Mr. Producer... You make me a sad panda :(

Virtually all forms of exp have been nerfed to a ridiculous degree. And I find your letter to us hypocritical at best, quoted directly:

"The Future of Ranking Up
Ever since I posted on the forums, we’ve been receiving feedback from players worrying about whether or not we’re going to be nerfing the ranking up process. The simple and emphatic answer to this, just as I posted in the forums, is no."

Hippocracy at its finest, as you of course did not INCREASE the till next levels, you however lowered the xp received from quests, mobs, behest, and leve's to such a degree that you essentially doubled or tripled the TNL's without actually changing them.

I want to be very straight with you Mr. Producer sir. You cannot make such a progressive move such as adding auto attack in, then take 20 steps backwards by making it so horrible to level up people will quickly lose patience with the game.

I for one doubt I will be playing this game any longer. My friends are attempting to drag me up in the ranks, as soloing only yields 70-120 skill per mob that I can effectively kill... but I don't know if this game is worth the effort. Especially when you continue in your predecessors footsteps and make unwarranted changes that only make the game less desirable to play.

With the economical downturn, and your obvious lack of ability to move this game in the right direction... I do not see much of a future for FF14.

All I can say is...exactly right. I stopped playing this game for months after release because of how terrible it was, then when I saw what 1.18 had in store I started up again thinking they were finally instituting changes drastic enough to improve the gameplay. But no, the auto attack is a disappointment, party search is essentially unusable, and the ranking up is so slow it's unbearable.

Leveling Up took 5-6times longer with the old developing team.
One of the first things that happened with the new team was to double the EXP you got.

Also you are forgetting that we got rid of surplus. Even with surplus people could easily get to Rank 50 within few week.
That can't be the ideal.

It's really astonishing to see how much people tend to whine, if they get something taken away from them.
Even if it makes perfect sense.

Actually the whole point is that it's not even fun. It's become a boring, repetitive, time-costly chore to rank up. Prior to the patch I was getting a decent amount of xp from leve's. Mind you it's still essentially grinding, and it's fairly slow, but it was challenging and quick enough not to be painful. That's not the case anymore; doesn't matter what the old development team did, the fact of the matter is it's just ineffective as it stands now. Not even bringing into the discussion the party search function, which makes everything even more unbearable.

people...people... It's because your playing a game, that is not yet complete... More like a beta. You are all complaining about a lack of content for SP. If you read the old dev. notes and what not, he talks about content we don't have yet for party based play.

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Originally Posted by Jabo

Leveling Up took 5-6times longer with the old developing team.
One of the first things that happened with the new team was to double the EXP you got.

Also you are forgetting that we got rid of surplus. Even with surplus people could easily get to Rank 50 within few week.
That can't be the ideal.

It's really astonishing to see how much people tend to whine, if they get something taken away from them.
Even if it makes perfect sense.

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Moving backwards is not the best idea, especially considering the state the game released in.

And I would like to point out, in this game you cannot simply level one class to 50 and be done. You have to level virtually every class in order to be an effective dd/soloer/tank.

@people leveling quickly before: there were several broken ways that people were able to get xp beforehand, which no doubt you are mistakenly referring to. Such as skill up alliances and leve-link parties pre-nerf. Also the mechanics of ranking up were quite different at launch and were too rng based. The new team did not double the xp, they simply removed the idiotic rng based rank up system.

You really don't bring any valid points to the table, and you end your post with a rude comment which even further degrades it's worth.

Did you forget? You're a test subject. The game isn't 'going backwards' because it's not really released yet. SE see the PS3 release as the official one, until then you're playing a beta.

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Originally Posted by Jabo

Leveling Up took 5-6times longer with the old developing team.
One of the first things that happened with the new team was to double the EXP you got.

Also you are forgetting that we got rid of surplus. Even with surplus people could easily get to Rank 50 within few week.
That can't be the ideal.

It's really astonishing to see how much people tend to whine, if they get something taken away from them.
Even if it makes perfect sense.

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only a few people got kick from Dev or left themself everyone else is still the same people beside the yoshi-p and a few key people in the dev.

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Originally Posted by MookiesPM75

Virtually all forms of exp have been nerfed to a ridiculous degree. And I find your letter to us hypocritical at best, quoted directly:

"The Future of Ranking Up
Ever since I posted on the forums, we’ve been receiving feedback from players worrying about whether or not we’re going to be nerfing the ranking up process. The simple and emphatic answer to this, just as I posted in the forums, is no."

