Are there plans to make Classes more viable?

Hey all!

I have a simple question and a smaller but related question.

Are there plans to make classes more viable?

Are there plans to make more cross class skills or buff current ones to feel worth losing the 5 Job skills?

Here is a list of cross class skills. You will notice most of these are pretty pointless. I will highlight them in red. The not so bad skills I will highlight in pink. Credit to Foreaux Albatross

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ARCHER (ARC)

Lvl 2. Straight Shot- Damage and Crit Rate +10%. Melee Only. Only semi crap because of duration
Lvl 3. Raging Strikes- Damage + 20% (including DoT) ALL CLASSES
Lvl 6. Venomous Bite- Powerful DoT with short duration. Melee Only.
Lvl 26. Hawk's Eye- Dex + 15%, Attacks never miss. ALL CLASSES
Lvl 34. Quelling Strikes- Reduces Emnity Gain. ALL CLASSES.


GLADIATOR (GLD)

Lvl 4. Savage Blade- Damage and Increases Emnity. Melee Only.
Lvl 8. Flash- AoE Emnity Gain. Uses MP. ALL CLASSES. Only good for tanks
Lvl 10. Convalescence- Increases all healing by 20%. ALL CLASSES. Only useful if tanking and you have a healer
Lvl 22. Provoke- Steals highest Emnity level. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 34. Awareness- Decreases odds of suffering a crit 25%. ALL CLASSES. Only good for tanks or PVP


LANCER (LNC)

Lvl 2. Feint- Damage + Slow. All Melee.
Lvl 6. Keen Flurry- Parry Rate + 50%. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 8. Impulse Drive- 180 Potency attack only from behind. All Melee.
Lvl 22. Invigorate- Restores 300 TP. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 34. Blood For Blood- 20% dmg buff but with 25% Dmg Gained. ALL CLASSES.


MARAUDER (MRD)

lvl 2. Foresight- Def + 20% Buff. ALL CLASSES. Pretty bad for everyone. Even tanks.
Lvl 4. Skull Sunder- Damage and increase Emnity. All Melee.
Lvl 6. Fracture- A standard DoT skill. All Melee.
Lvl 8. Bloodbath- All Melee have HP Drain effect. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 26. Mercy Stroke- High-Damage move that heals on a kill. ALL CLASSES.


PUGILIST (PUG)

