So, now Monk/Dragoon have to compete with yet another class?

In terms of slaying drops potentially? Dexterity is billed as a range exclusive stat so far so why is it fair that now Monk and Dragoon have to compete even further for slaying accessory drops? The way the loot tables work need to change as they add more jobs.

We really dont have enough info to jump the gun on this one yet.

NIN would probably need a separate set of gear maybe, especially with the ninjutsu which is magic.

don't think they have the same main stats I am Alost 99% sure they will be dex stats.

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Originally Posted by neonexsis

don't think they have the same main stats I am Alost 99% sure they will be dex stats.

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I also go by this.

Because I think Rogue will become Musketeer (that's why they didn't call them Thiefes?)

To build on them using DEX as a stat, it'd be more fitting since BRD is the only job in the game that has no loot competition.

Only if they use STR and only if you take all 3 melee jobs in a dungeon together ^^

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Originally Posted by Cynric

We really dont have enough info to jump the gun on this one yet.

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And that will ever stop people jumping to conclusions anyways? XD

You know, there's already a plethora of things worth complaining about in the game, WHY anyone would begin to do so based on assumptions is beyond me...

I doubt that they will be using dex as the main stat as it affects ranged damage. It would be pointless imo. There is already a stat that scales properly to include the estimated auto attack damage from melee and that's str. I doubt SE would go out of their way to make that change if they didn't have to. My guess is that Nin will be folded into to the mnk gear set much in the way smn/blm share coil/sold gear.

thf was Dex based in XI so if you wanna assume, i would start there

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

And that will ever stop people jumping to conclusions anyways? XD

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True facts, but might as well start with the truth of how much we know before the crazed speculating starts xD

Could be a tank slot for all we know.

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Originally Posted by Seif

Could be a tank slot for all we know.

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we at least know the role is dps.

but int? str? dex? new stat? we dunno this stuff.

Also@Omega : The game mechanics tell Bard to use dex in its damage formula but that has nothing to do with it being ranged. Their attacks just have further range than melee attacks do. They changed Second Wind from int to str. Changing what stat damage comes from in the damage formula isn't as difficult as you think.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

Also@Omega : The game mechanics tell Bard to use dex in its damage formula but that has nothing to do with it being ranged. Their attacks just have further range than melee attacks do. They changed Second Wind from int to str. Changing what stat damage comes from in the damage formula isn't as difficult as you think.

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I can understand that, but why would they? Why would they create a melee class and decide to change up their range stat to fit it when str is already applicable? At that point, they might as well merge the two because any reason to have a difference would be shattered.

So much jumping on gaming forums when new stuff is announced.

http://lsatmax.com/wp-content/upload...usions_mat.jpg

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Originally Posted by neonexsis

don't think they have the same main stats I am Alost 99% sure they will be dex stats.

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I don't know how you could be 99% sure of anything. They just announced Ninja in a 1 minute long animation video. The dex stat has a tooltip of "Affects physical ranged damage, as well as parry and block rates." Not saying they couldn't change the way the stat works or they couldn't classify ninja as ranged damage (which just wouldn't make sense), but being 99% sure means you have some knowledge that no one else has.

In the short term, having them use dex would alleviate some stress on gear competition, I suppose. In reality you aren't going to bring more than 2 melee in most fights anyways so it's the same amount of competition. But in the long term, it would just make new classes convoluted. They would be giving a class a main stat based purely on whim rather than what the stats are designed for.

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Originally Posted by SirSaber

I also go by this.

Because I think Rogue will become Musketeer (that's why they didn't call them Thiefes?)

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Musketeer is a class. They already have a guild established in Limsa so they won't be coming from Rogue. The question is what job branches off Musketeer.

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

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Thats the thing though. There is nothing to change at all. Its just a statistical value that tells the damage where to come from. They could make the damage based on HP and all they would have to do is put HP into the damage value instead of whatever else.

this is partly why our gear system is boring for some. all they do is give you statistical values that are mirrored across all classes and for balance sake the numbers vary based on class but if you wanted to get technical. they all really do the same thing, the actual formulas for blocking damage etc. are what tell the game where to pull the numbers from.

but why would they? i dunno, to be different? to balance drops out? we don't even know what type of dps ninja runs on yet so we can't make this assessment yet.

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Originally Posted by Shigaru

To build on them using DEX as a stat, it'd be more fitting since BRD is the only job in the game that has no loot competition.

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It'd make more sense to release a class that actually utilizes the Dex stat rather than trying to fit Ninja into that category.

I have zero doubt that Rogue will be DEX based. Ninja, on the other hand, is up in the air. I think it'll depend on how involved ninjutsu/mudra is with stats. Magic based and influenced from those stats? e.g. INT/MND. We'll find out as time goes on.

