Skill-Specific Gear

Yoshi was asked about having gear that boosted specific skills (e.g. an individual ability lasts longer or is stronger with this gear attached) rather than relying on main stats we currently get from gear.

His response at the time was that he felt groups would require their members to have all the related gear before trying harder content (or something to that effect) so he wasn't sure.

However today during the E3 Chan event it came out as:

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Although the idea of introducing gears with skill-specific stats is enticing, a lot of thought and planning would need to go into it first to ensure balance is maintained.

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http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...short_summary/

This sounds more like he's willing to try it out with some planning rather than abandoning the idea. Although the idea of skill-specific gear sounds great, two potential problems come to mind:

1. We can't swap gear during battle, so we'd want the gear we wear to have all of the skill-specific gear + main stats. (You'd end up seeing lots of description for a piece of gear if it listed every main stat + list of skill boosts)

2. If the system was changed so we could swap gear/stat types, this would (probably) cause inventory issues.

Can anyone think of a way to provide skill-specific gear without requiring multiple gear sets/inventory issues? Not sure if this has been suggested before but why not try using "adaptive materia slots" where the skill-specific bonuses come directly from materia and can be equipped / unequipped on those slots. (sort of like how FF7 handles materia to gear).

sounds like another "no" to refreshing changes - surprise. I have no clue where you can see that they are not abandoning the idea?
It's just their polite way to say it, but it's far away from a yes, we are looking into it.
(and even looking into it is like a chance of 10% that it happens or less).

Skill enhancing materia over skill enhancing gear.

Though obviously there has to be a way to make sure players understand where that materia goes and can be solved by being categorized as the following.

B: Body (defensive skills) Example. (Featherfoot, Keenflurry, Bulwark, etc)
F: Feet (movement skills) Example. (Shoulder Tackle, Elusive and Spineshatter Jump, Repelling Shot, etc)
G: Gloves (buffing skills) Example. (Blood for Blood, Raging Strikes, Internal Release, Bloodbath, etc)
H: Head (utility skills) Example. (Fluid Aura, Sleep, Freeze, Repelling shot, Tri-disaster, Leg Sweep, Brutal Swing, etc)
S: Shield (Mitigation skills) Example. (Manawall, Stoneskin, Rampart, etc)
W: Weapon (Damage skills) Example. (Combo finishers and job damaging abilities)

Should be easier to manage, balance, and look over than gear that's ever changing.

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Originally Posted by Anty

sounds like another "no" to refreshing changes - surprise. I have no clue where you can see that they are not abandoning the idea?
It's just their polite way to say it, but it's far away from a yes, we are looking into it.
(and even looking into it is like a chance of 10% that it happens or less).

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It's been a while since I saw the english translation, I think he acknowledged it was a request from the community but he didn't make his response clear enough to deny implementing it. Whether it's polite to say "We're not sure" when he wants to say "No" I'm simply not aware. Perhap you're right. Assuming he does consider it though, what would you say to how it's implemented?

A system like FFXI's would never work here.
Something like WoW's tiers set bonus could work instead. Not necessarily bound to a set bonus, but a similar concept.
Each job gets a specific bonus from the current "best" tier. Once a new tier is released, new bonus arrive.

As long as this remain something small that isn't too game changing, I could see it working.
But something like FFXI... meh, as cool as it would be, it would never work in a game structured this way.

the trouble with piece of armor giving skill boost, will make the piece mandatory and will often be choose over a piece that give more stats.
but maybe we will see set bonus later.

One of my biggest gripes with this game is this reluctance to add interesting stats to gear. It's SOOOOOOO boring to upgrade your gear when all it offers is a boost to the main stat. Many games, including Diablo, WoW and TESO use a system where each piece of a set adds boosts to certain skills or adds new ones. This is such a cool system since it encourages you to get the rest of the set, either for the abilities or for vanity. Why can't we get something like this?

EDIT: Already mentioned while I was typing

Something has to be done about gear, this dull, boring main statfest is really getting old

How about instead of skill specific gear which would get replaced, how about Skill Specific Materia that can be bound to any gear? <.< Just make it so each gear can only have 1 of these materia bound to it.