Lvl 4. Featherfoot- Evade + 15%. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 8. Second Wind. Non-magic Instant Self-Heal. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 10. Haymaker- Slow + Attack useable after a dodge. All Melee.
Lvl 12. Internal Release- Crit Rate + 10%. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 42. Mantra- Cure Magic + 5% AoE. ALL CLASSES. 5% is just SOOO LOW!!!

~~~ M A G I C ~~~

CONJURER (CNJ)

Lvl 2. Cure- Basic Heal Spell. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 3. Aero- Elemental DoT. All Mages.
Lvl 8. Protect - Defense Buff to party. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 12. Revive- Allows Revive outside of battle. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 34. StoneSkin- Def Buff that acts like Overheal. ALL CLASSES.


THAMATURGE (THM)

Lvl 8. Surecast.- Guarantees an uninterrupted cast. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 12. Blizzard II- Low damage AoE that causes Bind. All Mages.
Lvl 26. Swiftcast.- Allows for a single insta-cast. ALL CLASSES.


ARCANIST (ARC)-

Lvl 1. Ruin. Useless Damage Skill. NOBODY.
Lvl 4. Physick. Cure with a different animation. ALL CLASSES.
Lvl 12. Virus- STR and DEX Debuff. ALL CLASSES. huge nerf with the debuff so its a lot less useful
Lvl 34. Eye For an Eye- Single Person Buff that causes dmg debuffs when attacked. ALL CLASSES.

Well... You are kinda supposed to use the job once you unlocked them...
Classes are fine for the open world but in instance, it'll put you into heavy disadvantage, the most obvious one being the max hp and skills. ^^'

you go to class so you can get a job, do you want to be a student the rest of your life?

the OP's question is more along the lines of FFXI where the Basic Jobs where still Viable at end game, along with the Advanced Jobs.

Where in FFXIV once you unlock a Job, the class petty much become obsolete.

I just feel that players could feel more unique and content would stop being wasted if Classes were better and usable.

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Originally Posted by Valmar

the OP's question is more along the lines of FFXI where the Basic Jobs where still Viable at end game, along with the Advanced Jobs.

Where in FFXIV once you unlock a Job, the class petty much become obsolete.

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Pretty much what I said.

Trayes,
It is indeed too bad, especially for the upcoming rogue / ninja, rogue seems nice but I never liked ninja :/

I remember being told that Classes were versatile and Jobs were specialized. They would both have a place. Turns out Jobs are 90% of the time more versatile and more specialized.

I updated the post with colors.

That is what I am wondering, how the new classes will benefit the game.

Classes were meant for another system, the original system had the freedom to use almost any skill from otger classes to make a pseudo jobs, marauder could be played as Drk if you equiped thm spells and dmg buff skills from several classes or play a RDM as gladiator with conjurer and thm spells, the system in ARR is too different to even think they can make classes viable again just think of them as a base for all jobs

You know, before the new class was announced this was never a hot issue. Now all of a sudden the sky is falling down. It's very very simple jobs only supplement classes, that's it.
BRD adds 3 songs and one AoE arrow attack
DRG adds jumps
PLD / MRD adds tanking abilities

Here is the deal, 1.0 had classes where the idea was to make your own job by mixing and matching different abilities. To make a thief you would us steal from PUG, Feint from LNC, Dagger from GLD, and so on. It didn't work so Yoshi-P and the team salvages the broken system by adding jobs to give said classes more defined roles just as the community asked for.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

Lvl 3. Raging Strikes- Damage + 20% (including DoT) ALL CLASSES

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BLM definitely uses this, or should.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

Lvl 10. Convalescence- Increases all healing by 20%. ALL CLASSES. Only useful if tanking and you have a healer

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Not true. Do you have ANY idea how useful getting 20% increase in healing is?

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Originally Posted by Trayes

Lvl 8. Impulse Drive- 180 Potency attack only from behind. All Melee.

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This one is insanely useful on Monk. The majority of Monk attacks are strike from behind. I can usually proc 7XX-8XX on Titan EX with this.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

lvl 2. Foresight- Def + 20% Buff. ALL CLASSES. Pretty bad for everyone. Even tanks.

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Oh, hi Twintania.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

Lvl 6. Fracture- A standard DoT skill. All Melee.

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Dem DoTs tho…

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Originally Posted by Trayes

Lvl 42. Mantra- Cure Magic + 5% AoE. ALL CLASSES. 5% is just SOOO LOW!!!

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Have you actually READ the notes? 5% on ALL OTHER classes, 20% when a MONK uses it.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

Lvl 8. Protect - Defense Buff to party. ALL CLASSES.

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Nope. Try telling a Warrior to cast Protect. See what he thinks.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

Lvl 34. StoneSkin- Def Buff that acts like Overheal. ALL CLASSES.

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See above.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

Lvl 8. Flash- AoE Emnity Gain. Uses MP. ALL CLASSES. Only good for tanks

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Ahahahahaha, no. Since I started leveling other classes, I cry a little inside each time I see a MRD/WAR use Flash during a DF.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

You know, before the new class was announced this was never a hot issue.

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While I can't say if this has never been a "hot issue" or not, I did point out how many of the cross-class options are absolutely worthless during beta.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Have you actually READ the notes? 5% on ALL OTHER classes, 20% when a MONK uses it.

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Given that his point is about cross class abilities, Monk's trait boost doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Nope. Try telling a Warrior to cast Protect. See what he thinks.
See above.