Hippocracy at its finest, as you of course did not INCREASE the till next levels, you however lowered the xp received from quests, mobs, behest, and leve's to such a degree that you essentially doubled or tripled the TNL's without actually changing them.

I want to be very straight with you Mr. Producer sir. You cannot make such a progressive move such as adding auto attack in, then take 20 steps backwards by making it so horrible to level up people will quickly lose patience with the game.

I for one doubt I will be playing this game any longer. My friends are attempting to drag me up in the ranks, as soloing only yields 70-120 skill per mob that I can effectively kill... but I don't know if this game is worth the effort. Especially when you continue in your predecessors footsteps and make unwarranted changes that only make the game less desirable to play.

With the economical downturn, and your obvious lack of ability to move this game in the right direction... I do not see much of a future for FF14.

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You mister are an *****.
The game is great and i love the autoattack.
Those who know how to play a game don't lose any Exp like you claim.
Maybe you should stay at the 5yr old class games.

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Originally Posted by MattyWS

Did you forget? You're a test subject. The game isn't 'going backwards' because it's not really released yet. SE see the PS3 release as the official one, until then you're playing a beta.

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Yea you discovered their evil plan

Immature? Lol im not complaining about a game now am i or putting up "Mr. Producer... You make me a sad panda :(" like a 5 year old that doesnt get a lollypop.
Just play it if you dont like it play something else.. plain and simple issnt it ?

Sounds good to me.

The producer did say (although it was not officially translated as such) that the exp gains may see a short-term drop as the game takes its intended shape. That is exactly what is happening.

Now you can either QQ about this short-term hindrance while the game is being taken to the right direction, or you can quit. Which would be hilarious now that improvements are finally being made. But alas.

You don't need to be a wizard to realize that as the SP is divided between different activities instead of being exclusive to only one, the activity losing the exclusivity status is going to be toned down, while everything else will see improvements in SP gains. Right now that means quests and raids, later on that means stronghold battles, chocobo escorts and hamlet defense battles. These activities replace (or rather, complement) guildleves and the SP is divided among them.

Now, I myself had a preference for all activities having their own unique rewards (which means that when you do decide to level up, its fast, but exclusive to only one activity as the downside) but this will do. "Leveling up" is no longer exclusive to guildleves and behests, and the SP changes reflect this.

Oh yeah, and one can't really ignore the removal of fatigue either. Now that exp bonus will take its place, casuals are going to be the ones suffering from the change. Fatigue hurt hardcore population, exp bonus hurts the casual population.

And the community rejoices, haha.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Sounds good to me.

The producer did say (although it was not officially translated as such) that the exp gains may see a short-term drop as the game takes its intended shape. That is exactly what is happening.

Now you can either QQ about this short-term hindrance while the game is being taken to the right direction, or you can quit. Which would be hilarious now that improvements are finally being made. But alas.

You don't need to be a wizard to realize that as the SP is divided between different activities instead of being exclusive to only one, the activity losing the exclusivity status is going to be toned down, while everything else will see improvements in SP gains. Right now that means quests and raids, later on that means stronghold battles, chocobo escorts and hamlet defense battles. These activities replace (or rather, complement) guildleves and the SP is divided among them.

Now, I myself had a preference for all activities having their own unique rewards (which means that when you do decide to level up, its fast, but exclusive to only one activity as the downside) but this will do. "Leveling up" is no longer exclusive to guildleves and behests, and the SP changes reflect this.

Oh yeah, and one can't really ignore the removal of fatigue either. Now that exp bonus will take its place, casuals are going to be the ones suffering from the change. Fatigue hurt hardcore population, exp bonus hurts the casual population.

And the community rejoices, haha.

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As far as I can tell... He's basically padding the game by forcing you to do all forms of SP gain in order to get the same output you may have gotten from one activity alone rather than letting you choose what you want to do. Not a good thing in my book by any means, as one of the staples of any good MMO is choice. It's ironic and sad one of the headers in his latest letter is "Play how you like." That is clearly not the case in the current state of the game if you want to rank up sometime this year.

Look at it like this: He introduces a game changing mechanic alongside a game breaking nerf. People like me who came back excited about the new changes are completely turned off by the SP gimping. Further degrading our perception of this game ever bearing fruit. This is NOT something he should have done in the current state of the game without properly and fully implementing whatever idea he has for ranking up. He essentially used the introduction of auto-attack and instances as a cushion for a hefty nerf. It was honestly a bad move as he got people to come back only to find out the game is still unplayable.