Specific stats are a good thing, and it should be bound to gear, stats bound to gear means more gear choices, less importance to gear tiers and more content to obtain certain gear, i don't mind having to change gears before a battle, the system is too mindless as it is now. having to chose the right gear before a battle adds more deep and strategy.

Also Yoshi said they want to implement it w/o affecting the balance, so i don't think it'll be mandatory in any way.

Your potential problems are just laziness, not real issues.

A combination of minor modifications on certain pieces of weapons and armor, and a customization system utilizing skill-enhancing materia would be a fine idea.

Yoshida said he feared that skill enhancements on equipment would take away player choices in gearing.

Yoshi P, I love you forever, but sir, what choices?

i70: Crafted, Darklight, Darklight Equivalent in Expert
i80: CT gear
i90: Myth, Allagan, Crafted
i100: Weathered Soldiery
i110: Soldiery +1, High Allagan

That is it.

We are not awash in choices, and we are not awash in gear, either. A group farming up to turn 08 will generate six 110s a week among eight players, plus the Oils. Can farm one accessory from Soldiery a week, or most of (but not all of) an i100 primary armor a week.

We do not have a five-star restaurant menu of choices going for us here. Dev Team fears boxing themselves in, but they need to remember two big things:

#1: They are bound only by imagination. This game is their oyster. They can take any crazy number of ideas from these forums, BG, or hell, reddit, or dream up their own. They need not make the modifications excessive or game-breaking, merely interesting. Situational. Remember when stuff was situational? I do. I loved that. o.0

#2: Taking the OP's first concern up, so what if a particular piece of, say, 150 gear is slightly outstripped by a 140 with Brutal Swing: Stun Duration +1s in someone's view? If it is worth it to them, let 'em do what they want. People do this already, utilizing i90 crafted gear to load up on secondaries and using that gear in Coils instead of certain 100s, or even some 110s (though in my opinion, ya gotta be crazy to skip a 110 for crafted breadth of secondaries.) Player choice is not a bad thing, and Spineshatter Dive: potency+50 is not going to annihilate all balance in the game. We already have folks sequence-breaking Coils simply by piling on the damage faster than Dev Team imagined they would, or solo healing turn 9. C'mon.

I like the idea of set bonuses like other games do but it leads to a case where the gear with the set bonus is the best no question and it leaves all other drops of the same tier deemed useless even if they have better itemisation.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

what choices?

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stat specific choices you aim for.

Det
Crit
Speed
Balance
Hybrid

It's not amazing choices but they are there. Skill enhancing would be more enticing but the balance around it isn't simple especially if it's on gear since it gets constantly replaced.

They have already done set bonuses with lower level GC gear, and with the sanction granting and sanction item (again GC lower level gear and item). But yes, only affects main stats.

Maybe with the expansion (or sooner though doubtful) they could add such a thing (item or whatnot) that boosts job specific actions? Could still tie it in with GC to keep that theme going, but make it a tank/DPS/healer enhancement item, boosting tank/DPS/healer abilities (shorter CDs, stronger effects, more potent attacks, etc). But specifically affecting skills as opposed to stats (or really it would just be another fancy item aside from but no different than food).

They could make skill-speficic gear that can be converted into skill-specific materia - to be infused in your relic weapon, if they worry everybody will have all of them at some point, although I don't mind, plenty of ways to restrict it.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

stat specific choices you aim for.

Det
Crit
Speed
Balance
Hybrid

It's not amazing choices but they are there. Skill enhancing would be more enticing but the balance around it isn't simple especially if it's on gear since it gets constantly replaced.

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Again, what choices?

No, seriously, there are specific builds that are the best for each class already, they were extrapolated and posted literally three hours after 2.2 went live. This point you bring up is further diminished by the existence of that new rotation simulator now available on the internet, with adjustable parameters producing thousands of averaged results of that particular rotation with varying stat sets in seconds, so that the player may optimize even faster. We cannot pretend that there are not BIS or Best Builds.

Additionally, your point about gear constantly being replaced actually cuts down the thrust of your post, which is that further itemization may be game-breaking - how is it game-breaking if it is swiftly replaced? (Also, aren't Balance and Hybrid the same thing?)