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Warrior's not a class, but a job. I can cast Protect and Stoneskin as MRD if I wanted to. That said, even if I could cast it, I'd look at the healer and ask why the hell they aren't.

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Originally Posted by Enepttastic

I cry a little inside each time I see a MRD/WAR use Flash during a DF.

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Why? flash uses mp, overpower tp, if you are low on one use the other.

Seems like a good idea to me.

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Originally Posted by Enepttastic

Warrior's not a class, but a job. I can cast Protect and Stoneskin as MRD if I wanted to. That said, even if I could cast it, I'd look at the healer and ask why the hell they aren't.

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So you go into Coil/Coil 2 as a Marauder? Nice.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

Why? flash uses mp, overpower tp, if you are low on one use the other.

Seems like a good idea to me.

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If you're low on TP and still have aggro issues, something's gone horrifically wrong. Either you're not aiming Overpower right, over using it, or running headlong into another pull with zilch TP.

A standard multi-mob pull as a WAR should be as such:

1. Mark Kill Order
2. Run to mobs
3. Tomahawk #1 (Optional)
4. Run past mobs
5. Turn around
6. Overpower x2
7. Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder -> Butcher's Block #1
8. HS -> SS #2 -> BB #3

Instead I tend to see someone run in and start flashing/OPing without aiming. Decent amount of tanks fail to bother switching targets as well then wonder why the healer or a DPS start to pull aggro thanks to AoEs.

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Originally Posted by Lanceton

cross-class skills were supposed to enable character customization (attributes, elemental resistance too for that matter)
however that's not the direction current dev team is heading i.e. no character customization.

they're not going to change anything unless unless the whole forum cries for it, and even if it does, this level of change will have to wait until at least the expansion

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True, although I'd have said that it's never been the dev's intentions. Alas, even if the forums cry for a change, it's not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

So you go into Coil/Coil 2 as a Marauder? Nice.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtNHuqHWefU

cross-class skills were supposed to enable character customization (attributes, elemental resistance too for that matter)
however that's not the direction current dev team is heading i.e. no character customization.

they're not going to change anything unless unless the whole forum cries for it, and even if it does, this level of change will have to wait until at least the expansion

I think the class system is in many ways, leftover from 1.0 and never really resolved into its own fun/interesting system.

The original intent was that players would level any of the various skills and combine abilities from them to create his/her own job. Want to be a paladin? Level up sword, shield, and conjury and then pick the abilities you wish to have. The class names we have now were simply labels for those skills. The problem was that the 1.0 system, while flexible, resulted in all players playing very much the same way. You were either a DPS or a healer and groups resorted to tank/spanking everything. Other problems include abilities like crowd control and debuffs having negligible impact resulting in most players going for high dps abilities. And lastly, the original system lacked iconic ties to iconic FF jobs/classes.

I do wish the armory/class/job system gets a bit more flavor in the future. While the 2.0 design is more fun as a whole, it lacks even the flavor that FFXI has through the subjobbing system.

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Originally Posted by Enepttastic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtNHuqHWefU

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Indeed. Too bad sarcasm doesn't have a recognizable que. I hate when that happens.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Indeed. Too bad sarcasm doesn't have a recognizable que. I hate when that happens.

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I know, it's almost as annoying as someone pretending what they said was actually sarcastic.

I think some people are very confused about what I am saying. Some people get it but not everyone. I gave a list of EVERY Cross class. Not just the bad ones. I KNOW Raging strikes is good. I KNOW Mantra is good for MONKS!!! That is not the point. I am talking about the CROSS CLASS VERSIONS THAT ARE IN COLOR!!!

The point is we have a whole system that is NOT being used. If it was being used correctly there would be a LOT more variety in the game.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

I think some people are very confused about what I am saying. Some people get it but not everyone. I gave a list of EVERY Cross class. Not just the bad ones. I KNOW Raging strikes is good. I KNOW Mantra is good for MONKS!!! That is not the point. I am talking about the CROSS CLASS VERSIONS THAT ARE IN COLOR!!!

The point is we have a whole system that is NOT being used. If it was being used correctly there would be a LOT more variety in the game.

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Yep. Sadly I actually made a similar point(I think, may have gotten fed up with the forums by then and not bothered to post it) during beta. Truth is, the situation is even worse than you portray it because there's several times where Jobs get royally screwed on their CC options. It's not even merely situations where there's an "optimal" set but hell, some jobs literally have a redundant skill as one of the CC options(MRD/PLD with Skull Sunder/Savage Blade and SCH/WHM with Physick/Cure for instance).

Truth be told, this game's design leans more into a single-class per character MMO mindset than it does in regards to taking advantage of the cross-class/class change features.

OP,

In 1.0 it was important to play on your class when solo but Jobs were more oriented to party play.

It still applies in 2.0, however, most overworld mobs are extremely chump meat, so there's not even a reason to jump back to class for solo play most the time.

Also, back before launch, Yoshi-P ALREADY stated that Jobs are meant to be better than classes in every way. You cannot compare classes in this game to the original jobs in XI. Because in XI all jobs were on the same level playing field where classes are below jobs. And I'm pretty sure if Yoshi-P had his way and he was really starting this game from scratch, he'd remove classes and have jobs only.