All of you "hardcore" players may sit there and blindly praise this game to no end. But the cold hard facts are:

1) This game released in such a terrible state that they were forced to make it free to play till it was fixed.
2) It's been a year and there have only been MARGINAL improvements at best.
3) The Producer just spat in the faces of any player that returned upon hearing the introduction of auto-attack by making it virtual torture to rank up.
4) He clearly made a hypocritical move (in the current state of the game) by nerfing ranking up. And it might not have ticked people off as much if he had not made a post talking about how he was not going to nerf ranking up mere HOURS before the patch...
5) Square Enix is not a charity foundation. At the snail's pace the improvements are coming, there is a growing chance that they'll eventually cut their losses. The economy is in the can, I doubt they can afford to continue to bleed off cash developing a MMO that is literally going nowhere.

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Originally Posted by MookiesPM75

As far as I can tell... He's basically padding the game by forcing you to do all forms of SP gain in order to get the same output you may have gotten from one activity alone rather than letting you choose what you want to do. Not a good thing in my book by any means, as one of the staples of any good MMO is choice.

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You never had a choice to begin with, if that's your mindset. Nobody is forcing you to play the game the most effective way. And SE can not force you not to play the game that way.

The only options there are: Either there is one activity that yields the most SP or a combination of activities yields the most SP. There are no magical choices to be had as long as you want to progress most effectively.

People that have not experienced the previous progression system won't even have a problem to begin with.

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Also... I dont understand why the SP normalization took place before the camps/settlements were fully introduced. Could this nerf not have been introduced in patch 1.19 at the same time as the camp quests lessening the negative impact on the perception of this game? Honestly the quests currently available are dependent on level, scarce, and they are OFTEN not worth the effort time/sp wise.

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You could say the same about any addition. Unless you wanted to wait another few months, its not a practical solution, although a very effective one.

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Honestly, look at it like this: He introduces a game changing mechanic alongside a game breaking nerf (that may have future implications but for now it's a nerf). People like me who came back excited about the new changes being made are just being completely turned off by the SP gimping. This is NOT something he should have done, it will hurt the image of the game, and it will further increase the chances that this game falls through the cracks.

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This game is a construction yard. And it will be for some time to come. Now is not a good time to start playing if this bothers you.

They could release everything at once, but they chose not to because it takes too long and the current population is bored. Everything they do has a downside, and someone will be upset. If this time it was you, I'm sorry for that.

At the end of the day the changes are moving this game to the intended direction, and that's all that matters at this point. You can choose to wait until the transformation is complete. You don't need the developers to stall the content until it is fully completed and working just so you have no choice but to sit in the sidelines.

I wont lie. I had fun in the level 25 instance. It gave me hope for the game. However, the content being released is minimal at best. This is as far as I know the biggest content release since release no? What was added before this in the year of "development" we have been in?

And I am NOT talking about bug fixes and tweaks.

600+ ????? FF XI sure have changed >_>
It took me 2 years and a half to reach level 75.

You forgot the reward of quests (not much yet but still) AND REWARD OF LEVES.

Give them time !!! Its just the begining !!

But for me, FF 14 was never about soloing so the solo outcome does not bother me but the group exp is ..... i aggree not cool :(

But they know it and if you want you can create a weel builded feedback (not like this one) to remember them and proposing solution.

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Originally Posted by Liham

600+ ????? FF XI sure have changed >_>
It took me 2 years and a half to reach level 75.

You forgot the reward of quests (not much yet but still) AND REWARD OF LEVES.

Give them time !!! Its just the begining !!

But for me, FF 14 was never about soloing so the solo outcome does not bother me but the group exp is ..... i aggree not cool :(

But they know it and if you want you can create a weel builded feedback (not like this one) to remember them and proposing solution.

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@FF11
Actually you can get up to 1200 xp on chain per mob with the exp rings lol. It doesnt last long but its still pretty cool. Each mob type in abyssea has an xp cap, it varies but most are in the 590-650 range.

@FF14
Honestly... A fair solution would be implementing some sort of exp/sp chaining system like that used in ff11. Obviously not the same exact numbers, but perhaps a percentage based increase that goes up the longer you maintain the chain. I understand there is a party bonus if the members are close in level but it's just not enough after the new changes.

I think it would be more beneificial if you actually went around looking for the ideal mobs to kill as I get 250-300 sp a kill on this certain group of Amaalja @ R40. I'm sure there are decent SP mobs at your Rank as well :)

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Originally Posted by Zahak

I think it would be more beneificial if you actually went around looking for the ideal mobs to kill as I get 250-300 sp a kill on this certain group of Amaalja @ R40. I'm sure there are decent SP mobs at your Rank as well :)

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I agree. I get between 200 and 400. Not slow at all.
You just need to fight monsters a lil higher then yourself :D

People should really stop complaining. The game is good i really enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by MookiesPM75

I wont lie. I had fun in the level 25 instance. It gave me hope for the game. However, the content being released is minimal at best. This is as far as I know the biggest content release since release no? What was added before this in the year of "development" we have been in?