There will always be The Best™. Using this as reason to avoid further customization of the stat system is a disservice to everyone involved.

Look at it another way: every piece of gear looks the same. Nothing is unique. Nothing makes you raise an eyebrow and go o.ô {hmmm.} In 2.3, there will be new gear with... lower numbers of the same stats that are on every other piece of gear. Nothing unique. Nothing role-enhancing. Nothing that makes you say "in this situation, I could..."

Nothing that makes a piece of equipment, skill, or a player stand out. We are totally and completely homogenized. o_O This is not a good thing.

With no skill trees and no builds to pursue, there's nothing there to interest people.

None said set bonuses in the live letter, the question was about specific stats, not set bonuses, you need to have this clear before making assumptions.

This topic requires additional exposition.

For what reason are relics at i80 purple? Can anyone tell me?

A weapon released down the road for crafting at i80 will have the same DMG rating as an i80 relic, and it will have the same statistic caps... the crafted will actually be a little better, because it will have materia slots that the purple i80 does not.

So, a white i80 will be superior to a purple i80. Likewise, blue and purple i100s are the very same thing. What point, the pretense of difference or rarity?

Typically, colored icons are used to denote an item of superior quality, with greater stats, special effects, or just generally boosted damage. None of that exists in XIV right now. Six months from now, when expansion is released and I am crafting 110 HQs to toss on the market boards, I will chuckle looking at how a white crafted HQ is actually exactly the same as a "rare" blue or purple 110.

It's kind of silly when you stop and think about it. O.o Not that I want crafted items to be pointless - so don't misunderstand that point, please and thanks - but that I am saying there is no effective difference between 'levels of rarity'.

An item with a level of rarity marked on it ought to exceed a standard item of that level. Nothing else makes sense. How far, how much? Up to Dev Team's interpretation, but the way things stand right now is completely nonsensical.

By golly, if you're going to make an item purple and shiny, let it be worth the purple and shiny.

And while you're at it, toss some rare materials into the next tier of Binding Coil, so I can try my hand at crafting a rare and shiny blue item.

So, what, tier set bonuses?

I'd be cool with that, actually. We need some more customization in this game, even if it's just illusion of choice.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

Yoshida said he feared that skill enhancements on equipment would take away player choices in gearing.

Yoshi P, I love you forever, but sir, what choices?

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You're misunderstanding the meaning of choice here.


When you offer a greater variety of effects of choices, it's inevitable that certain ones outstrip others. Consider just for a moment that we're talking about support skills, because in a way, they're equippable. Say every class was only afforded one. What would happen to a Marauder that didn't take Provoke? How would developpers handle the existance of Warriors without Provoke? Do you create content that never involves Tank Swaps, or do you still go ahead with it on the assumption they will have that?

Obviously, gear isn't as significant in terms of its effects - but let's face it, unless it is really significant, it won't satisfy the crowd who're hoping for it. Otherwise it falls into the "tiny number tweaking for min-maxing", which is what we already have. The more variety of significant choice you give players, the more that certain choices prove superior to others; to continue responding to those stronger existances, you end up having to design challenges around that, which means players who don't make that choice lose out. You don't actually get real choice - you get a right choice and a wrong choice. You don't have three choices for iLvl 90 body armor - you have one right choice, and two wrong ones. Nevermind if those three are things like "Water Resist +40" which you'll want for Leviathan EX and another is "Paralysis Null" which you'll want to ease up ADS nonsense, and another is "+15% HP recovered" which you want on for everything else - now you don't have a choice between all three iLvl 90 pieces, you need to get them all. I'm being a bit extreme, but you understand the risks, right?

Players already hate the effects that we do have because they "don't feel significant" - which is a completely fair assesment - but so long as they aren't significant, it really doesn't matter which of the iLvl 90 pieces you use unless you are really, really interested in getting that 5 extra DPS. That's a margin that can be balanced around.