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Originally Posted by Ryans

It'd make more sense to release a class that actually utilizes the Dex stat rather than trying to fit Ninja into that category.

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It makes sense though lore-wise. A ninja does not rely on brute strength, rather, he focuses on precision blows to vital spots on the body. Thus, dexterity is more important than strength.

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Originally Posted by Velox

It makes sense though lore-wise. A ninja does not rely on brute strength, rather, he focuses on precision blows to vital spots on the body. Thus, dexterity is more important than strength.

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We have absolutely no lore to suggest this about the FFXIV version of Nin. If anything, the official job description just talks about the manipulation of energy through hand signs. That's pretty much all we have to go on. Some incarnations of Ninjas in games are focused on vital points, but we have nothing to suggest that Nin is.

Dex increase ranged-wep damage, and block/parry rate...how is this going to help Ninja, DPS? cause....they have dual-daggers...not ranged wep.
It's obviously going to be STR based, and possibly compete with DRG and MNK, for slaying accessories...but you won't be taking all 3 jobs into 1 run anyway? either because you dont want to, or because they dont want to.
They are going to add a gun job, which will be dex based, and compete with BRD.
Once they add new tank/healer, those will be *competing* with war/pld, and whm/sch, also...unless they add new sets of gear for new jobs...which i doubt...it would just add 11 new items/job to coil loot, and decrease the chance anyone gets what they are looking for.
Although it's kinda fits into the whole thing with *lv up ACN, and get lv50 SCH/SMN for free* so gear up MNK, and you get gear for NIN, for free, too. But it would be really boring to gear up 10+ jobs, separately

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Originally Posted by Velox

It makes sense though lore-wise. A ninja does not rely on brute strength, rather, he focuses on precision blows to vital spots on the body. Thus, dexterity is more important than strength.

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But that's not how DEX works. DEX, very clearly, is a stat that boosts ranged physical damage. While it may make sense thematically, it does not work mechanically. STR is the stat for physical melee damage, and the absolute easiest method of assigning gear to the Rogue/Ninja would be to give it the same gear Pugilist/Monk gets.

So Monks suddenly have to share their loot with another job, big deal. Tanks, healers, and casters have had to deal with it this whole time, Bards will have to deal with it when Musketeer gets released, and Dragoons will have to deal with it as soon as we get another heavy-armor melee DPS class.

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Originally Posted by Nahara

But that's not how DEX works. DEX, very clearly, is a stat that boosts ranged physical damage. While it may make sense thematically, it does not work mechanically. STR is the stat for physical melee damage, and the absolute easiest method of assigning gear to the Rogue/Ninja would be to give it the same gear Pugilist/Monk gets.

So Monks suddenly have to share their loot with another job, big deal. Tanks, healers, and casters have had to deal with it this whole time, Bards will have to deal with it when Musketeer gets released, and Dragoons will have to deal with it as soon as we get another heavy-armor melee DPS class.

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actually mechanically it's just a number with 3 letters next to it.

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Originally Posted by Nahara

Dragoons will have to deal with it as soon as we get another heavy-armor melee DPS class.

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Like Samurai ? ^^

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Originally Posted by Nahara

But that's not how DEX works. DEX, very clearly, is a stat that boosts ranged physical damage. While it may make sense thematically, it does not work mechanically. STR is the stat for physical melee damage, and the absolute easiest method of assigning gear to the Rogue/Ninja would be to give it the same gear Pugilist/Monk gets.

So Monks suddenly have to share their loot with another job, big deal. Tanks, healers, and casters have had to deal with it this whole time, Bards will have to deal with it when Musketeer gets released, and Dragoons will have to deal with it as soon as we get another heavy-armor melee DPS class.

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Exactly this. People are going by the classic definition of dexterity and not the FFXIV definition of it. If you are going to make predictions on things we have very little knowledge on, you could at least use the knowledge we do have such as the characteristics of stats.

As for gear, Monk would have to compete with three jobs for accessories is the point. But as I said before it's not much of one because you aren't going to bring 3 melee into much of anything.

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Originally Posted by SirSaber

I also go by this.

Because I think Rogue will become Musketeer (that's why they didn't call them Thiefes?)

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Musketeer would be class, There is already a guild for them ingame since 1.0 launch.

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Originally Posted by Nahara

But that's not how DEX works. DEX, very clearly, is a stat that boosts ranged physical damage. While it may make sense thematically, it does not work mechanically. STR is the stat for physical melee damage, and the absolute easiest method of assigning gear to the Rogue/Ninja would be to give it the same gear Pugilist/Monk gets.