And I am NOT talking about bug fixes and tweaks.

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Speaking as a developer for another company, adding new content during development is relatively easy. You can test everything in a controlled simulation, and you have time to fix game breaking bugs that occur. On the development end, it's quite easy for one seemingly minor change to cause a game breaking bug, too. Once, by changing a single line of code, I completely screwed up the AI in our game, so the enemies just stood around and wouldnt even attack.

Now, on the other hand, releasing a change to a published game, with many players, has other complications. If the change causes one of those game breaking bugs, the players wont be happy. Many players tend to lack the understanding and patience when you take their games away from them. So, far more care and testing is required. This slows things down.

But to implement large scale changes, such as the overhaul to the battle system, introduction of raids, etc... If there is no previous system in place (such as adding in instanced content for the first time), a system has to be developed, and it has to require extensive testing, as above. Additionally, major overhauls have the same issue. Changing something that already works to that extent is hardly any different than adding something completely new. In fact, sometimes when a major overhaul is required, it -is- easier to just throw out the old code and start fresh.

With the changes done now, and the framework set up, it is quite possible we'll start seeing more content at a faster pace.

Story quests and side quests give a good amount of sp. And now there is a pretty decent amount in each city you can lvl that way. Also company quests give decent sp when you complete the quests. So.. if you did all these quests before sucks for you (myself). They added a few more this patch but I wish I could get my 36k or whatever sp from the final story quest!

As I've said before Tanaka said nothing about SP not being effected at all. When I first read it I figured it was based on multiple processes that would be split between patches just as they have. If you would go back and read the letter you will see that they plan on creating bonuses to SP through parties and enemy-linking as well as creating a easier environment to SP with increased mob spawns and spawn rates.

To those that don't like the change: You should probably take a break until everything is done. I understand why people are upset over the change but there has been multiple threads on the exact same topic. You all got your point across, so please just stop flooding the forums with the same crap we've been reading since the release of the patch. It's totally unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by MookiesPM75

All of you "hardcore" players may sit there and blindly praise this game to no end. But the cold hard facts are:

1) This game released in such a terrible state that they were forced to make it free to play till it was fixed.
2) It's been a year and there have only been MARGINAL improvements at best.
3) The Producer just spat in the faces of any player that returned upon hearing the introduction of auto-attack by making it virtual torture to rank up.
4) He clearly made a hypocritical move (in the current state of the game) by nerfing ranking up. And it might not have ticked people off as much if he had not made a post talking about how he was not going to nerf ranking up mere HOURS before the patch...
5) Square Enix is not a charity foundation. At the snail's pace the improvements are coming, there is a growing chance that they'll eventually cut their losses. The economy is in the can, I doubt they can afford to continue to bleed off cash developing a MMO that is literally going nowhere.

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tbh i think after the 1.18 patch its more the hardcore pple thats disgruntled.
Cause they were patient with high hopes and the first major long awaited patch kinda exploded in their face >.>

I started grinding today and it's going pretty well, maybe you should stop relying on leve quest.

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Originally Posted by MattyWS

Did you forget? You're a test subject. The game isn't 'going backwards' because it's not really released yet. SE see the PS3 release as the official one, until then you're playing a beta.

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A BETA that I payed $50 for. I think that gives us atleast SOME right to expect a playable game even though I admit we should not expect overnight to have a perfect game.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

I started grinding today and it's going pretty well, maybe you should stop relying on leve quest.

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the real problem with it, is find a party, shout for hours for pt is really boring, this is not dificult just waste of time

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Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

people...people... It's because your playing a game, that is not yet complete... More like a beta. You are all complaining about a lack of content for SP. If you read the old dev. notes and what not, he talks about content we don't have yet for party based play.

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But this isnt a beta.

I stopped reading this thread halfway through the second page when the ignorance started to hurt my brain.

How many of you who are complaining about EXP actually did ANYTHING at all after the patch besides going out, killing one mob, and then running off to the forums to whine about it?