So there's three levels you end up at now:

1. It's all basically the same - the differences are functionally so tiny that the balance doesn't really change much, overall power remains constant and expectable. (We are here)
2. Flavour differences - You have a whole lot of different tasting flavours, but realistically, they're such minor changes you wouldn't ever really notice. There's a lot more variety here, and I think people might overall be happier here, but you still don't have real meaningful variety. (We should probably be here, and I think this is what Yoshida is willing to start looking into based on his answer)
3. Significant differences - What I think a lot of people would like to see, but it runs huge risks of False Choice, forcing players to acquire and carry assloads of situational equipment, being extremely difficult to create content around, and other problems. (Yoshida doesn't want to be here, and going here would be a pretty significant philosophy change for XIV).

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

You're misunderstanding the meaning of choice here.
~snip~

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Because

(A. this is done properly in plenty of other games, by other developers, and I know that XIV Dev Team can do it,
(B. we are talking about skill modifications, not skill additions,
(C. skill additions could also be done if the skills are created in the proper fashion,
(D. by your own admission, this is already occuring, so your argument against further itemization is made moot by your own reasoning,
(E. sating the playerbase with things to build towards / specialities to pursue and spend time upon is not only a good idea to keep their players contented, but it is in fact the way they generate income, and
(F. people are always going to complain. Always. Does not delegitimize the argument for improved itemization.

As a total aside, your argument, and its preface, are total non sequiturs in relation to one another. The body of the text is prefaced with "misunderstanding the meaning of choice", and then proceeds into making the argument that there is no choice at all, which, while appreciated (as it strengthens my case), does not relate to how I am misunderstanding the meaning of "choice". The post is self-contradictory on the whole.

1.0 af gear had bonuses to job skills and a lot of those bonuses were too good to give up for more stats. I think that's what he's referring to when he says keeping them balanced.

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Originally Posted by Naelle

1.0 af gear had bonuses to job skills and a lot of those bonuses were too good to give up for more stats. I think that's what he's referring to when he says keeping them balanced.

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Not asserted in that post. What was asserted was that specific choices in skill enhancements would become staples over others, an entirely valid, but different point.

It is then incumbent upon Dev Team to offer good choices to the players. Additionally, the stat system in 1.x was completely different from what we have now, and even doubling the potency of Dragonfire Dive would be not particularly game-breaking, as it is on a three minute recast. An addition of 240 potency over the span of three minutes is... very minor, in the grand scheme of things. Maybe awesome for speed runs for Mythos, elsewise just a fun little tidbit.

o.0 Still not furthering the case against improved itemization.

NO to improve the skills using gear... I'm already tired of gear progression...

YES to this idea: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ills-or-traits.

(I thought I alread put this message here... Maybe got deleted or just got an error when puting it?... Uh, anyways)

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Originally Posted by Adrian74

NO to improve the skills using gear... I'm already tired of gear progression...

YES to this idea: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ills-or-traits.

(I thought I alread put this message here... Maybe got deleted or just got an error when puting it?... Uh, anyways)

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Why must they be mutually exclusive? O_o

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

Skill enhancing materia over skill enhancing gear.

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This was my first thought while watching it on Tuesday. Although would that mean that people would still be forced/required then to get crafted gear? Perhaps some of the coil/tome gear could have these stats and make them materia enhanced also so you can go either way.

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Originally Posted by Adrian74

NO to improve the skills using gear... I'm already tired of gear progression...

YES to this idea: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ills-or-traits.

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NO to this idea

YES to this idea: Leave it as it is

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The text that you have entered is too long (6217 characters). Please shorten it to 1000 characters long.

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goddamnit me

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

(A. this is done properly in plenty of other games, by other developers, and I know that XIV Dev Team can do it,

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I'll say this again later on, but XIV is a very controlled game. It is not the open ended sandbox of many other MMORPGs.

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(D. by your own admission, this is already occuring, so your argument against further itemization is made moot by your own reasoning,

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Not really. There's still cleanup to do on XIV's system. It isn't perfectly in line with its own philosophy of design - extremely few games are. I've got another note about elemental materia below that illustrates this. This doesn't mean that those are the routes that the designers necessarily want to pursue, and evidence and the logic of Yoshida himself supports that.

