though it's certainly not "no issue" because I need to cap out another class to reduce my daily chore farming.

I finished the atma and aminus grinding but I decided to quit as I predict the game will require me to invest more and more time in boring content. To maintain the progress, one have to do at least daily roulettes and the weekly binding coil, but the weapon quest just takes up all my daily limited playing time and even some of my rl and I can't see the end as SE can extend it indefinitely. One may say that you don't need to do it if you don't like, if I have that mentality, I won't be a MMO player, and that's y I quited. I am not saying that grinding is not a good thing as it is a good time killer when one gets nothing to do, but I just prefer to spend my time doing more pleasure rl things.

The worst part is that for classes like SCH the relic weapon quest line is actually BiS slot at the moment. So as someone who mains SCH I don't have too much incentive of doing t9 for the book. As the high allagan gives +46 crit and +26 piety( scholars are not starved for piety as they have a low cost physic and get free heals from pet on top of having aetherflow and drain) The novus weapon can have +44 crit and +31 det, so the difference in crit is negligible and with det I will get bigger heals over all. So...if relic was intended to be second BiS then the system is terrible as this is obviously not true and on top there's no guarantee that they will ever get passed the atma part of the quest line....so that's not really fair with coil at least SOMETHING drops.

Update: As of 2.3, the Animus and Novus upgrades will be getting easier with all the increased myth gains from bosses and dungeon completions! But atma questline is still solely based on luck. Yoshi and the devs have decided that an RNG only system is still the logical way to go. This makes me ROFL. They have lost touch with reality i think. They deliberately decrease the time needed to complete the second and third parts of the weapon upgrade, yet do nothing to help those who are not as lucky as everyone else.

As the great Yoshi would say: Please look forward to it, but its working as intended so screw you guys. HAHAHAHHAHAHA!

Divine, I spent 50 hours grinding my 12 atma. It was by far the most irritating part of the quest. I can tell you how it's worth it and all but I know when you're getting no reward after days of grinding it starts to feel pretty hopeless. My best advice is to just take a break from the frustration and do something else for a few days.

The way Atma work for me:
- join region you need an Atma from and do Fates for 20 min
- if there is no Atma then switch to another job and try another 20 min
- if there is still no Atma go do some dungeons

Got all Atma in couple of weeks doing fates about 30-40 min a day. Noticed that Atma drops for me when I actually do my job well (like having hate of all mobs whole duration of fate as tank or killing mobs super fast as dps). Also noticed from my friends and fc members that they got Atma much faster using jobs they are best at - so if you have multiple jobs with Zenith weapon, try to switch to other.

If you have just 1 job and people in dungeons still often try to give you advice on how to get better (or simply say that you suck) then your Atma grind might tike "a while longer".

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Originally Posted by Adler

If you have just 1 job and people in dungeons still often try to give you advice on how to get better (or simply say that you suck) then your Atma grind might tike "a while longer".

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Skill has nothing to do with drop rate.

Update, as of the opening of this thread, still stuck at three atma. At least 4 hours a day farming different areas. Just about ready to give up on this if it wasn't for the fact i prefer the stats of the eventual whm novus over the high allagan. -facepalm- sort it out square enix! at least increase the drop rate. (can someone confirm, current drop rate of atma is about 3%?)

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

Took me about 2-3 weeks to get all my Atma. Then another 2-3 weeks farming myth and completing books. Frustrating? Yes. Was it worth it? To me, yes. I can proudly wield my glowy bow knowing I put the effort into it.

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THIS RIGHT HERE.

The grind is annoying, but it makes the end so much sweeter. This was the issue with a lot of MMO's "rewards" vs "back in the day".... the rewards didn't mean anything. This is speaking from a guy who still needs to do 4 more books.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

Skill has nothing to do with drop rate.

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No, but determination does. Having the will to slog through the grind takes determination and from some of the complaining it seems a lot of people don't have that. However there are alternatives so.

We now interrupt the following thread with a random comment.

I like cookies. Espcially if they are chocolate chip cookies made with love.

http://xivpads.com/i/sigs/35954/xivpads.png

It took me one week and 391 FATEs to get my ATMA, mind you I only did FATEs and nothing else while logged in. I'm sure if I did roulette and other in game stuff I will still not have my ATMA. It's not fair for ppl who don't have much time to play, prob why it's taking a lot of ppl 2-4 weeks to complete! It feels good having it! I will be getting my first book after update :)

Also watching a movie or listening to music really helps ease the boredom of the grind. Music was my salvation!

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Originally Posted by Adler

The way Atma work for me:
- join region you need an Atma from and do Fates for 20 min
- if there is no Atma then switch to another job and try another 20 min
- if there is still no Atma go do some dungeons

Got all Atma in couple of weeks doing fates about 30-40 min a day. Noticed that Atma drops for me when I actually do my job well (like having hate of all mobs whole duration of fate as tank or killing mobs super fast as dps). Also noticed from my friends and fc members that they got Atma much faster using jobs they are best at - so if you have multiple jobs with Zenith weapon, try to switch to other.

If you have just 1 job and people in dungeons still often try to give you advice on how to get better (or simply say that you suck) then your Atma grind might tike "a while longer".

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Actually, there is no magic to getting any Atma, it's pure rng. What you do may make you feel better, in which case you trick yourself into thinking it makes a difference, but it doesn't. The director already stated himself it's all luck, nothing else.

Also for those that are obsessed with the "time" aspect of fate grinding, think of this for a second. Let's say you and a friend are both doing atma for 1 hour a day. You BOTH do the same amount of time, but your friend does 10 fates in that hour while you only do 5. Your friend gets his atma faster than you, not because he's "better" at his job, or faced north for fire HQ, or had carby dancing while you scratched your butt, but because he inherently did more in the same amount of time. So instead of thinking of how much time you put into fates, count the fates they took you to get the atma. You'll then realize that you either do a lot less fate grinding than you thought in the amount of time you had, or RNG god hates your guts.

I'm in no means saying the atma system doesn't absolutely suck, and even as an avid grinder, i personally hate the atma portion of the relic and thinks it should be scratched completely, or at least give you more than a different colored relic after taking away your glowing awesomeness that was zenith. There are a hundred ways to make atma more worthwhile, but I also see the reason SE doesn't touch it yet.

For those that still need atma, don't give up. The road is long, annoying, and not in your favor at all, but if you can stomach the crap, it'll be worth it in the long run. Nothing is greater than the sense of accomplishment after you get all 12 and move on to your books. Best of luck to you all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adler

The way Atma work for me:
- join region you need an Atma from and do Fates for 20 min
- if there is no Atma then switch to another job and try another 20 min
- if there is still no Atma go do some dungeons.

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ATMA are not bound to job, you might collect multiples in an area within minutes of each other, or you might not.

i say 30 minutes a zone, with a few near by easily accessible fates, and if nothing, move on to another.

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You BOTH do the same amount of time, but your friend does 10 fates in that hour while you only do 5. Your friend gets his atma faster than you, not because he's "better" at his job, or faced north for fire HQ, or had carby dancing while you scratched your butt, but because he inherently did more in the same amount of time. So instead of thinking of how much time you put into fates, count the fates they took you to get the atma.

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This get repeated alot, but its wrong. RNG is RNG, the amount of fates done do jack all to increase the odds of getting an atma drop.

Solar flares and seismic events are more likely to affect RNG than 'determination'