Before this patch, I was focused on solo grinding for exp. Most of the people I started the game with have given up on it and are no longer around. Leves have been a waste of time for me, as even with Aspect the mobs never give enough exp to justify doing the leve vs faster solo grinding. I don't need any more guild marks, and the gil and gear the leves offer are laughable compared to what I can earn farming, crafting, or even just buying with the millions of gil I currently have no more use for other than to repair my broken gear, which doesn't even hinder me enough to matter. It used to take me WEEKS of grinding on what I would consider midcore-casual gameplay (2-3hrs a day) to gain a level in this manner, and more often than not, I would hit the fatigue barrier before even gaining a single level.

Now after this patch, I've gone from 43-45 in one day. ONE DAY! Firstly, there is no more fatigue. This is a good thing, but hasn't even mattered because I have yet to go back to grinding. Soloing level 40 Levequests at 5 star rank (which is very easily doable in about 3-10min each) has yielded me 100-250 SP per mob kill, with an additional 5,000-7,000 SP upon COMPLETION of the leve. Yes that's right, they give you a reason to want to complete the leve instead of trying to milk it out as long as possible for more exp. Top this off with the fact that quests now give SP on completion, to whatever job you finish the quest as. Average SP reward I've seen from quests has been between 1-3k. I mean hell, just for listening to the Grand Company representative drag you through the company's tutorial of the menu system will net you around 5k SP. Top this off with the fact that story quests now offer SP, and it's much much easier to gain levels. At the time of the update, I had 2 Story Missions remaining, and the one I just completed netted me 39,000 SP.

Bottom line is it's tremendously easier to level than it was before, you just have to branch out and know where to look. Grinding to me is boring as hell, and I was having no fun leveling before this patch. My only motivation was story Quests and those were running out. Now I actually enjoy leveling because it no longer has to be as repetitive. I mean, if you insist on your MMO experience being solely about grinding out a bunch of little numbers to death to become bigger numbers, you could always become an accountant.

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Originally Posted by FuriousCupcakes

I stopped reading this thread halfway through the second page when the ignorance started to hurt my brain.

How many of you who are complaining about EXP actually did ANYTHING at all after the patch besides going out, killing one mob, and then running off to the forums to whine about it?

Before this patch, I was focused on solo grinding for exp. Most of the people I started the game with have given up on it and are no longer around. Leves have been a waste of time for me, as even with Aspect the mobs never give enough exp to justify doing the leve vs faster solo grinding. I don't need any more guild marks, and the gil and gear the leves offer are laughable compared to what I can earn farming, crafting, or even just buying with the millions of gil I currently have no more use for other than to repair my broken gear, which doesn't even hinder me enough to matter. It used to take me WEEKS of grinding on what I would consider midcore-casual gameplay (2-3hrs a day) to gain a level in this manner, and more often than not, I would hit the fatigue barrier before even gaining a single level.

Now after this patch, I've gone from 43-45 in one day. ONE DAY! Firstly, there is no more fatigue. This is a good thing, but hasn't even mattered because I have yet to go back to grinding. Soloing level 40 Levequests at 5 star rank (which is very easily doable in about 3-10min each) has yielded me 100-250 SP per mob kill, with an additional 5,000-7,000 SP upon COMPLETION of the leve. Yes that's right, they give you a reason to want to complete the leve instead of trying to milk it out as long as possible for more exp. Top this off with the fact that quests now give SP on completion, to whatever job you finish the quest as. Average SP reward I've seen from quests has been between 1-3k. I mean hell, just for listening to the Grand Company representative drag you through the company's tutorial of the menu system will net you around 5k SP. Top this off with the fact that story quests now offer SP, and it's much much easier to gain levels. At the time of the update, I had 2 Story Missions remaining, and the one I just completed netted me 39,000 SP.

Bottom line is it's tremendously easier to level than it was before, you just have to branch out and know where to look. Grinding to me is boring as hell, and I was having no fun leveling before this patch. My only motivation was story Quests and those were running out. Now I actually enjoy leveling because it no longer has to be as repetitive. I mean, if you insist on your MMO experience being solely about grinding out a bunch of little numbers to death to become bigger numbers, you could always become an accountant.

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Care to explain how exactly you milk a leve? It was my understanding that the second you killed the last required mob you were done, and the guardian's aspect only worked on leve mobs... so...

Also quests give garbage SP in relation to the time spent doing them. The ONLY reason to do quests is for fun/money/items.

Story missions are not repeatable, they're a one shot deal for high SP. So your 43-45 in one day brag is not that impressive dude. Especially if you were doing storyline quests.

Come back when you have to grind a job to 50 doing nothing but killing the same mobs over and over and over and over and over and over. Then you'll realize that Yoshi taking out our choice of what we want to xp on was severely detrimental to this failing game.

Sounds to me like you're the ignorant one if you cannot even attempt to see the other side of the argument.