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(E. sating the playerbase with things to build towards / specialities to pursue and spend time upon is not only a good idea to keep their players contented, but it is in fact the way they generate income, and

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If the disposal of elemental skills and the near-disposal of elemental defenses is any indication, this is not the direction the XIV team has gone, or wants to go. What we have is an absolutely minimal amount of tweaking. They want to avoid situations where a player is useless due to a false choice - having grabbed the wrong piece of equipment, being the wrong class, picking the wrong one of x identical skills for a fight, etc. It has probably been taken a little far, and feels dry and unsatisfying as a result, but you didn't need to farm up five otherwise identical weapons to fight each EX Primal with a proper elemental advantage. That's what other MMOs have done, and XIV has said no to that. XIV does not want to put that burden on their players.

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(B. we are talking about skill modifications, not skill additions,
(F. people are always going to complain. Always. Does not delegitimize the argument for improved itemization.

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I'm aware, and yes, apologies on my part a bit for F for the brief time it was even part of the post. Speaking of, you might want to review the post now that I've got it all down. The fear on Yoshida's part - and understandably so - is that the complaints will turn from "eh, this is a little boring" to a far more serious issue where it is wreaking havoc on the actual playability of the game.

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(C. skill additions could also be done if the skills are created in the proper fashion,

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That is a balancing nightmare and I don't think you even realise it. Either the skill is an improvement or a new niche, in which case an expectation grows that the players of a class will have it, and the game has to be created around that in turn, and it butts out other options - or the skill is so negligible that in practice it doesn't actually matter. We already can demonstrate this with cross-classing as it currently exists. There is content expecting that Warriors have Provoke. And there is absolutely nothing that expects a Warrior to use Savage Blade. Savage Blade is new, and shiny, but functionally useless on a Warrior, and taking up the spot of something that could be used. Start having gear give skills and this is where you are.

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As a total aside, your argument, and its preface, are total non sequiturs in relation to one another. The body of the text is prefaced with "misunderstanding the meaning of choice", and then proceeds into making the argument that there is no choice at all, which, while appreciated (as it strengthens my case), does not relate to how I am misunderstanding the meaning of "choice". The post is self-contradictory on the whole.

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No, it's entirely linear. I guess, lemme take another shot at this though.

Yoshida recognises false choice - and that it isn't a choice. When people ask for significant gear differences, believing that it creates choice, Yoshida recognises that when you get too significant, you don't create choice - you lock players into needing very specific gear or gtfo in practice, and thus take away the choice. That's what Yoshida doesn't want to get into. A core aspect of XIV's design to this point has been making an effort to avoid forcing people into false choice situations. There's no elemental wheel because five identical spells, only one of which is actually effective, isn't actually choice, it's a question of right or wrong. They've done their best to try not to force "must have x class or gtfo", and the opposite. They've taken, to this point, a very similar avoidance with gear*

* I'm aware we do still have elemental resistance stuff that contradicts this, especially as it was turned functionally useless. I think in this case it's largely a holdover of 1.0 that they didn't want to get rid of to have players complaining about lost goods and aren't yet sure if they want to try to make these relevant again or just find a good plan to phase them out.

This isn't to say the system's perfect (again, review the post). What Yoshida said in the letter indicates that he's fully aware he's been quite conservative in just how much variance can exist on gear, with the intent of avoiding the situation he worries about - the point at which the illusion of choice in gear becomes not a choice at all. It also indicates they're going to look into seeing if they can introduce more variables without disrupting the system, becuase that would feel better - but everything you introduce is another thing to watch. XIV is a very controlled MMORPG by design, not a character development sandbox.

Right now, we at least have the choice between whether we get our level 90 gear from Myth tomes, or Coil, or EX Primals. It may not feel great, but it's something - and it's more than the scenario he wants to avoid where we either need to get all three to be relevant to different things later, or need to get one specific one because something about it in practice obsoletes the others.

And again, I'm not against more variety in gear effects, and things like minor potency bonuses to skills may very well be the way to go. It CAN be done, and I, like you, want to see it happen. But understand where Yoshida's coming from when he says that highly significant variety - the kind players often request - could very well damage choice, and that's what he wants to avoid. His answer indicates that he's aware they've been too conservative about it and are probably going to experiment and see what they can do.