So Monks suddenly have to share their loot with another job, big deal. Tanks, healers, and casters have had to deal with it this whole time, Bards will have to deal with it when Musketeer gets released, and Dragoons will have to deal with it as soon as we get another heavy-armor melee DPS class.

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This is how it will be.

Jesus f Christ if anyone had any idea about the game mechanics in question this thread wouldn't even need to exist. Does anyone in the dam game even read a tooltip??? Or is jumping to conclusions standard around here.

Hmm although the tooltip of DEX says ranged damage, whats not to say the tooltip on NIN skills will say "potency based on DEX" or something like that? Anything and everything is ofc speculation xD

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Originally Posted by Pomelo

Hmm although the tooltip of DEX says ranged damage, whats not to say the tooltip on NIN skills will say "potency based on DEX" or something like that? Anything and everything is ofc speculation xD

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do you know what dexterity means? it's hand and eye coordination. It would help you increase parry/block rate (which it does in game) and accuracy too probably (it doesn't in-game)
ppl are thinking dex increase your damage, by easier striking vital points, to deal more damage, but in that case accuracy would decide crit rate also. So maybe Ninja skill potency, could be based on accuracy then? -.-
or since they removed elemental wheel for simplicity sake, they could just base Ninja off Str, like all other melee-wep-jobs...cause you know...the more force you put into a stab/slash, the more damage you can inflict.
try to pierce a rock, with dexterity, and see how that compares to using str.
realistically speaking, bow damage would be unaffected by dex. but if you made a powerful bow, you'd need str, to pull it fully. but then all physical jobs would compete over same gear, which would suck, unless you made all gear, job specific...then there would be 10+ gear sets dropping from coil, and that would be annoying to everyone.
Dex based ranged dps, is just an old stupid cliche.

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Originally Posted by neonexsis

don't think they have the same main stats I am Alost 99% sure they will be dex stats.

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Did noone think of the Possibility of SE adding AGI back into the Game? Which could fit for Rogue and Ninja, without messing with the other Stats.

Nin will use dex /endthread

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Originally Posted by neizero

Nin will use dex /endthread

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Based on what exactly?

Not sure why folks are wailing about sharing drops with RGE/NIN. It's all but written in the stars that Musketeer will be coming eventually, and that will almost certainly be a ranged DEX class competing for drops against ARC/BRD. If SE decides to bend the rules to the point of breaking to force RGE/NIN to use DEX instead of STR for its moves, that just means that MSK and ARC are going to have to share with RGE instead of PGL and LNC sharing with RGE. Someone's gonna have to share. :P

Regardless, I find the idea of a melee job using DEX as their main stat to be highly unliikely. SE took great pains in simplifying the stat system for FFXIV. In FFXI, the stats had all kinds of crazy hidden effects that were rarely explained in-game; you pretty much had to be a FFXI guru to know, for example, that VIT boosted the potency of Cure spells (not as much as MND or Healling Skill, but still there). In FFXIV, every stat has a very small pool of effects, and those effects are clearly printed on the tooltip for that stat.

For SE to turn around and make RGE/NIN a DEX job would throw that simplicity out the window.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Did noone think of the Possibility of SE adding AGI back into the Game? Which could fit for Rogue and Ninja, without messing with the other Stats.

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Agility is a synonym for Dexterity. They both mean the same thing. Unless you are meaning something non-standard for AGI it would be kind of repetitive and pointless to add it in.

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

Agility is a synonym for Dexterity. They both mean the same thing. Unless you are meaning something non-standard for AGI it would be kind of repetitive and pointless to add it in.

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You did not play XI or early XIV, didnt you? Both had Dex AND Agi. 2 Different things in the universe of FF.

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Originally Posted by Nero

You did not play XI or early XIV, didnt you? Both had Dex AND Agi. 2 Different things in the universe of FF.

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I regret not playing XI, and waited on XIV till recently after the bad launch XIV had with 1.0. Still doesn't make having them logical, they're the same thing. I wonder if the past history of it is some type of translation issue.

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Originally Posted by neizero

Nin will use dex /endthread

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They will use STR, Dex only boosts ranged attacks, althought they might change it so that Nin would use Dex too, it would make Fuma gear unavailable to Nin which would be stupid, and MNK gear looks closer to what a Nin would wear so it will be the same gears as monks ( Gunner would then use the same as BRD if they are released )

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Originally Posted by Kerberon

Still doesn't make having them logical, they're the same thing.

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In FFXI canon they're not the same thing, that's the issue. Agility is to Vitality what Dexterity is to Strength. The former two stats bolster Evasion/Defense whereas the latter two buff Ranged Damage/Melee Damage respectively.