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Originally Posted by Valmar

the OP's question is more along the lines of FFXI where the Basic Jobs where still Viable at end game, along with the Advanced Jobs.

Where in FFXIV once you unlock a Job, the class petty much become obsolete.

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This is exactly what me and Kat_Manx were discussing earlier in another thread. Classes have 0 use once you hit lvl 30. We were wondering if SE would one day make them a unique and viable option to play post 50. But instead the mass majority just misunderstood our posts and ridiculed the thread. Which is fine... but in reality all we'd like to see is some more versatility and options for playable classes, especially after seeing rogue/ninja. Rogue's gear in the video and its actions/weapons make it appear radically different from ninja which gains ninjutsu and hand gestures... you dont see those hand gestures on rogue really, which made me wonder if Rogue would have been its own job, but apparently its not (which is a bummer) cuz it looked hawt :P

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Originally Posted by Vespar

Snip

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That depends on the class, some class may be fine but for exemple, dragoons have it tough from 30 to ilvl60 due to the fact that you loose the possibility to heal yourself.
Which means than when you play alone you are sometime forced to stack loads of potions and to kite waiting for the 1min cool down to finish.. Believe me, it's a pain.
Of course it also depends on how you play and I never actually reverted back to LNC since these situation were still kinda rare (since you're kind of a living rocket that blast through most of this world and the fact that there is no real difficulty in mobs besides the fact that you can't heal yourself).

So yeah OP, like I said earlier, classes become somewhat obsolete when you ding lv30 which is indeed too bad since it kinda breaks the freedom we used to have, but at least now we all have a different role and can switch whenever we want before going into battle.

As for the rogue/ninja, yeah... That is kind of annoying me, it's not like monk or dragoon nor whitemage who gets new skills that specialize them, ninja completely changes your gameplay once you get it, or at least it looks like it does with the hand gesture thing, I don't know how they'll use it but going from poison and quick movement to magic simon game will feel weird... Oh wait you're free to pick the order of gesture so it's not really simon game ^^'''

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

So you go into Coil/Coil 2 as a Marauder? Nice.

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I know you meant that as a joke, but Marauder is arguably the class that benefits the most from remaining jobless. If you're going into any 8-man with two tanks but can't just be a DPS for whatever reason (eg it's just the two of you using Duty Finder, you don't have a level 50 DPS), and it's a duty where you only need one actual tank which your buddy's doing? Go ahead and Marauder. You wouldn't be using Defiance anyway, and access to Raging Strikes, Blood For Blood, and probably other tools I'm not recalling offhand will likely make you more effectve as a damage dealer.

Either way, until we have a lot more cross-class skills, Jobs will be superior to classes in most cases, as that's the major advantage - access to more crossclass skills. When most classes only lose one or two they'd actually use in favour of 5 awesome Job skills... welp.

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Originally Posted by Enepttastic

Ahahahahaha, no. Since I started leveling other classes, I cry a little inside each time I see a MRD/WAR use Flash during a DF.

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I use Flash when I'm under Pacification. Why? Because there's nothing else to be doing and it helps keep aggro more. It's a good skill.

It seems really weird to have a system in the game that you dont plan to use. I really wish they wold do something about it. If not making classes viable than at least fix some of the POINTLESS cross class skills. No one will EVER EVER EVER want Ruin or the 2 tanking combo skills.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

It seems really weird to have a system in the game that you dont plan to use. I really wish they wold do something about it. If not making classes viable than at least fix some of the POINTLESS cross class skills. No one will EVER EVER EVER want Ruin or the 2 tanking combo skills.

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As an amusing aside, I have used the tank combo skills for a very good reason before. When I was levelling Lancer, I had to deal with tanks regularly dropping from low-level dungeons - so I would just slap one of those two skills on, and we would three-man the dungeon with me as tank, holding aggro via that skill. On a lot of dungeons, it actually worked (after about the level 30 content it starts getting tough though, but I was able to do it with relatively little pain in Haukke Manor).

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

I use Flash when I'm under Pacification. Why? Because there's nothing else to be doing and it helps keep aggro more. It's a good skill.

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Not to mention... the 'overpower all the things' mrd/war will ask you to stop every once in awhile.. because TP.


Anyways... watch ACN come back as Super DOT dps because of the new dps cross class abilities from ROG.

It's one thing to be creative... it's another to be just sheer OP.

Not only do players lose stats by being a class. They also lose the 5 (most of the time) really good job skills they could ahve had. I dont think you can make anything really OP with a class even if the skills were better.

We giving up on this? No info from the devs? Sad panda is sad.

Well thing is, I don't think anyone asked this question before, if someone did, I assume it didn't get to the dev since we don't have info about this :/

Actually this discussion has come up several times but it's always met with scores of people asking, "Why? Jobs are so much better there's no point!" I disagree, of course, as I remember 1.0 enough to know that classes were easily able to hold their own next to Jobs. Still are, but people have this notion that classes are 'tossed aside and forgotten' at 30, like level 31-50 are nothing but Job ability territory. I, for one, would love to see classes given enough of some manner of buff beyond their broad multi-classing to make them viable alongside Jobs again. One way, which is what they did in 1.0, could be to make class AF and Relics similar to how darklight, high-level crafted and Garlean weapons were in 1.0.