EDIT: I feel like I near-literally repeated myself like three separate times during this @_@

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Originally Posted by Barboron

This was my first thought while watching it on Tuesday. Although would that mean that people would still be forced/required then to get crafted gear? Perhaps some of the coil/tome gear could have these stats and make them materia enhanced also so you can go either way.

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Well I agree there should be options. It shouldn't be gated behind just Crafters and AH since that wouldn't be fair.

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Although the idea of introducing gears with skill-specific stats is enticing, a lot of thought and planning would need to go into it first to ensure balance is maintained.

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He said this as well during the English live letter; I was annotating the letter for my friends who couldn't watch it and I remember this as being part of the answer he gave.

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Originally Posted by Nahara

He said this as well during the English live letter; I was annotating the letter for my friends who couldn't watch it and I remember this as being part of the answer he gave.

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Thanks for digging up the quote.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

No, it's entirely linear. I guess, lemme take another shot at this though.
EDIT: I feel like I near-literally repeated myself like three separate times during this @_@

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And it is precisely because of the tightly-controlled environment that Dev Team is now doing a bit of backpedaling and saying "okay, so we're going to look at this."

Basically, if the Devs cannot think of a way to provide varied skill conditioning and tuning in their battle system, they are simply not spending enough time on it. Yes, I say this as an armchair general. I've played many MMOs. Balance was always difficult, and required tuning and re-tuning, and more re-tuning. Balance was never fully achieved, but neither was the attempt at diversification completely abandoned. Dev Team may be coming around on this, and I do hope so, because, at the end of the day, the stuff they have given out already simply isn't enough to keep the hardcore people at it. O.o Subs will come in waves with primary patches, and that's a danger that Yoshida has already remarked upon as well.

With regards to Coil Gear, it is largely unobtainable by the playerbase, so the illusion of choice, false or not, is even further dispelled. o_O The way Coil is structured prevents people from helping their friends along with it, unless they are part of a regular crew going once per week. The entry limitations mean that lots of people, a solid half-dozen from my own small LS, simply quit because they are weary of attempting to get through Coil with bickering, back-biting pickups. I realize that your point here is that the Coil gear is largely unimportant, because the choice is, again, minute in scope, but it is there. It's something. It is insufficient, but it is a start; a start that is screwed over by entry limitations, which is an (unrelated) social issue as well. @_@ So lacking Coil gear, having only Soldiery to do for the week, and (fairly or not) lots of people turning their nose up at Atma farming (which, honestly, I do not think is that bad - having spent many hours at it myself, make no mistake) the playerbase goes o.o "Eh. I'll be back for the next story missions, I guess" and books it.

They can't even work at spendy, high-end crafted stuff, because the crafted stuff is kept weak. o_O Also, there was not a single weapon for i90 in the "New Crafting Recipes." Yeah, thanks, Dev Team, I leveled Blacksmith so I could craft retainer bells. That is exactly what I had in mind when you showed me the shiny smithy, full of giant furnaces and smelted ingots, and spoke of crafting exquisite weapons. Unless I get to take that damn retainer bell into battle, I'm going to have to write this one down as poppycock.

...My little trip through the Valley of Embitterment aside, the situation with itemization is untenable. >.> Heavy-handed supervision is an understandable instinct, but as .38 Special once remarked, "if you cling too tightly, you're gonna lose control."

Also, the removal of the elemental wheel was the single most annoying thing Yoshida's ever done. O_o Now I must gnaw my desk in anger at the bitter memory.

I'm scarred for life from FF11 skill based bonuses.

Pick SMN, get your endgame gear bonuses as "Enhanced cures", "MAB", "Conserve MP", "Fast cast". Not to mention the best classic of -BP timer (btw we cap you at -15 (25%), while we cap haste at 60% cutoff).

I'd consider balance restored if they added some PLD and WAR and WHM armors with "Enhanced carbuncle power" or something else ridiculous.

Tell me something Garlyle (and other ppl against specialized stats) this is what the playerbase want, they have feedback, it has been asked, and Yoshi said they will implement it keeping the balance, yes it may be useless, but it adds more fun and customization, even if it's an illusion, the only reason i see to reject it is to avoid thinking which piece or gear is better, in other words, only players who want to play the hallway game and be always railed safety rejects this system.

The actual system is destined to change, because there are no epic pieces of gear, there's no emotion, most ppl ignores coil, not because it's hard, it's just not worth the effort, put a piece with an awesome specific stat, and even if it doesn't make any big difference the players will want it, because that's what attracts the playersbase, not a different stat nor a higher number.

We are giving feedback and asking for changes to improve the game because it's not perfect, and a gear system based on pure stats, it's a poor, bad and lazy design, and the "balance" is just a excuse.

Also, I still want to scream from the rooftops that there needs to be a damned reason for gear to have rarity labels.

I mean, really.

C'MON NOW!

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Originally Posted by Renik

Tell me something Garlyle (and other ppl against specialized stats)

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Where'd you get the idea I was against it, because I specifically went out of my way at the end of both posts to say I want to see more done with it, and would be happier even if (maybe especially if) it wasn't actually significant, because yes, it does 'feel' better and more interesting. I just, at the end of the day, agree with Yoshida's decision that this shouldn't come at the penalty of overwhelming players with false choice.

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Because, at the end of the day, the stuff they have given out already simply isn't enough to keep the hardcore people at it.

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The matter of coil damaging player interest and the lack of variety in endgame content is a somewhat different discussion than the potential impacts of gear. If anything, it's kind of a point - it's already enough of a frustration point for the playerbase that the highest tier of gear is Coil-locked. Imagine if, in the long run, you still had to do it because unique effects on it were just too good to ignore even when we hit 2.4 and another 20 item levels of content are added. I can't speak for others, but personally, I'd find that situation irritating, and I enjoy the challenge of coil.

But that's my stance. Live letter's up, I've been going too long here.

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Originally Posted by Renik

Your potential problems are just laziness, not real issues.

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- The large description issue is probably not that major but is more of a system display one, rather than a user not bothering to read one.

- The inventory issue is actually very much a possibility and is actually caused not from being lazy but rather the opposite. Players would actually have to go out of their way to have a full deck of gear/items to accommodate for each situational battle.

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Originally Posted by NovaUltimatum

- The large description issue is probably not that major but is more of a system display one, rather than a user not bothering to read one.

- The inventory issue is actually very much a possibility and is actually caused not from being lazy but rather the opposite. Players would actually have to go out of their way to have a full deck of gear/items to accommodate for each situational battle.

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Yeah and that's what we had to do in previous MMOs, QoL is important but we are getting it to an extreme to the point you're asking for more inventory so you don't have to go back to your home to change your inventory, this may seem normal to you, but these small details will turn this game into an arcade with a big lobby.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Where'd you get the idea I was against it, because I specifically went out of my way at the end of both posts to say I want to see more done with it, and would be happier even if (maybe especially if) it wasn't actually significant, because yes, it does 'feel' better and more interesting. I just, at the end of the day, agree with Yoshida's decision that this shouldn't come at the penalty of overwhelming players with false choice.

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Yeah sorry i was reading too fast, wanted to watch the LL, and Yoshi may be right, but in the end it's just another excuse. It will only be a false choice if they make it that way.

Let's say they make a stat that is "shield bash +10" the meaning of that +10 is 1 more second of stun(i assume you know how it works, 4>3>2>1>resist, this would add 1s to every hit with a cap of +15=1.5s), it will be a minor advantage but a skilled pld could use that second to cast a SS or stop a boss after losing hate, or may save his life giving the healer a chance to heal him.

It's just a second, but it can be useful w/o being gamebreaking, and none will expect every pld to have this, and more important i'll fell good.

There was an idea on these fourms awhile back, it was something along the lines of having the trait's on armors (such as Enhances fists of wind or whatever) , and allowing you to spiritbond it (or maybe some other kind of bar) once you did that you could "learn" the trait. and using a menu you'd be able to set a certain number of traits on your character. (i think they also said something about certain traits having different costs and you could not exceed a certain amount.)

Sort of like a Trait version of how BLU worked in XI i guess, though it was inspired by FFIX.

I personally enjoyed the general concept though it could probably use some tweaking and whatnot.